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Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

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    Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

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    First of all, let me state that I do not have any personal opinion as to wheter the Palestines are "The Tribe of Esau" as mentioned in the old testament, or not. But it has become clear to me that many Israel schoolars consider this to be a fact, and this should be on any muslims mind these days.

    The Bible forsees the destruction of Esaus tribe by Israel. Israel, tired by years of conflict and threats from their neighbouring countries are now pulling their forces out of the occupied areas, creating a buffer zone between themselves and palestinians. Is this only because they are being protective, or do they have other plans?

    Obviously you may say that The Bible is false, and that there is no way the jewish people are "Gods people". (I myself, am not jewish..) However, never in modern history have so few dominated so many so thoroughly. The Jews are outnumbered 35 to 1, and they still dominate the Arabs. How humiliating it must be for the Arabs not to be able to defeat such an outnumbered foe. Furthermore, it has not mattered that the Arabs succeeded in bringing the U.S.S.R. into the conflict on their side. Even though the Arabs were trained and equipped by the Russians, they have not been able to defeat Israel.

    Any reader who are interested in the events of today should read this article carefully. Why should you read it, if it is not true? Because this is what some powerfull men in Israel believes. PS, there may be some links in the article, they are not likely to work as these are news for subscribers of a special network. Actually I am not allowed to show this, but I have chosen to do it anyway.

    ----------------------------------------

    "HOUSE OF ESAU" SHOWN TO BE TODAY'S PALESTINIANS

    In Israel

    NEWS BRIEF: "Jordan's Disengagement Connection", by Jimmy DeYoung, Israel My Glory, November/December, 2005

    "The Jewish people, God's Chosen People, were promised a land that God, through the ancient Jewish prophets, told them they would possess at the time of of the coming of Messiah. The land, promised in 38 different passages of Scripture, including the Gaza Strip and the area in northern Samaria that the Israelis evacuated over the summer."

    "As for the Palestinians, leading Orthodox Jewish Bible scholars believe they are the descendants of Amalek, the grandson of Esau (Genesis 36:12)."

    Let us quickly review this Scripture passage given above, but let us start in verse 9:

    "And this is the history of the descendants of Esau the father of the Edomites in the hill country of Seir. These are the names of Esau's sons: Eliphaz, the son of Adah, Esau's wife, and Reuel, the son of Basemath, Esau's wife. And the sons of Eliphaz were Teman, Omar, Zepho, Gatam, and Kenaz. And Timna was a concubine of Eliphaz, Esau's son; and she bore Amalek to Eliphaz. These are the sons of Adah, Esau's wife." (Genesis 36:9-12; Parallel Bible, KJV/Amplified Bible Commentary)

    This passage identifies this particular line of genealogy as "the descendants of Esau the father of the Edomites". Remember this identification, for we shall be returning to it shortly as we discuss the application of this prophecy as it applies to the Palestinians living outside Israel -- in Jordan.

    This one sentence is simply dynamite! It literally says that the present-day Palestinians, living in Israel, are the descendents of the "House of Esau". Why is that important? It is critically important because God breathed an End of the Age prophecy against the "House of Esau" in Obadiah 15-18, one of the most startling prophecies in the Bible -- and one working its way forward toward fulfillment.

    "But on Mount Zion [in Jerusalem] there shall be deliverance [for those who escape], and it shall be holy; and the house of Jacob shall possess its [own former] possessions. The house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame , but the house of Esau shall be stubble; they shall kindle and burn them and consume them, and there shall be no survivor of the house of Esau, for the Lord has spoken it." [Verses 17-18; Emphasis added]

    Let us pause for a moment to examine the identification of the Palestinians as the "House of Esau" from yet another angle. In U.S. Army Intelligence, I was taught to look for "signs on the ground" to either arrive at my position or to prove that my thesis was correct and moving forward. When I thoroughly studied the above passage, I was struck by the prophecy that the nation of Israel (Houses of Jacob and Joseph) were going to destroy the "House of Esau" by some kind of "fire" -- a fire that would totally annihilate the descendents of Esau.

    Realizing that this prophecy was nearly 2,500 years old and set in the Old Testament, I concluded that a destruction by fire in that time period would have to mean that the Houses of Jacob and Joseph had to be living in close proximity to the "House of Esau". A weapon of fire is a close-quarter weapon.

    Further, this prophecy suggests that Israel resorted to a destruction by fire because the Houses of Jacob and Joseph were in close-quarter conflict which could not be resolved by any means other than annihilation by fire.

    Do we see the nation of Israel (Houses of Jacob and Joseph) in close quarter proximity with an implacable foe? Yes, we certainly do! We see that Israel has been in close-quarter conflict with the Palestinians, a conflict which has been ongoing since the early 1970's, where Yassir Arafat's terrorists murdered 11 Israeli athletes in the 1972 Olympics in Munich. This conflict has literally tried the soul of Israelis of all political and religious persuasions.

    In June, 1990, I read an editorial in the Jewish Press which indicated that Israel's patience was at an end, and that the next major war was going to result in the annihilation of Israel's implacable enemies. . This editorial stated that a decision had been made at the highest military and civilian leadership levels of the Israeli government that the next Arab-Israeli war would be the war in which the Israeli Defense Force would annihilate the entire populations of the Arabs who hated them so badly. These Jewish leaders were sick and tired of constantly being attacked, winning the war, but then not winning the peace.

    Further, this top Israeli leadership was concerned that, in due time, the Arabs would possess Weapons of Mass Destruction which could be delivered by suicide bombers, at which point Israel was surely doomed. Therefore, top Israeli leadership in 1990 had decided to annihilate entire populations during the next Arab - Israeli war.

    Therefore, we can see that top Israeli leadership -- both civilian and military -- had decided that they were going to destroy the total population of the Arabs. Just two years later, the world learned of the Oslo Accords, which we believe is the greatest trap ever sprung upon a people or upon the world. In the guise of wanting peaceful coexistence with the Palestinians, Israel promised through Oslo to withdraw from huge chunks of her land in order that the Palestinians could have their own state. However, the truth truly does lie in the opposite direction of the stated rhetoric (NEWS1558), for what Israel is really doing is strategically withdrawing her settlers so they will not be killed along with the Palestinians.

