Over the past couple of weeks, I have watched programmes from animal programmes to just day to day programmes where the theory of evolution is seen as fact. Switched on the tv and the usual ranting on about our "ancestors" etc.
My question why do you think something which is very doubtful and to this day remains a theory is pushed so heavily on us?
"Lo! the Hour is surely coming, there is no doubt thereof; yet most of mankind believe not." (Al-Ghafir:59)
It's a minor point on the pig-thing. They've done plenty of transplants with the heart of a pig. Chimps are supposed to be our closest genetic "kin", sharing more than ninety-nine percent of our genome, which minimizes the chance of rejection. But since they are an endangered species, that leaves heart xenotransplantation two options. One being the baboon and, yes.. as disguisting as it is to even think of having this animal's heart in me (let alone any animal's heart)... a pig (oink oink).
One of the problems holding back the use of other species to grow organs for transplant into humans is the presence of retroviruses (retroviruses have been much spoken about in this thread in their genomes that could activate in humans and cause a devastating infection. There is even a risk that such an infection could turn out to be transmissable to other humans. This problem has so far ruled out the use of other primate species as a source of organ transplants in spite of their greater genetic similarity to humans than is the case with other types of species.
Now unfortunately, the ridiculous idea of the baboons being our closest "kin" (), it poses risks of transmitting human pathogens (supposedly). However, it has been done before, several times, and the cause of rejection was not due to this factor. The real deal: not enough offspring. Long gestation periods. Not enough baboons! Since pigs are a dime a dozen.. BAM! Aparantly they pose concerns due to the fact that they are not closely related to us blah blah blah, HOWEVER, it has been proven that the pig heart has had fewer rejections.
Baboons are not our closest "kin" the Ape is? However, we share common ancestory with all primates which is proven by Retrovirus markers shared within our genes that clearly show lineage to primates.
Baboons are not our closest "kin" the Ape is? However, we share common ancestory with all primates which is proven by Retrovirus markers shared within our genes that clearly show lineage to primates.
Can you do me a favor. I don't subscribe to the theory of evolution but since I'm a member of this forum, your using WE or OUR would make me one of you.
Please rephrase your sentence like this.
Baboons are not MY closest "kin" the Ape is? However, I share common ancestory with all primates which is proven by Retrovirus markers shared within MY genes that clearly show lineage to primates.
I know it's not academic, but it's like when muslims say WE come from Adam, while maybe you're not particular about other people saying that you come from Adam, I am. Or, maybe I should just not read this thread, but it's so tempting.
Is there any post that deals with the purpose of this evolution, for example, I don't quite understand why, apes must have the eyes in front. Wouldn't it be more cool if the eyes are like lizards or gecko? I mean, why only TWO eyes? Why does the flimsly fly have all the eyes it wants?
I'd like to read explanation to these, if you guys have any. You don't have to answer in another post. Just give me the link.
Thanks, keep up the good job boys!
:thankyou:
Takumi Nakashima WattaquLlah(a) wa yu'allimukumuLlah(u)
(Be Mindful of Allah and He will teach you)
I share common ancestory with all primates which is proven by Retrovirus markers shared within MY genes that clearly show lineage to primates.
Why though would you want me to be under presumed ignorance. The fact that you have misfired Retrovirus DNA is in the exact same location as me, shows the exact corrupted sequence and shows the same degrading over time and further, your future offspring will also have them and so on. Clearly this is not individuality. Every human being on this planet has them in the exact same location as noted above.
Therefore to say "I" have them would not only be misleading but untruthfull.
Is there any post that deals with the purpose of this evolution, for example, I don't quite understand why, apes must have the eyes in front. Wouldn't it be more cool if the eyes are like lizards or gecko? I mean, why only TWO eyes? Why does the flimsly fly have all the eyes it wants?
I'd like to read explanation to these, if you guys have any. You don't have to answer in another post. Just give me the link.
A: The traditional idea is that the eyes evolved separately into separate animal phyla. An insect eye looks so different from a human eye that one would assume intuitively that this must have arisen quite differently in evolution. There was a separate sort of construction, which was invented differently from the human eye. In the squid, for example, the eye develops as an invagination of the skin; that is, the skin forms a little cavity, a little bulb, inside. In our case the brain forms an invagination, a bulb which is moving outwards, towards the skin. One traditionally thought that this would be a fundamental difference.
We come to a very different conclusion. We have found that there is the same underlying genetic basis in all animal phyla. You have the same genes that are involved in eye development. Therefore, we now consider it much more likely that the eye was sort of invented only once in evolution. Then the various animal phyla used this basic construction of a very simple eye to diverge and to make various forms of the eye.
Why though would you want me to be under presumed ignorance. The fact that you have misfired Retrovirus DNA is in the exact same location as me, shows the exact corrupted sequence and shows the same degrading over time and further, your future offspring will also have them and so on. Clearly this is not individuality. Every human being on this planet has them in the exact same location as noted above.
Therefore to say "I" have them would not only be misleading but untruthfull.
Untruthful is so subjective. But, your stand on this matter is duly noted.
While, I find it hard to believe, I welcome your reading and seemingly very informed posts. Kudos for that.
