Its strange and funny to see some of the Non muslims on this board say OH IF I SAID THIS ABOUT THE QURAN i would be banned. No you wouldnt i would LOVE to hear what you can try to put out on the Quran. There is not a single contradiction in the Quran. Or any areas of error in any established science or any aspects of life described in the Quran.
Now i would like to ask those non muslim friends, what can you possibly come up with against the Quran?
I believe that all religions are man made and all books on earth are man-written. According to muslim belief holy quran is word of ALLAH. It means that it must be true. I m giving translation of a verse of holy quran here,
Here ALMIGHTY ALLAH is refering to none other than muslims, declaring them the best of peoples, evolved for mankind. But when we see today's muslims, we see absolutely a different picture than what is told in the above verse. So my question is............
1. Is ALLAH lying?
2. If he is not, than plz give me justification of this verse, anyone?
Thanks.
Im sorry to disrespect or anything, But that has to be one the weakest questions i had come across on this board. Why so weak? The actions of a few do not blame it on the religion and the other groups of people. If i say someone in Mumbai does something to kill someone. Do i say all of India are murderers? It takes only alittle common sense.
And the reason why you see a different picture is because of the Media.If that is what you see then again that is your problem. Do some research and learn about True Islam. Not CNN Islam.
Im sorry to disrespect or anything, But that has to be one the weakest questions i had come across on this board. Why so weak? The actions of a few do not blame it on the religion and the other groups of people. If i say someone in Mumbai does something to kill someone. Do i say all of India are murderers? It takes only alittle common sense.
And the reason why you see a different picture is because of the Media.If that is what you see then again that is your problem. Do some research and learn about True Islam. Not CNN Islam.
Brother mahdisoldier19, I think that u havent understood my question, the weakest one in ur opinion. I dont know how u come to conclusion that I m that I m blaming any religion after seeing actions of a few. No brother, its not like that. I think that u should read my post carefully and than answer.
But ya, I m talking about majority of muslims, who inspite of taking shahada, chose to stray from the real path of islam, chose to violate laws of holy quran, chose to disobey ALMIGHTY ALLAH. Consequently we do not see any true islamic state inspite of so many muslim-dominated countries on the earth. Did ALLAH speak about same muslims? or muslims of that particular time? Or ALLAH himself could not judge his ppls?
Brother I will appreciate if u answer my question, inspite of it being a weak one. And as my research and knowing about islam is concerned, than I m sure that its not going to make a big difference on the muslims of the world, they are definetely not going to come on right path by any of my such actions, so ur advice is not relevent here, I hope u understand.
Brother mahdisoldier19, I think that u havent understood my question, the weakest one in ur opinion. I dont know how u come to conclusion that I m that I m blaming any religion after seeing actions of a few. No brother, its not like that. I think that u should read my post carefully and than answer.
But ya, I m talking about majority of muslims, who inspite of taking shahada, chose to stray from the real path of islam, chose to violate laws of holy quran, chose to disobey ALMIGHTY ALLAH. Consequently we do not see any true islamic state inspite of so many muslim-dominated countries on the earth. Did ALLAH speak about same muslims? or muslims of that particular time? Or ALLAH himself could not judge his ppls?
Brother I will appreciate if u answer my question, inspite of it being a weak one. And as my research and knowing about islam is concerned, than I m sure that its not going to make a big difference on the muslims of the world, they are definetely not going to come on right path by any of my such actions, so ur advice is not relevent here, I hope u understand.
Thanks.
When your talking about Muslims. Your talking about Islam. Which makes its a religion. Infact Judaism was Islam in its time as was christianity, Now Islam is the true religion. Look deeply into the Quran, im sure the answers are there. And the purpose ot why there isnt a true Islamic state , i cannot answer this because everytime there is a true islamic state. A democratic state invades it in the name of Terrorism. So i cant really follow up on that answer.
Ansar - I am slightly confused here, from how I see it you were asked if Adam & Eve were Human by czgibson to which you responded:
Yes they were human, but they must have been very different from us if their descendants were able to diversify into various ethnicities. Or perhaps some aspect of evolution/adaptation had a role here? God knows best.
I suggested you have made an assumption here. Your saying they were human (how do you know this) and that they were "different" from us. A bit of a paradox would you not agree. You have responded by saying:
Isn't that what I am being asked to do?
I don't think czgibson asked for an assumption when he asked you if "adam & eve were human"?
Quote: Root - In your post earlier you stated adam and eve were different because they had "material" in them for future enthic divergance may I ask what is the material?
