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Response to a stubborn disbeliever

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    Response to a stubborn disbeliever

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    Response to a stubborn disbeliever



    Question:

    Did you know your religion was founded and developed by Catholics? I know Muhammad was your Christ, but let me tell you friend the God you know is not the God of Gods but the Devil of Devils.




    Answer:

    Praise be to Allaah.

    We do not wish to respond to slander in kind, but we will answer you, you disbeliever, with quotes from the Word of God (the Qur’aan), if you even believe in the existence of God.


    O disbeliever, we debate with you in the words addressed by Allaah (the Arabic name of the One True God) to the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) and the disbelievers. He says (interpretation of the meaning):


    “O People of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allaah aught but the truth. The Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary) was (no more than) a Messenger of Allaah and His Word (‘Be!’ – and he was), which He bestowed on Maryam, and a spirit created by Him; so believe in Allaah and His Messengers. Say not: ‘Three (trinity)!’ Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allaah is (the only) One (God). Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allaah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of Affairs.”

    [al-Nisa’ 4:171]



    “Say: O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do you criticize us for no other reason than that we believe in Allaah, and in (the revelation) which has been sent down before (us), and that most of you are faasiqoon (rebellious and disobedient [to Allaah])?”

    [al-Maa’idah 5:59]



    “How can you disbelieve in Allaah? Seeing that you were dead and He gave you life. Then He will give you death, then again will bring you to life (on the Day of Resurrection) and then unto Him you will return.”

    [al-Baqarah 2:28]



    “… whosoever disbelieves in Allaah, His Angels, His Books, His Messengers, and the Last Day, then indeed he has strayed far away…

    Verily, those who disbelieve in Allaah and His messengers and wish to make a distinction between Allaah and His Messengers (by believing in Allaah and disbelieving in His Messengers) saying, ‘We believe in some but not in others,’ and wish to adopt a way in between,

    They are in truth disbelievers. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating torment.”


    [al-Nisa’ 4:136, 150-151]




    O disbeliever, do you think that you can do any harm to Allaah by your disbelief? Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):


    “… But if you disbelieve, then unto Allaah belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth, and Allaah is Ever Rich (Free of all wants), Worthy of all praise.”
    [al-Nisa’ 4:131]


    You will only increase in hatefulness and loss in the sight of Allaah, you disbeliever, for you are one of the worst of living creatures, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):


    “Verily, the worst of moving (living) creatures before Allaah are those who disbelieve, - so they shall not believe.”

    [al-Anfaal 8:55]



    O disbeliever, are you not going to die? Or do you doubt that as well? Do you know what your position will be when you die, if you die in a state of disbelief? Listen:


    “And if you could see when the angels take away the souls of those who disbelief (at death), they smite their faces and their backs, (saying): ‘Taste the punishment of the blazing Fire.’”


    [al-Anfaal 8:50]


    O disbeliever, woe to you from what will happen to you on the Day of Resurrection! Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “… so woe to the disbelievers from the meeting of a great Day (i.e., the Day of Resurrection, when they will be thrown in the blazing Fire).”


    [Maryam 19:37]




    We have an appointment with you after death, on the Day of Reckoning:


    “On that day those who disbelieved and disobeyed the Messenger [Muhammad SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)] will wish that they were buried in the earth, but they will never be able to hide a single fact from Allaah.”


    [al-Nisa’ 4:42]



    O disbeliever, do you know what Allaah has prepared for you if you die in a state of disbelief? Read:


    “And whosoever does not believe in Allaah and His Messenger [Muhammad SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)], then verily, We have prepared for the disbelievers a blazing Fire.”


    [al-Fath 48:13]




    “Verily, those who disbelieve, and die while they are disbelievers, it is they on whom is the Curse of Allaah and of the angels and mankind, combined.”

    [al-Baqarah 2:161]



    “Verily, those who disbelieved, and died while they were disbelievers, the (whole) earth full of gold will not be accepted from any one of them even if they offered it as a ransom. For them is a painful torment and they will have no helpers.”

    [Aal ‘Imraan 3:91]



    “Surely, those who reject Faith, neither their properties, nor their offspring will avail them aught against Allaah. They are the dwellers of the Fire, therein they will abide.”

    [Aal ‘Imraan 3:116]




    Do you know what you will have to drink in Hell if you die as a disbeliever? Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):


    “… But those who disbelieved will have a drink of boiling fluids and painful torment because they used to disbelieve.”

