Well the reason I decided to make this topic is because whenever Muslims tell Christians that the Bible is changed, altered etc. Christians always demand proof, well here is the proof we've been waiting for:
Quotes From Bible Scholars Claiming The Bible Has Been ‘Altered’
The NT was written by Christians for Christians ; it was moreover written in Greek for Greek-speaking communities, and the style of writing (with the exception, possibly, of the Apocalypse) was that of current literary composition. There has been no real break in the continuity of the Greek-speaking Church and we find accordingly that few real blunders of writing are met with in the leading types of the extant texts. This state of things has not prevented variations ; but they are not for the most part accidental. An overwhelming majority of the 'various readings' of the MSS of the NT were from the very first intentional alterations. The NT in very early times had no canonical authority, and alterations and additions were actually made where they seemed improvements
(Encyclopedia Biblica (Vol. 4. p. 4980)
also proof that:
Mark 16:9-20 Is a Fabrication!
The oldest Bible we possess today, Codex Sinaiticus, which contains both Old and New Testaments does not conatin Mark 16:9-20 infact, it stops at Mark 16:8 :
The scribe who brought Mark's Gospel to an end in Codex Sinaiticus had no doubt that it finished at chapter 16, verse 8. He underlined the text with a fine artistic squiggle, and wrote, "The Gospel according to Mark." Immediately following begins the Gospel of Luke
well الحقيقه part means the truth so that part is ok... مجانا can be used as like a bonus... when you get 33% more free with your shampoo... but it can't be used in the sense you mean.... I don't have an arabic key pad here to put appropriate words for you.... the rest is just terribly conjugated I am not sure how to begin correct it? you should get your money back from whomever is teaching you arabic unless they are pranksters and just teaching you improper words for laughs.... thankfully they are not teaching you dirty ones.......... we hope :laugh:
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
math applies everywehre, as one of from a stat point of view,
That is why George Gallup, the American statistician says: "I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - chance that all the functions of the individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity."
well that is just impressive....... thank you
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
thx sis, sorry if it sounded like my question was directed at u... i was referring to the christians who just seem to either totally ignore me or pick n choose individual lines
I'll reply to your comments only after u do a line by line response to what i said.
line by line? aren't you asking too much? Can't you make this punishment a little lighter and pick some line you find important? But if you are referring to "lines" about Quran, than sorry i doubt i'll respond. As a Christian on Muslim board i don't feel it's a place for me to comment on Quran. you will quickly disargree with me...
format_quote Originally Posted by Hana_Aku
I wanted to respond to this so you understand that I don't copy/paste responses regarding biblical text.
- I know this already
format_quote Originally Posted by Hana_Aku
I don't agree with what you said about Christians not thinking of the bible the same way we think about the Qur'an. We both believe these books are words of God.
yes, we both call our Books "word of God" but then we mean something different behind this term. Muslims say that Quran is literal word of God. Word by word - all "spoken" by Him. In Christian view (ok...Christian DO vary, so let's say "catholic") Bible was written by men. We think that there is nothing like "direct word of God", there is always "human factor" refelected in revelation (human emotion, knowlegde...so on..). And if i understand your faith correctly Quran is a "pure" word of God without this "human factor"
format_quote Originally Posted by Hana_Aku
I sincerely hope you can understand the point I'm trying to make. I have a tendency to babble.
and i have tendency to make spelling mistakes so let's call it a draw
format_quote Originally Posted by Hana_Aku
Take care and peace
Take care aslo, Hana
The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned.
Guys I'm pretty sure that corners of the Earth is metaphorical I mean people still use that phrase today even tho we know the earth is round.
Do you know that the Pope killed plenty for believing the world is round?? It was meant literally. You cannot adjust the sayings of the Bible just because some stuff says has been debunked.
"And Jacob called the name of the place Pe-ni'el: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
Genesis 32:30
"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
John 1:18
2 or 1 Sons?
"For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman."
Galatians 4:22
"By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son,"
Hebrews 11:17
What did Jesus Drink on the Cross?
"They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink."
Matthew 27:34
"And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he received it not."
Mark 15:23
*Without Allah, without Islam, life would be meaningless. If I've ever learned patience, it's because of this. Alhamdulillah...*
I presume you have posted these references because you feel they are contradictions, although you did not comment on them.
format_quote Originally Posted by Tayyaba
Did Anyone See God?
"And Jacob called the name of the place Pe-ni'el: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
Genesis 32:30
You do not understand these because you deny the fact that an all powerful God is capable of appearing to man in human form for the purpose of communicating His will. It is of course true that no man has seen God in His fullness because to do so would mean certain death. Since I believe in the Trinity, I believe when God appears in Human form He appears as Christ, and thus Jacob struggled with God, yet He did not die.
Ge 18:1 Then the LORD appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre,[a] as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. 2 So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him;
Ge 18:22 Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom, but Abraham still stood before the LORD.
Ge 19:1 Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground.
Note that there were three men, two were angels, one was the Lord in human form.
"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
John 1:18
Of course only Christ knows what God looks like in His fullness.
2 or 1 Sons?
"For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman."
Galatians 4:22
This is of course true. Even Islam believes this.
