If I am standing in front of the IBM headquarters building, and a fellow employee unknowingly asked me, "Is this your building, do you own this building?",
and then I replied, "This building is NOT MY OWN, but it belongs to the ONE WHO EMPLOYS ME",
this would clarify to the person asking that I AM NOT THE OWNER, I am just one of the workers. I do not own the building (Universe), the one I work for owns it.
Did Jesus (p) make such statements regarding his status, the words, the will and the power he used?
WORDS
"Jesus answered them and said, 'My doctrine is not mine, but His Who sent me.'" [John 7:16]
"He who does not love me does not keep my words; and the word which you hear is not mine but the Father's Who sent me." [John 14:24]
"For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father Who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak." [John 12:49]
WILL
"Jesus said to them, 'My food is to do the will of Him Who sent me, and to accomplish His work.'" [John 4:34]
"For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of Him Who sent me." [John 6:38]
"...saying, 'Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from me; nevertheless not my will, but Yours, be done.'" [Luke 22:42]
POWER
"I can of myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and my judgment is righteous, because I do not seek my own will but the will of the Father Who sent me." [John 5:30]
"I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one Who sent him." [John 13:16]
"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you'. If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I" [John 14:28]
"Jesus said to them, 'If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but He sent me.'" [John 8:42]
"To sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father." [Matthew 20:23]
KNOWLEDGE
"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." [Mark 13:32]
"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only." [Matthew 24:36]
"So Jesus answered them, 'My teaching is not mine, but His Who sent me.'" [John 7:16]
STATUS
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord', shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father in heaven." [Matthew 7:21]
"And the Father Himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape." [John 5:37]
"And Jesus said to him, 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.'" [Mark 10:18]
"And I do not seek my own glory; there is One Who seeks and judges." [John 8:50]
Some Christians (though not all) claim that Jesus (p) implied that he was God from the above verses - we see clearly that Jesus (p) denied being God. The God of Abraham in the Old Testament stated "I am God" over 200 times, yet (oddly) Jesus (p) never uttered those three words once in the Gospel. So we see from the many verses above that the House did not belong to Jesus (p), it belonged to the One Who sent him.
"1. Qull huwa Allahu ahad Allahu alssamad Lam yalid walam yoolad Walam yakun lahu kufuwan ahad"
Say: He is Allah the One and Only Allah, the Eternal Absolute He begetteth not nor is He begotten And there is none like unto Him.
(112)
Let me tell you dear friend......i agree with the REAL scriptures of the old and new testiment....I beleive in Jesus(p) Moses(p) David(p) Soloman(p) Abraham(p) and other prophets, if i didnt i wouldnt be one who submits to GOD(muslim)...but remember, Scriptures that have not been tampered with...
peace to you
"1. Qull huwa Allahu ahad Allahu alssamad Lam yalid walam yoolad Walam yakun lahu kufuwan ahad"
Say: He is Allah the One and Only Allah, the Eternal Absolute He begetteth not nor is He begotten And there is none like unto Him.
(112)
Let me tell you dear friend......i agree with the REAL scriptures of the old and new testiment....I beleive in Jesus(p) Moses(p) David(p) Soloman(p) Abraham(p) and other prophets, if i didnt i wouldnt be one who submits to GOD(muslim)...but remember, Scriptures that have not been tampered with...
peace to you
I love you really I do...
I also follow God through Jesus Christ which makes me a Muslim if I might add
Also, remember that G-d cannot be tempted by evil.
"Let no one say when he is tempted: 'I am being tempted by God'; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone" (James 1:13).
Jesus (peace be upon him) was indeed tempted.
"For because he himself has suffered and has been tempted, he is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted" (Hebrews 2:18).
Mark simply states that Jesus was tempted by Satan (1:13) but Matthew (4:1-11) and Luke (4:1-13) elaborate the story. It is claimed that during Jesus' alleged forty days' sojourn in the desert, following his baptism by John, Satan tempted him with promises of an earthly kingdom if Jesus would only worship him.
I would like to state that being Tempted does not mean that you sin.. Testing of the faith is good.. that is what satan did to Jesus.
