Response to a stubborn disbeliever

**- Qatada -** · 08-19-2006

Question:

Did you know your religion was founded and developed by Catholics? I know Muhammad was your Christ, but let me tell you friend the God you know is not the God of Gods but the Devil of Devils.

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

We do not wish to respond to slander in kind, but we will answer you, you disbeliever, with quotes from the Word of God (the Qur’aan), if you even believe in the existence of God.

O disbeliever, we debate with you in the words addressed by Allaah (the Arabic name of the One True God) to the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) and the disbelievers. He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O People of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allaah aught but the truth. The Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary) was (no more than) a Messenger of Allaah and His Word (‘Be!’ – and he was), which He bestowed on Maryam, and a spirit created by Him; so believe in Allaah and His Messengers. Say not: ‘Three (trinity)!’ Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allaah is (the only) One (God). Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allaah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of Affairs.”

[al-Nisa’ 4:171]

“Say: O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do you criticize us for no other reason than that we believe in Allaah, and in (the revelation) which has been sent down before (us), and that most of you are faasiqoon (rebellious and disobedient [to Allaah])?”

[al-Maa’idah 5:59]

“How can you disbelieve in Allaah? Seeing that you were dead and He gave you life. Then He will give you death, then again will bring you to life (on the Day of Resurrection) and then unto Him you will return.”

[al-Baqarah 2:28]

“… whosoever disbelieves in Allaah, His Angels, His Books, His Messengers, and the Last Day, then indeed he has strayed far away…

Verily, those who disbelieve in Allaah and His messengers and wish to make a distinction between Allaah and His Messengers (by believing in Allaah and disbelieving in His Messengers) saying, ‘We believe in some but not in others,’ and wish to adopt a way in between,

They are in truth disbelievers. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating torment.”

[al-Nisa’ 4:136, 150-151]

O disbeliever, do you think that you can do any harm to Allaah by your disbelief? Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“… But if you disbelieve, then unto Allaah belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth, and Allaah is Ever Rich (Free of all wants), Worthy of all praise.”

[al-Nisa’ 4:131]

You will only increase in hatefulness and loss in the sight of Allaah, you disbeliever, for you are one of the worst of living creatures, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, the worst of moving (living) creatures before Allaah are those who disbelieve, - so they shall not believe.”

[al-Anfaal 8:55]

O disbeliever, are you not going to die? Or do you doubt that as well? Do you know what your position will be when you die, if you die in a state of disbelief? Listen:

“And if you could see when the angels take away the souls of those who disbelief (at death), they smite their faces and their backs, (saying): ‘Taste the punishment of the blazing Fire.’”

[al-Anfaal 8:50]

O disbeliever, woe to you from what will happen to you on the Day of Resurrection! Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“… so woe to the disbelievers from the meeting of a great Day (i.e., the Day of Resurrection, when they will be thrown in the blazing Fire).”

[Maryam 19:37]

We have an appointment with you after death, on the Day of Reckoning:

“On that day those who disbelieved and disobeyed the Messenger [Muhammad SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)] will wish that they were buried in the earth, but they will never be able to hide a single fact from Allaah.”

[al-Nisa’ 4:42]

O disbeliever, do you know what Allaah has prepared for you if you die in a state of disbelief? Read:

“And whosoever does not believe in Allaah and His Messenger [Muhammad SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)], then verily, We have prepared for the disbelievers a blazing Fire.”

[al-Fath 48:13]

“Verily, those who disbelieve, and die while they are disbelievers, it is they on whom is the Curse of Allaah and of the angels and mankind, combined.”

[al-Baqarah 2:161]

“Verily, those who disbelieved, and died while they were disbelievers, the (whole) earth full of gold will not be accepted from any one of them even if they offered it as a ransom. For them is a painful torment and they will have no helpers.”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:91]

“Surely, those who reject Faith, neither their properties, nor their offspring will avail them aught against Allaah. They are the dwellers of the Fire, therein they will abide.”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:116]

Do you know what you will have to drink in Hell if you die as a disbeliever? Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“… But those who disbelieved will have a drink of boiling fluids and painful torment because they used to disbelieve.”

[Yoonus 10:5]

Do you know what you will have to wear on that Day? Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“… Then as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them, boiling water will be poured down over their heads.”

