From what I understand, in Islam if you are not a Muslim then you are a Kuffar, and if you are Kuffar then you go to hell. If this is the case what happened to everyone who didnt follow Islam when it didnt exist?
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
- Bertrand Russell
"He who fears being conquered is sure of defeat." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the
enemy." - George Washington
Islam has existed since the time of Adam. All of the Prophets were Muslim, and none of them worshiped partners with Allah, they only worshiped Allah alone.
From what I understand, in Islam if you are not a Muslim then you are a Kuffar, and if you are Kuffar then you go to hell. If this is the case what happened to everyone who didnt follow Islam when it didnt exist?
There is some disagreement on this matter. One might claim as you say, while others might claim that those who don't believe because they do not know anything about Islam aren't really kufars since technically they can't "disbelief" in something they don't know. I don't know, Allah subhana wa ta'ala knows best
Islam has existed since the time of Adam. All of the Prophets were Muslim, and none of them worshiped partners with Allah, they only worshiped Allah alone.
really? I find this a little hard to believe, especially since history proves otherwise... Jesus was not a Muslim either in fact none of the prophets other than Muhammad claimed to be Muslim
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
- Bertrand Russell
"He who fears being conquered is sure of defeat." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the
enemy." - George Washington
There is some disagreement on this matter. One might claim as you say, while others might claim that those who don't believe because they do not know anything about Islam aren't really kufars since technically they can't "disbelief" in something they don't know. I don't know, Allah subhana wa ta'ala knows best
this makes sense to me
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
- Bertrand Russell
"He who fears being conquered is sure of defeat." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the
enemy." - George Washington
really? I find this a little hard to believe, especially since history proves otherwise... Jesus was not a Muslim either in fact none of the prophets other than Muhammad claimed to be Muslim
This is completely false and ridiculous. First of all what historical document besides the Holy Quran as a primary source gives the history of Adam? The answer is the Bible. Ask any neutral non-religious historian if he regards the account of Adam and Eve in the Bible as "history", and he will without a doubt say no.
Islam as a general religion was always there, its main principle being submission to Allah. However, in terms of shariat it has been evolving and changing until its completion with the last Prophet Muhammad (salallahu alaihi wa salam) in accordance with the wisdom and "master plan" of Almighty Allah Tala.
The words Islam and Muslim, however, were not always there as these are Arabic words, and the Prophets of old spoke different languages, for example, Jesus Christ (alaihi salam) spoke Aramaic as the lingua franca vernacular, and understood Hebrew for religious purposes.
Islam is the belief in Allah and his holy prophets (Alaihum Salam) and angels and the day of judgement. From Adam(Alaihi Salam) upto Prophet Muhammad(SAW) all preached this same msg. So all who followed these believes "There is no God but Allah" were Muslims in their own times and followed Islam(though the same Arabic words were not used to denote their religion).Whenever there was a subsequent gap b/w generations and the msg of Allah was lost a Prophet was sent to them to revive the Religion and msg of Allah.
really? I find this a little hard to believe, especially since history proves otherwise... Jesus was not a Muslim either in fact none of the prophets other than Muhammad claimed to be Muslim
A muslim is someone who submits to God. All the prophets called to the worship of God, without associating partners [i.e. idols, human legislations etc.] with Him. This was the call of all the prophets of God, and anyone who submitted to Him, submitted to God, hence he/she was a muslim. Including the prophet himself.
The prophets came with the message that no soul bears the burden of another, and that we are all responsible for our own actions. That we will be brought back to life by God and be judged on all that we did in this life. Those who submitted to God and did good will be rewarded with Paradise, and those who rejected God and His message will be punished for taking God's message in jest.
