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    fschmidt's Avatar
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    Talmudic Judaism

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    http://www.missionislam.com/nwo/talmud.htm

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSy6ENVAJlY

    https://www.amazon.com/Jewish-Histor...dp/B00GGOEL4A/

    Mainstream Judaism is Talmudic Judaism today. Talmudic Judaism is fundamentally parasitic and should not be tolerated in a moral community. Only Karaite Judaism is okay.

    What is the final solution? Require everyone in your community to periodically eat meat and milk together. For example, cheeseburgers or shawarma with yogurt sauce. This will eliminate Talmudic Judaism which prohibits this, but won't affect Karaite Judaism or other followers of the Old Testament.


    Please note that I am ethnically jewish and attended Orthodox synagogue, so I can personally confirm that the above links are accurate. I am posting this because, based on my experience at my local mosque, I think Muslims are naive when it comes to dealing with Judaism.

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    Re: Talmudic Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by fschmidt View Post
    http://www.missionislam.com/nwo/talmud.htm

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSy6ENVAJlY

    https://www.amazon.com/Jewish-Histor...dp/B00GGOEL4A/

    Mainstream Judaism is Talmudic Judaism today. Talmudic Judaism is fundamentally parasitic and should not be tolerated in a moral community. Only Karaite Judaism is okay.

    What is the final solution? Require everyone in your community to periodically eat meat and milk together. For example, cheeseburgers or shawarma with yogurt sauce. This will eliminate Talmudic Judaism which prohibits this, but won't affect Karaite Judaism or other followers of the Old Testament.


    Please note that I am ethnically jewish and attended Orthodox synagogue, so I can personally confirm that the above links are accurate. I am posting this because, based on my experience at my local mosque, I think Muslims are naive when it comes to dealing with Judaism.
    I thought mainstream Judaism was very lefty liberal and feminist and not of the Talmud at all. Even in Israel it is pro feminist and homosexuals. Modern Jews attack Islam because Muhammad (PBUH) married a girl of six. But that is not even an issue in the Talmud or Torah as many Jews married girls. So why do modern Jews attack Islam with no foundation at all? Why do they live by the modern kaffir pop culture which they create and promote degeneracy? Are you proud of this or ashamed?

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    fschmidt's Avatar
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    Re: Talmudic Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I thought mainstream Judaism was very lefty liberal and feminist and not of the Talmud at all. Even in Israel it is pro feminist and homosexuals. Modern Jews attack Islam because Muhammad (PBUH) married a girl of six. But that is not even an issue in the Talmud or Torah as many Jews married girls. So why do modern Jews attack Islam with no foundation at all? Why do they live by the modern kaffir pop culture which they create and promote degeneracy? Are you proud of this or ashamed?
    First of all, I don't feel pride or shame for my race because I don't care about race. Judaism is not something that I identify with.

    The relationship between Talmudic Judaism and Liberal Judaism is complicated. Liberal jews know nothing of the Talmud but still inherit some of its culture. This includes the ability to debate and an acceptance of hypocrisy. But as liberals, they are against all traditional cultures including both Islam and Orthodox Judaism. Liberalism normally isn't a problem because God takes care of it naturally by reducing their birth rate. I support all liberals becoming trans-gendered freaks because that means that they won't reproduce. The problem is that Judaism prevents this natural solution to liberalism as I explained here:

    http://www.mikraite.org/The-Judaist-Problem-tp1570.html

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    Re: Talmudic Judaism

    The Talmud is a collection of writings from Rabbis through the centuries. It is not a revealed scripture like the Torah or the Psalms of David. It is full of hate towards the Gentiles and it says disparaging things about Jesus and his mother. The Talmud was the foundation of the rise of Zionism, which is a racist political ideology. It is the Askenazi pseudo jews that descended from Khazaria in Southern Russia that have created Zionism. It is those who duped the world into thinking they are the Semitic Jews descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It is those who forcefully took over Palestine. It is those who have taken over the banking industry, Hollywood, mass media and are influential behind the scenes in governments around the world. It is those who are the allies of Shaytan. It is those whom Jesus a.s. will come back for to destroy, them and their false Messiah.

