Many people tell us "but the Bible clearly says that Jesus is the Son of God. How can you say that Jesus is not God's only begotten son when Jesus says it so clearly in black and white in the Bible?" Well, first of all, as seen in the previous section, we first need to know the language of his people, the language of the Jews to whom he was speaking. Let us see how they understood this proclamation.
Let us begin by asking: How many sons does the Bible tell us that God Almighty has?
Jacob is God's son and firstborn: "Israel is my son, even my firstborn" Exodus 4:22.
Solomon is God's son "He shall build an house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son": 2 Samuel 7:13-14.
Ephraim is God's firstborn: "for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn" Jeremiah 31:9 (who is God's firstborn? Israel or Ephraim?).
Adam is the son of God "Adam, which was the son of God" Luke 3:38.
Common people (you and me) are the sons of God:
"Ye are the children of the LORD your God" Deuteronomy 14:1.
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God" Romans 8:14.
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name" John 1:12.
"That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15.
"Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: ... now are we the sons of God" 1 John 3:1-2.
"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" Job 38:7.
"Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD," Job 2:1.
"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD," Job 1:6.
"when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men," Genesis 6:4.
"That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair" Genesis 6:2
As we can see, the use of the term "son of God" when describing normal human beings was not at all an uncommon practice among Jesus' people.
Well then, was Jesus the only begotten son of God? Read Psalms 2:7 : "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me (King David, King), Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee"
Indeed, the Jews are even referred to as much more than this in the Bible, and this is indeed the very trait which Jesus (pbuh) held against them. When the Jews picked up stones to stone Jesus (pbuh) he defended himself with the following words
"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, 'I said, Ye are gods?' If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken..." John 10:34:
(he was referring to Psalms 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High..") As we can see from these and many other verses like them, "son of God" in the language of the Jews was a very innocent term used to describe a loyal servant of God. Whether the translators and editors chose to write it as "Son of God" (with a capital S) in reference to Jesus and "son of God" (with a small S) in reference to everyone else does not diminish the fact that in the original language, both cases are exactly the same. Are we beginning to see what drove the most learned men of the Anglican Church to recognize the truth? But let us move on.
Grolier's encyclopedia, under the heading "Jesus Christ," says:
"During his earthly life Jesus was addressed as rabbi and was regarded as a prophet. Some of his words, too, place him in the category of sage. A title of respect for a rabbi would be "my Lord." Already before Easter his followers, impressed by his authority, would mean something more than usual when they addressed him as "my Lord.".... it is unlikely that the title "Son of David" was ascribed to him or accepted by him during his earthly ministry. "Son of God," in former times a title of the Hebrew kings (Psalms 2:7), was first adopted in the post-Easter church as an equivalent of Messiah and had no metaphysical connotations (Romans 1:4). Jesus was conscious of a unique filial relationship with God, but it is uncertain whether the Father/Son language (Mark 18:32; Matt. 11:25-27 par.; John passim) goes back to Jesus himself" .
There seems to be only two places in the Bible where Jesus (pbuh) refers to himself as "son of God." They are in John chapters 5 and 11. Hastings in "The dictionary of the Bible" says: "Whether Jesus used it of himself is doubtful." Regardless, we have already seen what is meant by this innocent title. However, Jesus is referred to as the "son of Man" (literally: "Human being") 81 times in the books of the Bible. In the Gospel of Barnabas, we are told that Jesus (pbuh) knew that mankind would make him a god after his departure and severely cautioned his followers from having anything to do with such people.
Jesus was not the son of a human man (according to both the Bible and the Qur'an). However, we find him constantly saying "I am the son of man." Why?. It was because in the language of the Jews, that is how you say "I am a human being."
What was he trying to tell us by constantly repeating and emphasizing to us throughout the New Testament "I am a human being," "I am a human being," "I am a human being"?. What had he foreseen? Think about it!.
Do Christians emphasize this aspect of Jesus? The New Testament Greek word translated as "son" are "pias" and "paida" which mean "servant," or "son in the sense of servant." These are translated to "son" in reference to Jesus and "servant" in reference to all others in some translations of the Bible (see below). As we are beginning to see, one of the most fundamental reasons why Jesus (pbuh) is considered God is due to extensive mistranslation. We shall see more and more examples of this throughout this book.