Now, with advances in DNA technology and whats not, do you think you can predict what you're future offsprings going to evolve to next? [while your notion of we all come from ape is accepted, I'm still hesitant to conform the word usage, I do hope you don't mind]
Forgive my ignorance. I'm just having my easy way out here.
Takumi Nakashima WattaquLlah(a) wa yu'allimukumuLlah(u)
(Be Mindful of Allah and He will teach you)
I'm sorry.. I apologize... my mistake on the baboon thing. However, I did state that the Chimpanzees are our closest genetic kin I think. I wrote that at like 1 in the morning, dude.... I was delirious. I ask you people to look past what you read about other people's research. I couldn't even fulfill my dream as a biologist because you can't get a degree when you pick and choose what you want to learn. And scientific classification is not one of the things I want to pay attention to. It's brainwashing. I just look at common sense, here. I see a lot of characteristics in the ape that is superior to the humans. I see a lot of creatures who show a lot of genetic similarity to the human, or a lot of creatures who are genetically similar to other creatures who arn't even classified as such. Why don't we see any valid evidence of the transitional beings that supposedly existed.. at all? Where did all this matter come from? What are the odds of such a coincidence to occur? And for those of you who believe in a God, why is it easier to believe that everything on the earth evolved from a single cell, a freakin' THEORY thought up by man, than to believe that God put creatures on this earth seperately? Because biology class told you that? Half of the things you learn in school are a pack of lies and that's a fact. Putting religious scriptures to the side, what about the concept, the theory (that I see as fact), that God put a man and a woman on this earth to procreate.
Oh and BY THE WAY... I ain't related to no chimp.
Last edited by Muhammad; 01-12-2006 at 11:27 AM.
Reason: posts merged
Could you tell us about some of the things you learned in school that were a pack of lies ?
I'm very astonished by your assertion because all I was taught in the French educational system always proved right.
Could you tell us about some of the things you learned in school that were a pack of lies ?
I'm very astonished by your assertion because all I was taught in the French educational system always proved right.
Dude that's a whole other discussion man. I just havn't got the energy. I've had a long day. I never went to school in France. But I'm guessing liars live in France too, the epidemic could have made it's way to your school, too. Just within the past 5 months my eyes were open to a lot of things. There are a lot of illusions in this life. I might sound like a conspiracy theorist right now lol. But it's true about the illusions. :yawn: oh: I'm tired, sir. Insha allah I'll be back on the board tomorrow like a bullfighter
Takumi - Now, with advances in DNA technology and whats not, do you think you can predict what you're future offsprings going to evolve to next? [while your notion of we all come from ape is accepted, I'm still hesitant to conform the word usage, I do hope you don't mind]
Takumi, I would like if I may to correct your thinking here. Evolution does not claim we came from ape, only we are a sub-species of primate. Nor are we evolved from Apes, but Humans & Apes evolved from a common ancestor.
Ah sub-species. One thing. Over the recent years i've learnt some stuff about evolution and basically a species evolves in order to adapts to it's surroundings e.g. it promotes it's survival. So, why would a species evolve into two sub-species? According to evolution, this shouldn't happen. Only the species (or in this case, sub-species) with the most beneficial adaptations should be alive. In this case, humans.
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
Takumi, I would like if I may to correct your thinking here. Evolution does not claim we came from ape, only we are a sub-species of primate. Nor are we evolved from Apes, but Humans & Apes evolved from a common ancestor.
Thanks, permission granted.
Well, I'd like to know how far such evolutionary process would go.
I mean, have the human eyes evolved perfectly? Can it be perfected?
I read the PBS article, yes, completely, I'm not quite sure why evolution chose the eyes to be on top of the head and in front. I mean, tigers have knows to attack from behind and people in India wear masks behind their head to look as if they have another face to prevent attacks.
Wouldn't it be cool if evolution help us in this? What kind of environment do you think will influence the evolutionary process further?
Oh ya, does the Origin of Species talk only about the evolution of animals. Do the sky, ocean, trees, grass, wind evolve too?
Sorry for all those questions. I'm just intrigued. Because it's hard for me to understand why nature only chooses animals (I bet DNA is so easy to manipulate) but leave the other elements as they are.
We could probably use fresh water more than salt water, now we gotta pay for fresh drinking water, or since the sun is so scorching hot in the savannah of Africa, I mean, why can't evolution expand its horizon a bit and make some clouds over there.
Oh ya, you haven't answered my question about, what would your progenies be? Are there any genetic research that use The Evolutionary theory and actually predict our future being, say in the year 4 million A.D?
Thanks.
Takumi Nakashima WattaquLlah(a) wa yu'allimukumuLlah(u)
(Be Mindful of Allah and He will teach you)
Oh ya, does the Origin of Species talk only about the evolution of animals. Do the sky, ocean, trees, grass, wind evolve too?
I'll leave the other questions for someone who is more knowledgeable about these matters than I am, but I can tell you that all plants and animals evolve, according to evolutionists. Evolution does not control the weather, unless you see climate change as a form of planetary evolution; basically it affects all living things.
