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I am a Christian and I would like to participate. Since most of the arguments posted above are not real arguments at all and only pretend to be funny (number 21 for example) why don't we focus on the real arguments? Number 2 for instance is a good argument that most Christians agree with. Muhammad killed and killed many people. Jesus certainly didn't, not even to save his life. Who looks closer to our idea of a merciful God?
What do you do when someone steals from someone else? What if you keep saying go and sin no more, but he does?format_quote Originally Posted by sevenxtrust
In either case Jesus isn't here to make that decision (I don't think he ever did anyways), but for the sake of argument, he's not around anymore so what do you do?
In most countries you send the thief to jail, with a whole bunch of people that are just as bad or worse. There's more of a chance the person will repent and do good deeds if he's Muslim than if he's another faith or none at all. In America there are few who do accept Christ as their saviour in jail, and if they get out become good people, but the majority come out and are labelled as ex-cons, which makes it hard to find employment, etc...
So what do you do with thief, rapist, or murderer?
chirstianity or islam.....
islam ofcourse
lol if only it was that simple!!!
Laa illaha ilallah!!!!!
During the time that Jesus walked the earth, islam had not yet been founded, it was about 600 years too early for Jesus to be a muslim.format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
But you forget all the prophets preyed to allah they had diffrent books reveled to them but they shared a common thing they believed in allah so yeah I would call him a muslim, they're sharia was diffrent from ours so where the other prophets but we're all muslim.format_quote Originally Posted by Malsidabym
Greetings and peace sargon;
Mankind is not very good at behaving and we do not seem brilliant in how we deal with criminals. We could execute them, cut their hands off, or give them life imprisonment, but others will always do the same hoping they will not get caught.What do you do when someone steals from someone else? What if you keep saying go and sin no more, but he does?
Criminals can fool the police and the judge; so God is the only one who can deal out justice fairly, and we will all have to stand before God sometime.
So in a way turning the other cheek can make sense if God puts everything right.
In the spirit of seeking justice for all
Eric
Greeting Eric,format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Are you then saying that criminals should not be punished? (not puting words in your mouth, just asking).
If we turn the other cheek and allow such criminals to roam free then we are putting ourselves and innocent people in danger.
Peace.
islam means submmision n surrender to the will of allahformat_quote Originally Posted by Malsidabym
a muslim is someone who submitted to the will of allah
jesus pbuh submitted himself to the will of allahso therefor he was a muslim
salaam
Hiyaformat_quote Originally Posted by mashaallahislam means submmision n surrender to the will of allah
a muslim is someone who submitted to the will of allah
jesus pbuh submitted himself to the will of allah
salaam
so does that means all Jews and Christians are Muslims then?
format_quote Originally Posted by Nicola
no ofcoure it dun't
take care
*Deleted by author*
Salaam
This is one thing I've noticed about christians, it's all about love. in islam we also fear our lord.
Well Christianity has become more about love and less about fear. It used to be about fear too.format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
One thing I have noticed is that there are Christians who take Jesus' message as if it were secular - they believe Jesus was just a really interesting philosopher. There are no Muslims between the pious and the secular.
I do not know the Christians you know...but I and fellow Christians that I know...very much fear the God. He who has no fear of God has no faith in God, you can have no true repentance without fear of the Lord. When we say 'Chrsitians we are saved...what we are actually saved from is the wrath of God because without it...we would have to live without the presence of God..and that is unthinkable.format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
Doesn't God tell us..in
Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Salaamformat_quote Originally Posted by Nicola
I stand corrected.
No actually you are right...after reading HeiGou thread...I realised it is true, alot of churches today...give the wrong message out not the one that Jesus gave us..but he did tell us this would happen in the future..that wolves would come in sheeps clothings to lead us astray! and that is what we see happening.Salaam
I stand corrected.
Some do not follow the truth but change it to include gay vicars..etc.
these people have been lead astray by Satan.
Greetings and peace Cheb,
This is kind of confusing for me also, and I struggle to understand the true meaning.Are you then saying that criminals should not be punished? (not puting words in your mouth, just asking).
I feel that scriptures are intended to change the individual, which means I should strive to change myself more than I should strive to change others.
Supposing I was a judge and I listened to the evidence of rape and decided the man was guilty and sentenced him to ten years in prison. Whilst he is in prison other people will be out in the community raping innocent women, when the man comes out of prison he could also reoffend.
Catching criminals and punishing them does not stop innocent people from being harmed, unless the criminal has a life changing experience and decides for themselves to turn away from crime.
Innocent people are often the victims but man made law and punishments do not put a stop to this happening. Only God can put all things right and we have to trust God to do this for us.If we turn the other cheek and allow such criminals to roam free then we are putting ourselves and innocent people in danger.
I have taken a news story today about the Christian peacemaker Tom Fox, after his body was found in Iraq. To me the message is powerful it asks for reconciliation and peace after a possible murder.
