Shalom (Peace), and welcome to the "Questions about Judaism answered by a Jew!" thread. I am sorry to inform you that not many Jews post on this forum so we are very tied up in trying to reveal what Judaism is to Muslims, so we can establish a bond of common understanding. Below is a list of commonly asked questions which we have answered:
lavikor201, I hope I do not offend you, and we will all look foward to your awnser, but I can awnser this one to.
I am an Orthodox Jew, and I have already read in this thread that lavikor201 is an Orthodox Jew also.
Both are recongnized I guess.
I mean Orthodox Judaism is the following of all of the 613 Mitvot of the Torah, while Reform Judaism is a much more liberal movement, which does not keep all of the laws, and believes that the laws are outdated.
They still practice Judaism and are considered to Jews, but are a little 'lost' in there teachings.
Again lavikor201, I hope you do not see this as me 'hijacking' your thread and if you do not want me to awnser questions than just say so and I won't.
Salaam,
Umm when you say LOST can you be more specific?
What are the deviations.
Aside form teh way they pray ,the syangogue of an orthodox and a reform jews are differnt.
But what about idealogy?
In the past only the direct ancestor of Moses are the High Priest,so do you now have a HIGH PRIEST? Is that right?
But i saw marches where such things as "Zionism is not Judaism" and "No zionism = peace" and these slogans where prtrayed by Jews
The third oath with G-d states that the Jews could not come back to the Holy Land in mass unless they were persecuted by nations run by gentiles(nonjews)
The Holocaust which killed 1/3 of all Jews on earth counts as persecution...
The Jews who are anti-zionist lived in areas where they were not persecuted and effected at all by the holocaust.
It is irrelevant, because the Jewish people were persecuted therefore allowing the Jews under Torah's law to go back to israel there rightful land.
Can the temple be a very big complex, where it's divided equally among Muslims and Jews, which they can pray together in the same building like the Hebron mosque?
I am not sure. I will check to see.
Umm when you say LOST can you be more specific?
As in, a little confused about Judaism. Compare to as when a child does something wrong but he does not realize it.
the syangogue of an orthodox and a reform jews are differnt.
Not very different. The people in them are.
In the past only the direct ancestor of Moses are the High Priest,so do you now have a HIGH PRIEST? Is that right?
A Cohen who is an ancestor of Aaron is a 'high priest' but all they do is recite certain blessings on holy days and have special laws to follow, like they cannot enter a cemetary.
Who is the Shiloh?
Shiloh is a city.
Last edited by מדינת ישׂראל; 08-07-2006 at 02:31 PM.
was this third oath in the Torah? or the Talmud? or the Mishna?.... is it God that broke your covenant? are you allowed to question the plan of God and thereby take appropriate action? yet by the same token not even speak his name? I am a bit confused
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
was this third oath in the Torah? or the Talmud? or the Mishna?.... is it God that broke your covenant? are you allowed to question the plan of God and thereby take appropriate action? yet by the same token not even speak his name? I am a bit confused
I realize that a lot fo you are very interested in the political spectrum of the situation on the Middle East but I will give you a quick overview.
The third oath was that the Jews would stay in there countries and not go back in mass to the Holy Land unless they were being persecuted.
The Holocaust which killed 1/3 of every Jew on this earth is considered persecution if you did not know that. Therefore, the Jews were aloud to go back to the Holy Land.
Now Jews who disagree were mostly not effected by the Holocaust, but it is irelevant if they were effected by it or not. The Jewish people as a whole were persecuted therefore it was okay for them to leave there countries in Europe to go back to there ancestors land.
That is the explanation.
I think we should start directing this thread back to religion instead of politics now. Lavikor201 specifiacally stated he wanted no talk of Zionism, or Mideast politics in this thread.
Last edited by מדינת ישׂראל; 08-07-2006 at 03:31 PM.
Yes... I understand what you are saying.... however I'd like to know where you got this third oath from? as in which book? who wrote that? who promised you that? I know full heartedly no conclusions drawn here today would change world situation ... it is all inconsequential really.... I am however, very curious as to the origin of the oath ... and who broke that covenant for you? It is a simple request and doesn't merit that long a response.... Also when you mention ancestors ... whom are you talking about, surely Jacob whom we as Muslims attribute as Israel isn't the ancestor to more than 5% of modern day Jews ... as in those originally from the middle east ... without getting political again ... but just scientifically speaking ... the greater majority of Jews today are Ashkenazic.... European in origin... Pick any genetics book and it will speak of them you don't have to direct your attention to politics to have an understanding of that.... Do you think they too are entitled to flood the land of Cannan?
Last edited by جوري; 08-07-2006 at 04:28 PM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
surely Jacob whom we as Muslims attribute as Israel isn't the ancestor to more than 5% of modern day Jews ... as in those originally from the middle east ...
