Sometimes you hear of people who leave their faith (be it Christianity, Islam or anything else), come to the conclusion that God is not real and become atheists.
I cannot imagne that anybody, having once believed in God, can suddenly not believe in him any more!
I can imagine that people may get angry with God, or disillusioned with other believers - but not that they can genuinely not believe in his existence any more.
My husband disagrees, and says he has read many testamonies of people who did just that - stopped believing that God was real!
What do you think?
Is it possible?
Do you know people who have done this?
Peace.
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
how can u be angry wiv God once you've firmly believed and understood him?
i can not speak for these people. i guess they could not reconcile god permiting such horrors done to his people.
i am not an atheist, but i find this very understandable.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
Quite understandable, I think. For those who lived through that it must have been very hard to retain the idea of a benevolent, omniscient, omnipotent God. At the risk of waking Ansar up, that's the sort of event that just about clinches the "problem of evil" debate for me. No amount of philosophical argument or theological explanation can provide a convincing explanation of why such a God would let such a thing happen.
As to the first post, people stop believing in God because they no longer need the idea of a God to provide an explanation of why things happen in their lives.
"at the risk of waking ansar up".
for some reason, i am perfectly comfortable with the concept that there are things that are just not knowable.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
If God didn't love his people or didnt exist, there would be more chaos, I think.
I believe God has prevented a lot of things from happening, but at the same time people have the will to make their own choices. Each having its own consequences Its hard to explain really.
*Without Allah, without Islam, life would be meaningless. If I've ever learned patience, it's because of this. Alhamdulillah...*
He says (boastfully): "I have wasted wealth in abundance!"
Thinks he that none sees him?
(Qur'an 90: 1-7)
Allaah has created man in toil and trouble because if this life was all perfect - what's the actual reason for paradise?
If man had all he want's in this world, he would never turn to a higher authority for help. This is obvious because most of the oppressors are the people who have status within this world.
Now who follows a faith more, the people with power, or the poor and humble people? It's the humble people - they feel that they should turn to someone. Someone who will help them, and that is Allaah Almighty (God.)
The Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) said "I looked at Paradise and found poor people forming the majority of its inhabitants;" [Bukhari]
This life is surrounded by trials, and these trials may bring a person closer to Allaah because man realises that he/she is created weak. However - it can go to the opposite extreme too, where a person can give up totally on God and say that God isn't there to help.
But when man turns away, then he/she has no authority to turn to, which makes him/her even more helpless. When man feels sad that someone they were close to died, didn't they already know that death would catch up with them within their life?
This is why islam explains thoroughly what will happen to a person in the afterlife, aswell as describing this world so that the person may reflect on how this world is related to the afterlife.
The Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) asked, 'Do you know who the wise person is? The wise person is someone who is constantly remembering death and preparing for it.'
i have known jews who became atheists as a result of the holocaust.
And yet many more became even more pious because they believe the Jews would have been completly destroyed if it was not for G-d's intervention, like my parents for example.
i can not speak for these people. i guess they could not reconcile god permiting such horrors done to his people.
i am not an atheist, but i find this very understandable.
I understand but Human beings can only reach virtues by choosing with their free will not to pursue vices. If a computer is programmed to always tell the truth we wouldn't call it virtuous. To appreciate light there must be darkness. To appreciate life there must be death. We cannot learn unless we make some mistakes.
Indeed God does have absolute knowledge of all things and has power over all things and He does love human beings. The bad in the world should be seen, not as inherently bad but rather as lessons for humanity from which it must learn and through which we appreciate the value of good things as and when we earn them through our efforts.
Adam's progeny declared: "Our Lord, we bear witness that You are our Lord; we have no other
Lord but Allah. Allah raised their father Adam, and he looked at them and saw those of them who
were rich and those who were poor, and those who had good forms and those who did not. Adam
said: "O Allah! I wish You to make Your servants equal." Allah replied "I love being thanked."