    The crucial element to understanding that the Palestinians comprise the "House of Esau" thus depends upon several factors:

    1) They are physically descendents from Amalek, grandson of Esau, as noted above;

    2) A senior Rabbi emailed me from Jerusalem who told me that the Palestinians were the modern-day descendents of the House of Esau! These Palestinians lived in both Edom, a province of Jordan, and within Israel under the leadership of Yassir Arafat!

    3) In late November, 1999, I was invited to the 2-day Calgary Bible Prophecy Conference as a speaker. While there, I was introduced to a retired Bible professor at the Calgary Bible College. I asked him if he knew if the "House of Esau" spoken of in Obadiah had a modern-day descendent; immediately, with no hesitation, he nodded his head in the affirmative, and said that, "Yes", there was a modern-day descendent, and they were known as the Palestinians.

    4) Middle Eastern events were daily filled with the close-quarter conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, a conflict which cannot end until one side is eradicated, given the hatred the Palestinians possess against the Jew. This conflict was "proof on the ground" which any experienced Army Intelligence analyst would look for to see if his understanding was correct.

    5) In NEWS1422 (Posted October, 2000) I also noted that, since no Jewish leader -- even the hard-hearted Illuminati -- would find it acceptable to kill tens of thousands of Jews when their armed forces destroyed the Palestinians by fire. Therefore, I stated that we would see a major effort to see the populations separated, both by a barrier and by removing the settlers from the territories slated to be temporarily transferred to Palestinian control.

    Thus, we have five proofs that Obadiah 15-18 was in the process of being fulfilled at the End of the Age, just as verse 15 of this passage indicates.

    However, Jimmy DeYoung gives us even more reasons to understand that these Palestinians are the "House of Esau". Let us go back to his article:

    "These are the people whom God said He would have war with throughout all generations (Ex 17:16)." (Ibid.)

    Did you know that God singled out Amalek for a declaration of war "from generation to generation"? Listen to this verse;

    "And he said, Because theirs is a hand against the throne of the Lord, the Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation." Parallel Bible, KJV/Amplified Bible Commentary)

    Now, DeYoung goes to the prophet Malachi in his identification of the present-day Palestinians.

    "The Jewish prophet Malachi revealed that the Edomites (all of the descendents of Esau) would one day return and rebuild; and the Lord would call their borders the 'Territory of Wickedness' (Mal 1:4). The Edomites were once headquarted in the city of Petra in Edom, the biblical name for the lower third of modern-day Jordan." (Ibid.)

    This last sentence brings us to the final portion of our examination today. The original home of the Edomites (all of the descendents of Esau) was in the province of Edom, which today is part of Jordan. Since World War II, the Palestinians in Israel could have elected to go home to Edom, for that is their real homeland. However, the King of Jordan would not allow such a return, for the reasons which Jimmy DeYoung observes is facing the current king of Jordan,

    "Turmoil in neighboring Iraq, terrorism in Israel, and plots against Jordan all have King Abdullah keeping a close watch as the Palestinians take control of the disputed areas with a promise to continue their armed struggle against the State of Israel. To better understand King Abdullah's vigilance, we must remember that more than 65 percent of Jordan's population is made up of Palestinians." (Ibid.)

    Now, we are considering the Palestinians in the country of Jordan, which comprise 65% of all the citizens of Jordan. This reality means that the King -- who is Hashemite -- is a minority ruler. For this reason, his security forces have to constantly be on guard against assassination attempts. King Hussein of Jordan threw his elite army units against Yassir Arafat's PLO in September, 1970, in order to keep his throne! The beginning of this war is called "Black September" amongst the Arabs. Listen to an encyclopedia account:

    "September 1970 is known as the Black September in the Arab history and sometimes is referred to as the 'era of regrettable events'. It was a month when Hashemite King Hussein of Jordan moved to quash an attempt of Palestinian organizations to overturn his monarchy, the attack resulted in heavy civilian Palestinian casualties. The armed conflict lasted until July 1971." ("Black September in Jordan", Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

    As you can see, the Jordanians have always feared the majority population of Palestinians, which explains their consistent background approachment with Israel. The reality is that no one is the entire Islamic Middle East likes the Palestinians; rather, they all hate them and want them dead. Listen as a Pentagon report makes this fact very clear.

    " "The Arab war plan does, indeed, call for the annihilation of the Jewish State, but there is another target. The Palestinian Arabs have been a hated thorn to most of the Arab world. While the Arab dictators used the Palestinian Arabs as a terrorist front to recover Arab pride for past battlefield defeats, they never allowed them to settle as citizens in their nations. They know that once these clever, hostile people have an operating state, they can and will cause havoc in the Arab world. They will constantly demand money, using the 'or else' blackmail, as in the past. Therefore, during this coming war, the two targets are both the Jews and the Palestinian Arabs." ("1997: The Next Arab-Israeli War", by Emanuel A. Winston, A Middle East Analyst and Commentator, The Jewish Press, Week of January 31, 1997, Vol. XLVII, No. 5, p. 43 and 53.).

    Now, going back to Obadiah 15-18, we see God's prophecy that this coming war between the Houses of Jacob and Joseph will result in a 100% annihilation of the House of Esau -- whom we now know to be the Palestinians. For this complete annihilation of the Palestinian people to occur as the prophecy dictates, does this mean that the Palestinians living in Jordan, mostly in the province of Edom, have to also be destroyed?

    Interestingly, a parallel passage in Isaiah 34 foretells of a complete annihilation of "Edom, the descendants of Esau", at the End of the Age. Let us review portions of this prophecy:

    After describing the End of the Age slaughter against all nations of the earth in verses 1-4, God turns His attention to the people of Edom:

    "Because My sword has been bathed and equipped in heaven, behold, it shall come down upon Edom [the descendants of Esau], upon the people whom I have doomed for judgment.

