Today, it has been proven that women are equally capable as men.
Then how come, Islam doesn't provide with equality? For example, a man is allowed to beat his wife. A man can have many wives even though it's proven that women can equally capable of earning as much as men, in some cases even more than men. Then how come a woman isn't allowed to have many husbands if she can afford to do so?
I didn't read your entirely. Whatever I read, I don't think it's worth responding as my point should very clear.
Intersting stance.
format_quote Originally Posted by cali dude
You only agree with me that God's word would work universally. But the difference is that you believe in forcing what you believe to be God's word universally and what I am saying is that God's word would naturally work universally. Nobody would ever need to force God's word anywhere. God's word would naturally make sense universally. Since polygamy doesn't universally make sense, it can't be considered God's word.
Well you see this is why it would be logically needed for us to understand under which presumptions we are working.
You claim that everyone would be naturally inclined to everything in God's law, whilst that might be acceptable for someone who does not hold the view that there is any evil entity, it is totally illogical for anyone who holds the view that there is.
We both know society sculps and shapes everyone, so whilst homosexuality was totally againt morality of the public many decades back, it is not more accepted, so according to your logic Judaism Christianity and Islam, might have been acceptable at a time where everyone agreed homosexality was wrong but now where society is opposite that then the religions are wrong.
Which would mean that God's word would be suseptible to acceptance only if the society which was prevalent was in accordance with it. Which is the most Illogical theory ever.
Edit: then again I wont expect an answer anyhow since you seem to hand pick posts which will only send you in circles.
Eesa
The path is long but I hope we meet,
After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.
A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.
Homosexuality is as good or bad as heterosexuality. It depends what's important to you in sexuality. If you have sex to have pleasure out of it, then you do whatever you have pleasure out of. But if you have sex to have kids, then we all know homosexuality doesn't make sense.
So if you have sex to have kids, then you better not have sex just for the pleasure of it. But if you are in heterosexual relationship just for the pleasure of it, you can't consider homosexuality to be wrong as I assume, this is what gives them the pleasure.
Today, it has been proven that women are equally capable as men.
Then how come, Islam doesn't provide with equality? For example, a man is allowed to beat his wife. A man can have many wives even though it's proven that women can equally capable of earning as much as men, in some cases even more than men. Then how come a woman isn't allowed to have many husbands if she can afford to do so?
Good Question that has ben answered to an hindu girl
If u have four husband ,who is the father of the child to be born ???
what will u four man do when she has her period ,
A man is not allowed to beat his wife but to correct her,have a look at my past quotes
A man and a woman is not equal
A man cannot bear child ,a woman can and it is very hard
the physical force of a man is greater than a woman
Also, a women can not have more than one husband for the simply reason that it would be traumatic on those involved to try to figure out who is the father other child.
Homosexuality is as good or bad as heterosexuality. It depends what's important to you in sexuality. If you have sex to have pleasure out of it, then you do whatever you have pleasure out of. But if you have sex to have kids, then we all know homosexuality doesn't make sense.
So if you have sex to have kids, then you better not have sex just for the pleasure of it. But if you are in heterosexual relationship just for the pleasure of it, you can't consider homosexuality to be wrong as I assume, this is what gives them the pleasure.
Well then if we go by that then you must agree that all religions which have in their understanding of Gods word that homosexuality is wrong, then are all fasle since homosexuality is not universally accepted as wrong.
There's the fallacy, because if there was any religion universally accepted then it would mean there would be no other religions.
The path is long but I hope we meet,
After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.
A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.
It shouldn't that polygamy is allowed unless certain conditions are not met...
It should that monogamy is the only way unless there is a special need...
That is understandable. Now with that said in order for that to be universaly applied the law would have to Written in a manner like this:
the only legal marriage is monogamy, monogamy must be followed except under the following conditions:
A
B
C
etc.
Now since a negative can not be all inclusive the listing of exclusions would become almost limitless. Special conditions unique to an individual could arise that none of us can forsee. For the list to cover all of the excluions us Humans would find the law incomprehensible.
Do you see what I saying? Polygamy should have no priority at all. Monogamy should have the priority unless there is no other way.
Pologomy is not given preference over Monogamy. In fact there are no restrictions as to who can have a Monogamous marriage. But, there are very specific rulings as to who can have a polygamous ruling and under what conditions. the reality is the ruling favors monogamy over polygamy. Polygamy is discourged for most conditions while monogamy is permitted under all conditions. (That is defining marriage as the relationship between Male and Female etc, etc,) so in order to favor Monogamy the best and most understandable way is to state the specific conditions under which polygamy is permitted.