Do you know this for a fact? No you don't. Actually, DNA testing done by independant sources in the state of New York proves your theory wrong.
the greater majority of Jews today are Ashkenazi.... European in origin...
The Ashkenezi Jews were in Europe not because they originated there. Ashkenzi Jews were exiled to Europe when the land of Israel was conquered by pagans.
Ashenezi Jews were all originally from the Middle East.
World Jewry was completly from the Holy Land until the Kingdom of Israel was conquered.
So in reality, no matter where you were during the exile of Jews from Israel, all Jews origins are from the Middle East.
I believe the oaths were an oral covanent. Not sure where they were written, i'll check it out for you, and i'll post the verses when i find them.
Do you know this for a fact? No you don't. Actually, DNA testing done by independant sources in the state of New York proves your theory wrong..
Sure I do.... in fact that "independant testing verifies so... is a million science book incorrect? please tell me about Tay-Sachs Disease, Niemann-Pick disease and others that are exclusive to what we call european Jews... Do you want to go edit science books as well? so they would be on concert with your beliefs? Ashkenazics converted to judiasm around 7th century.studies which take into account Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) show no relation to middle eastern ethnic groups...
format_quote Originally Posted by מדינת ישׂראל
The Ashkenezi Jews were in Europe not because they originated there. Ashkenzi Jews were exiled to Europe when the land of Israel was conquered by pagans.
Ashenezi Jews were all originally from the Middle East.
World Jewry was completly from the Holy Land until the Kingdom of Israel was conquered.
So in reality, no matter where you were during the exile of Jews from Israel, all Jews origins are from the Middle East.
I believe the oaths were an oral covanent. Not sure where they were written, i'll check it out for you.
Ashkenazic Jews are descendants of Khazars, the land of Palestine was "supposedly" promised to the seed of Abraham. If one researches the Ancient Hebrew laws, the right of decent or inheritance is based on the eldest son, no matter whom the mother is. If this is the case, then the land was promised to Ishamel (for he was the eldest of Abraham's sons) and the Father of Palestinian Arabs. In addition,
modern day Jews from Russia, Poland and most parts of Eastern Europe have NO genetic link to the ancient Hebrews - they for the most part are decendents of Khazars, who converted to Judaism in the 7th century (this has been documented by Jewish scholars, not Arabs). The modern day Palestinians can claim a more direct link to the Hebrew tribes than the founders of modern day "Israel." What the Western Press purposely avoids mentioning is the fact that at the start of the 20th century, less than 5% of the land of Palestine was Jewish. The modern State of Israel was built on lands illegally taken and assimilated from Palestinian Christians and Muslims. Also, the Hebrews only ruled the land of Palestine for a combined 411 years - the Muslims have ruled the land for 1,500 years. In addition, the land of Canaan (Palestine) had a history long before the Jewish tribes immigrated to the area. There is still that fact of the third Oath... the rest of us need to see it... if the whole argument is based on it...
Also one last thing when Abraham (PBUH) burried Sarah he BOUGHT a land in which to bury her even though the locals offered it to him for free... if he owned the place why would he go to the trouble of making a purchase unless he wanted to make a point for generations to come? I realize nothing I say here is going to change what you believe... but if we are having an honest exchange.... this is how we see things......
kindest regards
Last edited by جوري; 08-07-2006 at 05:17 PM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
any way.. Jews direction is completely the opposite of ours since they do not face Al-Aqssa mosque.
when he says Jerusalem, he is pointing at the wailing wall... so basically they pray facing that wall and the Aqssa Mosque is completely behind their back...
if i'm wrong מדינת ישׂראל, please correct me..
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Jews have been praying towards Jerusalem before there was an 'Al-Asqa Mosque" and before there was a "Quran" for that matter.
It would be good to ask all of these questions in the actual "Q/A Judaism" thread guys!
Daah... i wasn't asking when or why..!!! i was explaining the differences between Muslims and Jews direction.
if Jews pray before Qur'an and Al-Aqssa Mosque towards that wall... that doesn't make Jews right... if that what you are trying to prove to me.
Sure I do.... in fact that "independant testing verifies so... is a million science book incorrect? please tell me about Tay-Sachs Disease, Niemann-Pick disease and others that are exclusive to what we call european Jews... Do you want to go edit science books as well? so they would be on concert with your beliefs? Ashkenazics converted to judiasm around 7th century.
