Lets hope this goes "decently" notffended: lol...
Well the 'Prove that the Qur'an is NOT the word of God' thread inspired me into making this topic. Here's a chance for all of our Christian and Jewish members to PROVE that the Bible IS the Word of God.
To get this to start off, I, as a Muslim, I cannot accept the fact that the so-called "Word of God" can and does contain the obscene and abhorrent language that is presently found in todays Bible. Just look at what is found in the book of Ezekiel, chapter 23:
1The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
2Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother:
3 And they committed *****doms in Egypt; they committed *****doms in their youth: there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity.
4And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah.
5 And Aholah played the harlot when she was mine; and she doted on her lovers, on the Assyrians her neighbours,
6Which were clothed with blue, captains and rulers, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding upon horses.
7 Thus she committed her *****doms with them, with all them that were the chosen men of Assyria, and with all on whom she doted: with all their idols she defiled herself.
8Neither left she her *****doms brought from Egypt: for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their *****dom upon her.
9Wherefore I have delivered her into the hand of her lovers, into the hand of the Assyrians, upon whom she doted.
10These discovered her nakedness: they took her sons and her daughters, and slew her with the sword: and she became famous among women; for they had executed judgment upon her.
11And when her sister Aholibah saw this, she was more corrupt in her inordinate love than she, and in her *****doms more than her sister in her *****doms. [!]
12 She doted [lusted] upon the Assyrians her neighbours, captains and rulers clothed most gorgeously, horsemen riding upon horses, all of them desirable young men.
13Then I saw that she was defiled, that they took both one way,
14And that she increased her *****doms: for when she saw men pourtrayed upon the wall, the images of the Chaldeans pourtrayed with vermilion,
15Girded with girdles upon their loins, exceeding in dyed attire upon their heads, all of them princes to look to, after the manner of the Babylonians of Chaldea, the land of their nativity:
16And as soon as she saw them with her eyes, she doted [lusted] upon them, and sent messengers unto them into Chaldea.
17And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their *****dom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them. [!]
18So she discovered her *****doms, and discovered her nakedness: then my mind was alienated from her, like as my mind was alienated from her sister.
19Yet she MULTIPLIED her *****doms [!] , in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt.
20For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.
21Thus thou calledst to remembrance the lewdness of thy youth, in bruising thy teats by the Egyptians for the paps of thy youth.
22Therefore, O Aholibah, thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will raise up thy lovers against thee, from whom thy mind is alienated, and I will bring them against thee on every side;
23The Babylonians, and all the Chaldeans, Pekod, and Shoa, and Koa, and all the Assyrians with them: all of them desirable young men, captains and rulers, great lords and renowned, all of them riding upon horses.
24And they shall come against thee with chariots, wagons, and wheels, and with an assembly of people, which shall set against thee buckler and shield and helmet round about: and I will set judgment before them, and they shall judge thee according to their judgments.
25And I will set my jealousy against thee, and they shall deal furiously with thee: they shall take away thy nose and thine ears; and thy remnant shall fall by the sword: they shall take thy sons and thy daughters; and thy residue shall be devoured by the fire.
26They shall also strip thee out of thy clothes, and take away thy fair jewels.
27Thus will I make thy lewdness to cease from thee, and thy *****dom brought from the land of Egypt: so that thou shalt not lift up thine eyes unto them, nor remember Egypt any more.
28For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will deliver thee into the hand of them whom thou hatest, into the hand of them from whom thy mind is alienated:
29And they shall deal with thee hatefully, and shall take away all thy labour, and shall leave thee naked and bare: and the nakedness of thy *****doms shall be discovered, both thy lewdness and thy *****doms.
30I will do these things unto thee, because thou hast gone a whoring after the heathen, and because thou art polluted with their idols.
31Thou hast walked in the way of thy sister; therefore will I give her cup into thine hand.
32Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou shalt drink of thy sister's cup deep and large: thou shalt be laughed to scorn and had in derision; it containeth much.
33Thou shalt be filled with drunkenness and sorrow, with the cup of astonishment and desolation, with the cup of thy sister Samaria.
