Talmudic Judaism

[Moses613]

SHO is starting what I have assumed to be the normative understanding among educated Muslims.

Btw the Talmud says zero about Maryam and very debatable if there are any references to Issa in it.

 

[Ümit]

The point is,the Talmud might contain some teachings of Divine origin,but not a revelation from Allah in its entirety.Please note that the article also mentions things which are not found in today's Bible but found in apocryphal scripts and Talmud. That might mean that some things which were in the Scriptures can be in the Talmud,but as we can see, Talmud, Tawrah, Zabur, or Injeel in the form we see today are not entirely God's words, but rather " are a mixture of truth, corruption and revelation."

I agree that the Talmud is not any Revelation from God in its entirety. My point is, it may contain some part of it.

The Talmud is not any revelation from God AT ALL.for what I understand, it is just some rulings made by Rabbi's and passed on generation by generation.
Still it can contain some teachings of divine origin. this is not weird. look at our hadeeth collection. we also have hadeeth which can not be found in the quran, so it is not a revelation from Allah, but still can contain teachings of divine origin.
not completely comparable of course, but you get the picture.

SHO is starting what I have assumed to be the normative understanding among educated Muslims.

Btw the Talmud says zero about Maryam and very debatable if there are any references to Issa in it.

This, I do not believe. because I looked for talmuds online and the first one I found was this:

http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/

if you then click on folio 106, you can find this quote:

Balaam also the son of Beor, the soothsayer, [did the children of Israel slay with the sword].[SUP]40[/SUP] A soothsayer? But he was a prophet! — R. Johanan said: At first he was a prophet, but subsequently a soothsayer.[SUP]41[/SUP] R. Papa observed: This is what men say, 'She who was the descendant of princes and governors, played the harlot with carpenters.'[SUP]42[/SUP]

footnote 41:

As a punishment for wishing to curse Israel he was degraded from a prophet to a soothsayer.

footnote 42:

'Shipdraggers,' (v. Rashi). Herford, Christianity in the Talmud, p. 48, suggests that Balaam is frequently used in the Talmud as a type for Jesus (v. also pp. 64-70). Though no name is mentioned to shew which woman is meant, the mother of Jesus may be alluded to, which theory is strengthened by the statement that she mated with a carpenter. (The Munich MS. has [H] in the margin instead of [H], i.e., singular instead of plural.)

So it looks like the Talmud indeed speaks badly about the Mary, the mother of Jesus.

 

[Misbah-Abd]

And it is Divine Justice that Allah Azza wa Jal is sending Jesus a.s. back to the earth, not only to destroy the Dajjal, but those who have disparaged him and his mother for over 2000 years. That's right...keep migrating to the Zionist State O Jewish settlers, keep bulldozing homes of the Palestinians and expanding your settlements. The trees and stones await when they can call you out from where you are hiding from the army of Jesus a.s.

 

[cinnamonrolls1]

Well Jews i think dont believe in Jesus pbuh correct?

 

[Misbah-Abd]

Well Jews i think dont believe in Jesus pbuh correct?

The majority don't but you have a sect called Messianic Jews or aka Jews for Jesus that do believe in him somewhat.

 

[Moses613]

come-and-hear is a website devoted completely to defaming the Talmud. Herford's theory that Balaam is a reference to Jesus has been debunked long ago. Balaam was a(n evil) character in the Bible (Torah) and there is literally no evidence that anything the Talmud says about him is in some way secretly connected to Jesus. Actually the best proof is from the quote you cited, because the Jewish sages would never have said that Jesus "was" a prophet (sorry guys we don't believe in him whatsoever) and then was downgraded. He was never a prophet at all.

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And it is Divine Justice that Allah Azza wa Jal is sending Jesus a.s. back to the earth, not only to destroy the Dajjal, but those who have disparaged him and his mother for over 2000 years. That's right...keep migrating to the Zionist State O Jewish settlers, keep bulldozing homes of the Palestinians and expanding your settlements. The trees and stones await when they can call you out from where you are hiding from the army of Jesus a.s.

"Surely, those who believe, and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians, whoever have faith with true hearts in Allah and in the Last-day and do good deeds, their reward is with their Lord, and there shall be no fear for them nor any grief."

— Qur'an 2:62​

 

[Ümit]

The majority don't but you have a sect called Messianic Jews or aka Jews for Jesus that do believe in him somewhat.

Hey İ just realized...if the Jews do not believe in Jesus...then they also do not believe in antichrist...
Who is going to fight Dajjal then according to them? Or do they not believe in that at all?

 

[cinnamonrolls1]

Hey İ just realized...if the Jews do not believe in Jesus...then they also do not believe in antichrist...
Who is going to fight Dajjal then according to them? Or do they not believe in that at all?

Hmm.

 

[Ümit]

Hmm.

Weird right? Both Christians...as Muslims believe İsa as will come back to Earth one day to fight dajjal. Jews however do not believe in İsa as...so do they then believe that dajjal will appear one day? And if yes, who is going to fight him?

 

[cinnamonrolls1]

Weird right? Both Christians...as Muslims believe İsa as will come back to Earth one day to fight dajjal. Jews however do not believe in İsa as...so do they then believe that dajjal will appear one day? And if yes, who is going to fight him?

