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Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion?

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    Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion? (OP)


    I am posting this article b/c I really can't imagine a worst time in history for one to be Muslim... but in many ways it has proven me wrong... this conflict has existed for ages just colored with a different mind set

    Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion?
    By Khalid Amayreh

    Saturday 04 March 2006, 4:20 Makka Time, 1:20 GMT


    Cartoon crisis highlighted divide between Islam and the West



    Related:
    Spain unveils West-Islam alliance plan
    German Muslims want Islam in class



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    The recent crisis over the Danish cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad as a terrorist has highlighted the misunderstanding and cultural divide between Islam and the West.




    Author and human rights activist Mahmoud Nammoura, who has written two books on Islam-West relations, believes the cartoons reveal a "cultural disharmony" and not a religious clash.



    "This is not a showdown between Islam and Christianity," he said.



    "In fact, Europe and much of the West are now living in an era which might be called a post-religious. It is therefore not Christianity, but western cultural arrogance, that stands behind this growing anti-Islamic discourse in certain western circles," says Nammoura, a resident of the West Bank town of Hebron.



    Bassam Jarar, considered one of the most prominent Islamic thinkers in Palestine, believes there is a knee-jerk reaction to Islamic communities asserting themselves in Europe.



    "They [Europeans] can't easily come to terms with the fact that a militarily and politically defeated umma (community) is asserting a pro-active presence in the heart of the West and is aspiring to present itself as an alternative to western civilisation."



    Conflict of civilisations



    When asked if the crisis was a vindication of Samuel Huntington's theory of conflict of civilisations, Jarar said: "It is not inevitable if they are (westerners) faithful to democracy. Let them allow the free market of ideas to take its course."



    Jarar believes that while the cartoon crisis has a negative aura, and might rekindle old prejudices, it will eventually have a positive income.



    "I believe this is going to be a good lesson for both Muslims and Westerners. It might lead to a greater understanding in the long range."



    But Father Peter DuBrul of Bethlehem University, a Catholic University funded by the Vatican, believes the causes of anti-Muslim attitudes are rooted in the complex history between Islam and Christianity.



    "As you know, a Christian who has not seriously studied Islam cannot take the Holy Quran at face value; there are too many contradictions to Christian beliefs."



    Reduced to stereotype



    DuBrul believes it is wrong to overlook or marginalise the religious dimension in the West-Islam relationship, saying the term "post-religious" may be a misnomer.



    "I think the west is more religious than some Muslims would think and the Muslim east is more secular than some Muslims would admit ..."







    Nonetheless, DuBrul, who has been living in the West Bank for many years, believes that despite recent drawbacks western-Muslim understanding can be achieved.



    "The Islamic mission to the world comes into conflict with other missions, and such 'missions' have much to learn from one another," he said.



    "We are in the process of learning now, very painfully. The enemy is always reduced to a stereotype [that] is easier to kill."



    Early seeds of divide



    The using of stereotypes to demonise Islam can be traced to early Western Christian perceptions of Muslims in the Middle Ages.



    In Chanson de Roland, a medieval French epic of the Crusades, the poet envisioned Islam as an unholy trinity of the Prophet Muhammad and two demons Appolin and Tervagant.



    The crusades by the Franks against the Muslim East did succeed in demythologising some of Western perceptions of Islam.



    For many centuries, both Eastern and Western Christendom called Muslims Saracens. In the Iberian Peninsula, they called Muslims Moors, and people of the Iberian culture continued to call all Muslims "Moors" even if they met them in South East Asia. (e.g. the Moro Liberation Front in the Southern Philippines).



    In Most of Europe, Muslims were called Turks, and a convert to Islam was said to have "turned Turk" even if the conversion took place in a place as far away as India.



    Europe and the Quran



    In 1649, the first English translation of the Quran was published in London by Alexander Ross who based his research on a 1647 French translation by Andre du Tyer, the French consol in Egypt.



