I have yet to meet an individual that can prove the existence of this unseen entity that is known universally as god. My core beliefs stem from the fact that this world came to be by mere chance and probability. That is why I would to like call out to any one that can prove to me (once and for all) the existence of this so called god ( or maybe gods ……ha-ha).
P.S please try to use references to prove your points that are based on solid scientific facts
So does choas create organization, something in perfection? Answer please?
format_quote Originally Posted by Tayyaba
lol at least answer mine "buddy"
P.S. if u have a question, ask in a civil manner, not like an animal.
what is so uncivil by the use of the word "buddy"
please think before replying
it is only perfect because u said its perfect!
which lead s me to ask u what make something perfect because i can say a piece of rock or mucus is perfect
Yet u still have to measure something u can "feel." Looking at such a complex design as the Earth, humans, animals, everything inside and out, u still need proof?
can you please be more specific so i can properly reply
Hi nogod,
You seem to think that because you can 'see' the sun it therefore must exist. You evidently have not heard of solipsism. How can you prove that anything except your own mind exists?? How do you know everything you see, hear, smell, taste or otherwise percieve are not just conjured in your mind? You don't, do you? Go look up solisism if you are still unsure as to what I'm talking about.
Answer that before we continue.
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]
what are u talking about "buddy"
again try to prove the exsistence this allaaah haha
you want me to get a ladder, climb up to heaven, and come bak down with signed proof and two angels on each side, thats wat u want. it aint happenin buddy. Try take the hint, no-ones managed to live forever, 90% of the world is either muslim/christian or some other faith.
i cud talk science all day wiv u and statistics but wats the point if your blind, i cant teach a blind man to see
-
My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
-
very good
please now proceed and prove the exsistence of this god
'very good' is not an answer to my question. Can you 'prove' the existence of ANYTHING other than your own mind? Can you prove the existence of what you see? How do you know it is not an image conjured in your mind?
I dislike repeating myself. Please answer my questions directly this time.
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]
Masha Allah very interesting discussion....carry on I'll get my fat note book and take down notes (I got an eassy to do something very similar to this)
I promised myself i wouldnt get into these debates, coz i think at the end, even if you prove your point, you still end up looking like a retard.lol
first things first, there is no proof of God, if there was, then there would be no point of a religion because the aspect of Faith upon which religion depends upon, is not present. Imagine i tell you, prove to me your computer exists, and you say, yes im typing on the keyboard, then i say, ok, now believe that the computer exists.lol..it doesnt make sense. Some people say, well why doesnt God just come down and show himself, firstly he isnt a physical entity to be seen, secondly, if he did, again, the aspect of faith has dissapeared.
A few things to think about though.
Point 1.
Its called reasoning and logic, ultimately science is based upon this, nor core facts (trust me, im studying medicine, and everything we learn is just a 'theory' which is then taken to be proof). For example, we remained for hundreds of years following newtons first law,until Einstein came along and said we cant go faster than the speed of light, they are all theories, not 'solid proof'. Therefore, if you see a picture, for example a Van Gogh, whether it is a dog,cat,landscape,portrait, you look at it and tell me, its a van Gough, because he has a certain style. Similarly, why when we look at this world we dont say, well these humans,animals plants etc... they are all by the same artist. On the contrary, what your saying is, they all look the same, but i think it makes more sense to assume that the the picture painted itself, with paint and a paintbrush that came from nowhere. Not logic. If you think that we are made by evolution, then again, fine believe we came from animals, but that doesnt negate the point that animals were created by God.
Point 2.
If we are simply mere chance, and we began from the Big-bang, then why is it that despite billions of KNOWN planets, universes,solar systems..the lot. We are the only planet to have obvious human life. In other words, we all started from the big-bang,randomly,noone caused it. Why didnt everything evolve in the same way, so that every planet, or at least 1/100000000000000000000000 planets ended up with a human being, or even an amoeba (one celled organism). Yes, we havent explored that far out, however we can still trace millions of planets, and not one has similar life to us. Hence why NASA are going crazy trying to find water somewhere, to show that life exists. The reason why we turned out different, or why we evolved differently if you may, is because something interfered in that, and im not saying believe in the Muslim God, but rather, that thing/person which caused that change and for us to be in existance must, in my opinion, exist.