    "I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." Revelation 2:9

    And Allah Knows Best
    Last edited by Misbah-Abd; 03-03-2018 at 01:34 AM.
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    Talmudic Judaism

    "When a person sees the road as too long, he weakens in his walk." - Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah

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    Re: Talmudic Judaism

    Salaam

    In the past I wouldn't of believed this, but looking into it, troubling questions do arise. For instance I didn't realise their loathing of Christianity and Jesus (pbuh). Contrast with the relations between Jews and Muslims which seemed to be better until relatively recently.

    I managed to get this book. Jewish Revolutionary Spirit Written from a traditionalist Catholic perspective. An absorbing read.



    Blurb on the back

    Going beyond merely political explanations for Jewish revolutionary movements, E Michael Jones latest book delves into the theological substratum of a history that has too often been ignored or distorted. This controversial and timely book sees to refocus the ecumenical debate, help us understand the modern world, and perhaps most of all, tell us something about who we are.

    Some reviews

    … to the mortification of decent Jews like myself, Jews are often on the vanguard when it comes to trashing Christian mores and human dignity, and creating dysfunction whether its undermining gender and marriage or peddling promiscuity, pornography or abortion. … Organized Jewry has sought to portray man as inhabiting a mechanistic universe devoid of inherent design and meaning. In this view, God is an impotent fool who neglects His creation, and Christianity is fogbound superstition. … Organized Jewry has used our idealism to deceive us with Socialism, Communism and Zionism. But to warn Jews of this deceit now constitutes ‘anti-Semitism.’ Surely, Jewish leaders who start wars are the real anti-Semites. They create anti-Semitism to keep ordinary Jews in line. … Jones is the foremost scholar of our time and predicament. This is because he studies the masterful Masonic-Jewish takeover of Western civilization now almost complete. … For a complete history of the New World Order from its inception over 2000 years ago, I recommend The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit.” Henry Makow, Ph.D.

    “What is the thesis that has gotten Jones in all this hot water? He says that throughout the past two thousand years, whenever there has been a major movement opposed to the Catholic Church, the Jews have tended to side with those movements, whether religious, social or political. … Now the question: why should this thesis be considered anti-Semitic? The answer: I have no idea. Are Jones’ critics claiming that the Jews have always agreed with the Catholic Church? … Jones makes a case that the Church has had to defend itself on more than one occasion from revolutionary movements in which the Jews played a part, small or large, and the Jews consequently faced the resentment of Christians afterwards. … But the really hot stuff is his discussion of the neo-conservatives. Eyebrows will go up. However, here and throughout the book, his research and analysis is comprehensive and calm. The veins never bulge from Jones’ neck; if there is Jew hatred here, it is immensely cunning. I would hope that Jones’ critics would give him a fair reading rather than continuing to arrange to have his public appearances cancelled. They’re not helping their own case – whatever that case is. It’s really hopeless when anyone who tries to discuss the Jews is instantly accused of being anti-Semitic if his conclusions point out any Jewish misbehavior.” Bradley Rothstein, Gilbert Magazine.

    Jones shows how the cultural war that has been going on for a little more than forty years between Catholics and Jews has been characterised by a long string of victories for the Jewish side. He points out that the Jews with whom the liberal Catholic prelates and intellectuals engage in 'dialogue,' are not creatures of the Torah,which is the word of God, but of the Talmud, which is the rabbinical system put in place in later times to, among other things, coerce Jews from converting to Christianity. Professor David O'Connell.

    I don't know what to make of it and naive as I may be I don't want it to lead to mindless prejudice and misunderstandings. Being a minority in a society that doesn't like you very much can make you behave in certain ways.

    Ill need to think on this.
    Last edited by Junon; 03-03-2018 at 02:09 PM.

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    Karl's Avatar
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    Re: Talmudic Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by fschmidt View Post
    First of all, I don't feel pride or shame for my race because I don't care about race. Judaism is not something that I identify with.

    The relationship between Talmudic Judaism and Liberal Judaism is complicated. Liberal jews know nothing of the Talmud but still inherit some of its culture. This includes the ability to debate and an acceptance of hypocrisy. But as liberals, they are against all traditional cultures including both Islam and Orthodox Judaism. Liberalism normally isn't a problem because God takes care of it naturally by reducing their birth rate. I support all liberals becoming trans-gendered freaks because that means that they won't reproduce. The problem is that Judaism prevents this natural solution to liberalism as I explained here:

    http://www.mikraite.org/The-Judaist-Problem-tp1570.html
    Ok, but not caring about race is a liberal concept, as liberals believe race does not even exist but is instead a "social construct" (which is of course totally insane and driven by a malicious political agenda rather than logic). The liberals are working on getting rid of gender as well. Where as non liberals/cultural Marxists DO care about race and heritage and homeland and are of course opposed to the genetic contamination of race mixing.