That is a bit strange(in my opinion)

 

[Misbah-Abd]

Weird right? Both Christians...as Muslims believe İsa as will come back to Earth one day to fight dajjal. Jews however do not believe in İsa as...so do they then believe that dajjal will appear one day? And if yes, who is going to fight him?

They will not recognize the Dajjal and think he is their Messiah and be duped by his false miracles. That is why he will be pursued and killed in the Zionist state. And Allah Knows Best.
pu
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come-and-hear is a website devoted completely to defaming the Talmud. Herford's theory that Balaam is a reference to Jesus has been debunked long ago. Balaam was a(n evil) character in the Bible (Torah) and there is literally no evidence that anything the Talmud says about him is in some way secretly connected to Jesus. Actually the best proof is from the quote you cited, because the Jewish sages would never have said that Jesus "was" a prophet (sorry guys we don't believe in him whatsoever) and then was downgraded. He was never a prophet at all.

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"Surely, those who believe, and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians, whoever have faith with true hearts in Allah and in the Last-day and do good deeds, their reward is with their Lord, and there shall be no fear for them nor any grief."

— Qur'an 2:62​

You will come to know that he was the Messiah. And that verse in the Quran that you referenced is referring to those Jews, Christians and Sabians in the PAST before the advent of Prophet Muhammad s.a.a.w not the ones living afterwards. But nice try legitimizing todays Jews....correction lame attempt.

 

[Ümit]

That is a bit strange(in my opinion)

You are missing the point here...don't they believe in the prophecy that there will come a dajjal on Earth one day? And someone is going to fight him?
Whether or not they will recognize him is irrelevant.

 

[cinnamonrolls1]

You are missing the point here...don't they believe in the prophecy that there will come a dajjal on Earth one day? And someone is going to fight him?
Whether or not they will recognize him is irrelevant.

I dont know if they believe in the dajjal or not. I was just stating my opinion lol.

 

[Ümit]

I dont know if they believe in the dajjal or not. I was just stating my opinion lol.

İ do not know that either...that is why İ am asking.

 

[cinnamonrolls1]

İ do not know that either...that is why İ am asking.

It appears they dont. Couldnt find much apart from a quora answer saying no as they dont believe in Isa pbuh.

 

[cinnamonrolls1]

Heres a copy and paste job from someone on Quora. Dk how correct it is.( Any jewish board members wanna enlighten us?)

There is no such notion in Judaism for two reasons:

Jews do not believe in “Christ” (or at least do not believe that Jesus is a “Christ” or savior as the word implies), so the notion of an opposite “Antichrist” does not make sense at all and,

 

[Moses613]

Heres a copy and paste job from someone on Quora. Dk how correct it is.( Any jewish board members wanna enlighten us?)

There is no such notion in Judaism for two reasons:

Jews do not believe in “Christ” (or at least do not believe that Jesus is a “Christ” or savior as the word implies), so the notion of an opposite “Antichrist” does not make sense at all and,

Well, "christ" is just the Greek translation of "messiah" which is the Hebrew word for "anointed". So in that sense we believe the Messiah will come, but would never use the terminology Christ due to its associations with Jesus. And there is a prophecy that the Messiah will fight a war with our enemies, but we really don't know much about it beyond that.

 

[cinnamonrolls1]

Well, "christ" is just the Greek translation of "messiah" which is the Hebrew word for "anointed". So in that sense we believe the Messiah will come, but would never use the terminology Christ due to its associations with Jesus. And there is a prophecy that the Messiah will fight a war with our enemies, but we really don't know much about it beyond that.

Thats interesting. So by messiah, who does that exactly refer to?

 

[Moses613]

But nice try legitimizing todays Jews....correction lame attempt.

"Legitimizing"? How about just being nice and polite, as Muhammad said: وَلَا تُجَادِلُوا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ إِلَّا بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ إِلَّا الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُوا مِنْهُمْ ۖ وَقُولُوا آمَنَّا بِالَّذِي أُنزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَأُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُمْ وَإِلَٰهُنَا وَإِلَٰهُكُمْ وَاحِدٌ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ - 29:46
and not declaring your longing for the day you can kill us.

I mean, unless you consider me to be الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُوا مِنْهُمْ, but since you don't know me, I don't see why you would.

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Thats interesting. So by messiah, who does that exactly refer to?

All kings of Israel were messiah (actually, mâshia

ḥ​

in Hebrew), anointed with the special anointing oil described in the Torah. We believe that in the future, a righteous and prophetic king will arrive and be anointed, and he will re-establish the Children of Israel in their own land, cause all the people of the world to repent and bring peace and harmony to the entire Earth. There will be those who oppose him, and he will fight against them.

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Ok, well that transliteration didn't display properly and I don't know how/if I can edit the post. The word is משיח, "mashiahh" with a

ح sound at the end.​

 

[Misbah-Abd]

"Legitimizing"? How about just being nice and polite, as Muhammad said: وَلَا تُجَادِلُوا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ إِلَّا بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ إِلَّا الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُوا مِنْهُمْ ۖ وَقُولُوا آمَنَّا بِالَّذِي أُنزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَأُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُمْ وَإِلَٰهُنَا وَإِلَٰهُكُمْ وَاحِدٌ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ - 29:46
and not declaring your longing for the day you can kill us.

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When your people are nice and polite to our brothers and sisters in Palestine and not bulldoze their homes that can be a start..