Ansar - If I had known then I wouldn't have used a vague word like 'material'.
So you "think" they had material but cannot offer an answer to what it is?
The keyword there is homo sapien. Homo sapiens have lived from around 200 thousand years ago. But then there are the other species within the homo genus which go back as far 2.4 million years ago. 'Species' like homo neanderthalensis and the recently discovered homo heidelbergenses don't really strike me as non-human, and in fact there has been debate as to whether they really are a seperate species from homo sapiens or are actually just a subspecies. Hence, they are sometimes referred to as Homo sapiens heidelbergensis and Homo sapiens neanderthalensis.
I agree with you in reference to the "Homo Family" which is obtained by thier bipedal features and cranial mass. However, they are NOT homo-sapians so I am still at a loss as why you consider Adam & Eve as "Human" if you date them at 1 - 2 million years ago which would make them a hominid species and very very doubtful of being Human at all? You cannot claim adam & eve were human if you date them 1 - 2mya
PS. Homo neanderthalensis does not share common ancestory with us, this don't mean they never did in small pockets. But the mytachondrial DNA of a neanderthol is totally seperate to ours thus common ancestory has been ruled out.
When your talking about Muslims. Your talking about Islam. Which makes its a religion. Infact Judaism was Islam in its time as was christianity, Now Islam is the true religion. Look deeply into the Quran, im sure the answers are there. And the purpose ot why there isnt a true Islamic state , i cannot answer this because everytime there is a true islamic state. A democratic state invades it in the name of Terrorism. So i cant really follow up on that answer.
Well brother, I donk know how many of ur own muslim bros and sisters will agree with u that talking about muslims and talking about islam are same. But once again I m disappointed to note that u failed to answer the weakest question on this board, which was from myself. So I assume that U are unable to answer. But no problem, there are another members on this forum who can come forward and answer me.
But permit me to tell U that whatever excuse U have given for non existance of a true islamic state is wrong according to my views. I sincerely believe that Majority of muslims today are only behaving like hypocrites when it comes to following the religion. They just pick and choose according to their convienience and greed. I m sure that u can blame some democratic state if I ask u why muslim states are doing the blunder of allowing interest on its soil, so its no use discussing with U. Coz U are defending the ppls who chose to disobey the commands of ALLAH.
Ansar - I am slightly confused here, from how I see it you were asked if Adam & Eve were Human by czgibson to which you responded:
I suggested you have made an assumption here. Your saying they were human (how do you know this) and that they were "different" from us.
I have not made an assumption in saying they were human; that is explicitly mentioned in Islam. When you said 'assumption' I thought you were referring to my other comment about their descendants diversifying.
A bit of a paradox would you not agree.
It shouldn't be for someone like you who accepts the theory of evolution, which suggests that some humans would be very different from other humans.
So you "think" they had material but cannot offer an answer to what it is?
I know they had the material because it is mentioned in the ahadith. But as far as what the material was, your guess is as good as mine - and in this scenario guesses are of little good.
However, they are NOT homo-sapians so I am still at a loss as why you consider Adam & Eve as "Human" if you date them at 1 - 2 million years ago which would make them a hominid species and very very doubtful of being Human at all?
You ignored the fact that many researchers consider homo neandethalensis and homo heidelbergensis to be homo sapiens neanderthalensis and homo spaiens heidelbergensis - i.e. a subspecies of homo sapiens.
And btw, the figure of 1MYA-2MYA is just my personal opinion. It may be wrong, it may change. Others may suggest a figure of 200 TYA, others 400 TYA, others even 15 TYA.
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]
6 is the total number of days it took
2 days to create the world itself
4 days to add the rest of the things in
at least thats how i see it.
As-salamu Alaykum,
That is how I see it too. Makes sense to me. Definately not a contradiction. It can be confusing because we talk differently now, but when I was reading it I didnt think it was contradicting.
The reason why i didnt give an answer is because the answer is in the Ayat that you mentioned. You just have to read it more carefully and understand it Brother. But its ok you dont want to understand it you reject it no problem.
The reason why i didnt give an answer is because the answer is in the Ayat that you mentioned. You just have to read it more carefully and understand it Brother. But its ok you dont want to understand it you reject it no problem.
I sure it's not a case of not wanting to understand. Either justahumane understands something or he doesn't, just as is true for anyone else.
If I said "People from Mumbai are the best people, enjoining what is right and condemning what is wrong" and then a gang of Mumbai citizens committed an act which resulted in many deaths, my statement would have been shown to be wrong; not totally wrong, but wrong in a significant respect.