    [Yoonus 10:5]


    Do you know what you will have to wear on that Day? Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):


    “… Then as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them, boiling water will be poured down over their heads.”

    [al-Hajj 22:19]



    Do you know what kind of punishment you will endure?


    “Surely! Those who disbelieved in Our Signs, We shall burn them in Fire. As often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for other skins that they may taste the punishment. Truly, Allaah is Ever Most Powerful, All-Wise.”

    [al-Nisa’ 4:56]

    “If only those who disbelieved knew (the time) when they will not be able to ward off the Fire from their faces, nor from their backs; and they will not be helped.”

    [al-Anbiya’ 21:39]



    O reviler, maybe on the Day of Judgement you will wish that you had been a Muslim in this world. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Perhaps (often) will those who disbelieve wish that they were Muslims.”


    [al-Hijr 15:2]


    O disbeliever, you are among those who have disbelieved and done wrong. Allaah says concerning you and your like (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Verily those who disbelieve and do wrong, Allaah will not forgive them, nor will He guide them to any way”

    [al-Nisa’ 4:168]



    “Those who disbelieve and deny our signs are those who will be the dwellers of the Hell-fire.”

    [al-Maa’idah 5:10]




    There you will have no life, but neither will you be able to find any respite in death. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):


    “But those who disbelieve, for them will be the Fire of Hell. Neither will it have a complete killing effect on them so that they die, nor shall its torment be lightened for them. Thus do We requite every disbeliever!”

    [Faatir 35:36]




    O disbeliever, have the glad tidings of a punishment from which you will not be able to ransom yourself:


    “Verily, those who disbelieve, if they had all that is in the earth, and as much again therewith to ransom themselves thereby from the torment on the Day of Resurrection, it would never be accepted of them, and theirs would be a painful torment.”

    [al-Maa’idah 5:36]




    O disbeliever, if you want to mock Islam and its followers, this is nothing new:


    “Beautified is the life of this world for those who disbelieve, and they mock at those who believe. But those who obey Allaah’s Orders and keep away from what He has forbidden, will be above them on the Day of Resurrection. And Allaah gives (of His bounty on the Day of Resurrection) to whom He wills without limit.”

    [al-Baqarah 2:212]



    O disbeliever, if you think that the light of Islam will be extinguished, then you are living in a world of illusions. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):


    “They (the disbelievers) want to extinguish Allaah’s Light with their mouths, but Allaah will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the disbelievers hate (it).”

    [al-Tawbah 9:32]



    O disbeliever, do you know that you are cursed if you do not submit to Allaah, so save yourself from this curse:


    “Verily, Allaah has cursed the disbelievers, and has prepared for them a flaming Fire (Hell).”

    [al-Ahzaab 33:64]


    There is still time for you to repent from sin and transgression, so long as you are still alive. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):


    “Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven. But if they return (thereto), then the examples of those (punished) before them have already preceded (as a warning).”

    [al-Anfaal 8:38]



    Whoever is guided, then it is for his own benefit, and whoever disbelieves, then Allaah has no need of His creation. The curse of Allaah be upon the disbelievers.


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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    “O People of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allaah aught but the truth. The Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary) was (no more than) a Messenger of Allaah and His Word (‘Be!’ – and he was), which He bestowed on Maryam, and a spirit created by Him; so believe in Allaah and His Messengers. Say not: ‘Three (trinity)!’ Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allaah is (the only) One (God). Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allaah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of Affairs.”

    [al-Nisa’ 4:171]
    Are the words in parenthesis in the original arabic? If not, how is the translator not guilty of the Quranic injunction about altering God's Word?

    002.079
    YUSUFALI: Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.
    PICKTHAL: Therefore woe be unto those who write the Scripture with their hands and then say, "This is from Allah," that they may purchase a small gain therewith. Woe unto them for that their hands have written, and woe unto them for that they earn thereby.
    SHAKIR: Woe, then, to those who write the book with their hands and then say: This is from Allah, so that they may take for it a small price; therefore woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    Unlike other faiths, in Islam God words is always intact.

    The translation may be slightly distorted by the scripture itself is not.
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by QuranStudy View Post
    Unlike other faiths, in Islam God words is always intact.