He(satan) is the tempter of Jesus which Jesus overcomes the enemy
He( satan ) leads Judas to betray Jesus
He leads peter to deny Jesus
He Leads ananias to sin
His Prime target is you and me
Yes according to scripture to live is Christ and to die is gain. meaning we must live like Christ ( serve, take our scars, take our wounds, ect. ) and die is gain... wouldn't you agree to these statements?
"1. Qull huwa Allahu ahad Allahu alssamad Lam yalid walam yoolad Walam yakun lahu kufuwan ahad"
Say: He is Allah the One and Only Allah, the Eternal Absolute He begetteth not nor is He begotten And there is none like unto Him.
(112)
well actually Jesus vaguely said He was God and strongly said that He was Lord.
these verses from John chapter 8 shows Jesus calling Himself God vaguely
verse 23-24 --- You are from below, I am from above, you are of this world: I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I AM, you will indeed die in your sins.
QUOTE]
Bismillah
Peace.
All of the proof that you have provided can be refuted solely by using your own text. I can also provide many proofs that Jesus (peace be upon him) denied being G-d , the MOST HIGH. All that you listed were implicit statements, that do not prove He (peace be upon him) was G-d, the MOST HIGH. Verses used out of context can mean anything one wants it to mean.
verses that I used out of context? you can easily see that I used these verses in the rightfully context.. maybe you should read the verses IN CONTEXTS. and tell me what you think.
I would like to see what are the verses where He denied being God.
is Jesus the son of God, or the part of 'three in one' God? this is really unclear
Jesus is the Word of God incarnated. which makes Him God. like I posted in my posts...
Jesus is not the LITERAL Son of God like a Child is to a FATHER and MOTHER
the Term Son of God means Close... Jesus is Close to God.. because Christ died on the Cross we are able to be close to God.
the Word is God since the Word is Part of God. the Word is seated at the Right Hand of God and will come again ( I am not saying that He will come agian to argue that He is coming again.. Oh NO... I am telling you this to help you understand what the Term Son of GOd means )
Jesus is the Word of God incarnated. which makes Him God. like I posted in my posts...
Jesus is not the LITERAL Son of God like a Child is to a FATHER and MOTHER
the Term Son of God means Close... Jesus is Close to God.. because Christ died on the Cross we are able to be close to God.
the Word is God since the Word is Part of God. the Word is seated at the Right Hand of God and will come again ( I am not saying that He will come agian to argue that He is coming again.. Oh NO... I am telling you this to help you understand what the Term Son of GOd means )
then you say he is ClOSE to GOD.....if hes GOD how could he die????
let alone by his own creation?????
the QURAN is the word of GOD, Does that make it GOD NOW???
"1. Qull huwa Allahu ahad Allahu alssamad Lam yalid walam yoolad Walam yakun lahu kufuwan ahad"
Say: He is Allah the One and Only Allah, the Eternal Absolute He begetteth not nor is He begotten And there is none like unto Him.
(112)
if hes GOD how could his own creation kill him ?????
ps. why would nicole have to explain something?? dont you know the answers to what your preaching??
"1. Qull huwa Allahu ahad Allahu alssamad Lam yalid walam yoolad Walam yakun lahu kufuwan ahad"
Say: He is Allah the One and Only Allah, the Eternal Absolute He begetteth not nor is He begotten And there is none like unto Him.
(112)
if hes GOD how could his own creation kill him ?????
ps. why would nicole have to explain something?? dont you know the answers to what your preaching??
yes I did say that.. the term Son of God really shows how close He is to God..
The Word is God its Always been around. I guess picture you on your chair and you are speaking- now some how you are able to incarnate those words into flesh that would make the incarnated words... you.
yes I did say that.. the term Son of God really shows how close He is to God..
The Word is God its Always been around. I guess picture you on your chair and you are speaking- now some how you are able to incarnate those words into flesh that would make the incarnated words... you.
ok you make no sense friend, you say it shows how close he is to GOD,
then you say he is GOD? thats not maken sense....
"1. Qull huwa Allahu ahad Allahu alssamad Lam yalid walam yoolad Walam yakun lahu kufuwan ahad"
Say: He is Allah the One and Only Allah, the Eternal Absolute He begetteth not nor is He begotten And there is none like unto Him.