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    fschmidt's Avatar
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    Re: Talmudic Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Ok, but not caring about race is a liberal concept, as liberals believe race does not even exist but is instead a "social construct" (which is of course totally insane and driven by a malicious political agenda rather than logic). The liberals are working on getting rid of gender as well. Where as non liberals/cultural Marxists DO care about race and heritage and homeland and are of course opposed to the genetic contamination of race mixing.
    Not caring about race is also an Islamic concept. In the Quran, people are judged by their religion, not by their race. I agree with the Quran.

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    Re: Talmudic Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by fschmidt View Post
    Not caring about race is also an Islamic concept. In the Quran, people are judged by their religion, not by their race. I agree with the Quran.
    Quote Originally Posted by fschmidt View Post
    Not caring about race is also an Islamic concept. In the Quran, people are judged by their religion, not by their race. I agree with the Quran.
    To care is not necessarily to judge. There is a passage that deals with kith and kin and they should be cared about. It also says that the Jews are a cursed race, this maybe because of their persecution and betrayal of Isa (PBUH) or Jesus. I wouldn't worry about it too much as curses can be lifted.
    I don't judge people by their religion, I like variety in all things.

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    Misbah-Abd's Avatar
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    Re: Talmudic Judaism

    Worry much about curses and seeking knowledge and guidance to lift it. Don't worry about them is bad, bad advice.
    Talmudic Judaism

    "When a person sees the road as too long, he weakens in his walk." - Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah

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    Re: Talmudic Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    To care is not necessarily to judge. There is a passage that deals with kith and kin and they should be cared about. It also says that the Jews are a cursed race, this maybe because of their persecution and betrayal of Isa (PBUH) or Jesus. I wouldn't worry about it too much as curses can be lifted.
    I don't judge people by their religion, I like variety in all things.
    The Quran doesnt say the Jews were cursed - it criticizes certain people in History in the tribe of Israel as they were the early ummah.

    Your history, culture and differnet ethic groups are a sign of God. The Quran says

    " O you men! surely We have created you of a male and a female, and made you tribes and families that you may know each other; surely the most honorable of you with Allah is the one among you most careful (of his duty); surely Allah is Knowing, Aware." - 49.13

    However racism, bigotry and supremacy has no place in Islam as the prophet pbuh said in the last sermon (every Muslim should read)

    ""There is no superiority for an Arab over a non-Arab, nor for a non-Arab over an Arab. Neither is the white superior over the black, nor is the black superior over the white -- except by piety." - Prophet Muhammad pbuh last sermon.

    Its your Iman (faith) akhlaq (character) and your actions (Amal) that matter not who you are although that is a sign of God.
    Last edited by Zafran; 03-04-2018 at 02:29 AM.
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    Talmudic Judaism

    Do you think the pious don't sin?

    They merely:
    Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
    Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
    Took ownership of it and don't justify it
    And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim

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    Re: Talmudic Judaism

    Most of these quotes are baloney or taken out of context. You can get a balanced perspective on all these allegedly scandalous Talmudic quotes at the following site: http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/

    The Real Truth About The Talmud
    Refuting the accusations that the Talmud is racist....

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    fschmidt's Avatar
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    Re: Talmudic Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses613 View Post
    Most of these quotes are baloney or taken out of context. You can get a balanced perspective on all these allegedly scandalous Talmudic quotes at the following site: http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/
    My Hebrew isn't good enough to be able to judge the Talmud for myself. But the site you linked doesn't seem very convincing. Of the 3 sources I linked to, 2 are from jews who know Hebrew well. What motive would they have to lie about the Talmud? The motive of someone defending the Talmud to lie is obvious.

    I attended my local Orthodox synagogue and I was taught that jews have both an animal soul and a divine soul, while non-jews only have an animal soul. All discussion about moral obligations were to other jews. Non-jews are basically considered irrelevant.

    After having studied talmudic judaism, I find it to be evil and I feel a moral obligation to warn others of the dangers of talmudic judaism. In America we see that the main activities of jewish groups are to destroy morality and destroy free speech. There seems to be nothing that talmudic judaism hates more than free speech, probably because this threatens their lies.