34Thou shalt even drink it and suck it out, and thou shalt break the sherds thereof, and pluck off thine own breasts [!]: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
35Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast forgotten me, and cast me behind thy back, therefore bear thou also thy lewdness and thy *****doms.
36The LORD said moreover unto me; Son of man, wilt thou judge Aholah and Aholibah? yea, declare unto them their abominations;
37That they have committed adultery, and blood is in their hands, and with their idols have they committed adultery, and have also caused their sons, whom they bare unto me, to pass for them through the fire, to devour them.
38Moreover this they have done unto me: they have defiled my sanctuary in the same day, and have profaned my sabbaths.
39For when they had slain their children to their idols, then they came the same day into my sanctuary to profane it; and, lo, thus have they done in the midst of mine house.
40And furthermore, that ye have sent for men to come from far, unto whom a messenger was sent; and, lo, they came: for whom thou didst wash thyself, paintedst thy eyes, and deckedst thyself with ornaments,
41And satest upon a stately bed, and a table prepared before it, whereupon thou hast set mine incense and mine oil.
42And a voice of a multitude being at ease was with her: and with the men of the common sort were brought Sabeans from the wilderness, which put bracelets upon their hands, and beautiful crowns upon their heads.
43Then said I unto her that was old in adulteries, Will they now commit *****doms with her, and she with them?
44Yet they went in unto her, as they go in unto a woman that playeth the harlot: so went they in unto Aholah and unto Aholibah, the lewd women.
45And the righteous men, they shall judge them after the manner of adulteresses, and after the manner of women that shed blood; because they are adulteresses, and blood is in their hands.
46For thus saith the Lord GOD; I will bring up a company upon them, and will give them to be removed and spoiled.
47And the company shall stone them with stones, and dispatch them with their swords; they shall slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire.
48Thus will I cause lewdness to cease out of the land, that all women may be taught not to do after your lewdness.
49And they shall recompense your lewdness upon you, and ye shall bear the sins of your idols: and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.
Lets hope this goes "decently" not
the Bible predicted that one day the jews would return to israel. and they did.
the Bible said that the earth is round and hangs on nothing. so TRUE!!
the bible even said that abraham will be up to no good [and he was supposingly the first muslim.]
just saying.
the bible has contradictions and mistakes, BUT we don't claim it to be written from God.. it was written by the disciples and such,but not directly from God. why would God send down prophets AND a book? why not just the book? so yeah.. also, paper wasn't invented until 130 AD, so the Bible wasn't written on paper! so of course there will be errors every now and then.. but the message still stands clear!
excuse me but the egyptians had paper long before that .......
![[/SIGPIC1][SIGPIC]](https://www.islamicboard.com/signaturepics/sigpic7726_5.gif)
So does the Qur'anthe Bible predicted that one day the jews would return to israel. and they did.
The Bible says the Earth is a circle, not sphericalthe Bible said that the earth is round and hangs on nothing. so TRUE!!
Wrong again! Adam (pbuh) was the first Muslim.the bible even said that abraham will be up to no good [and he was supposingly the first muslim.]
Then why bother preaching it?[...]the bible has contradictions and mistakes, BUT we don't claim it to be written from God[...]
Then why not accept the REAL Word of God, the Qur'an?[...]it was written by the disciples and such,but not directly from God[...]
You expect a Book to just fall out of the sky?[..] why would God send down prophets AND a book? why not just the book? [...]
Perhaps because the Message wasn't permenant?also, paper wasn't invented until 130 AD, so the Bible wasn't written on paper! so of course there will be errors every now and then.. but the message still stands clear!
Not one of those thread again!!!
The questions is not fair, and their is no way to prove so.
I notice brother you also started with a stong offense. It would of better for you to Just ask them the question and let them asnwer to the best of their abilities.
Than you could of asked where you object in a polite manner.
Last edited by Skillganon; 11-07-2006 at 02:06 AM.
This is a subject that has been discussed many times. If this thread does not develop a new approach or if it results in bashing of any religion, it will be closed.