    The translation may be slightly distorted by the scripture itself is not.
    The problem is that the translation is distorted to shift the interpretation of the original arabic verse in an attempt to deceive those who don't know arabic into believing the Quran says something it does not. Certainly God did not intend to say that those who change His Word in the original language were guilty of sin while those who mistranslate it were not.
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    "you disbeliever, for you are one of the worst of living creatures". ffended:
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    Whats the point of this? What is expected from me? I do not believe. That is not necesarrily a rational choice, I simply don't believe. I don't feel God and I don't see why Islam would be anymore true than any other religion. For me there is no option to believe, because I don't. How could I possibly make myself believe? How do these insults and threats help me in this?
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by HusamLah View Post
    Thanks Fi_Sabilillah
    Thanks for what? For the knowledge that all those who disbelieve are the lowest living beings on this planet? Or for the knowledge that my "garments of fire will be cut out for me" and "boiling water will be poured down over my head"?
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    Kading.
    I am not sure I understand......if none of these "threats" mean anything to you, why is it, you are upset enough to reply to this post? You don't believe therefore nothing is expected of or from you ... no one (human) will persecute you for your beliefs or lack thereof ... it is something between you and the universe ... what is in the book is an admonition for those who reflect... each soul is reponsible for its own deeds, so if it means nothing to you... don't make much of it.....
    Last edited by جوري; 08-19-2006 at 06:13 PM.
    Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    Text without context is pretext
    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him 44845203 1 - Response to a stubborn disbeliever

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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by KAding View Post
    Whats the point of this? What is expected from me? I do not believe. That is not necesarrily a rational choice, I simply don't believe. I don't feel God and I don't see why Islam would be anymore true than any other religion. For me there is no option to believe, because I don't. How could I possibly make myself believe? How do these insults and threats help me in this?
    ccn i ask u sumtingz if u dnt mind.. why dnt u blive in god? bcuz u dont feel God? hav u tried 2 sit dwn and think abt dis? isnt better to blive in God than not 2? whats rong wid blieve in Allah? give me good valid bad points please.. they arent insultz and threats..!!! theyr just wht our lord told us in the Qur'aan abt the kafirs (disbelievers)
    Response to a stubborn disbeliever

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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by dougmusr View Post
    The problem is that the translation is distorted to shift the interpretation of the original arabic verse in an attempt to deceive those who don't know arabic into believing the Quran says something it does not. Certainly God did not intend to say that those who change His Word in the original language were guilty of sin while those who mistranslate it were not.
    Keep in mind no translation is the Qur'an. I believe most muslim when speaking to a non-Arabic speaking, Non-Muslim, would do his/her best to make that understood. Most will explain that there are several very good translations, yet none of them give an accurate meaning in all sentences.

    Arabic simply can not be translated accuratly into another language. Any translation is biased an the attempted views by the translator to Explain it in the other language. For a non-Arabic speaker to get a close concept of the Qur'an it is best to view several trasnslation and then seek the opinions of an Ababic speaking Muslim.

    To a person desiring to be Muslim, it is their responsibility to learn all they can about Islam from all possible sources. And then make their choice from knowledge they have sought and found themselves. All of us will admit that we do not have the ability to translate purely the Qur'an into your language. We can only state what we believe in terms of your language. We will make mistakes. However, no Muslim would deliberatly use the Qur'an to deceive.
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia View Post
    Kading.
    I am not sure I understand......if none of these "threats" mean anything to you, why is it, you are upset enough to reply to this post?
    I don't know. It just angers me somewhat. It lacks common decency, it simply goes against my values. I don't go around telling people they are scum of the earth and deserve to die the most horrible deaths. I don't expect people to behave like that and neither would I respect a religion that approaches 'disbelievers' in that manner.

    You don't believe therefore nothing is expected of or from you ... no one (human) will persecute you for your beliefs or lack thereof ... it is something between you and the universe ... what is in the book is an admonition for those who reflect... each soul is reponsible for its own deeds, so if it means nothing to you... don't make much of it.....
    Perhaps you are right. But I just can't help but feel that this post if a piece of simple hate-speech. It lacks any kind of respect. Maybe it should concern you more than me, because surely non-Muslims are more likely to be disgusted than convinced by this? Do you want to guide them to the right path with love or piss them off with these kind of threats and insults?
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by MusLiM 4 LiFe View Post
    ccn i ask u sumtingz if u dnt mind.. why dnt u blive in god? bcuz u dont feel God?
    Well, yes. I just don't 'feel' God so I can't 'believe' in him at an emotional level. I also don't see any proof of his existance, so I can't believe in him at a rational level either.