[al-Hajj 22:19]

Do you know what kind of punishment you will endure?

“Surely! Those who disbelieved in Our Signs, We shall burn them in Fire. As often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for other skins that they may taste the punishment. Truly, Allaah is Ever Most Powerful, All-Wise.”

[al-Nisa’ 4:56]

“If only those who disbelieved knew (the time) when they will not be able to ward off the Fire from their faces, nor from their backs; and they will not be helped.”

[al-Anbiya’ 21:39]

O reviler, maybe on the Day of Judgement you will wish that you had been a Muslim in this world. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Perhaps (often) will those who disbelieve wish that they were Muslims.”

[al-Hijr 15:2]

O disbeliever, you are among those who have disbelieved and done wrong. Allaah says concerning you and your like (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily those who disbelieve and do wrong, Allaah will not forgive them, nor will He guide them to any way”

[al-Nisa’ 4:168]

“Those who disbelieve and deny our signs are those who will be the dwellers of the Hell-fire.”

[al-Maa’idah 5:10]

There you will have no life, but neither will you be able to find any respite in death. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“But those who disbelieve, for them will be the Fire of Hell. Neither will it have a complete killing effect on them so that they die, nor shall its torment be lightened for them. Thus do We requite every disbeliever!”

[Faatir 35:36]

O disbeliever, have the glad tidings of a punishment from which you will not be able to ransom yourself:

“Verily, those who disbelieve, if they had all that is in the earth, and as much again therewith to ransom themselves thereby from the torment on the Day of Resurrection, it would never be accepted of them, and theirs would be a painful torment.”

[al-Maa’idah 5:36]

O disbeliever, if you want to mock Islam and its followers, this is nothing new:

“Beautified is the life of this world for those who disbelieve, and they mock at those who believe. But those who obey Allaah’s Orders and keep away from what He has forbidden, will be above them on the Day of Resurrection. And Allaah gives (of His bounty on the Day of Resurrection) to whom He wills without limit.”

[al-Baqarah 2:212]

O disbeliever, if you think that the light of Islam will be extinguished, then you are living in a world of illusions. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“They (the disbelievers) want to extinguish Allaah’s Light with their mouths, but Allaah will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the disbelievers hate (it).”

[al-Tawbah 9:32]

O disbeliever, do you know that you are cursed if you do not submit to Allaah, so save yourself from this curse:

“Verily, Allaah has cursed the disbelievers, and has prepared for them a flaming Fire (Hell).”

[al-Ahzaab 33:64]

There is still time for you to repent from sin and transgression, so long as you are still alive. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven. But if they return (thereto), then the examples of those (punished) before them have already preceded (as a warning).”

[al-Anfaal 8:38]

Whoever is guided, then it is for his own benefit, and whoever disbelieves, then Allaah has no need of His creation. The curse of Allaah be upon the disbelievers.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

**Pygoscelis** · 06-09-2007

Ya, um, Syilla? Could you please make your font bigger and a brighter shade of red? It is too small for me to read.

**Woodrow** · 06-09-2007

Originally Posted by barney

<---Agnostic: Religions are devised by men.

Or corrupted by men.

I see it as a coercive method of
1) Getting people into the religion you are forming.
2) Dissuading people from leaving it.

I won't deny that some people have done just that. But, just because some people have thought they were equal to or superior to God(swt) does that negate the belief in a Diety?

Religion is carrotts and sticks.
A nice juicy Carrott of eternal life with flowing waters and date palms wine women and music.
A Ruddy great stick of Burning shirts.

Somehow from a materialistic view it seems atheism would be more conducive for immediate gratification. Religion is quite demanding and for a true belief in God(swt) it requires much personal sacrifice and much denial of material pleasures. Could only work if a person has reason to truly believe in God(swt)

As for the manufactuor. What product is he selling? Why should I buy his stuff? Do I need it?

Reading the instruction manual and the warranty, it seems that it is not a product being sold but a service and a training course. Like all training courses it does require effort and even some on hands experimentation. If we complete the course with a passing grade we graduate to a professional level and are rewarded with security and unbelievable company benefits with many free perks.

Why did he make it so dangerous...hasnt he heard of the health n safety act?