    I urge you to reconsider your religion. Karaite Judaism is a perfectly moral religion. So is Islam and traditional Christianity. At the very least please read the book I linked to by Israel Shahak.
    Last edited by fschmidt; 03-04-2018 at 09:15 AM.
    Talmudic Judaism


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    Re: Talmudic Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by Zafran View Post
    The Quran doesnt say the Jews were cursed - it criticizes certain people in History in the tribe of Israel as they were the early ummah.
    Disbelievers from Bani Israel

    ‘And they say: Our hearts are covered. Nay, Allah has cursed them on account of their disbelief; so little it is that they believe. And when there came to them a Book from Allah verifying that which they have, and aforetime they used to pray for victory against those who disbelieve, but when there came to them (Prophet) that which they did not recognize, they disbelieved in him; so Allah’s curse is on the unbelievers.’
    (Surah Baqarah, 2: 88-89)


    ‘But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others).’
    (Surah Maidah, 5:13)


    ‘Say: Shall I inform you of (him who is) worse than this in retribution from Allah? (Worse is he) whom Allah has cursed and brought His wrath upon, and of whom He made apes and swine, and he who served the Shaitan; these are worse in place and more erring from the straight path.’
    (Surah Maidah, 5:60)


    ‘Those who disbelieved from among the children of Israel were cursed by the tongue of Dawood and Isa, son of Marium; this was because they disobeyed and used to exceed the limit.’
    (Surah Maidah, 5:78)


    ‘And they are overtaken by curse in this (world), and on the resurrection day, evil the gift which shall be given.’

    (Surah Hud, 11:9
    9)

    ‘And We caused a curse to follow them in this world, and on the day of resurrection they shall be of those made to appear hideous"

    s.’
    1 | Likes Desert liked this post
    Talmudic Judaism

    "When a person sees the road as too long, he weakens in his walk." - Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah

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    Re: Talmudic Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by Misbah-Abd View Post
    Disbelievers from Bani Israel

    ‘And they say: Our hearts are covered. Nay, Allah has cursed them on account of their disbelief; so little it is that they believe. And when there came to them a Book from Allah verifying that which they have, and aforetime they used to pray for victory against those who disbelieve, but when there came to them (Prophet) that which they did not recognize, they disbelieved in him; so Allah’s curse is on the unbelievers.’
    (Surah Baqarah, 2: 88-89)


    ‘But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others).’
    (Surah Maidah, 5:13)


    ‘Say: Shall I inform you of (him who is) worse than this in retribution from Allah? (Worse is he) whom Allah has cursed and brought His wrath upon, and of whom He made apes and swine, and he who served the Shaitan; these are worse in place and more erring from the straight path.’
    (Surah Maidah, 5:60)


    ‘Those who disbelieved from among the children of Israel were cursed by the tongue of Dawood and Isa, son of Marium; this was because they disobeyed and used to exceed the limit.’
    (Surah Maidah, 5:78)


    ‘And they are overtaken by curse in this (world), and on the resurrection day, evil the gift which shall be given.’

    (Surah Hud, 11:9
    9)

    ‘And We caused a curse to follow them in this world, and on the day of resurrection they shall be of those made to appear hideous"

    s.’
    Indeed some Jews were criticized however......

    "And among the people of Moses is a community which guides by truth and by it establishes justice." - verse - 7:159

    "They are not [all] the same; among the People of the Scripture is a community standing [in obedience], reciting the verses of Allah during periods of the night and prostrating [in prayer]. They believe in Allah and the Last Day, and they enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and hasten to good deeds. And those are among the righteous." verse - 3:113-114


    "And indeed, among the People of the Scripture are those who believe in Allah and what was revealed to you and what was revealed to them, [being] humbly submissive to Allah . They do not exchange the verses of Allah for a small price. Those will have their reward with their Lord. Indeed, Allah is swift in account." 3:199

    so mute point.
    1 | Likes Moses613 liked this post
    Talmudic Judaism

    Do you think the pious don't sin?