Adam saw among the prophets like lamps among his progeny. - (stories of the prohets, Ibn Kathir)
May Allah(SWT) guide us all.
Peace.
Last edited by InToTheRain; 09-18-2006 at 12:23 AM.
My personal feeling on the matter is.... when things go wrong we blame it on God and when they go right and they do most everyday... we don't even pay attention to it at all....and that is truly puzzling to me.... someone on the forum had written before that is God existed he would make himself known to me.... it is a strange sentiment really... I think of all the sophistication of creation which can't be summed up in adequate words and how some reduce not just creation but the creator by more vulgar idelogy and cheap words? God doesn't need our validation or acknowledgment in fact it is quite the converse.... to be honest I have heard people cursing God (astghforallah) I have heard people question him when things go awry but never seen any turn ahteists........ me personally even the days when I wasn't practising like any atheist... deep down inside I always knew there is God....I also believe there is a balance and an order to things... and that nothing escapes unaccounted for even if we don't bare witness to it...
I have seen things which by my standards I think are miraculous I am sure someone can find a law of physics to explain them or explain it in a very sane way? but I think "For the skeptic, no amount of proof will be enough, and for the believer, no amount of proof is necessary" really sums it up nicely for me....
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Best to my belief , knowledge and understanding - from an Islamic prespective it is not possible.
The Prophet(s) said, "He who has tasted the sweetness of faith can never leave it"
So people who truly had faith, cannot stop believeing in God - but at the same time they may become rebellious and be hypocrites or non practicing in their faith
- but as for people who never believed and always had doubts in their hearts - they are the ones who leave.
that is my opinion base on the saying of the Prophet(s).
Thats right. If you truly believed you wouldnt abandon ur beliefs for the sake of anything. You must have been a hyprocrite and show to others u believed but really didnt.
*Without Allah, without Islam, life would be meaningless. If I've ever learned patience, it's because of this. Alhamdulillah...*
Quite understandable, I think. For those who lived through that it must have been very hard to retain the idea of a benevolent, omniscient, omnipotent God. At the risk of waking Ansar up, that's the sort of event that just about clinches the "problem of evil" debate for me. No amount of philosophical argument or theological explanation can provide a convincing explanation of why such a God would let such a thing happen.
As to the first post, people stop believing in God because they no longer need the idea of a God to provide an explanation of why things happen in their lives.
I don't know much about Buddhism but many of my Hindu friends believe that any suffering they receive is based on some past life time event... what are your thoughts on that do you share a similar understanding?
I find the analogy that if there were a God he shouldn't/wouldn't allow suffering to happen a little strange.... why do we believe he is the cause of our suffering?... why do we not blame it on the people who cause the suffering? How dare we even speak so much of free will if God were orchestrating our every move?... what man does to another is an independent act from God...even though he is most knowing, most wise... his most beloved messengers suffered greatly none were spared none that I know of....if anyone he should have saved you'd think it would be them first...
trials and tribulations is man's plight otherwise what would be the point of this life? It seems that we would be living in some sort of utopia an elysian field... It would be sad truly sad if being good or being evil meant nothing... if all you did unto others meant nothing... I know not every horrible person is brought into justice... but I believe/know that there is justice even if I am not to witness it in my lifetime or in this world all together.... it is the law of the universe.....
peace
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
And yet many more became even more pious because they believe the Jews would have been completly destroyed if it was not for G-d's intervention, like my parents for example.
yes, i've read that too. i'm just more likely to run in to the atheists than the orthodox. but there are certainly accounts of miraculous survival also.
i can not imagine how i would've dealt with the holocaust theologically - i would've had to conclude (as i do with many things) that it was unknowable - why god allowed this to happen. the alternative would be to go insane.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
How do u know how much God might be preventing and how worse this world would be than it already is. Imagine the world being perfect and God not letting any evil happen. You would not have so many charitable organizations or people coming forward to help each other. You wouldn't have people building compassion for each other or comfort others in time of need. This life is a test for the humankind. God has given the choice and how go about making them. Each action will have a consequence, good or bad. The holocaust, for example, is something u wouldnt want ever to happen again and u feel remorse for the lost lives. How would u have that if it never happened. Not saying it should have and the people responsible will definitely be accountable. No doubt about that. God has given us guidelines for these things and how to do each act. Guidelines that we should help one another. God has already given us this sense of compassion and us being able to fulfill it through His guidelines. Thats how i see it.