Although the historical record itself is very limited, there is a consensus of cultural, linguistic, and genetic evidence that the Ashkenazi Jewish population originated in the Middle East. The first Jews were brought to Europe as slaves by the Roman Emporer Titus when Rome brutally put down an attempted rebellion in Judea. This event, commemorated on the Arch of Titus was a turning point for the Jewish community. Jews were brought as slaves to Rome, from which they eventually spread throughout Europe. When they arrived in northern France and the Rhineland sometime around 800-1000 CE, the Ashkenazi Jews brought with them both Rabbinic Judaism and the Babylonian Talmudic culture that underlies it. The Yiddish language, once spoken by the vast majority of Ashkenazi Jewry, is heavily influenced by Hebrew and Aramaic, but not by Greek or Latin. Recent research in human genetics has also demonstrated that a significant component of Ashkenazi ancestry is Middle Eastern.
modern day Jews from Russia, Poland and most parts of Eastern Europe have NO genetic link to the ancient Hebrews - they for the most part are decendents of Khazars, who converted to Judaism in the 7th century
Completly untrue.
The Yiddish language is compeltly based on Semetic languages of Hebrew and Aramaic.
The consensus of hundreds of genetic tests is that Ashkenazi Jews can almost all trace there histories to the Middle East.
There are records of Romans enslaving Jews and sending them to Europe as slaves under Titus.
Last edited by מדינת ישׂראל; 08-07-2006 at 05:28 PM.
Although the historical record itself is very limited, there is a consensus of cultural, linguistic, and genetic evidence that the Ashkenazi Jewish population originated in the Middle East. The first Jews were brought to Europe as slaves by the Roman Emporer Titus when Rome brutally put down an attempted rebellion in Judea. This event, commemorated on the Arch of Titus was a turning point for the Jewish community. Jews were brought as slaves to Rome, from which they eventually spread throughout Europe. When they arrived in northern France and the Rhineland sometime around 800-1000 CE, the Ashkenazi Jews brought with them both Rabbinic Judaism and the Babylonian Talmudic culture that underlies it. The Yiddish language, once spoken by the vast majority of Ashkenazi Jewry, is heavily influenced by Hebrew and Aramaic, but not by Greek or Latin. Recent research in human genetics has also demonstrated that a significant component of Ashkenazi ancestry is Middle Eastern.
Completly untrue.
research studies which take into account Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) show no relation to ashkenazics to those of middle eastern ethnic groups...Ashkenazi Jews are NOT from the middle east. Arthur Kustler -a Jewish writer- proved in his seminal survey called the 13th tribe, that Ashkenazi Jews are the people of Khazaar empire that existed in between Russia and Poland. In other words they never belonged to the middle east in the first place (ethnically speaking)
You don't have to take my word for it ... do your homework go to an encyclopedic source for that... don't do it from a political site which has something to gain .... also, "Completely untrue" doesn't cut without strong scientific based evidence.... I don't think you should take offense at something that questions your beliefs.... especially on the account of influence it has on the world and how the rest of the population needs to accommodate it.... Also still waiting for that "broken" 3rd law...... To please G-D truly please him ... one has to be accepting of the trials he afflicts us with ... in show of faith ... in show of patience ... with strong believe that he will keep his promise...... Not by doing his work for him......That to me anyhow shows defiance and lack of faith.....
kindest regards
Last edited by جوري; 08-07-2006 at 05:38 PM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Actually the Mitochondrial DNA studies basically proved my point that Ashkenazim Jews can almost all trace there history back to the Middle East.
A study of haplotypes of the Y chromosome, published in 2000, addressed the paternal origins of Ashkenazi Jews. Hammer et al[8] found that the Y chromosome of most Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews was of Middle Eastern origin, containing mutations that are also common among Palestinians and other Middle Eastern peoples, but uncommon in the general European population. This suggested that the male ancestors of the Ashkenazi Jews could be traced primarily to the Middle East.
More recent research indicates that a significant portion of Ashkenazi maternal ancestry is also of Middle Eastern origin. A 2006 study by Behar et al[10], based on haplotype analysis of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), suggested that about 40% of the current Ashkenazi population is descended matrilineally from just four women. These four "founder lineages" were "from a Hebrew/Levantine mtDNA pool" originating in the Middle East in the first and second centuries CE. According to the authors, "The observed global pattern of distribution renders very unlikely the possibility that the four aforementioned founder lineages entered the Ashkenazi mtDNA pool via gene flow from a European host population."
Sources
Hammer, M. F., A. J. Redd, E. T. Wood, M. R. Bonner, H. Jarjanazi, T. Karafet, S. Santachiara-Benerecetti, A. Oppenheim, M. A. Jobling, T. Jenkins, H. Ostrer, and B. Bonné-Tamir (May 9 2000). "Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
Behar, Doron M., Ene Metspalu, Toomas Kivisild, Alessandro Achilli, Yarin Hadid, Shay Tzur, Luisa Pereira, Antonio Amorim, Lluı´s Quintana-Murci, Kari Majamaa, Corinna Herrnstadt, Neil Howell, Oleg Balanovsky, Ildus Kutuev, Andrey Pshenichnov, David Gurwitz, Batsheva Bonne-Tamir, Antonio Torroni, Richard Villems, and Karl Skorecki (March 2006). "The Matrilineal Ancestry of Ashkenazi Jewry: Portrait of a Recent Founder Event". The American Journal of Human Genetics 78 (3): 487-97. PMID 16404693.