Quite true, it is very hazardous. however, if the instructions are followed life can be handled in a safe manner and live up to the full promises of the Manufacturer. The Manufacturer was the original writer of the health and safety act. All needed safety devices are available if requested.However, since each situation is different it is necessary that we ask for the safety features as we need them. There is immediate service available if we call upon customer support.

**barney** · 06-09-2007

Originally Posted by Malaikah

we all agreed to this, .

I must have been pulling a sickkie that day. I always keep my receipts even for takeaways. cant find that documentation anywhere.
Can you link me a pic of your agreement so i know what the form looks like?

I just tried yelling out of the window at the nearest mountain, it said it cant remember either. actually it diddnt say anything....but it's silence I take as being supportive of my arguement since it diddnt disagree.

**Malaikah** · 06-09-2007

This occurred before the human race was established on earth. Allah pulled all the souls of all the humans to come out of the back of Prophet Adam (AS) and proposed the challenge to us and we accepted.

Obviously we don't remember this.

**Woodrow** · 06-09-2007

Originally Posted by barney

I must have been pulling a sickkie that day. I always keep my receipts even for takeaways. cant find that documentation anywhere.
Can you link me a pic of your agreement so i know what the form looks like?

I just tried yelling out of the window at the nearest mountain, it said it cant remember either. actually it diddnt say anything....but it's silence I take as being supportive of my arguement since it diddnt disagree.

Apparently you are using the freeware demo version. While it is excellent for showing the product, it does not contain the full features and is not under full warranty. In order to obtain the full version it is necessary to complete the Manufacturers contract, which we refer to as the Shahadah, the full manual which we call the Qur'an is available for free upon request. There are previous models still in existence but it is advised to be cautious of using them as they have been abused by previous users and the warranty has been violated and is no longer in effect for them. For the full warranty, you need to use the genuine product as provided by the Manufacturer.

**barney** · 06-09-2007

Originally Posted by Woodrow

Or corrupted by men.

I won't deny that some people have done just that. But, just because some people have thought they were equal to or superior to God(swt) does that negate the belief in a Diety?

Somehow from a materialistic view it seems atheism would be more conducive for immediate gratification. Religion is quite demanding and for a true belief in God(swt) it requires much personal sacrifice and much denial of material pleasures. Could only work if a person has reason to truly believe in God(swt)

Reading the instruction manual and the warranty, it seems that it is not a product being sold but a service and a training course. Like all training courses it does require effort and even some on hands experimentation. If we complete the course with a passing grade we graduate to a professional level and are rewarded with security and unbelievable company benefits with many free perks.

Quite true, it is very hazardous. however, if the instructions are followed life can be handled in a safe manner and live up to the full promises of the Manufacturer. The Manufacturer was the original writer of the health and safety act. All needed safety devices are available if requested.However, since each situation is different it is necessary that we ask for the safety features as we need them. There is immediate service available if we call upon customer support.

I beleive in a creator/(s). Just that it's not Allah or Jehova or Jesus or Horus.
It's my beleif that true religion comes with a personal connection with this creator, if thats possible. Personally i doubt it is. If the creator is still around then theres no interaction that I can see.

I like the analogy of a training course. Fits well into a religious system. Nice one.

As a agnostic, I veiw it more like a Patio salesman coming round telling me that He can do a really great deal on re-turfing lawns and a nice shrubbery. I can go along with his deal or he will kick my face in forever. i'd probably go along with the deal.....

..........But I live on the 14th floor of a block of flats.

**barney** · 06-09-2007

Originally Posted by Woodrow

Apparently you are using the freeware demo version. While it is excellent for showing the product, it does not contain the full features and is not under full warranty. In order to obtain the full version it is necessary to complete the Manufacturers contract, which we refer to as the Shahadah, the full manual which we call the Qur'an is available for free upon request. There are previous models still in existence but it is advised to be cautious of using them as they have been abused by previous users and the warranty has been violated and is no longer in effect for them. For the full warranty, you need to use the genuine product as provided by the Manufacturer.

But I've been sent this rotating ashtray and i dont smoke.
He's installed apparently 24 hour CCTV footage everywhere i go to check i'm using it....and If I dont. he'll pound my face to a pulp.

