Isn't it true that the Qur'an is copied from the Bible?

**Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн** · 09-29-2006

I don't know if a similar thread has been made. But I will take that chance

No. This is not true. All evidence show that the Qur'an could not have been copied from the Bible.

Take for example the story of the flood that occurred in the days of the prophet Noah, on whom be peace. This event is narrated in both the Bible and the Qur'an. A careful examination of the two versions will show that the Qur'anic version could have come from no other source but God alone.

One important difference between the two accounts is that whereas the Bible describes the flood as a worldwide flood (see Genesis ch. 7) the Qur'an mentions it as a local flood affecting the people of Noah (see Qur'an 7:59-64). Today it is acknowledged that no record exists of a worldwide flood occurring at the time specified in the Bible. How did the author of the Qur'an avoid this mistake unless the author was God Himself?

The closest thing in history to a flood like the one described in the Bible and the Qur'an, is a discovery made by Archaeologist Sir Charles Leonard Wooley. In 1929 he discovered remains from a flood which occurred around 4000 B.C. His findings are described in the book entitled 'The Bible as History", by Werner Keller. Keller tells us: "The incredible discovery at Ur made headline news in the United States and in Britain" (The Bible as History, 2nd Revised Edition, Bantam Books, 1980, p. 27).

But was this a worldwide flood? After describing the extent of the flood, Keller explains: "Looking at the map we should call it today 'a local occurrence"' (p. 28).

"In other words," writes Keller, that flood was "obviously not of sufficient magnitude for the Biblical Flood" (p. 29). Furthermore, he says: "A flood of the unimaginable extent described in the Bible still remains 'archaeologically not demonstrated"' (pp. 29-30).

Another comparison will again demonstrate that the Qur'an was not copied from the Bible. In the Bible we are told that God drowned the Pharaoh and his army when they pursued Moses, on whom be peace, and his people (see Exodus 14:28). The clear indication in that description is that the body of the Pharaoh perished in the sea. However, the Qur'an dared to differ and prove true. In the Qur'an we find that God promised to preserve the body of the Pharaoh as a sign for later generations (see Qur'an 10:90-92).

True to the Qur'anic promise, the mummified body of the Pharaoh was discovered by Loret in 1898 at Thebes in the Kings' Valley (see "The Bible, the Qur'an and Science" by Dr. Maurice Bucaille, p. 238). From there it was transported to Cairo. Elliot Smith removed its wrappings on July 8, 1907 and gave a detailed description in his book entitled "The Royal Mummies" (1912).

From which source did the author of the Qur'an derive this information? How did the author of the Qur'an know that the Pharaoh's body was preserved, whereas the knowledge that the ancient Egyptians mummified their dead was not discovered until recently? And how could the author of the Qur'an predict that the body of the Pharaoh will be discovered later, unless the author was God Himself?

**The Ruler** · 09-29-2006

summink dat 2 day in ma skul students go dat wt happend if de bible was ritten b4 Jesus (as) n den he read it n den claimd dat he was God'd son jus ta get fame...n peepz r lyk bible was ritten after him....and i was thinking that if the bible was written after him, isnt it obvious that there could have been modifications

...the Qur'an may have been written after the death of the Prophet (saw) but the tim difference is shorter...and also the Qur'an says that it will be protected by Allah...something that the bible is missing to convince people that it is the truth. there again it shows that the Qur'an is NOT a copy of the bible...

ryt

**Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн** · 09-29-2006

I thought the Qur'an was compiled by scribes during the life of the Prophet(pbuh). Also that they used whatever was available to them. Then only later was it compiled all together

ummm...lol

**Keltoi** · 09-29-2006

You must also keep in mind that the world during Biblical times was considered much smaller. The concept of a "worldwide" flood was more than likely in the context of their own region in the world. They didn't have travel journals, cruiseships, internet, or any of the sources of info we take for granted. To Biblical peoples, their region of the world was the "whole world".

**Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн** · 09-29-2006

That just brings up another instance. Allah Almighty in one Word said that He made the earth as an egg. We all know today that earth is spherical and science did confirm that the earth is indeed egg-shaped. The Bible says the world is flat. But then you would claim that it doesn't mean it literally. The Prophet(pbuh), his companions and other people in his region didn't know this as well. They didn't have such things that we have now. So this is another point in which I could say the Qur'an was not copied from the Bible.

If I messed up..lemme know! I jus thought this through now...
hope i didnt contradict myself lol..

**Keltoi** · 09-29-2006

I'm not making any claims as to whether the Qur'an was copied or not. It is true that the Islamic Prophet obviously accepted the Judeo-Christian God, but also formed another religion. I'm not speaking from a religious perspective here, just putting on my historian hat and looking at things objectively. Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God, so I don't see the relevance in debating whether the Qur'an was "copied", since the Bible itself was "copied" by Christians since it became the Holy Book of their religion.

**Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн** · 09-29-2006

Yea I know ur not but it's just somethin that came to my mind lol. Don't worry about it >.<
Just sticking with the topic.
Btw he didnt" form" "another" religion.

**- Qatada -** · 09-29-2006

Originally Posted by Tayyaba

I thought the Qur'an was compiled by scribes during the life of the Prophet(pbuh). Also that they used whatever was available to them. Then only later was it compiled all together

ummm...lol

Yeah, that's true. The arab's were poor at that time - so obviously paper was expensive. So the one's who could write, would write on bones, rocks etc. This was then all compiled together within the Khalifah of Abu Bakr (may Allaah Almighty be pleased with him.)

This mean's it was probably less than a year after the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) passed away, and Allaah Almighty know's best.

try checking this thread out for more info insha'Allaah:
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...-together.html

**Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн** · 09-29-2006

JazakAllah for confirming it

**- Qatada -** · 09-29-2006

Originally Posted by Keltoi

You must also keep in mind that the world during Biblical times was considered much smaller. The concept of a "worldwide" flood was more than likely in the context of their own region in the world. They didn't have travel journals, cruiseships, internet, or any of the sources of info we take for granted. To Biblical peoples, their region of the world was the "whole world".

Remember that Muhammad (peace be upon him) came only 6 centuries after Jesus (peace be upon him) - if the calendar is correct. Which mean's there wasn't internet and satellite at that time either, but the message was for the whole of humanity.

The reason why i love that fact is because the life of Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his follower's was a microcosm, and nearly every single aspect that happened within their live's - we can relate back to it and see how a muslim should react in a similar situation.

Therefore all the incident's that took place in arabia can be used by the muslim's to reflect on, and understand how to react from there onwards.

Originally Posted by Keltoi

I'm not making any claims as to whether the Qur'an was copied or not. It is true that the Islamic Prophet obviously accepted the Judeo-Christian God, but also formed another religion. I'm not speaking from a religious perspective here, just putting on my historian hat and looking at things objectively. Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God, so I don't see the relevance in debating whether the Qur'an was "copied", since the Bible itself was "copied" by Christians since it became the Holy Book of their religion.

Compared to the belief's of the jews and christians at their time, and also nowadays - yes it was different. However, it's not a new faith because like all the previous messengers - they all came with the same message - to worship their Creator - Allaah Almighty. And this is the exact same message of Muhammad (peace be upon him.)

Allaah Almighty know's best.

Peace.

**`Abd al-Azeez** · 09-29-2006

The anti-Islamics say that the Quran was copied from the Bible but there are many flaws in this theory:

First of all, most of stories of the prophets in the Quran [which the missionaries claim that the Prophet (saws) copied from the Bible] were revealed in Makkah, the Prophet's (saws) hometown. Makkah had a total pagan population with no Jews or Christians living in it, only Madinah had Jews living in it, furthermore Christian preaching hadn't touched the Hijaz region were the Prophet (saws) lived:

The Hijaz [Arabian peninsula] had not been touched by Christian preaching. Hence organisation of the Christian church was neither to be expected nor found (New Catholic Encyclopaedia, The Catholic University of America, Washington D C, 1967, Vol. 1, pp. 721-
722.)

And also, there was no Arabic Bible present:

Moreover, if Judeo-Christian thought had really made inroads into Jahiliyyan society and culture, the absence of an Arabic translation of the Bible could not be explained. As for the New Testament, it is certain that no Arabic translation of it existed in the fourth century of Hijrah.

(Malik BenNabi, Op.Cit, p.154)

Here is a chart showing all the stories of the prophets and which city they were revealed in:

aaarz6 - Isn't it true that the Qur'an is copied from the Bible?

Most of them are from Makkah, were there were only pagans and no Jews nor Christians.

And the first Arabic Old Testament dated goes back to the ninth century:

OTarabic 1 - Isn't it true that the Qur'an is copied from the Bible?

OTarabic 1 - Isn't it true that the Qur'an is copied from the Bible?

The Oldest Arabic Manuscript of the Old Testament (British Museum arab. 1475 [Add. 26116]).

The variety of Arabic versions of Job, of which a page of the oldest is shown here, is representative of Arabic versions of the Bible as a whole.

There are at least four different versions of Job, one of which is among the earliest documents of Christian Arabic literature. The manuscript Brit. Mus. arab. 1475, which contains extensive portions of it, was written in the first half of the ninth century, probably at the monastery of St. Sabas. The version itself is from a Syro-Hexaplar base. The author of another version of Job is known: Pethion (Fatyun ibn Aiyub), who was active as a translator in Baghdad probably about the middle of the ninth century; he is also credited with translations of Sirach and the Prophets. Pethion's text of Job is divided into fifteen chapters and (according to the London manuscript) claims to be translated from the Hebrew; actually the translator worked from a Syriac exemplar. Other versions of Job go back to the Pe****ta and to the Coptic (G. Graf 1944: 126).

