Your desires? or Your actions?

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nimrod

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There is scripture saying that if you lust in your heart, then you are just as guilty as the one who acted on those desires, even though you never followed through on your desires.

To put it in modern terms:

If you call for the death of someone, then you are just as guilty, in your heart, as the one that killed that someone.

Do you agree?

Thanks
Nimrod
 
There is a major difference between desiring something and acting upon those desires,
thats what separates us from criminals.

Lusting and having murderous thoughts are part and parcel of being human, what actions we take or dont take after that.. is what defines whether we are bad or not, God being the all Wise does not hold us guilty of crimes we havent put into action..

must find some Quran and hadith sources..
 
Volumn 008, Book 076, Hadith Number 498. (Bukhari)
-----------------------------------------
Narated By Ibn 'Abbas : The Prophet narrating about his Lord I'm and said, "Allah ordered (the appointed angels over you) that the good and the bad deeds be written, and He then showed (the way) how (to write). If somebody intends to do a good deed and he does not do it, then Allah will write for him a full good deed (in his account with Him); and if he intends to do a good deed and actually did it, then Allah will write for him (in his account) with Him (its reward equal) from ten to seven hundred times to many more times: and if somebody intended to do a bad deed and he does not do it, then Allah will write a full good deed (in his account) with Him, and if he intended to do it (a bad deed) and actually did it, then Allah will write one bad deed (in his account)."

Hope that helps.
 
muslim_friend said:
Volumn 008, Book 076, Hadith Number 498. (Bukhari)
-----------------------------------------
Narated By Ibn 'Abbas : The Prophet narrating about his Lord I'm and said, "Allah ordered (the appointed angels over you) that the good and the bad deeds be written, and He then showed (the way) how (to write). If somebody intends to do a good deed and he does not do it, then Allah will write for him a full good deed (in his account with Him); and if he intends to do a good deed and actually did it, then Allah will write for him (in his account) with Him (its reward equal) from ten to seven hundred times to many more times: and if somebody intended to do a bad deed and he does not do it, then Allah will write a full good deed (in his account) with Him, and if he intended to do it (a bad deed) and actually did it, then Allah will write one bad deed (in his account)."

Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

I've been taught this too. Allah is the most merciful.
 
yea thought are thoughts, i can think about alot of things i would like to do but know are wrong so i do not do them, to be punished for desires that you do not act on would be sick.
 
Muslim Friend, “and if somebody intended to do a bad deed and he does not do it”.

Do the reasons a person didn’t complete the deed have a bearing on the final ruling of guilt or innocence of the offender?

To be a bit plainer spoken, if a person dies, hoping for the death of another (even though they never did the deed-so to speak) are they as guilty as the one who “did the deed”?

Thanks
Nimrod
 
nimrod said:
Muslim Friend, “and if somebody intended to do a bad deed and he does not do it”.

Do the reasons a person didn’t complete the deed have a bearing on the final ruling of guilt or innocence of the offender?

To be a bit plainer spoken, if a person dies, hoping for the death of another (even though they never did the deed-so to speak) are they as guilty as the one who “did the deed”?

Thanks
Nimrod
Click to expand...

non facit reum nisii mens sit rea
 
nimrod said:
Muslim Friend, “and if somebody intended to do a bad deed and he does not do it”.

Do the reasons a person didn’t complete the deed have a bearing on the final ruling of guilt or innocence of the offender?

To be a bit plainer spoken, if a person dies, hoping for the death of another (even though they never did the deed-so to speak) are they as guilty as the one who “did the deed”?

Thanks
Nimrod
Click to expand...


yea but ughh this is confusing, wishing death on someone and a desire like i want to have a drink (alcohol),are two different things, which is something i might think about and desire sometimes even though i do not drink anymore.:hiding:
 
nimrod said:
Muslim Friend, “and if somebody intended to do a bad deed and he does not do it”.

Do the reasons a person didn’t complete the deed have a bearing on the final ruling of guilt or innocence of the offender?

To be a bit plainer spoken, if a person dies, hoping for the death of another (even though they never did the deed-so to speak) are they as guilty as the one who “did the deed”?

Thanks
Nimrod
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, but I don't know the answer to ur last question.. regarding bad intention at the time of death. Perhaps someone else will answer.

There are so many possible situations(like the one you mentioned).I think that a correct statement may or may not be generally acceptable.From what little i can understand is that, according to the hadith Allah rewards the one who intends to do good because, he did not do it.Also Intending to do something and doing something are different.Allah knows best.bad intentions and its opposite actions do not go hand in hand in Islam.we must understand this is hypocrisy.Allah knows best.
 
Crystal for Peace, “to be punished for desires that you do not act on would be sick”.

The question then becomes:

Do the reasons for not acting on your desires become the final rule in judging you?

Did you not act because you were fearful of the punishment, yet you wanted to act?

You followed the Law.

Or

Did you not act because you understood that your desire was contrary to God’s desires, and therefore your desires were less than proper and you needed to change your thinking?

You are being judged by grace.

To be a bit plainer spoken, which “saves”, following the letter of the Law, or, the intent of the Law?

Thanks
Nimrod
 
In Islam... having bad/evil intentions/niah.... is not a sin...
until it turns into actions...(then only it counted as sin)

but if you have good intentions/niah ... Allah will reward you.
 
nimrod said:
Crystal for Peace, “to be punished for desires that you do not act on would be sick”.