    hav u tried 2 sit dwn and think abt dis?
    Why do you think I'm here?

    isnt better to blive in God than not 2?
    But that won't make anyone believe. Thats the whole problem with this thread. What if I put a knife to your throat and demand you to stop believing? You can't even if you knew your life depended on it! At best you can fake disbelief, but you know you believe. That is no different with these threats of hellfire. I can't make a rational choice to start believing just to be on the 'safe side'. Either you believe in God as your religion describes him, or you don't. You can't threaten people into believing, just like you can't threaten them into disbelieving.

    whats rong wid blieve in Allah? give me good valid bad points please..
    That is for another threat. My point is merely that this is about the worst and least compassionate approach possible to 'dawa' thinkable. You won't convince people with this. You attract people with love, not this hate.

    they arent insultz and threats..!!!
    Well, then I'm sure that you won't object when I from now on start referring to Muslim as the "lowest living beings on this planet! Nay, the universe! They will all suffer horrible deaths and deserve it, since they are hateful creatures". Say a Christian would use such language. What would your first reaction to it? Do you think this will convince many Muslims to become Christians?

    theyr just wht our lord told us in the Qur'aan abt the kafirs (disbelievers)
    Well, I find it totally lacking any kind of respect. I suppose thats why I am not a Muslim. Mind you, I don't blame you, to you it is after all the word of God. I am just amazed it is used to convince disbelievers of the truth of Islam.
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by KAding View Post
    I don't know. It just angers me somewhat. It lacks common decency, it simply goes against my values. I don't go around telling people they are scum of the earth and deserve to die the most horrible deaths. I don't expect people to behave like that and neither would I respect a religion that approaches 'disbelievers' in that manner.
    Perhaps you are ignoring the fact that the questioner tells Muslims their God is the devil of devils!! Obviously the response to such an individual will be incomparable to someone who asks respectfully and without resorting to such insults.

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    Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by KAding View Post
    I don't know. It just angers me somewhat. It lacks common decency, it simply goes against my values. I don't go around telling people they are scum of the earth and deserve to die the most horrible deaths. I don't expect people to behave like that and neither would I respect a religion that approaches 'disbelievers' in that manner.?
    ...I don't see a verse that states you are a lowly scum of the earth , and deserve to die a horrible death do you? I make no apologies for of words of God otherwise, whether or not you choose to accept it as such, secondly it is no different than the Judeo-Christian perspective of Pagans and disbelievers? .... No one is burning you at the stake for not believing... it is but an admonition....it clearly states [Yusufali 74:37] To any of you that chooses to press forward, or to follow behind;- as in it is your choice.....
    كُلُّ نَفْسٍ بِمَا كَسَبَتْ رَهِينَةٌ {38}
    [Yusufali 74:38] Every soul will be (held) in pledge for its deeds.
    Again no one is here to tell you where to go or what to do..........
    [Yusufali 74:52] Forsooth, each one of them wants to be given scrolls (of revelation) spread out.....[Yusufali 74:54] Nay, this surely is an admonition:.........[Yusufali 74:55] Let any who will, keep it in remembrance!
    So at this rate it is clearly stated... this is but a warning... if you wish to take it or leave it... yes God knows each person wishes to be given scrolls of truth... each soul held in pledge for its own deeds.... this is but a reminder.... not you Kading are a lowly scum if it doesn't apply to you then move on and don't be so angry.......




    format_quote Originally Posted by KAding View Post
    Perhaps you are right. But I just can't help but feel that this post if a piece of simple hate-speech. It lacks any kind of respect. Maybe it should concern you more than me, because surely non-Muslims are more likely to be disgusted than convinced by this? Do you want to guide them to the right path with love or piss them off with these kind of threats and insults?
    No it doesn't concern me since I don't take the Quran in fragments to propogate what I wish to assert to people.... I just showed you another passage above that tells you... you are responsible for your own deeds and you'll NOT answer to Men for what you believe or Don't..... different people have different approaches... I just wrote a hadith the other day by Prophet (PBUH) stating "ina aldeen wasi3 fawghil feeh brifq, ina almonbata la ardan qata3 wla th'hran abqa"
    translates to.... religion is vast so teach with gentility... he who is harsh has NOT CROSSED LAND, NOT KEPT HIS TRANSPORT..... clearly states the approach we should follow.... if you keep hitting your horse to cross the desert, you will not cross the desert and your horse won't survive the beating.... In less obsecure terms.....you'll find bible thumpers no doubt who will do the same... if you don't do this to hell you go.... truth is I don't know where you are going... no one here knows... I don't know even about my own self; I can try my best and pray for mercy... personally, I can only show you the best to invite you ...or try every verse that will show you of the punishment that will befall you? ... not all people are the same! neither is their approach!... a wise man reads the book in its entirety and makes a sound decision based on his understanding... not someone else's, do you agree? :sister:
    Last edited by جوري; 08-19-2006 at 10:45 PM.
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl View Post
    Perhaps you are ignoring the fact that the questioner tells Muslims their God is the devil of devils!! Obviously the response to such an individual will be incomparable to someone who asks respectfully and without resorting to such insults.