"By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son,"
Hebrews 11:17
Ge 17:17 Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, “Shall a child be born to a man who is one hundred years old? And shall Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?” 18 And Abraham said to God, “Oh, that Ishmael might live before You!” 19 Then God said: “No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall beget twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. 21 But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this set time next year.” 22 Then He finished talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.
It is quite clear that God told Abraham that the covenant would be established through Sarah's son, Issac. So it is true that there was only one son as far as the covenant was concerned.
What did Jesus Drink on the Cross?
"They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink."
Matthew 27:34
Christ tasted the drink, and refused it when He found out it's contents.
"And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he received it not."
Mark 15:23
If someone hands something to you, and you look at it, determine that you do not want it, and hand it back, have you received it?
With regards to the verses about seeing God, is there a verse that specifies what is meant. I don't recall one that says, "If anyone sees God in His fullness, they will die." The only verses I remember say things like, "no one has seen God at any time." If that verse is available would you mind giving me the chapter and verse so I can look it up. Thanks.
Also, with regards to Abraham's sons, I think the point the sister was trying to make is that the verse claims a "one and only son", when he did have 2, and according to a verse, hmmmmm, in Deuteronomy I believe, it specifically says that if a man's first child is by one woman and the 2nd born to another, there is no difference between the two children. If the firstborn was born from the wife who is not his favourite, that child still holds first-born status. (Of course the bible words it far more eloquently than I just did. lol) I'm too tired to look it up, but if you're not familiar with this verse I would be more than happy to do that.
Peace to you,
Hana
"Whoever is deprived of gentleness is deprived of all good" (Sahîh Muslim, Sunan Abî Dawûd)
The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen, nor touched...but are felt in the heart.
-Helen Keller
With regards to the verses about seeing God, is there a verse that specifies what is meant. I don't recall one that says, "If anyone sees God in His fullness, they will die." The only verses I remember say things like, "no one has seen God at any time." If that verse is available would you mind giving me the chapter and verse so I can look it up. Thanks.
Also, with regards to Abraham's sons, I think the point the sister was trying to make is that the verse claims a "one and only son", when he did have 2, and according to a verse, hmmmmm, in Deuteronomy I believe, it specifically says that if a man's first child is by one woman and the 2nd born to another, there is no difference between the two children. If the firstborn was born from the wife who is not his favourite, that child still holds first-born status. (Of course the bible words it far more eloquently than I just did. lol) I'm too tired to look it up, but if you're not familiar with this verse I would be more than happy to do that.
Peace to you,
Hana
I can't think of a specific verse. It is more like a general principle from multiple verses to numerous to post here.
Ge 19:11 "And let them be ready for the third day. For on the third day the LORD will come down upon Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people.
12 "You shall set bounds for the people all around, saying, 'Take heed to yourselves that you do not go up to the mountain or touch its base. Whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death.
13 'Not a hand shall touch him, but he shall surely be stoned or shot with an arrow; whether man or beast, he shall not live.' When the trumpet sounds long, they shall come near the mountain."
Ex 28:33 "And upon its hem you shall make pomegranates of blue, purple, and scarlet, all around its hem, and bells of gold between them all around:
34 "a golden bell and a pomegranate, a golden bell and a pomegranate, upon the hem of the robe all around.
35 "And it shall be upon Aaron when he ministers, and its sound will be heard when he goes into the holy place before the LORD and when he comes out, that he may not die.
Ex 29:35 "Thus you shall do to Aaron and his sons, according to all that I have commanded you. Seven days you shall consecrate them.
36 "And you shall offer a bull every day as a sin offering for atonement. You shall cleanse the altar when you make atonement for it, and you shall anoint it to sanctify it.
37 "Seven days you shall make atonement for the altar and sanctify it. And the altar shall be most holy. Whatever touches the altar must be holy.
Maybe that Expression came from the Bible doesnt make it right.
One site I found believes this means North, South, East, and West, from all directions.
Just wondering, if what is meant is God in fullness, then John1:18 didnt write that properly?
Jesus came down from Heaven. He therefore has seen God.
n 6:41 The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, "I am the bread which came down from heaven." 42 And they said, "Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, 'I have come down from heaven'?" 43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, "Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 "It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.
46 "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
On the 4 corners discussion. Doug is correct, it was a metaphor. The 4 corners of the earth, the 4 winds, etc are all metaphors for directions. As I could say "People from all four corners of America gathered in Possum Hollow, Alabama"...for example. As far as I know there isn't a Possum Hollow, Alabama.
On the 4 corners discussion. Doug is correct, it was a metaphor.
No, it's not. Christians literally believed that the world was flat before it got debunked during the Renaissance. The metaphorical use of the the earth having corners was not evident during pre-Christ era. People were prosecuted for believing the earth was round, solely for the reason that the Church found the "round earth" idea outrageous due to it's contradiction with the Bible.
Last edited by QuranStudy; 09-05-2006 at 09:45 PM.
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aren't you asking too much? Can't you make this punishment a little lighter and pick some line you find important? 
But if you are referring to "lines" about Quran, than sorry i doubt i'll respond. As a Christian on Muslim board i don't feel it's a place for me to comment on Quran. you will quickly disargree with me...
theres only been one version, unchanged.
doesnt make it right.
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