In the spirit of seeking justice for all peopleTheological news from ekklesia
Fox's family has been informed of the tragic loss. There is no further news of the other hostages - Briton Norman Kember and Canadians Jim Loney and Harmeet Singh Sooden – who were seen recently on a video released to the al-Jazeera TV station.
Expressions of sorrow and solidarity have begun to pour into the headquarters of Christian Peacemaker Teams, following the news of Tom Fox’s death.
CPT, an ecumenically-supported ministry of the historic peace churches (Mennonites, Brethren in Christ and Quakers), says that the awful outcome of the kidnap saga will not deter their determination to confront Iraq’s occupation and cycle of violence with “unarmed love”.
At a hastily convened global press conference in Chicago this morning, the following statement was released the world’s media:
“In grief we tremble before God who wraps us with compassion. The death of our beloved colleague and friend pierces us with pain. Tom Fox's body was found in Baghdad yesterday.
“Christian Peacemaker Teams extends our deep and heartfelt condolences to the family and community of Tom Fox, with whom we have traveled so closely in these days of crisis.
“We mourn the loss of Tom Fox who combined a lightness of spirit, a firm opposition to all oppression, and the recognition of God in everyone.
“We renew our plea for the safe release of Harmeet Sooden, Jim Loney and Norman Kember.
“Each of our teammates has responded to Jesus's prophetic call to live out a nonviolent alternative to the cycle of violence and revenge.
“In response to Tom's passing, we ask that everyone set aside inclinations to vilify or demonize others, no matter what they have done.
“In Tom's own words: ‘We reject violence to punish anyone. We ask that there be no retaliation on relatives or property. We forgive those who consider us their enemies. We hope that in loving both friends and enemies and by intervening nonviolently to aid those who are systematically oppressed, we can contribute in some small way to transforming this volatile situation.’
“Even as we grieve the loss of our beloved colleague, we stand in the light of his strong witness to the power of love and the courage of nonviolence. That light reveals the way out of fear and grief and war.
“Through these days of crisis, Christian Peacemaker Teams has been surrounded and upheld by a great outpouring of compassion: messages of support, acts of mercy, prayers, and public actions offered by the most senior religious councils and by school children, by political leaders and by those organizing for justice and human rights, by friends in distant nations and by strangers near at hand.
“These words and actions sustain us.
“While one of our teammates is lost to us, the strength of this outpouring is not lost to God’s movement for just peace among all peoples.
“At the forefront of that support are strong and courageous actions from Muslim brothers and sisters throughout the world for which we are profoundly grateful.
“Their graciousness inspires us to continue working for the day when Christians speak up as boldly for the human rights of thousands Iraqis still detained illegally by the United States and United Kingdom.
“Such an outpouring of action for justice and peace would be a fitting memorial for Tom.
“Let us all join our voices on behalf of those who continue to suffer under occupation, whose loved ones have been killed or are missing, and in so doing may we hasten the day when both those who are wrongly detained and those who bear arms will return safely to their homes.
“In such a peace we will find solace for our grief.
“Despite the tragedy of this day, we remain committed to put into practice these words of Jim Loney: ‘With the waging of war, we will not comply. With the help of God’s grace, we will struggle for justice. With God's abiding kindness, we will love even our enemies.’
“We continue in hope for Jim, Harmeet and Norman's safe return home safe.”
The views expressed in this article do not necessarily represent the views of Ekklesia
Eric
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
I couldn't agree more, but don't you see that's what Allah has given us with Islam? The very word Islam means submit to God! It's a system of life for all humans, for all times, in all situations. All the worlds problems (drugs, war, rape, abortion, poverty, depression, etc...) would all be fixed with Islam.
You have to visualize it!
First, imagine a society based soley on worship to God, education, and a good society. Now call that Islam, and you have Islam!!! That's what Islam means!
Well that is not quite what Islam means. Islam means a little bit more than that. But if you replaced the word "Islam" with "Christianity" no one on the Christian side would disagree, probably.format_quote Originally Posted by sargon
Exactly what is the Islamic solution to drugs, war, poverty, depression and abortion for that matter?
Finally what is the evidence that such a solution even exists? Christians talk about a Christian society all the time but I think most people think we will never see it because it is not practical. My opinion on an Islamic society is that either it has been tried many many times in the past (in which case it has failed) or it has either never been tried or was only tried for a few years while the Rashidun were alive (in which case it is not so much impractical as unrealistic).
islam is a religion. the reason why muslims still believe in islam is because of their faith in Allah, the only god. and it was never about the golden era where islam was a leading civilisation..one of the great reasons Muslims still believe in Islam is because of that "Golden Era" in which Islam was a leading civilization in the world.
For me, I don't feel it's the scriptures that actually change the person...but the Holy Spirit living inside me..guiding me, teaching me..anyone can read the Bible but without the Holy Spirit instructing me giving me the revelations of Gods word..I would not be able to understand all those words of wisdom and words of knowledge, there actual meanings..and my life certainly would not have changed.Eric H said:
I feel that scriptures are intended to change the individual, which means I should strive to change myself more than I should strive to change others.
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