Although I believe in living in God's will. I accept what God (not humans) does. So I wouldn't practice polygamy regardless what happens.
We also believe in living God's(swt) will and not what humans do.
You would not practice polygamy regardless of what happens?
Hypothetical situations:
God(swt) sends the angel Gabriel down and specificaly tells you to become married to a certain man and it will be a polygamous relationship
there is final the ultimate Nuclear war. You 5 other women and a 90 year old man are the only survivors. It is obvious that in order for the human race to survive there will have to be as many children born as soon as possible. Since it takes 9 months for each one and it is doubtfull that the old guy will be around for very many 9 month waits it only makes since that each women has as many children as possible in the shortest time possible.
Granted, neither of those situations are likely to happen. But, never say you would never do or say anything until after your life has ended and you have passed all of the conditions of what will happen in your life time.
Well then if we go by that then you must agree that all religions which have in their understanding of Gods word that homosexuality is wrong, then are all fasle since homosexuality is not universally accepted as wrong.
There's the fallacy, because if there was any religion universally accepted then it would mean there would be no other religions.
I've yet to see in the the SGGS that Homosexuality is wrong!
Ėk Gusā Alhu Mėrā
The One Lord, the Lord of the World, is my God Allah.
Dhan Guru Arjan Dev Mahraaj Ji!
Kal Meh Bėḏ Atharbaṇ Hū Nā Kẖuḏā Alhu Bẖa.
In the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Atharva Veda became prominent; Allah became the Name of God.
Well then if we go by that then you must agree that all religions which have in their understanding of Gods word that homosexuality is wrong, then are all fasle since homosexuality is not universally accepted as wrong.
There's the fallacy, because if there was any religion universally accepted then it would mean there would be no other religions.
Did you ever try to find out why these religions say that homosexuality is wrong? Are they saying it because they believe sexuality is to be used only for the reproduction. These religions also believe that sex without marriage is wrong. So as soon as you start using sexuality for pleasure purpose, you can't say that you are allowed to have pleasure as you wish and someone else is not.
I've yet to see in the the SGGS that Homosexuality is wrong!
Well thats amazing, and as you noticed, or I hope you did, I mentioned:
Well then if we go by that then you must agree that all religions which have in their understanding of Gods word that homosexuality is wrong, then are all fasle since homosexuality is not universally accepted as wrong.
But if you want I can look through the standard teachings one day and point something I or others might disagree with
format_quote Originally Posted by cali dude
Did you ever try to find out why these religions say that homosexuality is wrong? Are they saying it because they believe sexuality is to be used only for the reproduction. These religions also believe that sex without marriage is wrong. So as soon as you start using sexuality for pleasure purpose, you can't say that you are allowed to have pleasure as you wish and someone else is not.
Both Christianity and Islam do talk about marriage and the off shot of marriage i.e. sex. Being for passion as well as reproduction.
Yet both also condemn homosexuality, so your point still doesnt stand.
The path is long but I hope we meet,
After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.
A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.
Please don't bring Guru Granth Sahib into everything. Guru Granth Sahib is too sacred to be discussed just about everywhere.
Why should it not be brought in? It's relevant and it's a fact. - It's the reason it was compiled to show what it states, not to be kept in Sikh circles away from the world!
Ėk Gusā Alhu Mėrā
The One Lord, the Lord of the World, is my God Allah.
Dhan Guru Arjan Dev Mahraaj Ji!
Kal Meh Bėḏ Atharbaṇ Hū Nā Kẖuḏā Alhu Bẖa.
In the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Atharva Veda became prominent; Allah became the Name of God.
Well thats amazing, and as you noticed, or I hope you did, I mentioned:
Well then if we go by that then you must agree that all religions which have in their understanding of Gods word that homosexuality is wrong, then are all fasle since homosexuality is not universally accepted as wrong.
But if you want I can look through the standard teachings one day and point something I or others might disagree with
Guru Granth Sahib is not about telling people how to live their lives. Guru Granth Sahib is about gaining spiritual wisdom. That's why you can't compare Guru Granth Sahib to any other book.
format_quote Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
Both Christianity and Islam do talk about marriage and the off shot of marriage i.e. sex. Being for passion as well as reproduction.
Yet both also condemn homosexuality, so your point still doesnt stand.
Well thats amazing, and as you noticed, or I hope you did, I mentioned:
Well then if we go by that then you must agree that all religions which have in their understanding of Gods word that homosexuality is wrong, then are all fasle since homosexuality is not universally accepted as wrong.