    6The sword of the Lord is filled with blood [of sacrifices], it is gorged and greased with fatness--with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams. For the Lord has a sacrifice in Bozrah [capital of Edom] and a great slaughter in the land of Edom.

    7And the wild oxen shall fall with them, and the [young] bullocks with the [old and mighty] bulls; and their land shall be drunk and soaked with blood, and their dust made rich with fatness.

    8For the Lord has a day of vengeance, a year of recompense, for the cause of Zion." (Isaiah 34:5-8; Parallel Bible, KJV/Amplified Bible Commentary)

    Whenever you read or hear of terrorist attacks carried out by Palestinians against Jews, you can rest assured that God is watching, is taking notes, and is just awaiting His "day of vengeance, a year of recompense, for the cause of Zion."

    Now, let us return to this passage, for God has terrible plans for even the land on which these descendants of Esau are living.

    "And the streams of Edom will be turned into pitch and its dust into brimstone, and its land will become burning pitch. The burning of Edom shall not be quenched night or day; its smoke shall go up forever. From generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it forever and ever." (Isaiah 34:9-10; Parallel Bible, KJV/Amplified Bible Commentary)

    Therefore, we should expect that, as Israel is moving to annihilate the Palestinians soon after they have completed their security barrier and have withdrawn her last settler from selected areas of the West Bank, Israel will also have a plan to launch an attack which will destroy the Palestinians in Jordan, causing "the streams of Edom (to be) be turned into pitch and its dust into brimstone, and its land will become burning pitch".

    These are harsh statements, and we make them with a heavy heart, for we wish the death of no one. But, the End of the Age is the time when God does destroy entire nations and peoples. Since we know the appearance of Antichrist is close, we should expect that these horrific prophecies will begin to come to pass.

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    Re: Israel and the Arabs

    More on Israel (Again, I am not a jew, just interested in the events of today):

    -----------------------------------------

    ARAB BEWARE!! AS YOU SCHEME TO DESTROY ISRAEL, YOU HAVE EMBARKED UPON "MISSION IMPOSSIBLE"!

    You might consider my article today to be an open warning to all Arab leaders that they had best stop attacking God's people, the Jews. They have no concept that they are opposing Almighty God. Yes, there are pretender Jews in the land today, and right now, they are in charge. Jesus foretold of this kind of Jew at the End of the Age, which is why His prophecy is found in the Book of Revelation. Listen to Jesus' Words:

    "I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." (Rev 2:9)

    "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie." (Rev 3:9)

    During the mid-point of the Tribulation, God is going to allow Antichrist to slaughter these pretender Jews, which at that time will represent 66% of the total population of Israel (Zechariah 13:8-9).

    However, God still views genuine Jews as His Chosen People and Israel as His Chosen Nation. Israel is still the "apple of His eye".

    As we stated in NEWS1010, "Israel Key To End Time Events" God had repeatedly stated, in both Old and New Testaments, that He was going to restore Israel back to her land in the 'latter days', and would restore His betrothal to her. In other words, God was going to deal with Israel, again, as His Chosen People.

    Since this is the case, let us first examine some of the promises God made to Israel, before Joshua led the nation into their 'Promised Land'. In the book of Deuteronomy, we read such promises as:

    * "The Lord has declared this day that you are His peculiar people." (26:18)

    * God promised that, if the Jews would obey His commandments, He would "set you high above all the nations of the earth", and would bless them in all manner of living and commerce. (28:1-14)

    * God promised no military defeat, "When thou goest out to battle against thine enemies, and seest horses, and chariots, and a people more than thou, be not afraid of them: for the LORD thy God is with thee, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt... For the LORD your God is he that goeth with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you."

    Think of that promise!! God will fight for Israel, giving her the victory, especially in situations where the Israelites were badly outnumbered! In fact, God gives some interesting insight into the totality of the victory He would give them what He promised, "The LORD shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways." (Deuteronomy 28:7)

    Again, In Deuteronomy 7:23, God promised to cause great panic to set in amongst the enemies of Israel as they were taking the Promised Land. [Note: The Bible Commentary, p. 222, states that the meaning of panic is in the original language).

    Let us look at some startling statistics concerning Israel and her Arab neighbors. Tiny Israel, smaller than the state of New Jersey, is surrounded by a sea of hostile Arabs that want to see Israel annihilated and cast into the sea. Consider the statistics:

    Total Arab Population Surrounding Israel = 232,434,000 (Source: United Nations World Population)

    Total Population of Israel = 6,725,000 (Source: United Nations World Population)

    Never in modern history have so few dominated so many so thoroughly. The Jews are outnumbered 35 to 1, and they still dominate the Arabs. How humiliating it must be for the Arabs not to be able to defeat such an outnumbered foe! Furthermore, it has not mattered that the Arabs succeeded in bringing the U.S.S.R. into the conflict on their side. Even though the Arabs were trained and equipped by the Russians, they have not been able to defeat Israel.

    Does anyone here sense the Presence of Almighty God? Surely, no one who carefully considers this matter can reach no other conclusion. It would seem to me that, if the Arabs simply lined up 200 million people, armed with anything, they could overwhelm Israel with their sheer numbers. Yet, they do not, and God's protection is the only reason the Arabs cannot win.

    Today, the Arabs are trying to win at the bargaining table what they could never win at the battlefield. And, incredibly, the Israelis seem to be giving it to them, originally led by the old War Hero, Yitzak Rabin, before he was assassinated. Time and again, I asked myself how battle tested Army Generals like Rabin, and later, Sharon, could be possibly pursuing policies that were so obviously militarily disastrous, policies that could likely so weaken Israel that she might be overcome by her Arab enemies. I have a theory, but first, I need to give you some prophetic background; we need to study some of God's prophecies concerning His restored Israel in the "Latter Days"

    God has much to say about how He will treat Israel after He restored her to her land, in the "Latter Days". Generally, God will be protecting Israel as He did in the Old Testament, before she began to so terribly sin against His Commandments.