(Ernst Würthwein, Op.Cit, p. 224-225)

**Keltoi** · 09-29-2006

Yes, I didn't mean to imply it was a completely different religion that Muhammad brought to the world, since we worship the same God. It's difference was primarily the culture that adopted it. I realize that many different cultures eventually adopted Islam, but to European Christians and Jews, the Muslim faith seemed quite alien. Of course this is due in part to the claim by Catholic clergy that Muslims worshiped idols. Which we all obviously know isn't true. Sometimes I wonder how things might have been different if Europeans had more experience and knowledge of the Islamic world before 1095.

**Muhammad** · 10-02-2006

One important difference between the two accounts is that whereas the Bible describes the flood as a worldwide flood (see Genesis ch. 7) the Qur'an mentions it as a local flood affecting the people of Noah (see Qur'an 7:59-64). Today it is acknowledged that no record exists of a worldwide flood occurring at the time specified in the Bible.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that the flood was a worldwide event? The verses mentioned do not explicitly state that it was "local", and below is a relevant extract of Tafseer Ibn Katheer in reference to 11:40 and 54:11-14:

The beginning of the Flood and Nuh loads Every Creature in Pairs upon the Ship

This was the promise of Allah to Nuh , when the command of Allah came, the rain was continuous and there was a severe storm which did not slacken or subside, as Allah said,

[فَفَتَحْنَآ أَبْوَبَ السَّمَآءِ بِمَاءٍ مُّنْهَمِرٍ - وَفَجَّرْنَا الاٌّرْضَ عُيُوناً فَالْتَقَى المَآءُ عَلَى أَمْرٍ قَدْ قُدِرَ - وَحَمَلْنَاهُ عَلَى ذَاتِ أَلْوَحٍ وَدُسُرٍ - تَجْرِى بِأَعْيُنِنَا جَزَآءً لِّمَن كَانَ كُفِرَ ]
(So We opened the gates of the heaven with water pouring forth. And We caused springs to gush forth from the earth. So the waters (of the heaven and the earth) met for a matter predestined. And We carried him on a (ship) made of planks and nails. Floating under Our Eyes: a reward for him who had been rejected!)[54:11-14] In reference to Allah's statement,

[وَفَارَ التَّنُّورُ]
(and the oven gushed forth.) It is related from Ibn `Abbas that he said, "At-Tannur is the face of the earth.'' This verse means that the face of the earth became gushing water springs. This continued until the water gushed forth from the Tananir, which are places of fire. Therefore, water even gushed from the places where fire normally would be. This is the opinion of the majority of the Salaf (predecessors) and the scholars of the Khalaf (later generations). At this point, Allah commanded Nuh to select one pair from every kind of creature possessing a soul, and load them on the ship. Some said that this included other creatures as well, such as pairs of plants, male and female. It has also been said that the first of the birds to enter the ship was the parrot, and the last of the animals to enter was the donkey.

I did not find that it made specific mention of a "local" flood and the fact that a "pair from every kind of creature" was boarded onto the ship indicates that this was no ordinary flood. It would be good if someone could clarify this, but nevertheless, the original point made in this thread still stands true from several other perspectives.

**Ninth_Scribe** · 10-02-2006

Originally Posted by Tayyaba

I don't know if a similar thread has been made. But I will take that chance

No. This is not true. All evidence show that the Qur'an could not have been copied from the Bible.

The confusion that is caused is only due to a perceived division (breakdown) between the generations. Mohammed (PBUH) had accepted certain religious decrees that were already known in his time and he included them in the Quran to insure they would be recognised and upheld. For instance, the law that requires us to honor our ancestors was in effect before he wrote the Quran, but this doesn't mean it should not have been included in the Quran as well.

These are hardly reasons for argument, but some people's minds!

Ninth Scribe

**Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн** · 10-02-2006

ahh he(pbuh) didnt write the Qur'an..

lol

**Ninth_Scribe** · 10-03-2006

Originally Posted by Tayyaba

ahh he(pbuh) didnt write the Qur'an..

lol

Wisdom of Allah and the ages, by his hand.

kay:

Ninth Scribe

**- Qatada -** · 10-03-2006

Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe

Wisdom of Allah and the ages, by his hand.

kay:

Ninth Scribe

Say: "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided." (Qur'an 7:158)

"Neither did you (O Muhammad) read any book before it (the Qur'an), nor did you write any book (whatsoever) with your right hand. In that case, indeed, the followers of falsehood might have doubted." (Holy Qur'an, 29:48)