To give u a scientific example once again, Newtons first law states that an object at rest tends to stay at rest and an object in motion tends to stay in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an external resultant force. If no external force acts, then everthing will remain uniform, apply the same to the universe, we are expanding at a constant speed, yet, why the huge differences in planets, and so on...
Point 3
If we were created by chance, and this world has no point to it, why dont we just go and kill ourselves. We complain about this life so so much, and we started by chance, so when your drowning in the swimming pool, why scream for help, why dont u jst let yourself drown, what have you got to live for? I dont intend any insult by this point, but in life, we only work for something when there is a point, or outcome. E.G i worked my ass off to get into med-school, i wanted to get into med-school so i could have a good career and a good job, i want a good rewarding job because i want to raise a family, etc etc...(simplified view of my life.lool)If there is no point to our existance its only logical for there to be no point to us living either, however your instinctive action to stay alive shows me that God exists. Again, scientific point. DNA has loads of parts, and some parts, we dont know what they do, they are just there, they dont code for anything, theyre useless. yet i asked a professor the reason for there presense and he said that we dont know yet. he didnt say that there was no point to them! Things in nature/science arent created for 'no reason', everything has a purpose. So we must have been created for a purpose, by someon/thing that actualy knew what it was doing, not some random process.
Point 4
This is a vague point, and kinda ties in with the previous ones, but ive got an early start tomorrow, and need to get some sleep! Basically, the very fact that you question the existance of God, is more or less showing you that a God out there exists. For e.g you wouldnt go hungry if there was no food, or you wouldnt become thirsty if there was no water! Most of the time, we dont question something that is soo remotely unbelievable, and distant....
Lastly, i doubt ive convinced you of the existance of God, and to be honest i hardly expected it when writing this. Thinking about this stuff makes me more firm in my belief and just higlights to me that the path i am on is the true one in my eyes. The way your question was posed shows you are looking for a challenge as opposed to wanting to actually find an answer. You probably already ahd your mind made before you read this either way. Thing is? In science, proof never refutes a theory it only backs one up. In other words, when i carry out a scientific experiment, irrespective of the outcome, it can never 'prove' that a theory is wrong, it can only prove a theory is right...if that makes sense. For e.g is light a wave or a particle, there are theories to SUPPORT both only, and none to REFUTE. Point being, if we want to do everything the scientific way, you have to prove that god doesnt exist, not the other way round.
Hope i dont sound patronising or arrogant, and forgive me if i do, for it was no my intention.
May you find happiness in this life, and suceed in whatever you do...
A human is two things, either your brother in Islam, or your brother in humanity.
for the last time i am not here to bash on anyone nor am i here to act like a smarttalker( if u know what i mean). please be more logical and realistic
read the Quran. Nothing gets more logical
i hope you find what your looking for , may our intelligence help us attain success !
-
My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
-
'very good' is not an answer to my question. Can you 'prove' the existence of ANYTHING other than your own mind? Can you prove the existence of what you see? How do you know it is not an image conjured in your mind?
I dislike repeating myself. Please answer my questions directly this time.
and what standard should i use to answer your question
very good
please now proceed and prove the exsistence of this god
Why not you proceed proving his nonexistence? Since you mention probability in the beginning of your post as well as chance ... the probability of this much perfection and this much detail happening on its own volition is too phenomenal to be a chance happening. Show me just one thing in the history of mankind in a controlled laboratory setting, that has produced that much a favorable outcome and we can contrast it to the non-controlled creation of which the existence of God seems an illogical impossibility.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
very good
please now proceed and prove the exsistence of this god
Prove that you exist. i contend that you are simply a computer program generating random words that by coincidence are forming understandable sentences. The universe is between 5 and 20 billion years old. More than ample time for me to be reading what appears to be words, but are simply random electrical impulses that are causing the appearance of words on my monitor.