**Woodrow** · 06-09-2007

Originally Posted by barney

I beleive in a creator/(s). Just that it's not Allah or Jehova or Jesus or Horus.
It's my beleif that true religion comes with a personal connection with this creator, if thats possible. Personally i doubt it is. If the creator is still around then theres no interaction that I can see.

I like the analogy of a training course. Fits well into a religious system. Nice one.

As a agnostic, I veiw it more like a Patio salesman coming round telling me that He can do a really great deal on re-turfing lawns and a nice shrubbery. I can go along with his deal or he will kick my face in forever. i'd probably go along with the deal.....

..........But I live on the 14th floor of a block of flats.

I really can understand your views i spent a good bit of my life as an agnostic too and at one time I would say my views were very similar to yours. i did try various religious systems and for a long time called myself a Buddhist. That was after being a Christian for about 25 years.

I can not say I came to Islam, rather Islam came to me. I can only call it a flash of insight one day when I was reading the Qur'an from a scholastic view and as a linguistic study as i was trying to refresh my Arabic that I had not used for nearly 40 years.

I can not say or do anything that would convince you that Islam is the truth. That is a personal choice a person can only make on their own and should only be done if a person sincerely believes it is the only path to take.

May your journey in life be beneficial and may you find the joy and fulfillment many of us have found. Never, stop seeking and always question all that you are told. When all else fails, stop and ask Allah(swt) for guidance and be receptive for His reply.

**islamirama** · 06-09-2007

Originally Posted by Malaikah

He is reminding you that you are human being and you took up this challenge and it was not forced upon you. The mountains and other creations strong than humans where also offered this challenge but none accepted it.

What challenge? The challenge that they will be given life and freedom of choice to choose whether they will worship Allah or not. If they do, they will be rewarded with Paradise,a dn if they don't, they will be punished with hell fire.

Allah sent thousands of Messengers to remind us of the reason we were created and that the purpose of this life is to worship Allah and that there is life after this life, in the hereafter, in either paradise or hell fire.

The bottom line is that we all agreed to this, and Allah is only reminding us, out of his mercy, of our promise. Now it is up to us to accept or turn away.

trustofferxz2 - Response to a stubborn disbeliever

**Balthasar21** · 06-09-2007

Originally Posted by Woodrow

Speaking for myself, I would say the Christians were influenced by the very same Prophets that came before Muhammad(PBUH) If they had truly followed what was given to them their beliefs would be the same as ours. The message Allah(swt) gave to Muhammad(PBUH) was the same message given to all of the Prophets(PBUT) including Isa(as). The only difference is when the message was given in the past it was given for specific people at specific times. When it was given to Muhammad(PBUH) it is to given to all people of all times.

Question ; Was The prophet Muhammad influenced by The Christians ???

**Woodrow** · 06-09-2007

Originally Posted by Balthasar21

Question ; Was The prophet Muhammad influenced by The Christians ???

No. But both the Early Christians and Muhammad(PBUH) were influenced by the words of Allah(swt) There should be much similarities between Judaism, Christianity and Islam as they all have the same chain of Prophets(PBUT) if the earlier messages had not been corrupted there would have not been 3 separate religions.

**barney** · 06-09-2007

Originally Posted by Woodrow

May your journey in life be beneficial and may you find the joy and fulfillment many of us have found. Never, stop seeking and always question all that you are told. When all else fails, stop and ask Allah(swt) for guidance and be receptive for His reply.

Cheers and the same to your good self!

**glo** · 06-09-2007

Originally Posted by Pygoscelis

A "fall guy" is a term usually used in an organized crime setting, meaning one person being made to or volunteering to take the punishment for another. For example when evidence surfaces that the mafia don killed somebody, one of his men may step forward and confess that HE did the murder (and take the sentence for it) while the don walks away free.

Thanks for the explanation.

My point is that it is immoral for one person to be punished for the wrongdoing of another, even if he volunteers for it. And this is exactly the point of what Jesus is doing when he "died for the sins" of chrisitians.

Yes, you are right. That was an outrageous thing to do. Sacrificing yourself - although entirely innocent - for the sake of others, who jolly well deserve their punishment, is shockingly outrageous, and completely flies in the face of our human justice system.

It is, what Christians call God's Grace.