I'll leave the other questions for someone who is more knowledgeable about these matters than I am, but I can tell you that all plants and animals evolve, according to evolutionists. Evolution does not control the weather, unless you see climate change as a form of planetary evolution; basically it affects all living things.
Peace
So, there's something that mother nature does not have control of?
Why in the world does mother nature has to "select" that primate to make us?
If it had chosen a bird, then we would have wings by now.
:grumbling
Takumi Nakashima WattaquLlah(a) wa yu'allimukumuLlah(u)
(Be Mindful of Allah and He will teach you)
So, there's something that mother nature does not have control of?
What does "mother nature" not have control over? What exactly do you mean by "mother nature", for that matter?
Why in the world does mother nature has to "select" that primate to make us?
If it had chosen a bird, then we would have wings by now.
The fact is we happen to be genetically very similar to apes. If we had evolved from birds, or shared a common ancestor with birds, we would be genetically similar to them.
In the light of this, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
Perhaps what Br. Takumi means (and I'm sure he will correct me if I'm wrong) is that why haven't any intelligent lifeforms evolved comparable to human beings yet with a difference ancestry (eg. from birds, from reptiles, from fish).
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]
What does "mother nature" not have control over? What exactly do you mean by "mother nature", for that matter?
The fact is we happen to be genetically very similar to apes. If we had evolved from birds, or shared a common ancestor with birds, we would be genetically similar to them.
In the light of this, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
Peace
Greetings!
sorry, I was using evolution and mother nature interchangeably. My bad.
We happen to be genetically very similar to apes? It was all merely fortuitous?
Why? why couldn't we have evolved from birds? What were the circumstances that lead to this "happen to be genetically" very similar to apes?
Will there be intelligent creatures from the birds in the future?
I just can't understand what the bru ha ha about evolution is. If people want to think that they are genetically similar to apes and EVOLVEd, let them be. I know don't. If they think I do, let them think that I do. They don't affect my thoughts and my actions. Those are mine alone.
Now, if you have kids, then you have to worry a bit because if you want your kids to belief what YOU belief then raise him/her yourself. Every religion or belief must have followers who made a conscious decisions. Let them be muslim, Catholic, Agnostic, Buddhist or Hindu. A child born into a muslim family will not inherit Islam. He/she will make that conscious decision when he's old enough. If your child does not accept Islam so what? He needs to make that choice himself, so that when he makes it he understands its implications. We'll have less muslims bombing buildings and killing people and being zealots.
My point is, as I see it, evolution fails to explain at least to me, why we, evolve from a primate. Who made this choice? The fact that we are here being intelligent and all and suddenly we found out, hey, we are actually genetically similar to ape and we might have evolved from a primate like the apes did, doesn't change the fact who we are. I mean to be politically correct, who I am.
Just like when people ask me, "according to your belief, will people of other religion go to the hell fire?" I don't have any problem in saying, Heck yeah! you are buddy, if you die in disbelief"
The get offended if I give them that answer, which I think, why would they get offended? I mean, it's MY belief. Hell fire is not in my control. Unless you belief in hell fire, you don't have anything to worry about, right? I am still going to respect you, I'm gonna tell you what my beliefs are to the core. If you disagree, that's your choice. It's not that I'm gonna burn you alive. I'm not going to comfort you by telling you that you're go to heaven because you're my friend. If you belief that I will go to hell fire, it's fine with me. Because I don't belief what YOU belief. But, we can still be friends, right? Because we're here now. We're not in the day hereafter yet. [that is if you belief that there is a day hereafter]
Wow, how did I get to this? Mods! Spare me your katanas! Please.
I'm just a simple guy, I call it when I see it. You might beg to differ, that's your choice. Right now for me evolution is just tripping big time. It may explain the physical changes that have occurred in order to adapt, but, I wonder, did the primate who was selected to evolve to us have feelings?
I mean, did it know happiness? or sadness? how about feeling angry? if the physical changes and emotional presence are proportional to each other, can I safely assume that that lousy primate (dang! I wish I had wings!!!),had very primitive feelings (wow, I wonder how to gauge that?) and then adapt so that in the year 2006 its progenies can take Xanax and antidepressants?
Well, forget about cytokines and all those hormonal changes that takes place during fright-flight, I know them already. I want to know how these primates (why? why?) respond to emotional stimulus.
any readings that you may suggest?
Peace
[like i tell my Church of the Latter Day Saints friends: I'm not going to convert, but you are most welcomed to come to my house and we can chat. I'd like that, after which they stopped coming. Go figure]
Last edited by Takumi; 01-14-2006 at 04:46 AM.
Takumi Nakashima WattaquLlah(a) wa yu'allimukumuLlah(u)
(Be Mindful of Allah and He will teach you)
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:yawn:
oh: I'm tired, sir. Insha allah I'll be back on the board tomorrow like a bullfighter
I'm not going to comfort you by telling you that you're go to heaven because you're my friend. If you belief that I will go to hell fire, it's fine with me. Because I don't belief what YOU belief. But, we can still be friends, right? Because we're here now. We're not in the day hereafter yet. [that is if you belief that there is a day hereafter]
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