    Ross, who did not speak Arabic, added an appendix to his "translation" of the Quran:



    "Good reader, the great Arabian Imposter now at least after a thousand years, is … arrived in England, and his Alcoran, or Gallimaufry of Errors (a brat as deformed as the parents, and as full of heresies as his scald-head was of scurffe) hath learned to speak English … so should the reading of this Alcoran excite us both to bless God’s judgments, who suffers so many countries to be blinded and inslaved with this misshapen issue of Mahomets braine."



    "They [Europeans] can't easily come to terms with the fact that a militarily and politically defeated umma (community) is asserting a pro-active presence in the heart of the West and is aspiring to present itself as an alternative to western civilisation"

    Bassam Jarar,
    Palestinian Islamic thinker

    Although Ross's conceptualisation of Islam reflected the overall European rejection and fear of it, a few of his contemporaries treated Islam much more objectively.



    Henry Stubbes, born in England in 1632, wrote several manuscripts on the Islamic faith entitled "Account of the Rise and Progress of Mahometanism, with the Life of Mahomet and a Vindication of Him and His Religion from the Calumnies of the Christians."



    Medieval Christian legends



    Stubbes ridiculed the medieval Christian legends about Muhammad as "rubbish". Some of these legends said Muhammad was an epileptic, and that Muhammad's inspiration came to him via a pet pigeon which used to eat peas from his ear.



    In "The Character of Mahomet and Fabulous Inventions of the Christians Concerning him and his religion," Stubbes presented a remarkable image of the Prophet, considering the general anti-Islamic prejudices and misperceptions of that time.



    He wrote:



    "I doubt not but by this time your curiosity will prompt you to enquire after the portraiture of this extraordinary person. His great soul was lodged in a body of Middle size; he had a large head, a brown complexion but fresh colour, a beard long and thick but not grey, a grave aspect wherein the awfulness of majesty seemed to be tempered with admirable sweetness which at once imprinted in the beholder’s respect, reverence and love. His eyes were quick and sparkling, his limbs exactly turned, his mien was great and noble, his motion free and easy, and every action had a grace so peculiar that it was impossible to see him with indifference."



    Stubbes' ideas on Islam, however, were not popular within contemporary European circles and were not published until 1911.



    God-moon?



    The belief that Islam was at odds with the mostly Christian west persisted into the 21st century and reappear in US evangelical discourse about Islam.



    In 2004, Pat Robertson, head of the Christian Broadcasting Network said in a speech in Hertzlya, north of Tel Aviv, that the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians was actually a conflict between the Judeo-Christian God and Islam's God-moon.



    Others have referred to Allah as a pre-Islamic Arabian pagan deity.



    This type of discourse, says Nammoura, reflects fears by these evangelicals that Islam constitutes the main threat and obstacle to their dispensationalist ideology.



    "They see Islam, not Buddhism, not Hinduism, not Judaism, as the main geopolitical threat, this is why they come up with this rubbish."



    According to Philip Hitti, author of History of the Arabs, the Christian medieval image of Islam was the aggregate product of a confluence of streams of multiple sources in Syro-Byzantine, Hispano-French, Sicillio-Italian and crusading literature.



    This literature conceptualised Muslims as pagans worshiping a false prophet who worked out his doctrine from Biblical sources under the tutelage of an Arian Monk.



    Such beliefs were caricatured not only in religious and literary works, but also in art. Dante in his "Divine Comedy" was thus prompted consequently to consign the Prophet and his son-in-law Ali, to the ninth hell reserved for those who sow scandal and schism.



    Gradual change




    Christianity and Islam differ on
    fundamental doctrines


    But with industrialisation western perceptions of Islam began to change slowly as more Europeans came in contact with Muslims. However, these perceptions remained basically negative due to the fundamental doctrinal differences between Islam and Christianity.



    However, with the rise of Orientalism in the late 18th and 19th centuries, Europeans (and some Americans) began to view the world of Islam less imaginatively.



    Following the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in World War I, European powers occupied or came to control the bulk of Muslim lands in the Middle East. At this time, European attitudes changed from fear and hatred to patronisation and contempt.