Yea, what bro Skill n Woodrow said...=\
The Bible says the Earth has four corners, doesn't sound so round to me?format_quote Originally Posted by thirdwatch512
Oh really? Maybe you should learn Hebrew.The Bible says the Earth is a circle, not spherical
Before commenting on the Torah, do any of you know Hebrew? or do you just naively believe the BS hate sites wash your brain with of lies.
Four corners is an expression in Hebrew to come to all sides. Which Torah hate site have you been reading? Obviously the result of your lack of knowledge has led you to be the victim of brainwashing.The Bible says the Earth has four corners, doesn't sound so round to me?
The Torah is very much the word of G-d, and the continued attempts by many to spread lies and misconceptions about the Torah only leads me to believe that they would dedicate so much time to formulate such abhorrent lies because of fear.
Last edited by IzakHalevas; 11-07-2006 at 02:31 AM.
Moses was?format_quote Originally Posted by `Abd al-Azeez
not according to 2:132
The same did Abraham enjoin upon his sons, and also Jacob, (saying): O my sons! Lo! Allah hath chosen for you the (true) religion; therefore die not save as men who have surrendered (unto Him).
lol.... please elaborate......... How does this verse exclude Adam (PBUH) from being a muslim?format_quote Originally Posted by thirdwatch512
وَوَصَّى بِهَا إِبْرَاهِيمُ بَنِيهِ وَيَعْقُوبُ يَا بَنِيَّ إِنَّ اللّهَ اصْطَفَى لَكُمُ الدِّينَ فَلاَ تَمُوتُنَّ إَلاَّ وَأَنتُم مُّسْلِمُونَ {132}[Shakir 2:132] And the same did Ibrahim enjoin on his sons and (so did) Yaqoub. O my sons! surely Allah has chosen for you (this) faith, therefore die not unless you are Muslims.
[Yusufali 2:132] And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam."
[Pickthal 2:132] The same did Abraham enjoin upon his sons, and also Jacob, (saying): O my sons! Lo! Allah hath chosen for you the (true) religion; therefore die not save as men who have surrendered (unto Him).
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
Because Islam began with the writing of the Koran. Before that there was no Islam.
Ahhhhh! I hear you say! "Muslim" means belief in one God. It is likely Adam believed in God. But nobody asked "Did Adam believe in God?".
Why does nobody ask that question?
Instead you are trying to say that everybody was a Muslim and thats why you use the word "revert" instead of "convert". It is subtle brain washing.
-
Why don't you invest in some vocational training to foster self-esteem?... you have been here for how long now? sadly, still haven't learned a thing... least of which what a Muslim or Islam means... your definition is wrong as is your entire faulty logic if we can even slap that label on it... pls buzz off or try to engage another member who is more clement than I........format_quote Originally Posted by Joe98
Can you accept the fact that any such language is purely the responsibility of the translator? A common alternative is actually "played the prostitute", presumably to sooth those who might be offended by the '*****' word. The great majority would not, BTW, and any association of the word as "obscene and abhorrent" is purely a cultural thing, and a relatively recent thing at that. Originally it was purely descriptive, and using '*****' or 'prostitute' what is actually meant by the text is clear. The word is descriptive and not used as an insult, and it is only the fact the word is used insultingly that makes it offensive in any sense. Prostitutes exist now, and they did then.format_quote Originally Posted by `Abd al-Azeez
In general terms, Christians can no more prove the Bible is the Word of God (literally, or otherwise) than you can disprove it, or indeed 'prove' the Qur'an is the Word of God. What matters is not whether you can prove either (nobody can) but whether you believe it.
Last edited by Trumble; 11-07-2006 at 05:40 AM.
Having returned to this thread after last night, I am amazed at two things:
- People have bothered to reply to it.
- Those who have bothered, have spoken very well and resonably.
I have used up most of my reps in this thread!
Peace
They know that bible contains errors and contradictions, so why do even bother to open this kind of topic???
2.1 "Alif-Lam-Mim"
2.2 "This is the Book (the Qur'an), whereof there is no doubt, a guidance to those who are Al-Muttaqun [the pious believers of Islamic Monotheism who fear Allah much (abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which He has forbidden) and love Allah much (perform all kinds of good deeds which He has ordained)]"
2.3 "Who believe in the Ghaib and perform As-Salat, and spend out of what We have provided for them."