Islam teaches that Jesus (pbuh) was a human being, not a God. Jesus (peace be upon him) continually emphasized this to his followers throughout his mission. The Gospel of Barnabas also affirms this fact. Once again, Grolier's encyclopedia says:
"...Most problematical of all is the title "Son of Man." This is the only title used repeatedly by Jesus as a self-designation, and there is no clear evidence that it was used as a title of majesty by the post-Easter church. Hence it is held by many to be authentic, since it passes the criterion of dissimilarity."
Written by : Misha'al ibn Abdullah, 'What Did Jesus Really Say?'
Ninth Scribe, I've been on sites where people discuss it and the same people into it seems to be into Wicca stuff aswell, anyhow, if you can teach me it (i'm learning irfan and inshallah don't and won't deny spiritual truths and love of knowledge of the self, believe everything has a spirit etc), but kabala to me seems to have an outside look of spirituality but when actually getting into it, to me it looks like it get's you further away from God and into dark paths, I might misunderstand alot of it but it might just the people I met
You seem to be a monothiest with strong faith, so I would like to hear it from you, if you don't like doing that on the forum, perhaps pm me
if kabala is mystic teachings of knowledge, then it is the equivalent to sufism in sunni islam and irfan in shia islam, but to me so far it seems it is just the opposite of that
Matthew 9:15
Jesus answered, "How can the guests of the bridegroom mourn while he is with them? The time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them; then they will fast.
John 3:29
The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom's voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete.
Revelation 19:7
Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory for the wedding of the Lamb has come and his bride has made herself ready
Revelation 21:2
I saw the Holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
Revelation 21:9
One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, "come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the lamb."
Well, this borders on plagiarism... but what can I say? It isn't uncommon for Christian writers to do this, but it all comes out over time... wow!
ur makin life difficult lol, lets take it in the literal sence shall we and its NONE
In the literal sense, there is no son of God. This was a metaphorical title and it caused a world of confusion, so it doesn't surprize me one single bit that God would ask his last prophet, Mohammed (PBUH), to put an end to all the confusion. I just didn't appreciate the cursing part.
But shame on the scribes who put words into the mouth of Jesus - because Jesus understood the metaphorical and poetic title... and, as I mentioned earler to the Christians who cited the Book of John... John understood this title as well.
Ninth Scribe
Last edited by Ninth_Scribe; 05-10-2006 at 05:42 PM.
if jesus is god then when mary was pregnant with jesus who was ruling the earth...... that wat i dont get.and other thing how can jesus be the god and the son at the same time .. can someone explian that to me, salam
if jesus is god then when mary was pregnant with jesus who was ruling the earth...... that wat i dont get.and other thing how can jesus be the god and the son at the same time .. can someone explian that to me, salam
This wouldn't be so confusing if people didn't mix the records up in the first place. The term 'Son of God' was given by one tribe, who no longer even exists, to the priests who were 'educated' (eg: had 40 or more years of learning). In ancient Judean records, this title appears for many different people... who were 40 years old. The tribe who used the title collapsed after the Assyrians conquered Israel and the term was only 'shadowed' into other works from then on.
It was, however, continued in other forms such as the requirements Judean men have to be able to satisfy if they want to access certain teachings. I gave one example as Kabala... but there are plenty of others that REQUIRE a male to be married and 40 years old. These 'requirements' came from the records of the Bene Elohim, but they don't use that term anymore - not surprizing, since it's caused so much confusion and aggevation.
The part specifically about Jesus being born on December 25th, from a virgin, having 12 disciples, dying and then ressurecting himself after a Last Supper, etc. - all that came from Mithras, an ancient Persian Sun God. The story is identical down the line in terms of those attributes but Mithras pre-dates the record of Jesus by at least 150 years... some speculate 400 years.
