Discussion/Questions on Sikhism

format_quote Originally Posted by ultimate truth

the video called banis and time of day... i dont class what r speakin about as a contradiction, i think its a desprate attempt to try and make up a flaw, dnt mke sence

if i do particular activities at particular times of the day believing such to be pleasing to God, would this be a ritual or not?

here is the oxford definition of the word ritual. if sikhi rites of worship fall into one of these catagories then they are ritualistic, a ritual in effect whether you call it that or not.

1. an established or prescribed procedure for a religious or other rite.

2. a system or collection of religious or other rites.

3. observance of set forms in public worship.

4. a book of rites or ceremonies.

5. a book containing the offices to be used by priests in administering the sacraments and for visitation of the sick, burial of the dead, etc.

6. a prescribed or established rite, ceremony, proceeding, or service: the ritual of the dead.

7. prescribed, established, or ceremonial acts or features collectively, as in religious services.

8. any practice or pattern of behavior regularly performed in a set manner.

9. a prescribed code of behavior regulating social conduct, as that exemplified by the raising of one's hat or the shaking of hands in greeting.

10. Psychiatry. a specific act, as hand-washing, performed repetitively to a pathological degree, occurring as a common symptom of obsessive-compulsive neurosis.

a rose by any other name would smell just as sweet and all that. its like the muslims taking interest which is prohibited for us and their banks showing a statement stating 'profit.' it is still interest they have just changed the name.

now i am no expert but by concentrating on the more visually ritualistic behaviour of the hindus and muslims around him your Guru's seem to be speaking against blind ritual done without understanding of the need or cause of it or its results and reasons.

but what your religion seems to be teaching are indeed rituals, i dont have a problem with this, this is your deen, way of life and so you have set religious rituals you see as necessary to bring you closer to the creator same as we do.

but like i said, i am no expect but this would explain the contradiction as showing when the word ritual is used and saying sikhs are against rituals then what they mean is blind rituals because it can be shown they have rituals of their own they follow either daily in the worship, weekly in collective worship or in their festivals etc.

Abu Abdullah

the video is the one of the sikh guy talking about daily prayers yes?

well i cant watch videos at work so will have to check it out later when at home.

please i hope i am not coming across as aggressive, i know i have a habit of just writing what i feel and that sometimes comes across as blunt but blunt is what i am but i dont mean it aggressively but some people see it that way.

it is just i see inherent contradictions and flaws in all man made idiologies and ways of life, and although you will disagree with me i see this with sikhi also because the guru's were just men, as well intentioned as they were and so make mistakes.

a geniune way of life and worship from God is without contradiction as is from God, anything from man will have flaws and contradictions but i will keep reading your book to give it a fair hearing (or reading) but this issue of rituals was an obvious contradiction to me straight away so hence why i mentioned it.

Abu Abdullah

anything from man will have flaws and contradictions

Can one say the same about the Quaran and Prophet Mohammed?

format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor

Well if he can prove to me Sikhi is not the religion of God, then why would I not embrace Islam, and accept Mohammed as his messenger? Nobody to this day has achieved it, so I can say I'll convert. Because it's not going to happen.

because i would not have proved to you that my religion is true, only that your's is false.

i would hope however if i can show you that your faith is false then you would look at islam as an alternative and if finding it true then embrace it as the true way as given by God to mankind.

Abu Abdullah

format_quote Originally Posted by TABS19

Can one say the same about the Quaran and Prophet Mohammed?

absolutely,

the Quran is perfect but a certain concept or verse might only make sense when taken together with something else and this is why i am reading through the sikh book rather than just qouting the bits i have found already that seem flawed or contradictory.

i am giving it a fair reading rather than qouting selectively like the christians and other disbelievers do when they attack islam.

feel free to start you own thread if you feel i am wrong in this but dont hijack this one please and dont just cut and paste articles like most non muslims do when they try to convince me that islam is not true.

if however you are a genuine seeker of the truth then please read the Quran fully, take your time over it and read it through and if you find it to be a book from God then follow it sincerely, i.e become muslim.

Abu Abdullah

I am not trying to hijack this thread, it was a question in relation to the previous one asked.

Sikh believe that the Sri Guru Granth Sahib was a direct revelation by God.

Muslims believe that the the Quran is the word of God, revealed to Mohammed, yet the Quran was compiled some time after Mohammed's death.

Mohammed was human as much as the Sikh Guru's were.

format_quote Originally Posted by DAWUD_adnan

Islam and the Quran are not from man, thus they do not have flaws, and Prophet Muhammad (SAW) does not have ANY flaws in his action becuase he lived the Quran and Islam, of both of which are elements that were send down by Allah(the One and Only True God).

Peace.

exactly, though i would ask anyone else to start their own thread on this matter if they want it discussed in detail.

i am only subjecting the sikhi faith to the same scrutiny i subject every other belief system and finding it wanting just as i have all others except for islam, it is also the same scrutiny i applied to the Quran and islam prior to becomming muslim.

i admit though as a book of philosophy the Guru Ganth Sahib has some good in it, but some flaws also which i will insha'allah bring forward just as i have done so with the contradiction of denying ritual and then practicing it.

Abu Abdullah

admit though as a book of philosophy the Guru Ganth Sahib has some good in it, but some flaws also which i will insha'allah bring forward just as i have done so with the contradiction of denying ritual and then practicing it.

This will be interesting and informative to know. Will you start a new thread in regards to this?

format_quote Originally Posted by TABS19

This will be interesting and informative to know. Will you start a new thread in regards to this?

yes,

check this same section i have already started some other threads on sikhi.

Abu Abdullah

format_quote Originally Posted by Erundur

O People, NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray.

i believe their religion is false, but if we just qoute text at them they dont accept as genuine in the first place then it is unlikely they will accept it.

we have to show them our book is true and their false, our deen true and their's false or else how can we convince them?

Assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

format_quote Originally Posted by Erundur

Change the method, not the message.

I pasted that excerpt from the Prophets (saw) last sermon to show that we had the Qur'an during his lifetime.

i see what you mean,

thanks for the clarification.

Assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

Assalaamu Alaykum,

i am shortly to be moving to Leicester which has a large sikh population so have begun to examine their faith so i can give them dawah insha'allah.

i believe i have found several obvious flaws that i could use to show their religion as being false and as long as my own faith is strong enough so i am not in danger do you think it would be allowable to visit the sikh temple to call them towards islam?

i understand the sikhs keep a communial kitchen that only serves vegetarian food, these communial meals are supposed to be open to all of every faith. is it allowable for me to attend this and eat with them for the purposes of calling them towards islam?

Assalaamu Alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

Why are you asking others? Aren't you a Muslim to know the answer? Did you become Muslim not knowing everything about Islam? :-)