2.4 "And who believe in that (the Qur'an) which has been sent down to you (Muhammed), and in that which was sent down before you [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) etc.] and they believe with certainty in the hereafter."
2.5 "They are on (true) guidance from their Lord, and they are successful."
2.6 "Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them wether you (O Muhammed) warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe."
2.7 "Allah has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, (i.e they are closed from accepting Allah's Guidance), and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be a great torment."
"And they say, "Be Jews or Christians, then you will be guided" Say (to them O Muhammed), "Nay, (we follow) only the religion of Ibrahim (Abraham), Hanif [Islamic Monotheism, i.e to worship none but Allah (Alone)], and he was not of Al-Mushrikun (those who worshipped others along with Allah)" 2.135
Verses taken from Surah (Chapter) Al Baqara
Last edited by vpb; 11-07-2006 at 09:48 AM.
`Abd al-Azeez,
Bible is book both about God and about human. And nothing human is strange to it.
Also term "Word of God" means something different for us both.The Bible is not simply one book compiled by one man as the Muslims claim for their Qur'an, but a compilation of 66 books, written by more than 40 authors, over a period of 1500 years! For that reason Christians have always maintained that the entire Bible shows the imprint of human hands. Evidence of this can be found in the variety of human languages used, the varying styles of writing, the differences in the author's intellects and temperaments, as well as the apparent allusions to the author's contemporary concepts of scientific knowledge, without which the scriptures would not have been understood by the people of that time. That does not mean, however, that the Bible is not authoritative, for each of the writers received their revelation by means of inspiration.
yes, it's true we call Bible "word of God". But it's Jesus, who is real "Word of God"!!! He is the biggest revelation there was. Bible is book about Him (not only - of course).
Catechism of CC108 Still, the Christian faith is not a "religion of the book." Christianity is the religion of the "Word" of God, a word which is "not a written and mute word, but the Word is incarnate and living".73 If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, "open [our] minds to understand the Scriptures."74
109 In Sacred Scripture, God speaks to man in a human way. To interpret Scripture correctly, the reader must be attentive to what the human authors truly wanted to affirm, and to what God wanted to reveal to us by their words.75
110 In order to discover the sacred authors' intention, the reader must take into account the conditions of their time and culture, the literary genres in use at that time, and the modes of feeling, speaking and narrating then current. "For the fact is that truth is differently presented and expressed in the various types of historical writing, in prophetical and poetical texts, and in other forms of literary expression."
111 But since Sacred Scripture is inspired, there is another and no less important principle of correct interpretation, without which Scripture would remain a dead letter. "Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted in the light of the same Spirit by whom it was written."
-firstly, our way of thinking about God's revelation is different. And you use your's faith standards to judge something quite different. The fact that we both use terms "revelation" and "word of God" doesn't mean we think about the same thing.format_quote Originally Posted by `Abd al-Azeez
-secondly, book of Ezekiel???This is a mistake which many of us fall into; measuring that which is unfamiliar to us by a standard which is more familiar; in this case measuring the Bible with the standard which they have borrowed from the Qur'an. Their book, the Qur'an, is believed to have been 'sent down' (Nazil or Tanzil), from heaven unfettered by the hands of men. It is this belief in scripture as a revelation which has been 'sent down' which they then impose upon the Bible as well. But it is wrong for Muslims to assume that the Bible can be measured using the same criteria as that imposed on the Qur'an.
Did you read up to there by yourself?????
Or did just copy-past from some anti-Jewish/Christian site?
If the last is true:
look hard enough in net and you will find many anti- Islamic webs. Check what they find in Quran and how the interpret it.
You do the same with our Book.
You are just like them.
Last edited by duskiness; 11-07-2006 at 11:21 AM.
http://www.watchislam.com/videos/video.php?vid=44
Watch this video, the first part talks about "The creator and creation" , and includes talk about If jesus is son of God. It's very interesting
None actually, apologize for the ignoranceformat_quote Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
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