    Regards
    A good point, although I would expect someone with wisdom to not respond in kind and stoop to this level.

    Besides, we all know Islam has more to offer to convince people than these threats and insults. At has some strong assets, like it's claim on uncorrupted scriptures and sense of brotherhood and belonging.
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by KAding View Post
    A good point, although I would expect someone with wisdom to not respond in kind and stoop to this level.

    Besides, we all know Islam has more to offer to convince people than these threats and insults. At has some strong assets, like it's claim on uncorrupted scriptures and sense of brotherhood and belonging.
    You wish to not believe, it goes against your principles?... and on some level you enjoy sarcasm as is noted from above text... yet here you are on the Islamic forum? I don't understand.... have you explored why you choose to come here though it all offends you so much?... its asset as you afore mention are subject to incessant ridicule by your person? Are you secretly hoping some truth will reveal itself to you, or conversly hoping that you'll unmask some blinded muslims into the wrong of their ways?
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia View Post
    You wish to not believe, it goes against your principles?
    ? Sorry, were have I said any such thing? I said I don't believe, not that I don't wish to believe. Actually, I think believing would be a wonderful thing, but I don't .

    ... and on some level you enjoy sarcasm as is noted from above text...
    Sarcasm? What sarcasm are you referring too. I am sometimes sarcastic unfortunately. But I can assure you, there was no sarcasm in my response to Ansar. I really believe those are strong assets. Certainly Islamic sources seem more thrustworthy then Christian texts and the sense of brotherhood, while at a political level is sometimes disturbing, is very attractive at a personal level.

    yet here you are on the Islamic forum? I don't understand.... have you explored why you choose to come here though it all offends you so much?
    Most things don't offend me. I just found this post a bit vile. I come here to learn about religion and Islam.

    ... its asset as you afore mention are subject to incessant ridicule by your person? Are you secretly hoping some truth will reveal itself to you, or conversly hoping that you'll unmask some blinded muslims into the wrong of their ways?
    No, I fear I am not that social minded. I really am here to educate myself, not others . Edit: Although I suppose that isn't true, since I wouldn't join into the debate myself then. Fine, I am here to learn and teach to the best of my abilities .
    Last edited by KAding; 08-19-2006 at 11:41 PM.
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    alright then my bad...... welcome aboard! and hope your stay is fruitful =)
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by dougmusr View Post
    The problem is that the translation is distorted to shift the interpretation of the original arabic verse in an attempt to deceive those who don't know arabic into believing the Quran says something it does not. Certainly God did not intend to say that those who change His Word in the original language were guilty of sin while those who mistranslate it were not.
    If u really thinkso, go learn Arabic then tell me what it says.
    The English language does not support a lot of the words in Arabic. Thats why its encouraged to read it in Arabic. But because not everyone can speak it, its fair enuff to read it in English or whatever may be ur language.
    Last edited by Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн; 08-19-2006 at 11:54 PM.
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    *Without Allah, without Islam, life would be meaningless. If I've ever learned patience, it's because of this. Alhamdulillah...*
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    In the Bible there are references to hell but the whole of scripture is Jesus wooing his church as a groom would woo his bride. Were He to bring us in by just the fear of hell He wouldn't have a church that chooses God, but people who chose against hell. Would you men out there rather have a bride that wants to spend her life with you or one that takes you because you were the choice that wasn't the worst. Women, who would you rather have for a groom, one who would die for you whether you chose him or not or one that you were pushed into the relationship with? This is where Jesus leaves it to us, our choosing or not choosing Him.
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