I am happy with my own understanding of God(swt). I have the opposite question for you. Prove that the universe was created by chance. You must have some reason to believe the universe exists, explain how it came into existance and prove it.
Perhaps if you knew something about math, you'd understand that it's 100% wrong of you to even suggest that such a probabalistic monstrosity could occur.... simply put... if you take the limit of a probability function that models the existance of this universe - ranging from the bgi bang, to the organistaion fo chaos, to the evolution of all sorts of things to their current states, no mathematicision would argue that the probability literally is not ZERO.
Try disproving that if you wish... based on that, knowing that the probability is literally zero in the limit, surely there's gotta be some sort of intelligent designer behind it all."
I advise you to take a course in math.... you'll learn alot trust me (math is a science btw)
Last edited by Ibn Abi Ahmed; 11-01-2006 at 12:48 AM.
“Do not argue with your Lord on behalf of your soul, rather argue with your soul on behalf of your Lord.” - Dhul-Nun
"It is the very pursuit of happiness that thwarts happiness." - Victor Frankl
i have already read too many excellent refutations, especially lolwatever's refutation, i believe its time for NoGOD to become "ONEGODONLY" thts Allah swt
-
My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
-
I promised myself i wouldnt get into these debates, coz i think at the end, even if you prove your point, you still end up looking like a retard.lol
first things first, there is no proof of God, if there was, then there would be no point of a religion because the aspect of Faith upon which religion depends upon, is not present. Imagine i tell you, prove to me your computer exists, and you say, yes im typing on the keyboard, then i say, ok, now believe that the computer exists.lol..it doesnt make sense. Some people say, well why doesnt God just come down and show himself, firstly he isnt a physical entity to be seen, secondly, if he did, again, the aspect of faith has dissapeared.
A few things to think about though.
Point 1.
Its called reasoning and logic, ultimately science is based upon this, nor core facts (trust me, im studying medicine, and everything we learn is just a 'theory' which is then taken to be proof). For example, we remained for hundreds of years following newtons first law,until Einstein came along and said we cant go faster than the speed of light, they are all theories, not 'solid proof'. Therefore, if you see a picture, for example a Van Gogh, whether it is a dog,cat,landscape,portrait, you look at it and tell me, its a van Gough, because he has a certain style. Similarly, why when we look at this world we dont say, well these humans,animals plants etc... they are all by the same artist. On the contrary, what your saying is, they all look the same, but i think it makes more sense to assume that the the picture painted itself, with paint and a paintbrush that came from nowhere. Not logic. If you think that we are made by evolution, then again, fine believe we came from animals, but that doesnt negate the point that animals were created by God.
Point 2.
If we are simply mere chance, and we began from the Big-bang, then why is it that despite billions of KNOWN planets, universes,solar systems..the lot. We are the only planet to have obvious human life. In other words, we all started from the big-bang,randomly,noone caused it. Why didnt everything evolve in the same way, so that every planet, or at least 1/100000000000000000000000 planets ended up with a human being, or even an amoeba (one celled organism). Yes, we havent explored that far out, however we can still trace millions of planets, and not one has similar life to us. Hence why NASA are going crazy trying to find water somewhere, to show that life exists. The reason why we turned out different, or why we evolved differently if you may, is because something interfered in that, and im not saying believe in the Muslim God, but rather, that thing/person which caused that change and for us to be in existance must, in my opinion, exist.
To give u a scientific example once again, Newtons first law states that an object at rest tends to stay at rest and an object in motion tends to stay in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an external resultant force. If no external force acts, then everthing will remain uniform, apply the same to the universe, we are expanding at a constant speed, yet, why the huge differences in planets, and so on...
