I have yet to meet an individual that can prove the existence of this unseen entity that is known universally as god. My core beliefs stem from the fact that this world came to be by mere chance and probability. That is why I would to like call out to any one that can prove to me (once and for all) the existence of this so called god ( or maybe gods ……ha-ha).
P.S please try to use references to prove your points that are based on solid scientific facts
I'm going to learn the Islamic view on Satanism which should be hillarious.
I think some care is needed in assuming Harun Yahya represents the 'Islamic' view on anything! Or at least I hope so.
No, it takes more than that (the Buddhist one) to offend me, but it really is complete garbage. It's not a point of view thing, but deliberate distortion and omissions... and there is no attempt whatsoever to present a Buddhist perspective. I love the bit about how Hollywood has been infecting Western society with Buddhist propaganda!
I only hope this isn't typical of Yahya's output.. if it is I would strongly advise posters to look elsewhere for anything resembling truth or objectivity.
For the record, if anybody has a serious interest in comparisons between Islam and Buddhism I'd recommend a book, Global Civilization: A Buddhist-Islamic Dialogue by Daisaku Ikeda and Majid Tehranian. The former is a renowned Buddhist who has debated with the likes of Kissenger, Gorbachev, Castro and Mandela, the latter a muslim scholar actually worthy of that name. It addresses all the issues in a thorough, and mutually respectful fashion.
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
I'm going to learn about the 'collapse' of atheism. Apparently I don't exist.
Oh, no, you certainly exist. Although only as part of a 'bloody' alliance with other materialists, Darwinists, fascists and, erm.. Satanists. Who don't actually believe in Satan, apparently. Knowing next to nothing about Satanism the last bit might even be true - it does seem to come from the Satanists themselves.
Seeing you’re seriously not interested in a proper debate, I think I’ll stick to discussing the issue with Trumble since he seems to have a better understanding of science and reality than yourself.
lol really for someone like you to say something like:
Why can one not be both a creator and created? Are you yourself unable to create? Can't you bake a cake or something thereby creating it? Can't you make a poem? If you do, you've created, and you also believe that you yourself were created.
It really shows you have no idea about science, it’s elementary knowledge that matter and energy are conserved quantities, lol you seem to have the ice-age beliefs that you can make matter out of nothing. Baking cakes isn’t creating anything, it’s merely converting matter from one form to another… I’ll leave that to you to get a personal tutor to help you understand that concept….
Besidses the fact you ignored every single physical explanation and derivation I gave you for my ideas. I think you really do give a bad image to atheists, looks like you pick and choose which principles of physics you want to believe in, you don’t’ really believe in kinematics do you?
And regarding your coin example… perhaps if you read my reasoning you’d understand that it would be possible for a coin to land on an angle if the equilibrium requirements for that particular position could be met. I challenged you to prove to me that marbles could form that particular arrangement given infinite time, and you totally ignored that.
You really are living in the realms of metaphysics to think that given infinite time flipping a coin would yield some weird figure. Each single event can be treated independently, that is, if you tossed a coin, the result could have been deemed possible even before the coin was tossed, simply because you could treat the tossing of a coin as a dynamics problem and simulate the possible outcomes yourself.
Tossing the coin infinitely does not mean that the rules of dynamics break down given infinite time. If you thin it does, you need to provide us some analytical proof.
Anyway.. till you decide to be a bit more logical and make thorough and proper analytical replies… I don’t think you’re worth the hassle, simply because you really aren’t interested in debating.
If you learn’t a little about the concept of cosmological singularity you’d realize that the big bang isn’t even a result of any former physical event, (this whole multi universe theory is truly a figment of the imagination), it’s 100% unpredictable. If you read into it.. you’d also realize that spacetime originiated with the big bang… so the whole time you where laughing at the idea of time independent beings, really shows your lack of understanding of astrophysics… and your accusation of me having flawed understanding of probability is pretty lame when you consider the Hartle-Hawking wave function which is precisely related to probability of time existing prior to the beginning of the universe!
I'll get back to trumble hopefully soon been heldup a bit! sorry for delay! In meanwhile Pygo can try get his head around mass/energy conservation principles
and, erm.. Satanists. Who don't actually believe in Satan, apparently. Knowing next to nothing about Satanism the last bit might even be true - it does seem to come from the Satanists themselves.