    But, God is also going to remarkably demonstrate His Power and Glory in the "Latter Days", by stirring up the peoples around Israel to attack her, only so He can miraculously deliver her. The centerpiece of God's love and concern for Israel is Jerusalem. Listen to God's Plan for Jerusalem in these "Latter Days".

    "Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it." (Zechariah 12:2-3)

    Now, I appeal to everyone to carefully understand what God is foretelling in this remarkable prophecy, made almost 2,500 years ago! After He brings Israel back to her land, God is going to deliberately create the following situation to develop:

    1). Little tiny Jerusalem is going to be the center of attention and agitation, for all the peoples who are living around it. These peoples, the Arabs living around Jerusalem, are going to be mightily agitated over Israeli control of Jerusalem.

    2). The Arab peoples surrounding Jerusalem are going to come against it in such a way that the situation will appear as though they have Jerusalem surrounded, as in a siege. Later, in the Great Tribulation, we know that this is going to literally happen, i.e., an overwhelming enemy force is going to lay siege to Jerusalem, and will have begun to enter the city, when Messiah comes from Heaven to destroy them by speaking one Word. This annihilation is foretold in Revelation 16:16, and is called the Battle of Armageddon.

    Certainly, today's newspapers tell a story that exactly corresponds to this prophetic picture, above, described in Paragraphs 1 and 2. The Arabs have Israel, and Jerusalem, completely surrounded in such an overwhelming manner that the average Israeli citizen must feel as though he is in a siege. And, the Arabs have succeeded in manipulating the Palestinians so that they are creating an Arab state within the tiny nation of Israel, a sharp dagger seemingly poised just inches away from the Jewish heart. In fact, when the "Oslo Peace Process" is completely carried out, Israel will be nearly cut off, North from the South, with only a narrow strip of land a few miles wide, joining the two segments.

    One does not have to be a military genius to understand that, at that point, Israel will be in dire peril, militarily. If an attack came from within the newly created Arab state, Arab forces will have little difficulty cutting off the Northern segment of Israel from her Southern segment. Arab forces might be able to defeat Israel before her armed forces could be fully mobilized [it takes 72 hours to mobilize Israel's reserves].

    Leaders like Arafat had always made it quite plain that he continually looked to the Koran for his current strategy in dealing with Israel. In the Koran, the Prophet Mohammed states that, if the Arabs face an enemy so strong they cannot defeat them, they are to sue for peace. Once peace gets underway, the Arabs are to secretly build up their forces, while simultaneously trying to lull their strong enemy to a false sense of security. Then, when the time is right, the Arab forces will spring into military action, totally defeating their enemy. This is Arafat's ruse, and he has been caught on tape explaining this ruse to other Arabs!

    3). The final point God makes is that all who try to destroy Jerusalem shall, themselves, be cut into pieces. The picture here is that of a person falling upon a huge rock, being smashed into many pieces. Arab leaders -- are you listening?

    In Amos 9:11, God foretells that, in the Last Days, he will cause the Old Testament Temple worship to be reestablished ["raise up the tabernacle of David ..."]. Then, in verse 12, God says that this restored Israel will possess the remnant of Edom. The people of Edom are the descendants of Esau, Jacob's older brother, and the present land which they inhabit is East of the River Jordan, which is mostly the land of Jordan, including the Palestinians.

    In Verse 14, God foretells that His newly restored Israel shall be very prosperous both agriculturally and economically. Then, in verse 15, God says, "And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God." Do you hear that, Mr. Ahmadinejad, Mr. Assad? Once God restores Israel back to her land, in the "Latter Days", He will personally assume responsibility for protecting her, so much so that He confidently promises that the Jews will no longer be torn up out of their land.

    Daniel 12:1 gives an interesting picture of how God's protection might be carried out. Speaking of the time of the End of the Age, God foretold that Israel was going to face such a threat of annihilation that the great angelic princely angel, Michael, is going to have to stand up from his throne to deliver Israel.

    All Arab leaders who are currently plotting against Israel (and they all are) should take these warnings to heart. Of course they won't, because they despise the God of Israel, the Almighty Creator. They are literally fighting against God. This is why they have never been able to defeat Israel in the past, and why they never will in the future. All their plotting and scheming will not only result in defeat, it will result in total annihilation of their nation!

    Consider Obadiah. Verse 15 abruptly shifts the emphasis to the "Day of the Lord", which is the End of the Age. The entire book is written to the Edomites, the descendants of Esau, who had so thoroughly afflicted Israel all throughout history. In verse 15, God foretells that He will bring judgments upon Edom and the entire house of Esau (these are the Arabs immediately surrounding Israel). God is telling that His physical judgment will begin to fall upon these Arabs for the way in which they have consistently mistreated Israel in the past [and, it would seem, in the present].

    But, God uses extremely strong language here. He says, in verse 16, that these Arabs will be forced to completely drink from God's cup of Judgment, and they will be destroyed "as though they had not been". Wow! Does that mean that every Edomites (Palestinian) man, woman, and child will be killed? That is what the language says, and one thing I have learned in studying Prophetic Scripture is that God truly is literal, no matter what Modernists would have you believe.

    In verse 17. God states that, on Mount Zion, which is in Jerusalem, the people shall be delivered, shall be holy once again, and that "the house of Jacob shall possess its own former possessions". (Bible Commentary, p. 1027)

    Now, that is quite a statement! what could it possibly mean that, on Mount Zion, it shall be holy once again? I think it probably means that the Jews will be able to rebuild their Temple on the Temple Mount, which is Mount Zion. And, it also probably means that the Arabic Dome of the Rock will be torn down. Interestingly, the Plan of the New World Order calls for such a destruction of the Dome of the Rock, on page 233! Such a destruction, of course, will not be by human hands, but by an "expected earthquake". The New World Order author, Peter Lemesurier, states plainly that such a destruction would allow the Jews to rebuild their Temple, thus enhancing the "Messianic initiative". This means that such destruction would take place after the New World Order Christ has appeared, and has convinced the Jews that he is their long-awaited Messiah. This is just another exciting instance where New World Order Plans parallel Biblical prophecy.