Anyway, that Persian God was adopted by the Romans (who have a thing for artistic traditions) and they re-named him Sol Invictus. Constantine was a follower of this Sol Invictus for most of his life. He later adopted Christianity, the teachings of Jesus and became infatuated with the records concerning his birth. So much so that he went off on a quest to find it, and any other facts. That one eluded him though, so he gave the story of Sol Invictus (Mithras) to Jesus, along with the Temple he owned (which is now called the Vatican), so he could offer a more fitting tradition to Jesus. I honestly don't think he realized how much trouble and confusion this would cause later on - but here we all are
There's been alot of this going on... 2500 years worth, but I'm trying to sort it all out. Don't see how one lifetime is enough, but we'll see what we can do. I will say one thing for certain. None of this is worth dying over... the perceived 'differences' are only human.
Ninth Scribe
Last edited by Ninth_Scribe; 05-15-2006 at 04:16 PM.
ur makin life difficult lol, lets take it in the literal sence shall we and its NONE
Deal... in the 'literal' sense, no, God did not have a son.
This was poetic license once upon a time and it shouldn't have been cause for an continued argument, save perhaps for the Christians who adopted the phrase and took it in the literal sense. I have their records too and I know how this all began. This is why I can't go into a Christian church... they make everyone recite the Nicene Creed and I won't do that to Jesus.
The dead can't defend themselves, but there's always the living who can... if they so desire
God or Jesus Christ is the head of the Church- we are the body of the Church ( of course I mean the Christians ) ( sons of God ) we are adopted while Jesus Christ always was since He is our (The Son of God) Head..
Christains believe that God impregnated Mary thereby producing the child Jesus.
This means God had a son.
Muslims are supposed to respect others beliefs even if you do not agree. But I do not see any of that.
-
Neither do I, when people who take acid on Sunday, jump off buildings because they think they can fly. I mean, respect is something that has to be earned and fiction isn't the best way to go about it. I don't see how breaking all the known laws that were invoked when the world was created, would do anything other than confuse people. So, no... I don't believe God, by any name... would do such a thing as that. I also take into consideration that if he wouldn't do it once, he certainly wouldn't do it three times! I have three separate records of this, from different times and places... Jesus was not the only 'virgin' birth record in existence... so I do smell a... rat.
Ninth Scribe
Last edited by Ninth_Scribe; 05-17-2006 at 04:11 PM.
Isn't asking questions the only road to knowledge? Of course people will always have hidden agenda's and try to convince the other person they are right. But I don't think you should call a search of arguments against christianity mean. Especially not when it happens on an Islamic forum in teh comparative religion section. By the way, for what purpose do you think most atheists and christians are visiting this section of the forum anyway?
Do you expect us to close our minds just so we wouldn't say anything that compromises someone elses religion?
Isn't asking questions the only road to knowledge? Of course people will always have hidden agenda's and try to convince the other person they are right. But I don't think you should call a search of arguments against christianity mean. Especially not when it happens on an Islamic forum in teh comparative religion section. By the way, for what purpose do you think most atheists and christians are visiting this section of the forum anyway?
Do you expect us to close our minds just so we wouldn't say anything that compromises someone elses religion?
Thank you. I have no religion and was never educated in religious literature until 1999, so my approach is justified. I will not allow the sons of Abraham to tear me into pieces over their disputes, especially considering that most of these are caused by silly misunderstandings, and I will not allow them to force me to 'choose sides' over who has their records kept in the best order. Trust me, none of this is pretty. It's ALL or NOTHING time folks.
But an axiom is God's law and transcends things like race, religion, sex and species... if one is broken, the world will perish since it's very existence relies on them! Birth and Death are axioms (God's law)... the only way in and out of this... place. No exceptions.
Sorry if I seem harsh, but I have bigger problems to deal with than this. As I mentioned before, the sons of Benjamin and Judah (the Jews) have invoked an ancestral claim to the land of Israel - when their claim should not have extended beyond Judea... a FACT that can be proven by Ezra's (Uzayr's) own records. This, by the way, is part of Al Qaeda's complaint and has to be addressed because that many people will DIE over it - if it isn't heard and fully understood.
I thought I had this worked out, but I ran into new problem... over another term... one that actually does confuse me.
What is an Israeli-Arab?
Ninth Scribe
Last edited by Ninth_Scribe; 05-18-2006 at 03:20 PM.
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أم ذي عينين كبيرين 
صفية و عمر 
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Re: How many 'Sons' does God have?
lol, lets take it in the literal sence shall we and its NONE 
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