To clarify from an earlier post, though (and not wanting to take this thread off-topic), whilst Jesus' sacrifice restored the relationship between humans and God it is not excuse for people to continue sinning.
It is not a get-out-of-jail-card, which lets you off the hook for every wrong you commit.
There is clear evidence in Jesus' teachings that we will be judged by our actions and deeds at the end of the day.

Sin has consequences.

Peace

**Skavau** · 06-09-2007

Originally Posted by Malakiah

He is reminding you that you are human being and you took up this challenge and it was not forced upon you. The mountains and other creations strong than humans where also offered this challenge but none accepted it.

Where did I accept this challenge?

Originally Posted by Malakiah

What challenge? The challenge that they will be given life and freedom of choice to choose whether they will worship Allah or not. If they do, they will be rewarded with Paradise,a dn if they don't, they will be punished with hell fire.

That's not a challenge. That's almost a threat.

Originally Posted by Malakiah

The bottom line is that we all agreed to this, and Allah is only reminding us, out of his mercy, of our promise. Now it is up to us to accept or turn away.

Where did we all agree to this? I certainly didn't.

Originally Posted by Woodrow

Have you given any thought as to why there would be so many? When you buy any devices have you ever read the warnings listed on them, such as wear safety goggles, keep fingers away from moving parts, wear ear protection, do not expose to heat or flame etc. Do the manufactures put those warnings because they want to punish us if we are not obedient or is it because they do not want us to be harmed? Does it not make sense that the manufacturer of the earth would give us operating instructions so that we can make our time using it productive and safe?

This is a faulty analogy.

Manufacturers who put health and safety warnings on manuals do it out of necessity. You are compromising your safety at your own risk and there is no way of there not needing to have health and safety warnings used.

With God though, he established everything (if God exists). He would have created heaven and/or hell. He established the conditions of which the 'warnings' are necessary. He established the world knowing full well what would happen to those who do not believe in him. You're then comparing this to a health and safety manual?

**- Qatada -** · 06-09-2007

Guys (Woodrow and sis Malaikah), i think the trust was given to Adam, and since he was the first human, obviously it continued through his lineage.

I think that's explained in Tafsir Ibn Kathir. And Allaah knows best.

**vpb** · 06-09-2007

The answer from the sheikh is aswesome and very tough lol

very good answer. some people like that questioner deserve those type of answers.

may Allah swt reward the sheikh.

**Balthasar21** · 06-09-2007

Originally Posted by Woodrow

No. But both the Early Christians and Muhammad(PBUH) were influenced by the words of Allah(swt) There should be much similarities between Judaism, Christianity and Islam as they all have the same chain of Prophets(PBUT) if the earlier messages had not been corrupted there would have not been 3 separate religions.

Are you giveing a Two Fold ansewer here Yes and No ?

**Woodrow** · 06-09-2007

Originally Posted by Woodrow

No. But both the Early Christians and Muhammad(PBUH) were influenced by the words of Allah(swt) There should be much similarities between Judaism, Christianity and Islam as they all have the same chain of Prophets(PBUT) if the earlier messages had not been corrupted there would have not been 3 separate religions.

Originally Posted by Balthasar21

Are you giveing a Two Fold ansewer here Yes and No ?

What part of no do you need explained?

No, Muhammad(PBUH) was not influenced by early Christians. The two of them will be similar because Christianity also was based upon the words of Allah(SWT)

**barney** · 06-09-2007

Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah

Guys (Woodrow and sis Malaikah), i think the trust was given to Adam, and since he was the first human, obviously it continued through his lineage.

So somebody who in all likelyhood who diddnt exist, and if he did wasnt the first human, and who lived apparently 4000 years ago, several hundreds of thousands of years after cavemen, did something wrong apparently, in somebodys eyes...all his decendents right to his great great grandkids X 10 to the power of 40 now have to accept his "challange" too.

I'll buy that for a dollar.

**Balthasar21** · 06-09-2007

Originally Posted by Woodrow

What part of no do you need explained?

No, Muhammad(PBUH) was not influenced by early Christians. The two of them will be similar because Christianity also was based upon the words of Allah(SWT)

Now everyone know the christian God was here before the muslims God Allah Muslims God came 1400 years later , That why I ask were you given a two fold answer .