    Now, let us return to Obadiah, verse 18, states that a "fire" will be in the house of Jacob and a "flame" in the house of Joseph, which of course, speaks of the entire nation, Israel. This flaming fire evidently explodes out of the nation of Israel, absolutely engulfing the "House of Esau", burning them to stubble, consuming them so completely that there shall be no survivor of the House of Esau (today's Palestinians - Read NEWS2095)

    Suddenly, all of Israel's immediate Palestinian enemies shall be totally gone, annihilated, by some kind of fire coming out of Israel. Verses 19-21 foretell that the Israelites will immediately possess all the land that was formerly inhabited by the House of Esau. This land corresponds to the following current Arab nations in the Middle East:

    Now, let us speak of this "fire" exploding out of Israel and consuming the House of Esau. In June, 1990, I read an editorial in the Boston Jewish Advocate. The Jewish author was most adamant in describing the deadly threat that would exist if the Arab nations ever possessed tactical nuclear weapons. The opinion of these military leaders was that Israel had to carry out a preemptive strike before the Arabs could possess tactical nuclear weapons.

    And, this meant total annihilation of the Arab nations, not just "winning" another war against them. Every war Israel has fought, since returning to her land, has only set the stage for the next war. In the case with nuclear weapons, Israel must totally annihilate her Arab enemy, for he otherwise would respond quickly with nuclear weapons. Total annihilation.

    Israel has already decided to go to nuclear weapons if an Arab threat were deemed to be overwhelming. During the 1991 Gulf War, the Israeli Government warned King Hussein of Iraq that, if he launched any weapons of biological or chemical nature, they would respond with nuclear annihilation. So, the decision has already been made; it is just awaiting the precise timing and place of the use.

    Now, we need to return to our discussion of the "Oslo Peace Process" now under way between tiny Israel and her Arab neighbors. The proposed "Land for Peace" process makes no military sense, as every military man in the world knows fully. Yet, the old generals, Rabin and Sharon, were fully pursuing just such a suicidal plan. Why?

    I think, and this is purely personal opinion, that Israel's generals and top political leaders have sprung a trap for the Arabs to fall into, aiming directly at the instructions in the Koran of trying to use the "Peace Process" as a ruse to annihilate your enemy at the proper time, when he has let his guard down. I believe it possible that successive Israeli Prime Ministers decided to give the appearance to Arafat and the Arabs that he is giving in to their insistent demands for a Palestinian state within the heart of Israel, knowing full well they will use this state as the means with which to destroy Israel. With the entire world witnessing the complicity of the Arabs, in preparing to attack, Israel will strike preemptively.

    While the Palestinians will be completely annihilated in fulfillment of Obadiah 15-18, the other Arab nations will be so destroyed their government will likely fall:

    In Scripture, God foretells "Latter Day" judgments on these nations:



    * Isaiah 13, a mournful judgment against Babylon of old, which today is Iraq

    * Isaiah 15-16, a mournful judgment against Moab, which is East of the Jordan River, and one of Jordan's provinces today.

    * Isaiah 17, a mournful judgment against Damascus, capital of Syria. Damascus is known today as the "world's most continuously occupied city". Since it was established, Damascus has never been totally destroyed; she has continuously been inhabited. Yet, God's prediction is that she will cease to be a city and will become a heap of ruins (17:1)

    * Isaiah 19, a mournful judgment against Egypt, for destruction.

    Each of these verses begin with God's standard phrase of judgment, "The mournful, inspired prediction, a burden to be lifted up". And, they have never been fulfilled. In contrast, the similar predictions of judgments found in Isaiah 21 through 23 have been historically fulfilled.

    I find it very interesting, also, that these nations, listed above, are not listed in the nations who are going to be marching with Russia, from the south and the north of Israel, as foretold in Ezekiel 38-39! "Persia" (Iran) is mentioned, but none of these nations, above.

    Understand this: in these last days of the age, Israel will be constantly attacked, and her defeat will seem imminent. But, God has promised that He will fight for her, annihilating her long time Arab enemies. How and when that "fire" and "flame" come exploding out of Israel will be a matter of conjecture until it actually happens.

    But, this one thing I know: All other Arab leaders plotting Israel's destruction are engaged in "Mission Impossible". Their efforts will only result in their own destruction.

    I wish Bill Lambert, the occultic leader of the House of Theosophy, to have the last word. In his seminar, "Possible and Probable Events In the Future", held in the Boston Headquarters of the House of Theosophy, on August 18, 1991, Lambert stated that the Middle East was a key as far as producing the New World Order Christ. He stated:

    "The impetus toward this type of settlement is made possible only because of a general fear of war. This fear of war must be maintained until the desired political and religious changes have been instituted."

    Watch Israel, one of God's keys to determining the imminent timing of the New World Order.

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    DaSangarTalib's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

    format_quote Originally Posted by izmi View Post
    The Quran says in 3-126 that victory comes only from Allah.
    As Allah has granted victory to the Israelis in every war with Arab armies, it can be concluded that He agrees with the Jews settling back in their homeland.
    lol yea sure

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    Christian_dove's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

    format_quote Originally Posted by Fight&Die4Allah View Post
    lol yea sure
    Point being?

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    Re: Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

    I think that izmi raises an interesting point. According to Muslims, every little thing that happens on this world is due to a direct decision by Allah. After all, the great "proof" that Muhammed offered his followers centuries ago was precisely the fact that he said he would win a battle because Allah was on his side and he actually won the battle. Everybody concluded that he was right, Allah was helping him.

    What about today? It is clear that Muslims aren't winning battles any longer. Is there a point at which Muslims will have to conclude that they must be wrong since Allah is clearly not favoring them? After all Allah has to want the truth to prevail. If centuries pass and Muslims never again win a battle, isn't that proof that Islam is not what God really wants?

    What would be the answer of a Muslim to this question? I am really interested. Thanks a lot.