The question then becomes:

Do the reasons for not acting on your desires become the final rule in judging you?

Did you not act because you were fearful of the punishment, yet you wanted to act?

You followed the Law.

Or

Did you not act because you understood that your desire was contrary to God’s desires, and therefore your desires were less than proper and you needed to change your thinking?

You are being judged by grace.

To be a bit plainer spoken, which “saves”, following the letter of the Law, or, the intent of the Law?

Thanks
Nimrod
Click to expand...

The answers cannot be asked simply, but did i not act for the following reasons that you stated above? with me its a combination of things including looking back on the actions i used to do and how they did nothing good, only brought negativity and because of this i know why certain things are prohibited in Islam. It makes perfect sense that it is better not to drink etc. This may have not answered you, but its all i can say
 
Islam=Action+Intention.

Unfortunately, just because of this, a few muslims today are divided into groups. They take either action or intention as a method of following the religion and leave out the rest.

103.001
YUSUFALI: By (the Token of) Time (through the ages),
PICKTHAL: By the declining day,
SHAKIR: I swear by the time,

103.002
YUSUFALI: Verily Man is in loss,
PICKTHAL: Lo! man is a state of loss,
SHAKIR: Most surely man is in loss,

103.003
YUSUFALI: Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.
PICKTHAL: Save those who believe and do good works, and exhort one another to truth and exhort one another to endurance.
SHAKIR: Except those who believe and do good, and enjoin on each other truth, and enjoin on each other patience.

Hope that helps.
 
North Malaysian,” non facit reum nisii mens sit rea”.

English might be helpful.

'Actus non facit reum, nisi mens sit rea '- 'An act does not make a person legally liable unless the mind is legally blameworthy'.

So according to your post the “Law” doesn’t save, it is the “Intent” that saves?
(Assuming you weren’t trying to muddy the waters with a discussion of the insanity defense)

Thanks
Nimrod
 
nimrod said:
North Malaysian,” non facit reum nisii mens sit rea”.

English might be helpful.

'Actus non facit reum, nisi mens sit rea '- 'An act does not make a person legally liable unless the mind is legally blameworthy'.

So according to your post the “Law” doesn’t save, it is the “Intent” that saves?
(Assuming you weren’t trying to muddy the waters with a discussion of the insanity defense)

Thanks
Nimrod
Click to expand...

;D ;D Somebody do learn the law, here. Nice to know one.

Actually i just want to say that the person who want other innocent people to die is insane.:p
 
nimrod said:
There is scripture saying that if you lust in your heart, then you are just as guilty as the one who acted on those desires, even though you never followed through on your desires.

To put it in modern terms:

If you call for the death of someone, then you are just as guilty, in your heart, as the one that killed that someone.

Do you agree?

Thanks
Nimrod
Click to expand...


Since others have already pointed out the way Islam stands on this, alow me to take a difrent aproach and counter your question by some other questions.
WHat level of control do you have over your thoughts? You can supress an urge to be acted upon, but can you surpress a thought from being thought up ofr even suggested? Do you, or any person for that matter control both the methods of thought generating as well as enough dicipline to keep certain thoughts from being created in your mind? Aren't we "wired" in a way that certain events stimulate certain thoughts?
And more importantly, would a just God hold us responsible for the things we do not have a saying in? Well obviously we do have some level of control. I guess a lot depends on exactly what you mean by a desire. Is this something recurrent you indulge thinking about, or somthing that rushes into your mind for a split second?
 
Hi,
Just glancing through the thread, there are a number of different points that I wanted to comment on:
-about the hadith of intentions, if one intends to do a good deed, one is rewarded. If one does a good deed they are rewarded even more. One is also rewarded if they intend to do a bad deed but restrain themselves and do not do it. So if they think about drinking alcohol but then they repel the thought and abandon the notion, they are rewarded for repelling evil thoughts. However, if one intends to drink alcohol and it just so happens that the bar is closed, they are not rewarded in this case because it was only the circumstances that prevented them from doing it.

-sins are not all the same. While the lustful look is definitely sinful, going even further is, according to common sense, even more sinful. However all are sins. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Prescribed for the son of Adam is his portion of adultery which he must inevitably acquire. The adultery of the eyes is the glance. The adultery of the ears is listening. The adultery of the tongue is speech. The adultery of the hand is the grasp. The adultery of the foot is the step. The heart yearns and desires. The private parts then either act on this or deny it.” [Sahîh al-Bukhârî and Sahîh Muslim]

- and as an aside, insanity is recognized in Islam. The Prophet of Allah (peace be upon him) said: “The pen is lifted from three people: the sleeper until he awakens, the child until he reaches the age of discernment, and the insane until he is able to reason.” [ Sunan al-Tirmidhî (1423) and Sunan Ibn Mâjah (2042)]
nimrod said:
To put it in modern terms:

If you call for the death of someone, then you are just as guilty, in your heart, as the one that killed that someone.
Click to expand...
There is some ambiguity in the statement. If one has the desire to murder an innocent in their heart, then if they repel such an evil desire they are rewarded as mentioned earlier.

Peace.
 
i would agree with islam on this one. you are human and not a saint so you will have bad thoughts, but it is what you do that matters.
 

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