    They merely:
    Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
    Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
    Took ownership of it and don't justify it
    And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim

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    umie's Avatar
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    Re: Talmudic Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses613 View Post
    Most of these quotes are baloney or taken out of context. You can get a balanced perspective on all these allegedly scandalous Talmudic quotes at the following site: http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/

    The Real Truth About The Talmud
    Refuting the accusations that the Talmud is racist....
    Quickly scanned through the article but this is not very convincing at all.

    one example:

    Accusation about the Talmud:
    Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews, Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a Gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a Gentile he may keep.
    Minor Tractates. Soferim 15, Rule 10. This is the saying of Rabbi Simon ben Yohai: Tob shebe goyyim harog ("Even the best of the gentiles should all be killed").

    explanation in defence:

    [Exodus 14:5-7 "It was told to the king of Egypt that the people had fled; and the heart of Pharoah and his servants became transformed regarding the people, and they said, 'What is this that we have done that we have sent away Israel from serving us?' He harnessed his chariot and attracted his people with him.] He took six hundred elite chariots [and all the chariots of Egypt, with officers on them all."]
    From whom were the animals that drove the chariots? If you say they were from Egypt, doesn't it say (Exodus 9:6) "and all the livestock of Egypt died [from the fifth plague]"? If you say they were from Pharoah, doesn't it say (Exodus 9:3) "[Moses said to Pharoah]: Behold, the hand of G-d is on your livestock that are in the field"? If you say they were from the Jews, doesn't it say (Exodus 10:26) "And our livestock, as well, will go with us- not a hoof will be left"? Rather from whom were they, from the Egyptians who feared G-d [and were not affected by the plagues]. We now see that the livestock of the G-d-fearers that escaped the plague caused great hardship for the Jews [by being used for chariots to pursue them]. From here R. Shimon [ben Yochai] said: Kill [even] the good among the gentiles.
    From the above teaching we see that R. Shimon ben Yochai was discussing a case of war. The G-d-fearers among the Egyptians allowed their animals to be used in battle against the Jews. Presumably, these people went along with their animals and drove the chariots. We now see that the G-d-fearers, the "good" among the gentiles, were doing battle with the Jews. To this R. Shimon ben Yochai said that, when in battle, do not try to spare the lives of those opposing soldiers who are fine, upstanding people. Kill any enemy soldier, regardless of their character. This contextual approach to understanding R. Shimon ben Yochai's statement is how the post-Talmudic literature has read this statement [see Tosafot, Avodah Zarah 26b sv Velo; Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Avodah Zarah 10:1]. Reading R. Shimon ben Yochai's teaching as a single-sentence imperative to kill all gentiles is simply wrong and is not how Jewish scholars have ever understood it.

    My conclusion about this explanation:
    explanation is pretty weak.
    Let us assume this really was about the incident Jews fleeing from Egypt and the Pharaoh on their heels with his army.
    the question asked is from whom the animals were that drove the chariots since all the live stock of egypt died from the plaque.
    so it asserted that the animals were from the god fearing gentiles.
    first of all, it is not so that the Jews fled out of egypt the next morning that the plague occured. so, the pharaoh could easily have imported those animals from outside Egypt.
    After that plaque, five more plaques happened before Mozes fled out of Egypt, so the Pharaoh had plenty of time to get new livestock.

    second, god fearing gentiles allowing the use of their animals for battle against fellow god fearing people does not sound like god fearing at all.
    third, there are no Jews, God fearing gentiles, and other gentiles. there are only believers and non-believers. If God allowed those people to keep their livestock, than that is because they were believers.

    third, one "assumes" that the god fearing people went along with their animals and drove the charriots. so they not only allowed their animals to be used, they even joined the battle themselves? and then quickly concludes they must be evil. Is that how it works?
    just an assumption is enough to convict someone?

    So for God those God fearing gentiles have earned mercy because they are God fearing...but for Jews they still not are fellow believers. in battle, every enemy needs to be killed, regardless if harmless or not...they deserve no mercy.
    Even war has its rules.

    So, even if this explanation was valid....this everything sounds so ugly...I do not want to have anything to do with.
    It shows that Jews show no mercy to people even God shows his mercy to.
    it shows that an assumption is enough to convict someone.
    It shows that even god fearing people are not considered to be one of them.
    It shows that Jews see everyone as their enemy in battle. even harmless children, women and elderly people.
    they will have no mercy on no one.

    and this is just one of the issues in the article...