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    Re: Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

    the muslims are weak ...
    do u think or see those palestinians with weapons?? if they do: do they even compare with those of the Jews (which they happen to receive from america?)
    so does it make sense for the jews to win? YES
    theyve got it all weapons soldiers and power

    and most imp.THEY GOT AMERICAS AID...!!!
    the palestinians dont have any of the muslims or arab countries aid!!!!
    so common sense which is not so common says that the jews win

    its not because god forgot us he will never but we forgot him and we have weakened in ur faith and so we are getting wat we deserve,...

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    ygalg's Avatar Limited Member
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    Re: Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

    format_quote Originally Posted by shorouk View Post
    the muslims are weak ...
    do u think or see those palestinians with weapons?? if they do: do they even compare with those of the Jews (which they happen to receive from america?)
    so does it make sense for the jews to win? YES
    theyve got it all weapons soldiers and power

    and most imp.THEY GOT AMERICAS AID...!!!
    the palestinians dont have any of the muslims or arab countries aid!!!!
    so common sense which is not so common says that the jews win

    its not because god forgot us he will never but we forgot him and we have weakened in ur faith and so we are getting wat we deserve,...
    you answer is not consistent to the nature of the question been raise
    you give an atheistic POV while folks here like to know the theological answer

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    ygalg's Avatar Limited Member
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    Re: Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

    apology in advance your last answer was sufficient.

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    Turin Turambar's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

    Dear shorouk,

    It seems that we keep bumping into each other in this forum. But unfortunately your answer is not satisfactory. I will repeat what ygalg said: your answer is for the most part a practical one and not a theological one. I guess that he later apologized because he realized that you added at the end

    "its not because god forgot us he will never but we forgot him and we have weakened in ur faith and so we are getting wat we deserve,..."

    And that should qualify as a theological explanation. But it is not enough for me. In fact palestinians today are more islamic than before and not less. Witness the election of Hamas instead of the secular PLO of Arafat. But palestinians and Muslims in general are still defeated.


    So my point still stands. After how many years of defeat will Muslims realize that they are not actually following God's will? At some point they have to accept that God simply doesn't want Islam to expand, otherwise why is he dealing them only failures?

    I would like to hear a islamic answer to that question

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    ygalg's Avatar Limited Member
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    Re: Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

    Turin Turambar

    you are correct, I was not aware of the last words of shorouk
    not until I submit my own.

    still it is no satisfactory. I agree

  14. #11
    abdul Majid's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

    format_quote Originally Posted by Turin Turambar View Post
    Dear shorouk,

    It seems that we keep bumping into each other in this forum. But unfortunately your answer is not satisfactory. I will repeat what ygalg said: your answer is for the most part a practical one and not a theological one. I guess that he later apologized because he realized that you added at the end

    "its not because god forgot us he will never but we forgot him and we have weakened in ur faith and so we are getting wat we deserve,..."

    And that should qualify as a theological explanation. But it is not enough for me. In fact palestinians today are more islamic than before and not less. Witness the election of Hamas instead of the secular PLO of Arafat. But palestinians and Muslims in general are still defeated.


    So my point still stands. After how many years of defeat will Muslims realize that they are not actually following God's will? At some point they have to accept that God simply doesn't want Islam to expand, otherwise why is he dealing them only failures?

    I would like to hear a islamic answer to that question

    whats all this defeat about, why are you over looking the wars that have been won??? ex: agaist the roman army of about 100,000 muslims were only 13,000 and they won!!! you can look that up !!

    GOD doesnt want ISLAM TO EXPAND ???????
    HELLO this is a religion from GOD, A MERCY FROM GOD!! EVEN JEWISH AND CHRISTIANS CAN ADMIT THAT, ISLAM IS A REAL AND LAST RELIGION, MOHAMED(PBH) IS THE LASTTTT PROPHET!!!!!
    THEN WHY IS ISLAM THE FASTEST GROWING RELIGION IN THE WORLDDDD !!!!

  15. #12
    Salaam's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

    israelbarcode 2 - Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

  16. #13
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    Re: Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

    What about today? It is clear that Muslims aren't winning battles any longer. Is there a point at which Muslims will have to conclude that they must be wrong since Allah is clearly not favoring them? After all Allah has to want the truth to prevail. If centuries pass and Muslims never again win a battle, isn't that proof that Islam is not what God really wants?
    I don't think so, because Islam isn't dependent on winning or losing battles. If that was the case then Islam would have ended with the Mongols whom muslims weren't able to defeat either.

    However, I do believe muslims should reflect on themselves and see where they are wrong. Prophet (pbuh) prophesized that his ummah will resemble the ummah of Moses (pbuh), and God did punish Jews when most of them had forgotten the good part of the message (according to Quran) given to them. So we muslims should double check if we have forgotten the good part of the message from our hearts. If prophet (pbuh) was here, then what he would have asked us to behave and to do?
    Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

    It is not Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, and obedience to Allâh, etc.) that you turn your faces towards east and (or) west (in prayers); but Al-Birr is (the quality of) the one who believes in Allâh, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book, the Prophets and gives his wealth, in spite of love for it, to the kinsfolk, to the orphans, and to Al-Masâkîn (the poor), and to the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and to set slaves free, performs As-Salât, and gives the Zakât, and keep their word whenever they make a promise, and who are patient in extreme poverty and ailment (disease) and at the time of persecution, hardship, and war. Such are the people of the truth and they are Al-Muttaqûn (the pious).


  17. #14
    Turin Turambar's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

    To abdul Majid and Chuck:

    Thanks for your answers. I will address them separately.

    To abdul Majid: I am well aware that the Muslim armies won many wars in the past. That is how Islam expanded everywhere. I am sure that you are right when you mention those numbers (100,000 vs 13,000) although I had not heard about them. In any case, numbers are not really important. My point is different. What I am saying is that since Napoleon invaded Egypt in 1798 Muslim armies have never won a battle against non-Muslims and everywhere they have been losing power and influence. Could it be that God wanted Islam to prevail only during a certain period of history? After all, how could it be that Islam is losing all the battles if God wants it to expand until it prevails all over the world? It makes no sense to imagine God wanting Islam to expand but frustrated because something is opposing Him. If he is all-powerful, nothing can oppose his will. What happens in the world is exactly what he wants. And he seems to want Islam defeated. Could it be that exactly as Islam replaced the Jahiliya in Arabia now something new has to replace Islam and that is why God is causing the defeats of Islam?