Last edited by Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн; 09-18-2006 at 01:33 AM.
*Without Allah, without Islam, life would be meaningless. If I've ever learned patience, it's because of this. Alhamdulillah...*
Huh, this thread has grown in my sleep!
Thank you for your very interesting thoughts.
A couple of things spring to mind.
I think those of us who feel our faith in God is unfallible, may be a little naive. A think any of us would have our breaking point, when we would question God severely!
(Witnessing and experiencing the horrors of the holocaust, or watching your family and livelihood being washed away by a tsunami, or just being worn down by the daily grind - those are just a few things)
If my family was killed, or I lost the use of my arms and legs, or civil war broke out in my country ... would I really continue to joyfully follow God, praise him for all his blessings and continue to serve him?
Here and now, sitting behind my computer, in a relatively peaceful community, with my family still safely in bed and with the full use of my limbs, I would answer a convincing yes!
But if the day came, would I still be so sure???
Let's not kid ourselves ... we all have times when we question and doubt God ... or is there aybody here who can honestly say he doesn't??
But therebbe makes a very good point! These times of trial and doubt can prompt us to choose one of two ways ... either away from God, or closer to him!
May you all walk with God, always.
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
i can not speak for these people. i guess they could not reconcile god permiting such horrors done to his people.
i am not an atheist, but i find this very understandable.
ye but its men who commit the horrors.... and its on the day of judgement when full recompense will be paid...
-
My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
-
Best to my belief , knowledge and understanding - from an Islamic prespective it is not possible.
The Prophet(s) said, "He who has tasted the sweetness of faith can never leave it"
mashAllah, if that is a sahih hadith that makes it part faith to believe that anyone who is truelly accepted Allah swt and his messenger cant turn back
-
My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
-
And yet many more became even more pious because they believe the Jews would have been completly destroyed if it was not for G-d's intervention, like my parents for example.
Can you tell me about your parents, therebbe?
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
Sometimes you hear of people who leave their faith (be it Christianity, Islam or anything else), come to the conclusion that God is not real and become atheists.
I cannot imagne that anybody, having once believed in God, can suddenly not believe in him any more!
I can imagine that people may get angry with God, or disillusioned with other believers - but not that they can genuinely not believe in his existence any more.
My husband disagrees, and says he has read many testamonies of people who did just that - stopped believing that God was real!
What do you think?
Is it possible?
Do you know people who have done this?
Peace.
I'm somewhat confused about this question? Why would it not be possible? Why is losing faith harder than getting faith? In general, I would say that losing faith in something is generally easier than gaining it. At least, thats how it works for people and in, say, politics.
I do agree that it is more likely that someone who becomes an atheist never really believed in the first place. But I think the same goes for an atheist becoming Christian or Muslim, they are more likely to not have been true rational atheists, but rather never really thought about it much before. I'm guessing here, I don't have much experience with either.
I'm somewhat confused about this question? Why would it not be possible? Why is losing faith harder than getting faith? In general, I would say that losing faith in something is generally easier than gaining it. At least, thats how it works for people and in, say, politics.
Thanks KAding!
I had to laugh about your post, because my husband found the question just as ludicrous! (Must be an atheist thing!)
I think many people in this thread have put my thinking into their own words ... when you believe in God being the all-powerful creator, I just cannot imagine that you an just turn that belief off.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen - I just can't imagine it at all!
peace
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
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