    - - - Updated - - -

    accusation:
    The Talmud is Judaism's holiest book (actually a collection of books). Its authority takes precedence over the Old Testament in Judaism. Evidence of this may be found in the Talmud itself, Erubin 21b (Soncino edition): "My son, be more careful in the observance of the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah (Old Testament)."

    Defence:

    It is indeed interesting that anyone should make this claim about the Talmud. While it is certainly not true that Judaism views the Talmud as being holier than the Bible, what if it were true? How does that in any way show that Judaism is wrong?


    conclusion:
    so the Thorah is the divine word dictated to Mozes personally...and the Talmud is just a scripture of some rabbi's (human made) and you are asking "what if the Talmud is holier than the Thorah"? are you serious?
    and then a whole explanation why the accusation is wrong and examples to prove the opposite.
    first, of course the Thorah should be holier than the Talmud...It is God's word against human word.
    second, no explanation where the accusation comes from then at all. How are we supposed to interpret Erubin 21b then?

  20. #16
    fschmidt's Avatar
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    Re: Talmudic Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by umie View Post
    first, of course the Thorah should be holier than the Talmud...It is God's word against human word.
    Actually according to the Talmud, the rabbis have authority over Earth and God doesn't. In the story of Rabbi Eliezer, Rabbi Eliezer calls God to speak in his defense, which God does, and the other rabbis basically tell God to mind his own business.

    https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...Study-Hall.htm

    https://youtu.be/tddCNY6U77Y?t=1320

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    umie's Avatar
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    Re: Talmudic Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by fschmidt View Post
    Actually according to the Talmud, the rabbis have authority over Earth and God doesn't. In the story of Rabbi Eliezer, Rabbi Eliezer calls God to speak in his defense, which God does, and the other rabbis basically tell God to mind his own business.

    https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...Study-Hall.htm

    https://youtu.be/tddCNY6U77Y?t=1320
    What? I did not know that. It is even worse than I thought...
    and why is it that do not write "God", instead, they write "G-d" as if it is a forbidden word.
    Anyone?

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    Misbah-Abd's Avatar
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    Re: Talmudic Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by Zafran View Post
    Indeed some Jews were criticized however......

    "And among the people of Moses is a community which guides by truth and by it establishes justice." - verse - 7:159

    "They are not [all] the same; among the People of the Scripture is a community standing [in obedience], reciting the verses of Allah during periods of the night and prostrating [in prayer]. They believe in Allah and the Last Day, and they enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and hasten to good deeds. And those are among the righteous." verse - 3:113-114


    "And indeed, among the People of the Scripture are those who believe in Allah and what was revealed to you and what was revealed to them, [being] humbly submissive to Allah . They do not exchange the verses of Allah for a small price. Those will have their reward with their Lord. Indeed, Allah is swift in account." 3:199

    so mute point.
    No it's not a mute point. You made a generalized statement that they were not cursed and the Quran confirms that they were. Swallow your stubbornness and omit that you were wrong. Those verses you quoted are about the People of the Book who accepted the Prophet s.a.a.w and his final revelation and embraced Islam.
    Last edited by Misbah-Abd; 03-05-2018 at 11:11 AM.
    Talmudic Judaism

    "When a person sees the road as too long, he weakens in his walk." - Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah

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    Moses613's Avatar
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    Re: Talmudic Judaism