    Regarding your second point, Jews and Christians DO NOT believe or accept that Muhammed is a prophet, let alone the "seal of the prophets". We have a very different impression about who he was. About the fact that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, I have my doubts about the fact because it is very difficult to measure how much is a religion growing in the world. I guess that when Muslims say that they probably refer to the population growth of those countries in which Muslims form a majority. But is that a source of strength or a proof that the religion is the right or true one? I think it is only due to the fact that Muslim countries tend to have very low levels of economic and social development so birth rates are very high. It is something shared by the countries of Subsaharan Africa and it shows weakness rather than strength.

    I will answer to Chuck in another post.

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    Turin Turambar's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

    To Chuck:

    Thanks again for your answer. I think that you are getting close to what I mean. You recognize that Muslims are losing, so to speak, and you wonder what is the reason. That is exactly what I am doing. The difference is that you seem to think that MORE Islam is the solution and I am advancing the theory that perhaps LESS Islam would be the solution. After all during these 200 years of defeats (more or less) Muslim countries have been in fact very Islamic. Most of them still are. It is only now that other ways of thinking (the modern world) are entering those societies and even now those new ways of thinking have a difficult time in most Islamic countries.

    And at the end Islam HAS to depend on winning or losing battles. Just for the sake of the argument, think for a moment of a global catastrophic war in which all Muslims are exterminated (not that I would like anything like that to happen). If there are no Muslims anymore, wasn't Islam defeated? And isn't the mere fact that Islam was defeated a proof that it was false to begin with? After all, what happens is what God wants. If God accepted the destruction of Muslims it means that he has different plans for us. And even without resorting to such a dramatic scenario, if we think of Muslims losing all battles until they are subordinated to non-Muslims, isn't that also a proof that God wants some other system to prevail?

  20. #16
    Chuck's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

    I am well aware that the Muslim armies won many wars in the past. That is how Islam expanded everywhere. I am sure that you are right when you mention those numbers (100,000 vs 13,000) although I had not heard about them. In any case, numbers are not really important. My point is different. What I am saying is that since Napoleon invaded Egypt in 1798 Muslim armies have never won a battle against non-Muslims and everywhere they have been losing power and influence. Could it be that God wanted Islam to prevail only during a certain period of history? After all, how could it be that Islam is losing all the battles if God wants it to expand until it prevails all over the world? It makes no sense to imagine God wanting Islam to expand but frustrated because something is opposing Him. If he is all-powerful, nothing can oppose his will. What happens in the world is exactly what he wants. And he seems to want Islam defeated. Could it be that exactly as Islam replaced the Jahiliya in Arabia now something new has to replace Islam and that is why God is causing the defeats of Islam?
    I see whats making the confusion.
    1. You are equating rise and fall of the civilizations with the success of a religion, which will continue to move up and down in the long-run imo. Allah do give worldly victory to the prophets. For example, prophet Moses, Muhammand, and he will give it to Jesus (pbut) upon his second coming, but these are not real victories for believers they are just signs and symbols. The actual victory is on the Day of Judgment when the believers will see their Lord, their God with their book of records on the right side. The prophet (pbuh) prophesized adversities and tribulations for muslims and Dajjal, but he also prophesied short victory of Islam all over the world with the return of Jesus (pbuh), but like I said it is not the actual victory, the actual victory is on the day of judgment.



    He says: “Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods, lives and the fruits (of your toil) but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere. Those who, when misfortune strikes them, say: ‘Indeed we belong to Allah and to Him is our return. Those are the ones upon whom are blessings and mercy from their Lord and it is those who are rightly guided.” [Sûrah al-Baqarah: 155]

    Allah says: “Every soul shall taste of death. And We will test you with evil and with good by way of trial. And to Us is your return.” [Sûrah al-Anbiyâ’: 35].

    Allah says: “It is He who created death and life that He may try you as to which of you is best in deeds.” [Sûrah al-Mulk: 2]


    2. You are confusing spread of the religion with dominant party or negativity against a religion (in our discussion specifically Islam).

    The fastest-growing religion

    Today, Islam is the second-largest religion on earth. According to various sources, just over a fifth of the world's population is Muslim. Only Christianity is larger, comprising 33 percent of the population. But Islam is by far the fastest-growing religion on the planet, with a growth rate estimated at 2.8%-2.9% per year.

    One explanation for this increase is that the birth rate in Muslim countries is much higher than in the majority of Christian countries (a reasoning popular among Christian missionaries), while others say that most of Muslim growth in Europe and the US comes from immigration, rather than conversion.

    However, numerous studies indicate that the rapid growth of Islam in the United States, Canada, Latin America and sub-Saharan Africa is, in fact, due to conversion. There are also surveys that point out the following phenomenon: a wave of conversion to Islam in the US and Europe following the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. Pan-Arab newspapers such as Al-Hayat and A-Sharq al-Awsat, as well as The New York Times, The Guardian and The Los Angeles Times, have reported an increasing interest in Islam in the US, which in many cases results in a conversion.

    But Muhammad Mahdi Sharovsky, a Muslim based in Hebron who was once a Kiryat Arba settler and religious Jew, doesn't think that there is a correlation between the dreadful event and the wave of conversion to Islam in the West.

    "Perhaps there is more awareness of Islam in the West after these events, but I'm sure that conversion is more a result of a personal growth, understanding, studying and quest," he says.

    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...icle%2FPrinter
    Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

    It is not Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, and obedience to Allâh, etc.) that you turn your faces towards east and (or) west (in prayers); but Al-Birr is (the quality of) the one who believes in Allâh, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book, the Prophets and gives his wealth, in spite of love for it, to the kinsfolk, to the orphans, and to Al-Masâkîn (the poor), and to the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and to set slaves free, performs As-Salât, and gives the Zakât, and keep their word whenever they make a promise, and who are patient in extreme poverty and ailment (disease) and at the time of persecution, hardship, and war. Such are the people of the truth and they are Al-Muttaqûn (the pious).