Yea but in the ayat he is referring to gibson it states that there will be a FEW WITH FAITH who Transgress. Or did he miss that part?
Let's look at it again:
3:110 Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.
Perhaps you could point out the part that you're talking about. The transgressors mentioned here seem to be the People of the Book.
Oh My dear Friend i apologize it seems that you dont have the correct translation.
The people who Allah swt is referring to is not Muslims It is:
You [true believers in Islāmic Monotheism, and real followers of Prophet Muhammad SAW and his Sunnah (legal ways, etc.)] are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind; you enjoin Al-Ma'rûf (i.e. Islāmic Monotheism and all that Islām has ordained) and forbid Al-Munkar (polytheism, disbelief and all that Islām has forbidden), and you believe in Allāh. And had the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) believed, it would have been better for them; among them are some who have faith, but most of them are Al-Fāsiqûn (disobedient to Allāh - and rebellious against Allāh's Command)
Here is something related to that verse and what it means. Plus when God (swt) says "Ye are the best of peoples", he is talking about true Muslims that follow the Quran and Hadith. (correct me if I am wrong)
"Question:
According to the teachings of Islam, changing evil is an Islamic duty that can be done on three levels — changing something, speaking out against it, or detesting it. Nowadays there is much talk about political evil. Are today's common evils (munkarat ) in the political scene included in the types of evils that should be changed? Or is changing evil confined to what is referred to in Shari`ah as unlawful, such as adultery and alcohol? If the duty of changing evil extends also to politics, what is the stance of Islam towards the one who keeps silent regarding political corruption?
Answer:
In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.
Thanks for your question, and we earnestly implore Allah to guide us all to the best ways by which we can lead our lives according to the teachings of Islam.
Indeed, the evil (Arabic fasad) that Muslims should change, according to their capability as stated in a Prophetic hadith, includes all kinds of vile acts and abominable things that take place in society. Islam urges Muslims to try their best to change evil within the limits clarified by the Shari`ah. In addition, the Qur'an and the Sunnah contain clear texts that severely criticize the one who remains silent to the evil and vile acts committed.
Responding to the question, the eminent Muslim scholar Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi states the following:
The texts in the Qur'an and the Sunnah that severely condemn remaining silent to evil acts committed in the society deeply affect anyone who has an atom's weigh of faith in his or her heart. This condemnation holds whether the one committing evil is a ruler or one of the ruled. Allah Almighty says: [Those of the children of Israel who went astray were cursed by the tongue of David, and of Jesus, son of Mary. That was because they rebelled and used to transgress. They restrained not one another from the wickedness they did. Verily evil was that they used to do!] (Al-Ma'idah 5:78-79).
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is also reported to have said, "He who amongst you sees an evil should change it with the help of his hand; and if he has no strength enough to do it, then he should do it with his tongue, and if he has not strength enough to do it, (even) then he should do it with his heart, and that is the least (sign) of faith" (Muslim).
In this regard it is a mistake to think that evil is confined to the unlawful acts such as adultery and drinking alcohol.
A ruler's humiliating his subjects is an evil; forging elections is another evil; and refraining from voting is also an evil because it passively leads to giving authority to people unworthy of bearing public responsibility. Evil also encompasses misappropriating public funds; monopolizing goods that people need; detaining people without legal evidence; torturing detainees in prisons; giving or taking bribes, and mediating between givers and takers of bribes; adulating rulers; taking Allah's enemies and the enemies of the Muslim Ummah as friends, etc. Hence, we find that the meaning of evil includes many things that people regard as sheer political affairs.
It does not befit true Muslims who sincerely seek to please Almighty Allah to stand inactive before such vile acts on the pretext that they fear to take serious steps towards reform, or that they want to be on the safe side anyway.
Should this negative spirit spread in the Muslim Ummah, it would no longer be able to undertake the responsibility towards guiding the world, and it would then become a nation other than the one Almighty Allah describes by saying [Ye are the best community that hath been raised up for mankind. Ye enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency; and ye believe in Allah] (Aal `Imran 3:110).
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) also warned the Muslims against adopting negative (apathetic) attitudes of this kind as he (peace and blessing be upon him) is reported to have said, "Should it occur that the people of my Ummah have such extreme fear that they become unable to say to the unjust people 'You are wrong,' they would no longer be worthy of life" (Ahmad).