    Although European occupation of the Arab lands was seen mainly within the framework of European colonial expansionism, its religious dimensions remained.



    British General Edmund Allenby's capture of Jerusalem on 10 December 1917 was considered a "Christian" victory against the Turks.



    An article published in 1917 in the Catholic magazine "America" captioned "Crusaders in Khaki," and celebrated that the Holy Land was finally in Christian hands.



    But Father DuBrul believes such attitudes deepen the cultural divide and must be challenged.



    He urges stereotypes be replaced by discourse, exchange of ideas, self-knowledge, learning about others and prayers.



    "If there is to be a greater understanding in the long range, it has to start with critical respect for the religious component in both cultures."


    Aljazeera
    Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion?

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    Re: Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion?

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    format_quote Originally Posted by Joe98 View Post
    Muslims must follow the rules of Islam.

    As a result, many Muslims living in the West, don't socialise with their Western neighbors.

    Then they feel isolated from the community and blame it on the West.

    This ultimately is the reason we are not compatible.
    How long have u been here? and u know nuthing it seems...

    Muslims can be a part of plenty of social activities as long as its within the boundaries of Islam. So to say we don't socialize is kinda dumb...
    Those who dont do much, aren't taking advantage of this.
    In Islam, for Muslims, education is a must, a duty for every man and women.
    Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion?

    *Without Allah, without Islam, life would be meaningless. If I've ever learned patience, it's because of this. Alhamdulillah...*
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    Re: Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion?

    30% of americans interviewd believe that Muslims should have some tags to identify them as Muslims
    Do you have a source for that? It is completely outragous.
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    Re: Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion?

    yes it was a CAIR survey out a few months ago... that is not stating every American wants that... just out of the pool they surveyed 30% wanted tags to identify people as Muslims...I'll try to find the S... if not you may want to contact CAIR and have them send you that report...
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    Re: Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia View Post
    yes it was a CAIR survey out a few months ago... that is not stating every American wants that... just out of the pool they surveyed 30% wanted tags to identify people as Muslims...I'll try to find the S... if not you may want to contact CAIR and have them send you that report...
    I couldn't find anything about it on their website, although they seem to have all their surveys there . Oh well, never mind. It isn't that important.
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    Re: Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by KAding View Post
    I couldn't find anything about it on their website, although they seem to have all their surveys there . Oh well, never mind. It isn't that important.
    you can contact them at
    [email protected]
    they usually answer in a timely manner...
    would you be for or against Muslims identifying themselves as Muslims? I think it is kind of hard to miss most of us? lol
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    Re: Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Tayyaba
    Muslims can be a part of plenty of social activities as long as its within the boundaries of Islam.
    Thats what I said too!

    So tell us, how can they socialise and feel isolated at the same time?
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    Re: Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion?

    Where is there isolation? Am I isolated?
    Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion?

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    Re: Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Tayyaba
    Where is there isolation?

    Muslims in the UK claim "isolation" and claim it was a factor in the terrorist attacks of July '05
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    Re: Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion?

    They're isolated because they are being discriminated there. They're trying to integrate into their community, yet people are being racist and stuff. It's not because of Islam. When I said they can socialize, I meant Islam allows it, but within the boundaries of Islam.
    Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion?

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    Re: Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Joe98 View Post
    Muslims in the UK claim "isolation" and claim it was a factor in the terrorist attacks of July '05
    The logic follow in the west is Muslim feel isolated because they don't go to the pub and have a pint of beer, and their women don't seem to flirt enough with the punters, by first not going to those social activities. kay:
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    Re: Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Tayyaba
    ....yet people are being racist and stuff.
    You say Muslims in the UK feel isolated due to racism. But Islam is a religion, not a race. How can it be racism?

    In the UK there are plenty of people of different races. How come the Chinese Brits live happily?
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    Re: Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion?

