DId Jesus wipe away the sins of all of mankind?

**InToTheRain** · 09-21-2006

If jesus wiped away the sins of all of mankind does that mean everyone is going to go to heaven? Does this mean no one is accountable for their actions in the hereafter?
Does this include the sins of before jesus's birth and or only those after his crusifiction?

**Keltoi** · 09-22-2006

This might be too philosophical, but I believe one of the primary reasons there is a difference in reasoning when religion is involved is the Greek roots of Western thought. We view spirituality and faith in different ways.

**IceQueen~** · 09-22-2006

yes I see what you mean- that IS true..

**Ibn Abi Ahmed** · 09-22-2006

Originally Posted by Keltoi

I'm not going to go through and answer every question Ahmed raised because they have been answered numerous times before on previous threads.

I raised them again because ive never seen a satisfying answer. It always comes back to faith and a person is expected to overlook the contradictions or else he has no faith. A person is expected to take what ever he is being spoonfed without asking what is he being made to eat.

As for the perfection of God. That is sort of a strange accusation to make, since one could ask why there needs to be a Hell if God is all knowing and perfect? Why should sin exist at all if God designed a perfect creation? Why would Lucifer fall from Heaven and turn against the Light of God if God's creations are perfect? I don't know these answers.

Not at all. I never said the creation is perfect. I said God is perfect. Sin would exist (and does) to test mankind, God isnt going to enter everyone into Paradise, now is he? It exists to seperate the evil from the good. Hell would exist to punish the sinners. Satan would disobey God so that he can do what God has predestined for him to do, and this is mislead mankind from the Truth. That is part of God's perfect plan. Therefore, I wasnt accusing God of being imperfect, I was saying the Christian perception of God is false, due to their blatant contradictions about God. As I can see by your posts, the average Christian doesnt have the answers to these questions which are supposed to be part of his faith.

**Keltoi** · 09-22-2006

Originally Posted by Ähmed

I raised them again because ive never seen a satisfying answer. It always comes back to faith and a person is expected to overlook the contradictions or else he has no faith. A person is expected to take what ever he is being spoonfed without asking what is he being made to eat.

Not at all. I never said the creation is perfect. I said God is perfect. Sin would exist (and does) to test mankind, God isnt going to enter everyone into Paradise, now is he? It exists to seperate the evil from the good. Hell would exist to punish the sinners. Satan would disobey God so that he can do what God has predestined for him to do, and this is mislead mankind from the Truth. That is part of God's perfect plan. Therefore, I wasnt accusing God of being imperfect, I was saying the Christian perception of God is false, due to their blatant contradictions about God. As I can see by your posts, the average Christian doesnt have the answers to these questions which are supposed to be part of his faith.

What "questions" are you referring to?, and what "contradictions"? The fact that my faith is different than yours doesn't mean I am obligated to convince you of anything. I've attempted to explain the issue of sin and the result of Christ's suffering for the sins of the world. Glo has posted several informative posts on this topic. I'm not sure what else you expect. If you don't understand it, that is understandable, as you aren't a Christian. I don't understand Islam to the extent I would like because I'm not a Muslim.

**InToTheRain** · 09-23-2006

greetings,

Originally Posted by Keltoi

No, he suffered for a great reason, which was God's forgiveness of mankind's sinful nature.Man is forgiven for all his sins, but man must accept this forgiveness.

So God punishes the person he loves for the sins of those who he hates enough to burn in hellfire? In the day of judgement, will God punish Jesus some more for my sins? " If this is what you are telling me then it clearly defies reason and it's completely unjust.

Originally Posted by Keltoi

To make a longer story short, Jesus died on the cross to give mankind one last chance.

Why is it seen as a sacrifice for the benefit of mankind? Didn't Jesus say "O lord, O lord why hast thou forsaken me?", doesn't this prove he wasn't willing to die but rather he was killed by force?

Under what conditions can someone enter heaven christianity?

peace

**Ali_slave of Allah** · 09-23-2006

r u telling me that a person can do wat eva he wants to do but he has to be chirstian

**Keltoi** · 09-23-2006

Originally Posted by calik

r u telling me that a person can do wat eva he wants to do but he has to be chirstian

No, that obviously isn't what I'm saying, which would be evident if you read past posts. This discussion is quickly spiraling into "my religion is better than yours", and quite frankly I don't see any reason to continue along these lines. Useful discussion and honest questions are a good thing, but when it becomes nothing but accusations and pointless bickering, it has outlived its usefulness.

**glo** · 09-23-2006

Originally Posted by calik

r u telling me that a person can do wat eva he wants to do but he has to be chirstian

<sighs>
Do members ever read any of the stuff people post here to answer questions about their own faith?
Because if people don't, I can save myself the trouble in future ...

Please read:

I think the misunderstanding lies with Muslims seem to think that Christians believe that Jesus died for our sins, so everything is hunky-dory and we can now all do what we like ...

That's not the case.
I won't repeat myself, but if you read the previous posts you may understand that Jesus 'paying for our sins' does not mean that sins don't happen anymore or that they don't matter anymore.
But by confessing and repenting our sins and trying our hardest not to commit them again, Jesus' death has given us God's grace and mercy to be forgiven.

peace

**Woodrow** · 09-23-2006

Originally Posted by Keltoi

No, that obviously isn't what I'm saying, which would be evident if you read past posts. This discussion is quickly spiraling into "my religion is better than yours", and quite frankly I don't see any reason to continue along these lines. Useful discussion and honest questions are a good thing, but when it becomes nothing but accusations and pointless bickering, it has outlived its usefulness.

I agree. Time for this thread to end on a Peacefull tone. Some good thoughts were made. But, now it seems it has reached the point were people are skipping what was said and just read the last post and reply based on that.