(112)
ok you make no sense friend, you say it shows how close he is to GOD,
then you say he is GOD? thats not maken sense....
the Term Son of God- shows how close the Word of God is... whe people used Son of whatever. it wasnt stating that they were literally the Son of that whatever... I believe in the quran it states that there was someone that was Son of the Road...
may I asked you what the Son of the road means?
God and the Word are totally different essences... but God incarnated His Word into Flesh in which his Word is also God.. since the Word belongs to God
you say"yes I did say that.. the term Son of God really shows how close He is to God.."
you say also "which makes Him God"
uhh that is a contradiction....he close to GOD, but then hes GOD ???
which one is it??
you also say ." God and the Word are totally different essences... but God incarnated His Word into Flesh in which his Word is also God.. since the Word belongs to God...
wheres your proof??
"1. Qull huwa Allahu ahad Allahu alssamad Lam yalid walam yoolad Walam yakun lahu kufuwan ahad"
Say: He is Allah the One and Only Allah, the Eternal Absolute He begetteth not nor is He begotten And there is none like unto Him.
(112)
[U]According to the Bible the Word of God is living... is the Quran living or is it dead? if its dead then infact no it isn't God..
Al-Quran is Kalamullah. It's Speech of God. How can you equate speech with the speaker? A speech is a speech and not the speaker. If I say, "Hello" does this mean "Hello" is me? I'm a human, can I possibly be a word, book or sentence? Except you're speaking metaphorically, that is, to read a person like a book.
My previous discussion with brother Ansar Al-`Adl helped me explaining about the Quran as the Word of God and its position in book form.
A book is an actual form in which words are recorded. A book containing the words of God denotes a book which ahs characters and symbols which collectively represent the words of God. But no one records words in the form of living things. A person is not like a book that can be recited.
But anyway, the major point is this: Christians don't just say that Christ is the word of God, they say that Christ IS God. Muslims on the other hand never claimed that the Qur'an is God!
Al-Quran is Kalamullah. It's Speech of God. How can you equate speech with the speaker? A speech is a speech and not the speaker. If I say, "Hello" does this mean "Hello" is me? I'm a human, can I possibly be a word, book or sentence? Except you're speaking metaphorically, that is, to read a person like a book.
Well you are a human like you say...but God is not...anything is possible for God...Gods' word is Jesus who He made into flesh..to live amongst us.
Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.'")
God turned his own living word into flesh.
Jesus (Word) was in God from the very beginning also Gods Spirit..who we now have indwellling in us, the gift of Gods' Holy Spirit.
JohnJoh 14:9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
Joh 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me?
Because Jesus is Gods word...Jesus (word) only speaks what God says. It is God who is speaking.
The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.
The works Jesus did could have only been done by the father...no human could have done this things. Only God.
Joh 14:12 "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father.
Joh 14:13 Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.
Joh 14:15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
Is.7:14-15.
"The Lord himself, therefore, will give you a sign. It is this: the maiden is with child and will soon give birth to a son whom she will call Immanuel."
Immanuel or Emmanuel or Imanu'el (עִמָּנוּאֵל "God [is] with us",)
God foretold us He was going to dwell on earth with mankind.
Mat 1:20 But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "
Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
Mat 1:21 She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins."
Mat 1:22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet:
Mat 1:23
"Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel" (which means, God with us).
i refuse to beleive any word from the bible, becuase it has been altered, and thats a fact...
and why would GOD let Jesus die.....
ok so nicola, you established that jesus is not GOD, rather his WORD...? correct??
p.s, do you think JESUS 9p) was white?? or what nationality
Last edited by abdul Majid; 03-27-2006 at 08:03 PM.
"1. Qull huwa Allahu ahad Allahu alssamad Lam yalid walam yoolad Walam yakun lahu kufuwan ahad"
Say: He is Allah the One and Only Allah, the Eternal Absolute He begetteth not nor is He begotten And there is none like unto Him.
(112)
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Did Jesus (p) Deny Being God? (OP)
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what does the trinity mean then
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