But if you want I can look through the standard teachings one day and point something I or others might disagree with
Both Christianity and Islam do talk about marriage and the off shot of marriage i.e. sex. Being for passion as well as reproduction.
Yet both also condemn homosexuality, so your point still doesnt stand.
Wrong according to you. or maybe Chrsitians. Does not mean you're infalliable!
Ėk Gusā Alhu Mėrā
The One Lord, the Lord of the World, is my God Allah.
Dhan Guru Arjan Dev Mahraaj Ji!
Kal Meh Bėḏ Atharbaṇ Hū Nā Kẖuḏā Alhu Bẖa.
In the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Atharva Veda became prominent; Allah became the Name of God.
Guru Granth Sahib is not about telling people how to live their lives. Guru Granth Sahib is about gaining spiritual wisdom. That's why you can't compare Guru Granth Sahib to any other book.
Well look at what you stated:
format_quote Originally Posted by cali dude
Well Chris and all,
As you can see polygamy works only for certain places, for certain people and in certain situation. God's word would work universally.
So if you hold your scripture to be the word of God it should stand for all time should it not? Regardless of whether it is or it is not a law book.
Anyhow, you see, the problem you have is that your working with alot of presumptions and you have not justified why you have them so any logical type of reasoning would be hard to be conducted.
format_quote Originally Posted by cali dude
Do they tell you why homosexuality is wrong?
There is a command that it is wrong. I do not believe or recall any reason, which means it is genrally wrong otherwise we would have had a statement like 'do not commit homosexuality if you are trying for kids but if you like pleasure do it'
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Wrong according to you. or maybe Chrsitians. Does not mean you're infalliable!
I dont undersand the above please bare with me and be patient Eesa.
Last edited by Umar001; 02-15-2007 at 06:18 PM.
The path is long but I hope we meet,
After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.
A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.
By the way, I am no way in a position to comment on Guru Granth Sahib. So, I could be wrong but this is how it makes sense to me. Guru Granth Sahib is spiritual experiences of gurus and saints. Guru Granth Sahib is not to force something onto people. Since Guru Granth Sahib was written by people who obviously had direct revelation with God, following Guru Granth Sahib, one could become spiritually wise person, although revelation can only be achieved with God's grace...
As you can see polygamy works only for certain places, for certain people and in certain situation. God's word would work universally.
Apparently you missed the whole point, I think polygamy is sick.
How did I miss the point? You questioned why women can't have four husbands. I gave you explicit facts on the difficulties this would create.
You agree that polygamy can work in certain situations. Well, that's what it's there for. Certain situations only. It's not a rule but an exception.
By the way, I am no way in a position to comment on Guru Granth Sahib. So, I could be wrong but this is how it makes sense to me. Guru Granth Sahib is spiritual experiences of gurus and saints. Guru Granth Sahib is not to force something onto people. Since Guru Granth Sahib was written by people who obviously had direct revelation with God, following Guru Granth Sahib, one could become spiritually wise person, although revelation can only be achieved with God's grace...
Well then again, explain it to me logically, that God would send revelation but not tell us how to live as a nation?
So God just lets us be confused as to go about our daily dealings??
The path is long but I hope we meet,
After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.
A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.
Instead of going through all of this, can some answer simple question?
If a man is allowed to have many wives and if women are equal to men, are women allowed to have many husbands as well? :-)
Women capability to get pregnant for a nine month is a clear liability for them to have a more than one husband isn't it,a women also have a menstruation period once a month(i guess)-by a biology can she have 4 husband at the same time?
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حللت أهلاً ووطئت سهلاً "O Allah! Keep me alive as long as live is better for me, and let me die as death is better for me"
Well then again, explain it to me logically, that God would send revelation but not tell us how to live as a nation?
So God just lets us be confused as to go about our daily dealings??
I think cali is a little misinformed - It's true the Guru Granth is for the whole of humanity, but if we read with Sharda (devotion) you can find rules to lead a better spiritual life. It's not explicit, but it states those that want to seek the truth should read it. And the Hukamnams (orders) prove this.
Ėk Gusā Alhu Mėrā
The One Lord, the Lord of the World, is my God Allah.
Dhan Guru Arjan Dev Mahraaj Ji!
Kal Meh Bėḏ Atharbaṇ Hū Nā Kẖuḏā Alhu Bẖa.
In the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Atharva Veda became prominent; Allah became the Name of God.
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