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    Hashim_507's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

    People stick with one topic and subject.

  22. #18
    Chuck's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

    I think that you are getting close to what I mean. You recognize that Muslims are losing, so to speak, and you wonder what is the reason. That is exactly what I am doing. The difference is that you seem to think that MORE Islam is the solution and I am advancing the theory that perhaps LESS Islam would be the solution. After all during these 200 years of defeats (more or less) Muslim countries have been in fact very Islamic. Most of them still are. It is only now that other ways of thinking (the modern world) are entering those societies and even now those new ways of thinking have a difficult time in most Islamic countries.
    My previous post answers most issues you have raised here, but I like to add one thing that most Islamic countries are not based on Islamic priniciples; for example they have corruption, lack of shura (consultation) mentality, violence and lack of value of life (brothers are killing brothers), charity, etc....

    And at the end Islam HAS to depend on winning or losing battles. Just for the sake of the argument, think for a moment of a global catastrophic war in which all Muslims are exterminated (not that I would like anything like that to happen). If there are no Muslims anymore, wasn't Islam defeated?
    Don't know, I'm sorry I don't have the ability to look into the future with truly predictable results. Only God knows, God can raise Islam again.

    And isn't the mere fact that Islam was defeated a proof that it was false to begin with?
    I don't think victory or defeat in worldly battles have any bearing on the truth or falsity of the religion. Read my previous post.

    After all, what happens is what God wants. If God accepted the destruction of Muslims it means that he has different plans for us. And even without resorting to such a dramatic scenario, if we think of Muslims losing all battles until they are subordinated to non-Muslims, isn't that also a proof that God wants some other system to prevail?
    Maybe God is testing us and wants to make us better in Islam.
    Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

    It is not Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, and obedience to Allâh, etc.) that you turn your faces towards east and (or) west (in prayers); but Al-Birr is (the quality of) the one who believes in Allâh, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book, the Prophets and gives his wealth, in spite of love for it, to the kinsfolk, to the orphans, and to Al-Masâkîn (the poor), and to the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and to set slaves free, performs As-Salât, and gives the Zakât, and keep their word whenever they make a promise, and who are patient in extreme poverty and ailment (disease) and at the time of persecution, hardship, and war. Such are the people of the truth and they are Al-Muttaqûn (the pious).


  23. #19
    Chuck's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

    "People stick with one topic and subject."
    Sorry brother.
    Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

    It is not Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, and obedience to Allâh, etc.) that you turn your faces towards east and (or) west (in prayers); but Al-Birr is (the quality of) the one who believes in Allâh, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book, the Prophets and gives his wealth, in spite of love for it, to the kinsfolk, to the orphans, and to Al-Masâkîn (the poor), and to the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and to set slaves free, performs As-Salât, and gives the Zakât, and keep their word whenever they make a promise, and who are patient in extreme poverty and ailment (disease) and at the time of persecution, hardship, and war. Such are the people of the truth and they are Al-Muttaqûn (the pious).


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    shorouk's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

    ok well mayb i didnt give enuf support to my wordings and to that i apologize...
    ok for some reason i love history and for that i will bring u bak to some...excuse me
    ok if u noe global history well u must noe something about islamic history

    as u noe or will noe is that at a certain point in gloal history islam was living its golden age...
    it prospered and muslims expanded into many many countries of the world ...
    they entered countries foreign to islam and allowed islam to b known and accepted and they ruled by it...

    ok if u read in the textbooks about this or even a very general global history book or even a high school textbook u will see that wen teh writers ( non muslim or muslim) will explain some of the factors that lead to the muslims prosper...

    from among the main or first reason they say is because of their strong powerful FAITH!!in islam of course ( no corruption)

    now allow me to say this is written without a doubt...
    and it makes sense too for them to b successful
    now look here there are some "strong christians " who do bad things who abuse who are injust who kill and murder who steal and corrupt and they are prospering...
    ehem ehem: bush our lovely president
    do u not agree that he has done so much rong??? thAT he has abused iraqis for example in the name of democracy??
    he is a bad guy lets face a criminal to b exact and yet he is propspering his country has bcome a superpower controllong all commanding all...\
    does god favor him?? if he does for wat??

    ok there are some drug dealers who succeed for years or their whole lifetime selling the forbidden ...harming millions and they are never found... and so tehy make soo much $$$$$ does god favor them???

    u see its not about if god is favoring us or not
    god sometimes tests ppl so that he may noe where u will end up: hell or heaven...
    u see nowadays muslims are not doign wat they are supposed to do...
    the muslim ppl have left their nature and have bcome corrupt...
    and there are verses which unfort. i dont have on me now but i will soon which say to the muslims the day u forget allah he will too forget u and wen u come bak to him he will b there.. sth like that makes sense...

    u see islam is not about being mean or oppressing
    if u read about it or even ask about it u will see that islam is all about perfecting socitey its laws tell us to love our parents , to not backbite and nott to instegate... to not gamble or drink or eat pork( because pork and beer harm our bodies)
    its laws tell us to b just to stand up to the truth... to b anythign but liars to b tolerant and to respect every1 muslim or non muslim
    during wars we are not allowed to burn or bring down a church or sanagogge or any place of worship...
    srry i got carried away but plz have a wider view....
    if u look at matters the way u do u wont udnerstand my view...\
    but as u see muslims are not following islam any more the muslim countries goverments are bulid on hypocrisy. lies and much more how do u wnat us to propser as muslims???
    alot of muslim countires are poor because muslims have left teh faith have left tehir morals.... and so this is the result....
    u noe there is this thing in islam called zakaa and this is rquired on every muslim in the quran .... but muslims dotn pay it ... if every muslim payed it there would b no poor... so soem muslims dont pay....and so --------->
    i trully hope for there to always b peace between christians, muslims and jews
    i hope one day we can all live in a socitey where we accept, understand and love one another...
    peace on all of u ...


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