Jesus & Jihaad

format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs

thank you for your prompt response in removing it ....and reps.
we all need to try to be more aware of other people's feelings.

I believe the Qu'ran does say something with regards to restraining from insulting others lest they should out of ignorance insult G-d.

Anyhow, I didnt thing it wud be offending, but thanks for the look

Assalamu Aleykum

Thank you for your patience and sorry for my long time to reply
I hope all is well.

format_quote Originally Posted by duskiness

OK...i'll make big quotes not to omit anything..

Well, I didn't mean just make big quotes, make the quotes the size of the point being made, thats all I will try to make each point I write clear in order to minimize any chance of people getting confused.

format_quote Originally Posted by duskiness

ou are making out of Glo's post absurd. She said that "sword" should be take as a metaphor and pointed out other passage in Bible when this word is also use in this context.
What Glo wrote makes perfect sense, although you may disagree with not taking "sword" literally.

I hope you realise, I'm not here to belittle or make fun of anyone, I don't intend to make anyone sound illogical, I just asked, because I find, personally, that through asking I get a better understanding, thats all. I hope sincerly that Glo did not feel I was making fun or rediculing her understanding of the scripture as tha was not my intention.

I know what Glo said, and I still was confused at how it made sense that is why I stated what I stated in the hope of further clarification. It may make 'perfect sense' to you but not to me, so I am trying to understand it still.

format_quote Originally Posted by duskiness

I know that it was Glo's theory that was "illogical" to you.

Ok.

format_quote Originally Posted by duskiness

thats' quite simple - I made spelling mistake instead of "than" should be "then". Sorry

Please don't apologise for making a spelling mistake, as I am not great speller myself

1st I can understand that you take 'That's enough' to mean 'he doesn't allow to use them'

That was not refering to any spelling mistake, I was just saying that I understand what you feel was meant by Jesus when he said 'That's Enough'

format_quote Originally Posted by duskiness

I agree that they didn't know how many people were coming for Jesus. When I'm speaking about "12", i mean: 11 disciples (12 - Judas) + Jesus = 12. They had 2 swards for 12. Could we agree that those 2 swords for 12 people aren't "enough"?

I misunderstood you, sorry.

2 swords for 12 people can be enough, it al depends on who they believe they were going to be facing, you see:

If a gang of 10 people was going to kill 2 people or 3, it would mean that 2 knives would be enough for the job, just because there are 10 gang members does not mean they have to have a knive each, rather it would depend on their skill and how many enemies they think they will encounter.

format_quote Originally Posted by duskiness

I'm glad So we agree that in the end Jesus didn't allow any "physical Jihad"???

Yes, for sure, Jesus did not allowed physical fighting at the time of his Arrest.

format_quote Originally Posted by duskiness

If i understood you point, you say that Jesus was scared and that's where thoughts about defense came. After being reminded of His mission He rejected violence.

Something along those lines.

format_quote Originally Posted by duskiness

you wrote:

You see, maybe Jesus did worry, while being in an anguish and distressed state, maybe he thought that he could take Judas on, he so badly wanted the cup to pass from him. But when he saw the crowd, he felt two swords were not gonna be enough and so submitted himself. I think he did want to figfht thus he told the disciples for the swords, but when he was strenghted then he reminded himself of his mission and thus submitted to G-d's will.

I'm just saying, that He said "enough" before seeing this crowd. He had other reason to say it. He says "enough" also before His prayer (so before His "moment of weakness" as you say) and befor being comforted. So something different made Him say this

I don't understand still, I was saying that, once Jesus saw the crowd, that maybe he realised that he wasn't going to face just judas or a couple of people but more than that so he knew that it would be no point in trying to fight.

Like again if the gang above, thought they were going to go kill one person and they took one gun, and then when they got there they saw 20 people, they wouldnt try to kill them, they would change their mind and say 'Oh we just was walking this way' or something.

format_quote Originally Posted by duskiness

Ok..so just to see where we are standing: you say that overall Jesus preached non-violence but had one moment of weakness when He was thinking about using it to defend Himself, but thanks to God's comfort He finally came back to rejection of force?

I say, Jesus preached what was needed to be preached to the people, it would be abit illogical for Jesus to preach to the people about starting a war when they don't have an army, I think you need to look at the life of Jesus and his mission and see why he said what he said.

Jesus didn't come to start a goverment nor a kingdom, well earthly one, so he would have no need to preach about fighting nor wars, specially in a land which was ruled by other forces, if he went around preaching, eye for and eye, to the people they would end up in more trouble than before since 'the people' didnt have power. Thus for them, he taught what was best, i.e to suffer patiently.

But at other times, such as when a society was there, and people were needed to be delivered by G-d, G-d told them to pick up the sword, as in the Old Testament.

format_quote Originally Posted by duskiness

As you know, we believe that God reveal Himself gradually in History. Jesus was final and "full" revelation. He said "turn the other cheek". So thanks to Him (not only...) we know killing is bad, bad, bad. And as you know Moses was fighting for land. To be a martyr I think you should fight only for God without worldly goals. And yes, rather not fight but resist from fighting

SO would G-d ask you to do something bad? What about the stoning and so forth that G-d ordered??

What about when they were fighting for G-d?
I read:

Deuteronomy 20:

4 For the LORD your God is the one who goes with you to fight for you against your enemies to give you victory."

Deuteronomy 20:

16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you.

Numbers 31:

1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people."

3 So Moses said to the people, "Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites and to carry out the LORD's vengeance on them.

So in some cases it wasn't just 'for land', rather it seems people felt commanded to go fight and give their life in a war, are you not going to honour those people? It's not an easy thing to just go into war, it can be scary yet those brave men done it. Don't you think it takes a whole lot of devotion to put your life on the line for G-d?

format_quote Originally Posted by duskiness

So you think that God is asking us to kill? Or maybe He only asked it in past and not today? i can add here that if you will answer "no " to second question I'll also find it "upsetting"

I don't have a clue if He is asking you, only a true Christian would know.

format_quote Originally Posted by duskiness

LOL...no problem...I can always give you my a bit unclear replays
is Eesa your name?
take care!

Eesa is the name, yes, same as Isa just different spelling, I find people pronounce it better the other way, i.e Eesa, its how we refer to Jesus peace be upon him.

And you gotta keep patient with me too my replies are not very grammatically correct.

Peace