You can believe whatever you want but this is the end of the argument bcause it is becoming an argument. This is a Q/A thread.
I will now begin searching for the verse where the third oath is spoken about, since I have not even began to start yet since we have been speaking about genetics.
The Oaths are some where in the Talmud. I hope you apreciate what I am doing, I am literally skimming the whole talmud for you. lol.
Last edited by מדינת ישׂראל; 08-07-2006 at 05:58 PM.
yes I read that same wikipedia article.... not the most reliable of sources is it?.... be that as it may... it certainly will not change the condition of the world or what YOU BELIEVE you are entitled to.... you may take it back to the Q and A as you desire and yes it would be nice to see that third oath... though again imposing ones religious beliefs on others from what I have learned in this thread goes against Jewish teachings as your friend lavikor will have us believe?....
kindest regards
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
yes I read that same wikipedia article.... not the most reliable of sources is it?....
It is reliable when it shows the actual sources of the information that I provided for you below the article.
The National Academy of Sciences, and the American Journal of Human Genetics are very reliable sources.
though again imposing ones religious beliefs on others from what I have learned in this thread goes against Jewish teachings as your friend lavikor will have us believe?....
Am I imposing my religious beliefs on others? If so please tell me how.
I'm awnsering questions written by people here.
I didn't realize I was 'imposing' my beliefs on someone by awnsering the question someone asked me.
Anyone can write for wikipedia.... I can go publish a counter claim right now... I spent 13 years of my life doing science once written it will look as professional.... still questionable given my personal interest.... and the same goes for much of the articles flooding wikipedia now a days....
Imposing beliefs is the sense of entitlement to the Land of Canaan based solely on a broken covenant that can be traced back to your religious texts..... again one can easily counter claim simply stating, the Bible and the Quran abrogated all that was in the old testament and thus Jewish Law no longer applies... Do you understand? anyhow you can go back to teaching us about your religion.... no more topics on property short of the request to see that broken 3rd law....
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Do you think that the Jews were opressed 'to much' during the Holocaust where 1 out of ever 3 Jewish men women and children were murdered?
It is actually irrelavent what you think. This isn't a debate.
My claims are that the Holocaust violated the oath made to the Jews that they would not be opressed under gentile(nonjewish) rule.
My other claim is that The National Academy of Sciences, and the American Journal of Human Genetics are very reliable sources when it comes to confirmiming the fact that Ashkenazim Jews are descended from the Middle East.
You can leave this thread with any opinion you desire, but it is time to move on to other questions because I have to go, and I will hand this back off to lavikor201.
Last edited by מדינת ישׂראל; 08-07-2006 at 06:37 PM.
Do you think that the Jews were opressed 'to much' during the Holocaust where 1 out of ever 3 Jewish men women and children were murdered?
Doesn't really say anything about starting a secular state?Seems a bit archaic... considering the oppressors weren't idolaters....but believed in God? Again to us Israel is Jacob and his tribes.... so do you honestly think this applies to you?Is this from the torah?
thanks
kindest regards
p.s I stand corrected I just checked your link... it is from the Talmud not the Torah.. which was written by "jews" so it isn't the word of God by consensus ....
thanks for the link......... carry on with your discussion
Last edited by جوري; 08-07-2006 at 06:45 PM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Doesn't really say anything about starting a secular state?Seems a bit archaic... considering the oppressors weren't idolaters....but believed in God?
It depends what you interpret this to be.
Many of our Rabbi's conclude that Christianity is polythiesm.
The Trinity claims that G-d is in three parts (Holy Ghost, Father, Son)
The Trinity also claims that Jesus was G-d, which goes against Jewish Law.
The claim Christians make when it comes to them worshiping Jesus as a G-d, is in fact that Christians are 'idolators' to many of the Rabbi's.
Islam is actually considered one of the only fellow pure monothietic religions on earth by Judaism, and Rabbi's stress great respect for Islam for keeping there faith monotheistic, even though we believe there prophet was wrong.
Now were the Nazi's Chrstians or Idolators.... no one knows for sure, but we know Hitler was born into a Christian family.
Anyway, this is the Jewish awnser to your question.
I haven't read the entire thread (i don't have the time to read 12 pages right now, God Willing in the future) so forgive me for asking a question which has already been answered.
Q. Is there such thing as Hell in Judaism? I was involved in a discussion recently, and i used a verse out of the Jewish scriptures which mentioned the Day of Judgement, but was then told Jews do not believe in Hell. If you don't believe in Hell, then where do all the sinners and transgressors of God go?
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