    Hi fschmidt. The synagogue you attended was obviously Chabad. They are super into their mystical teachings about the soul. Most of them don't have much of an idea of what they're talking about, and their teachings are not based on the words of the Talmud, which says literally nothing about an animal soul and a divine soul. These esoteric teachings are very symbolic and have little to nothing to do with real-life relations between Jews and non-Jews.
    Of course there are moral obligations toward non-Jews. For example, here are the words of Maimonides in his seminal codification of (Talmudic) Jewish law:
    Anyone who steals property worth a penny or more transgresses the prohibition: "You shall not steal" (Exodus 20:15). One does not incur the penalty of lashes by breaking this prohibition, since the atonement for stealing is obtained by payment of the principal and the fine; the Torah requires the thief to repay. It makes no difference whether one steals the property of a Jew or a non-Jew, or whether one steals from an adult or from a minor.
    You can verify the quote here https://www.sefaria.org/Mishneh_Tora...h=all&lang2=en at this open-source, bilingual library of Jewish texts.
    I don't know what you're talking about as far as destroying morality. That has nothing to do with Judaism or the Talmud. About 90% of American Jews are non-observant. They wouldn't know what a Talmud was if it hit them in the head. For many, unfortunately, their real religion is liberalism or progressivism. This, again, has nothing to do with the teachings of Judaism.
    As for Shahak, an ignorant hack, he is not a serious scholar and does not deserve further discussion. A serious examination of the entirety of Talmudic literature will provide context to show its peaceful ways and provide the ability to understand the true background and limited scope of "quotes" that are thrown around to "prove" the Talmud is anti-Gentile. This is the same as most Muslims would probably prefer their religious literature be viewed in context rather than me just quoting the hadeeth that says if a Jew is hiding behind a rock you should go there and kill him. Some comments made by individual rabbis were directed at the non-Jews of the time who were persecuting the Jewish people (Muslims, does this sound like something you've heard about any passages in Quran or hadeeth?).
    Karaite "Judaism" is simply confused mumbo-jumbo, because every Karaite can interpret the Torah as he or she wants without any recourse to tradition (except the Karaite traditions that they themselves admit are made up), so it's basically religion a la carte, choose what you want as you go.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by umie View Post
    What? I did not know that. It is even worse than I thought...
    and why is it that do not write "God", instead, they write "G-d" as if it is a forbidden word.
    Anyone?
    The names of God are forbidden to be erased. Therefore, in much Jewish literature, the word is written in a defective way so that when the paper is discarded it will not be a desecration of God's name. This is not necessary on computers where the text does not actually exist in print, but many do it out of habit in any case.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by fschmidt View Post
    Actually according to the Talmud, the rabbis have authority over Earth and God doesn't. In the story of Rabbi Eliezer, Rabbi Eliezer calls God to speak in his defense, which God does, and the other rabbis basically tell God to mind his own business.

    https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...Study-Hall.htm

    https://youtu.be/tddCNY6U77Y?t=1320
    Well, you're totally mischaracterizing what's being said here. What it means is that we follow God's word as stated in the Torah and do not use "miracles," which can be easily misinterpreted, misunderstood or even faked, to determine what God's law is. Rather, we use reason, perhaps familiar to our readers as "ijtihad". Rabbi Eliezer was not a prophet, first of all, so the miracles done on his behalf did not obligate the rabbis to follow his opinion if they determined that it did not meet their criteria of logic. Instead of telling God to "mind His own business," they are actually honoring God by following what it states in the Torah (Deut. 17:8): "If a case is too baffling for you to decide, be it a controversy over homicide, civil law, or assault—matters of dispute in your courts—you shall promptly repair to the place that the LORD your God will have chosen, and appear before the levitical priests, or the magistrate in charge at the time, and present your problem. When they have announced to you the verdict in the case, you shall carry out the verdict that is announced to you from that place that the LORD chose, observing scrupulously all their instructions to you."
    No verse of the Torah states, "Go find a Rabbi who will produce a miracle for you to determine the law."

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    Karl's Avatar
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    Re: Talmudic Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by Misbah-Abd View Post
    Disbelievers from Bani Israel

    ‘And they say: Our hearts are covered. Nay, Allah has cursed them on account of their disbelief; so little it is that they believe. And when there came to them a Book from Allah verifying that which they have, and aforetime they used to pray for victory against those who disbelieve, but when there came to them (Prophet) that which they did not recognize, they disbelieved in him; so Allah’s curse is on the unbelievers.’
    (Surah Baqarah, 2: 88-89)


    ‘But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others).’
    (Surah Maidah, 5:13)


    ‘Say: Shall I inform you of (him who is) worse than this in retribution from Allah? (Worse is he) whom Allah has cursed and brought His wrath upon, and of whom He made apes and swine, and he who served the Shaitan; these are worse in place and more erring from the straight path.’
    (Surah Maidah, 5:60)


    ‘Those who disbelieved from among the children of Israel were cursed by the tongue of Dawood and Isa, son of Marium; this was because they disobeyed and used to exceed the limit.’
    (Surah Maidah, 5:78)


    ‘And they are overtaken by curse in this (world), and on the resurrection day, evil the gift which shall be given.’

    (Surah Hud, 11:9
    9)

    ‘And We caused a curse to follow them in this world, and on the day of resurrection they shall be of those made to appear hideous"

    s.’
    Thank you for defending my post. And you are right I should not make light of curses especially from the Creator.

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