Dictates of faith require Muslims not to stand helpless in the face of evil, whatever be its kind — political, economic, intellectual, social, etc. Rather Muslims should exert their utmost efforts (while making use of all possible legal channels) to change evil. If they cannot do actual things to change it, they are to try this by expressing their refusal openly; and if still they cannot do this, they are to resort to the least attempt of reform, that is, to abhor it in their hearts, which is considered as "the least (sign) of faith" according to the Prophet's hadith referred to above.
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) considered abhorring evil from one's heart as a kind of changing it, as it is a psychological and intellectual mobilization on the way of refusing it. Therefore, it is not a total submission to and acceptance of the evil as some people may think. Had it been so, it would not have been referred to in the hadith as a kind of changing evil.
Constant abhorrence of evil will certainly result someday in something positive in the way of resistance; it may be then in the form of revolution and utter change of affairs.
There is another hadith of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) that referred to changing the evil with one's heart as a kind of jihad, though also considered here as the lowest rank of jihad. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is reported to have said, "There was no prophet sent by Almighty Allah to a community before me but he would find supporters and companions who would follow in his footsteps and abide by his teachings. Then there came (after them) generations that would say (that is, preach) what they would not act upon and do what they had not been given instructions to do. He who can perform jihad against (resist) those people with the help of his hands is a believer; he who can do this with his tongue is also a believer; and he who can do this (even) with his heart is a believer too. There is no atom of faith beyond this (that is, seeking resistance with any of these means)" (Muslim).
However, individual efforts may fail to resist evil, especially if it has prevailed in such a monstrous way that it is practiced by the very people who are supposed to fight against it. I mean here the rulers and people in authority. If the case is so, combining efforts to resist evil by all possible and lawful means becomes a religious duty upon the political parties and organizations that seek reform. It is a kind of seeking cooperation on that which is good and righteous for the good of people."
Oh My dear Friend i apologize it seems that you dont have the correct translation.
The people who Allah swt is referring to is not Muslims It is:
You [true believers in Islāmic Monotheism, and real followers of Prophet Muhammad SAW and his Sunnah (legal ways, etc.)] are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind; you enjoin Al-Ma'rûf (i.e. Islāmic Monotheism and all that Islām has ordained) and forbid Al-Munkar (polytheism, disbelief and all that Islām has forbidden), and you believe in Allāh. And had the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) believed, it would have been better for them; among them are some who have faith, but most of them are Al-Fāsiqûn (disobedient to Allāh - and rebellious against Allāh's Command)
So Where is the Question j/c?
I didn't realise there was a correct translation...
Anyway, the content of the verse remains the same, so justahumane's question remains.
I didn't realise there was a correct translation...
Anyway, the content of the verse remains the same, so justahumane's question remains.
Peace
How does the question still remain?
Only the first part of my post answers the question. Furthermore, brother mahdisoldier also gave an interpretation of the verse stating what God (swt) meant when saying "Ye" or "You":
"You [true believers in Islāmic Monotheism, and real followers of Prophet Muhammad SAW and his Sunnah (legal ways, etc.)]"
The Muslims j/c was talking about are NOT the same as the Muslims this verse mentions.
What is his question? He thought the ayat was refering to the Muslims or thats what i thought when in fact its referring to the Christian and jews
According to the interpretation you've quoted, it refers to both Muslims and the People of the Book.
It seems you still have not understood justahumane's question. I've tried explaining it again, and I can't see how I could express it any more clearly than that.
How does the question still remain?
Only the first part of my post answers the question.
Could you point out exactly where it does this? Could you also point out where in the verse it refers to "true Muslims", whatever this means?
The Muslims j/c was talking about are NOT the same as the Muslims this verse mentions.
In what way? Does the Qur'an make this distinction clear?
According to the interpretation you've quoted, it refers to both Muslims and the People of the Book.
Please point this out. The interpretation clearly says the verse is talking about true believers and real believers of the Prophet (pbuh) and his sunnah. i.e. TRUE MUSLIMS.
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
It seems you still have not understood justahumane's question. I've tried explaining it again, and I can't see how I could express it any more clearly than that.
It seems you have not understood the answer.
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Could you point out exactly where it does this? Could you also point out where in the verse it refers to "true Muslims", whatever this means?
The part where I say the verse is talking about true Muslims. True Muslims are those that follow the Quran and the Prophet (pbuh) both by thought and actions. The verse did not refer to the Muslims jc was talking about.
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
In what way? Does the Qur'an make this distinction clear?
God swt clearly states that Muslims should follow the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet pbuh. Why would HE say that we are the best of people if we did not even follow HIS word or HIS prophets actions. The interpretation also explains what God meant by "YOU".
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