That is true, for the most part anyway. Satanism has no central body or official leadership (though some would claim Lavey etc). It can mean anything from the pop cultural references involving animal sacrifice to people who simply see Satan as a heroic literary figure (like Robin Hood).
Oh and I know that due to the evil boody alliance that I share with them. We enjoy our weekends together drinking human blood and kicking puppies. kay:
As to lolwhatever, well here in this post for the first time we have a post consisting exclusively of verbal diareah. There's been a lot of it in his posts before, but in this one there is nothing at all to respond to. No actual points made. So um, instead of sinking to his level and calling him names and such I'll just move along.
As to lolwhatever, well here in this post for the first time we have a post consisting exclusively of verbal diareah. There's been a lot of it in his posts before, but in this one there is nothing at all to respond to. No actual points made. So um, instead of sinking to his level and calling him names and such I'll just move along.
what a way to flee from a debate.
i'll summarise what my post achieved:
a. i proved that given infinite time, you don't get events happenign taht defy the laws of physics.
(on a side note... even athiests like Q.Smith declare that the beginning of the universe was uncaused and unpredictable, using quantum cosmology principles, whether it was 'uncaused' as he defines the term is debatable, but it sure is far off from the arguments pygo been dragging along with him).
b. i showed his analogy of cake baking to be low and hollow. (read above for more info)
c. pointed out that he ignroed every single analytical example i gave to support my ideas.
I'll get back to trumble hopefully soon been heldup a bit! sorry for delay!
I'm not sure there's a lot of point, we have both made our positions clear on everything relevant at least twice. And, regarding the main issue, I don't think most of it even is relevant.
Besides which, having seen the Harun Yahya movie on Buddhism I think it's about time I started a "Questions on Buddhism answered by a Buddhist" thread!
you know what I think.....truthfully??? well....I think this thread should be closed.....
firstly coz you appreciate the truth more when you have to go out and find it yourself...rather than it being handed to you over here, also you cant debate or argue with a book which is a good thing coz it'd ease the tension and frustration that is so apparant in this thread sometimes.... peace...
This is really interesting, because I've never known Muslims to condemn Buddhism at all or to mock Buddhists in any way. I even know of a few Muslims, one namely Reza Aslan, who actually think that the Buddha was a prophet.
I used to be a Buddhist, but it's not for me thankfully. I swear I must have read about and dabbled in a lot of crap back and forth before finding my straight, simple path to God. God is the one, the everything, and I think we all need to just connect with that source.
Don't develop religious tunnel vision. Investigate.
I even know of a few Muslims, one namely Reza Aslan, who actually think that the Buddha was a prophet.
Quite a lot do, I think. From a muslim point of view it's a reasonable perspective.
I used to be a Buddhist, but it's not for me thankfully. I swear I must have read about and dabbled in a lot of crap back and forth before finding my straight, simple path to God. God is the one, the everything, and I think we all need to just connect with that source.
That's what it's all about, really. At the end of the day anybody seeking spiritual fulfillment has to be looking for the same thing, that same 'source'. There are just many interpretations of what it may be, and I think most of us would agree that whatever it is it something that can only ever be experienced rather than explained using language. And there are, I think, just as many ways to get there.
That's why I think religious tolerance, choice and freedom are so important. Practicising Christians, Jews, muslims, Buddhists are all good people, or at least that is what they strive to be. The more pious and devout they are, generally the better people they are. If there is a Paradise, in whatever form it may be, I simply cannot believe that all such people will not, in time, enter it regardless of whether or not they accept any particular concept of what that source, or God may be. That's probably my biggest problem with Islam, BTW, I just can't concieve of a God who would not arrange things like that simply because He was 'denied'. It just makes no sense to me.
Quite a lot do, I think. From a muslim point of view it's a reasonable perspective.
That's what it's all about, really. At the end of the day anybody seeking spiritual fulfillment has to be looking for the same thing, that same 'source'. There are just many interpretations of what it may be, and I think most of us would agree that whatever it is it something that can only ever be experienced rather than explained using language. And there are, I think, just as many ways to get there.
That's why I think religious tolerance, choice and freedom are so important. Practicising Christians, Jews, muslims, Buddhists are all good people, or at least that is what they strive to be. The more pious and devout they are, generally the better people they are. If there is a Paradise, in whatever form it may be, I simply cannot believe that all such people will not, in time, enter it regardless of whether or not they accept any particular concept of what that source, or God may be. That's probably my biggest problem with Islam, BTW, I just can't concieve of a God who would not arrange things like that simply because He was 'denied'. It just makes no sense to me.