Point 3
If we were created by chance, and this world has no point to it, why dont we just go and kill ourselves. We complain about this life so so much, and we started by chance, so when your drowning in the swimming pool, why scream for help, why dont u jst let yourself drown, what have you got to live for? I dont intend any insult by this point, but in life, we only work for something when there is a point, or outcome. E.G i worked my ass off to get into med-school, i wanted to get into med-school so i could have a good career and a good job, i want a good rewarding job because i want to raise a family, etc etc...(simplified view of my life.lool)If there is no point to our existance its only logical for there to be no point to us living either, however your instinctive action to stay alive shows me that God exists. Again, scientific point. DNA has loads of parts, and some parts, we dont know what they do, they are just there, they dont code for anything, theyre useless. yet i asked a professor the reason for there presense and he said that we dont know yet. he didnt say that there was no point to them! Things in nature/science arent created for 'no reason', everything has a purpose. So we must have been created for a purpose, by someon/thing that actualy knew what it was doing, not some random process.
Point 4
This is a vague point, and kinda ties in with the previous ones, but ive got an early start tomorrow, and need to get some sleep! Basically, the very fact that you question the existance of God, is more or less showing you that a God out there exists. For e.g you wouldnt go hungry if there was no food, or you wouldnt become thirsty if there was no water! Most of the time, we dont question something that is soo remotely unbelievable, and distant....
Lastly, i doubt ive convinced you of the existance of God, and to be honest i hardly expected it when writing this. Thinking about this stuff makes me more firm in my belief and just higlights to me that the path i am on is the true one in my eyes. The way your question was posed shows you are looking for a challenge as opposed to wanting to actually find an answer. You probably already ahd your mind made before you read this either way. Thing is? In science, proof never refutes a theory it only backs one up. In other words, when i carry out a scientific experiment, irrespective of the outcome, it can never 'prove' that a theory is wrong, it can only prove a theory is right...if that makes sense. For e.g is light a wave or a particle, there are theories to SUPPORT both only, and none to REFUTE. Point being, if we want to do everything the scientific way, you have to prove that god doesnt exist, not the other way round.
Hope i dont sound patronising or arrogant, and forgive me if i do, for it was no my intention.
May you find happiness in this life, and suceed in whatever you do...
A human is two things, either your brother in Islam, or your brother in humanity.
You all need to look at what you are saying in response to
Please try to use references to prove your points that are based on solid scientific facts
First let’s not ignore “Exsist”..
And then evaluate the answers.
Do you believe in the Sun?
The bacterial flagellum's stator, rotor, drive-shaft, U-joint, and propeller
Does chaos create organization?
Can you see light?
i can quite easily slap you, good luck showing me the pain.
if u have a question, ask in a civil manner, not like an animal.
I know its possible, so is the airplane, but someone had to design and create it -- correct?
A blind person will never see the blue sky.
You dont even understand what 'God' is.
You would never get it.
So does choas create organization, something in perfection?
Yet u still have to measure something u can "feel."
so make an equipment to measure someones faith which God himself bestows.
The complexity we find in every system in the universe is a testmony to the power of the Creator.
I dont ask you to believe. But we demand respect buddy.
You have failed to respond to any of our arguements!
You seem to think that because you can 'see' the sun it therefore must exist.
you want me to get a ladder, climb up to heaven.
Can you 'prove' the existence of ANYTHING other than your own mind?
read the Quran. Nothing gets more logical
Prove that you exist.
You guys have done a poor job. Just arguments, no proof like he asked for. And the arguments are really bad. I’m just sitting back laughing. All emotion and no logic.
If you would simply acknowledge that when it comes to god “There is no Proof” you would eliminate a lot of empty rhetoric.
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Truth= god does not exist? (OP)
i hope you find what your looking for , may our intelligence help us attain success !
Re: Truth= god does not exsist!
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