    I think many Western Muslims feel helpless because they can't control world events and the radical element that is hurting the image of Islam as a whole. Since the Western world(mostly the U.S. and U.K) are in a very real war against a radical ideology calling itself Islam, there will be certain changes in policy that reflect this reality. One of those changes is the focus on people from Arab and Muslim countries. That cannot be avoided. Hopefully this terrible situation we all find ourselves in will end someday in the not so distant future, and the Muslims living in the West can move on with their daily lives without the stress and fear I'm sure many are living with at the moment.
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    Re: Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi View Post
    I think many Western Muslims feel helpless because they can't control world events and the radical element that is hurting the image of Islam as a whole. Since the Western world(mostly the U.S. and U.K) are in a very real war against a radical ideology calling itself Islam, there will be certain changes in policy that reflect this reality. One of those changes is the focus on people from Arab and Muslim countries. That cannot be avoided. Hopefully this terrible situation we all find ourselves in will end someday in the not so distant future, and the Muslims living in the West can move on with their daily lives without the stress and fear I'm sure many are living with at the moment.
    Oyeah, it is the west noble duty to invade country, physically, politically to bring about democracy, by creating a seemingly creating a percieved threat in the western mind. We are fighting radical Islam, thats why we invaded you.

    What was he other excuse in History

    To civilize the barbarians. kay:

    Just a more complex crusade propaganda.
    Last edited by Skillganon; 09-20-2006 at 03:19 AM.
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    Re: Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon View Post
    Oyeah, it is the west noble duty to invade country, physically, politically to bring about democracy.

    What was he other excuse in History

    To civilize the barbarians. kay:
    I'm not sure what any of that had to do with the topic at hand.
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    Re: Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi View Post
    I'm not sure what any of that had to do with the topic at hand.
    Neither do I see, what the middle east has to do it. One is proposing that the seeming reluctance of muslim to socialise in western social activities, has to do with evil radical in the middle east. That our goverment is championing to eradicate.

    I rather think that the western can't co-exist with the world at large, and western people (mainly non-muslim) has a problem with socialising with muslim.
    Last edited by Skillganon; 09-20-2006 at 03:24 AM.
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    Re: Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon View Post
    Neither do I see, what the middle east has to do it. One is proposing that the seeming reluctance of muslim to socialise in western social activities, has to do with evil radical in the middle east. That our goverment is championing to eradicate.
    To be honest, I don't really understand what you are trying to say. I will try to form a response. The Muslim experience in the West is greatly affected by the current political climate in the country they are inhabiting. The current political climate in the West is now dominated by the phenomenon of suicide terrorism and radicalism. This has obvious ramifications for how comfortable a Muslim will feel living in the West. While there isn't a war against Islam, there is a war against those who call themselves Muslims. This reality cannot be avoided.
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    Re: Islam and West: Conflict or cohesion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi View Post
    To be honest, I don't really understand what you are trying to say. I will try to form a response. The Muslim experience in the West is greatly affected by the current political climate in the country they are inhabiting. The current political climate in the West is now dominated by the phenomenon of suicide terrorism and radicalism. This has obvious ramifications for how comfortable a Muslim will feel living in the West. While there isn't a war against Islam, there is a war against those who call themselves Muslims. This reality cannot be avoided.
    EDIT:

    The muslim experience in the West is greatly affected by the current political climate in the country they are inhabiting. The current political climate in the East is now dominated by the phenomenon of constant bombing, invasion and western radicalism. This has obvious ramifications for how comfortable a Muslim will feel living in the West. While they say "their isn't a (so called) war against Islam", there is a war against the people (mainly Muslim) in the middle east. This reality cannot be avoided.

    See what I mean?

    We got enough radicals in the west, who sits in parliament and washington. The mass need to be herded, into stop thinking.

    Muslim needs to stop feeling period, and accept the FACTS (which tends to make me scratch my head often), then they can feel more a ease.

    The obviouse thing is the western public, are reluctant to accept muslim, unless they conform, and socialise to the way they are thinking.
    Last edited by Skillganon; 09-20-2006 at 04:27 AM.
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