I completely agree with you on a lot of points here. We already agree that Jews, Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, even Pagans should be treated like human beings with respect, and that we're all searching for the same thing. I remember when I used to call myself a "Pagan" (pagan in the sense of agnostic/wicca/witchcraft). Honestly, Pagans were some of the nicest, most sane people I've ever been around.
But I know that if I was in "paradise", I would not want to see Mr. Adolf Hitler. Could you imagine being in the "pearly gates", and walking down the road waving at people like him? I honestly do not think that people who have committed such acts against innocent people should get away with it.
Do you honestly think it is just for such people to go to "heaven"? I think that if a person wasn't put to justice on this earth, then maybe they should suffer for their actions in the afterlife instead. Honestly, none of us really deserve to go to heaven because we're definately not perfect, but people who do terrible things to innocent people and have absolutely no remorse? Just the thought of them being able to have a pleasant afterlife is disgusting to me.
I mean honestly, we make our own heaven and we make our own hell. If you want to raise hell on earth, then that's what you'll get in the afterlife.
Don't develop religious tunnel vision. Investigate.
I remember when I used to call myself a "Pagan" (pagan in the sense of agnostic/wicca/witchcraft). Honestly, Pagans were some of the nicest, most sane people I've ever been around.
Yup, they are a nice bunch usually. It's just the 'witchcraft' association, which leads to the 'Satanist' association (something completely different) that gives them a bad press sometimes.
But I know that if I was in "paradise", I would not want to see Mr. Adolf Hitler. Could you imagine being in the "pearly gates", and walking down the road waving at people like him? I honestly do not think that people who have committed such acts against innocent people should get away with it.
Do you honestly think it is just for such people to go to "heaven"?
Me? Not at all! That's partly the point I was making, although I don't believe there is one to go to, of course. I guess its the "absolutely no remorse" that is important; if such a person truly repented, and made such reparations as they could while still alive they should be admitted. But such people never (or at least very rarely) do in practice.
The other part of my point, in relation to Islam, - and please correct me if I'm wrong - is that not accepting the Judeo/Christian/Islamic God would automatically deny admission. I just find it absurd that that would include the huge numbers of Buddhists, Hindus, atheists and whatever that devote their lives to helping others.
So Trumble, wt do you think wil hapen to u when u die?
I think I will cease to exist. 'My' stream of consciousness (there is no 'me' independent of that ever-changing stream) will merge with the universe and cause a new form to be born, or 'reborn', in some form or other. That reborn entity will be different - everything changes all the time - but conditioned by what has gone before.
about time I started a "Questions on Buddhism answered by a Buddhist" thread!
Now there's a GREAT idea.
Buddhism along with Taoism and other eastern philosphies/religions I actually have a lot admiration for. You rarely hear to Buddhists and Taoists on the warpath. The dalai llama (is he buddhist or something similar?) has a lot of views that I completely agree with. For a religious icon he's awfully freindly to secular thought.
To my understanding and Allah knows best.
According to your deeds (good and bad) will determine paradise or hell. you will be shown your place in heaven and in hell But Allah (swt) knows best. Also You will be asked three question
1 Who is your God
2 Who is his Muhammad (saw)
3 What is your religion
a. i proved that given infinite time, you don't get events happenign taht defy the laws of physics.
Dude, stop trying to claim victory and stop spitting out nasty goo. It only makes you look childish.
You haven't proved anything to the satisfaction of anybody who isn't a muslim here, not before I entered the discussion, not after I did. NOt to the numersous non-muslims and even muslims who said these things can't be proved, not to anybody but your own self important mind.
You don't know what is possible regarding the formation of the universe and physica laws that may have governed it (as I pointed out science has already disproved numerous 'laws' formerly thought unasailable), yet you claim you do. And then you claim that this somehow magically proves a God.
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Truth= god does not exist? (OP)
I'm downloading the one that will show me that Buddhism isNothing like a bit of religious intolerance for a good laugh.
kay:
what a way to flee from a debate.
which is a good thing coz it'd ease the tension and frustration that is so apparant in this thread sometimes.... peace...
Don't develop religious tunnel vision. Investigate. 
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