And We sent not a Messenger except with the language of his people, in order that he might make (the Message) clear for them. Then Allah misleads whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. [Qur'an 14:4]
This is even proven in the bible many times when Jesus was ordered to:
“Go to the lost sheep of the House of Israel!” Matthew 10:6]
Whereas Muhammad (peace be upon him) is being told:
"Say: 'O mankind! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth." (Qur'an 7:158)
so are all of you saying that basically every religion is actually Islam? Jesus was a self proclaimed Jew, but since he submitted to God then he was actually a Muslim. To me this seems rather ridiculous, I too submit to God, however I am not a Muslim. Seems to me like it is a play on words, by this I mean I could create a new religion called Devotism and say that every religion in the world is actually mine since every religion calls on its followers to devote themselves to God. Basically what I am saying, is you cant say "Oh everyone before Muhammad was a Muslim" just because Muhammad decided to name his religion (or the religion God called on him to deliver to people, depending on what you believe) after a word that happened to mean to submit to God. It is just to general, also back to my original question what of the people who lived before these times of prophets and believed in multiple Gods on mountains, or the Indians who believed in Gods of the elements and prayed to the elements? What of these people, just because they never encountered a prophet do they automatically go to hell because they didnt believe in the same teachings as yourself? Or is it as Steve says above, that if you dont read the Quran you are actually not a disbeliever. If this is the case then I ask, what difference does it make then what religion you follow as long as you worship God or what you believe to be God, and why would anyone go to hell over their religion?
Personally I dont believe anyone goes to hell over their religion, and I would never label another person with an ugly name like "Kuffar" or label another group of people as "hellbound" just because they didnt follow my religion, nor would I follow a religion that did such.
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
- Bertrand Russell
"He who fears being conquered is sure of defeat." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the
enemy." - George Washington
so are all of you saying that basically every religion is actually Islam? Jesus was a self proclaimed Jew, but since he submitted to God then he was actually a Muslim. To me this seems rather ridiculous, I too submit to God, however I am not a Muslim. Seems to me like it is a play on words, by this I mean I could create a new religion called Devotism and say that every religion in the world is actually mine since every religion calls on its followers to devote themselves to God. Basically what I am saying, is you cant say "Oh everyone before Muhammad was a Muslim" just because Muhammad decided to name his religion (or the religion God called on him to deliver to people, depending on what you believe) after a word that happened to mean to submit to God.
No it is not a play on words. Your premise that you submit to God is also false. Submitting to the will of Allah in different times manifested itself in different ways, because of the will of Allah for mankind has been evolving until its completion with the Khatam-ul-Anbiya, Hazrat Muhammad Mustafa (salallahu alaihi wa salam).
Jesus Christ (alaihi salam) was sent to the people of Israel. If they accepted him as their Messiah, than they are considered as Muslims. They were under the obligation to follow the Gospel revealed from Allah. So they submitted to Allah in accordance from what He expected from them.
What Allah expects from you and I, however, is different. He expects that we accept His last Prophet (salallahu alaihi wa salam) and accept the Holy Quran. If we submit to His new expectations, than we are Muslims, if not, than we are disbelievers.
also back to my original question what of the people who lived before these times of prophets and believed in multiple Gods on mountains, or the Indians who believed in Gods of the elements and prayed to the elements? What of these people, just because they never encountered a prophet do they automatically go to hell because they didnt believe in the same teachings as yourself? Or is it as Steve says above, that if you dont read the Quran you are actually not a disbeliever. If this is the case then I ask, what difference does it make then what religion you follow as long as you worship God or what you believe to be God, and why would anyone go to hell over their religion?
Personally I dont believe anyone goes to hell over their religion, and I would never label another person with an ugly name like "Kuffar" or label another group of people as "hellbound" just because they didnt follow my religion, nor would I follow a religion that did such.
To answer your "original" question, you need to know the story of Noah (alaihi salam). Noah (alaihi salam) was sent for all humanity as well, but of course in his time humanity was still small and in its primitive development. Most of humanity, however, rejected Noah (alaihi salam), so Allah destroyed them all by a worldwide flood except for the Muslims and the animals. Allah Tala also revealed a shariat (divine law) to Noah (alaihi salam) which was binding on his followers. Thereafter, humanity began to expand into tribes and nations throughout the world. So Allah would send different Messengers and Prophets to update His laws and commandments for them separately. The Holy Quran says:
Verily We have sent thee in truth, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner: and there never was a people, without a warner having lived among them (in the past). [35:24]
So every nation had a Warner sent to them, only a small fraction of them have been mentioned by name in the Holy Quran. If people in the past worshipped idols instead of Allah, it is because they turned away from the teachings of their Prophets. Even the Israelities, who had dozens of Prophets sent for them because they were an exalted nation, would many times abandon their divine laws and indulge in idol worship. Why, even in lifetime Moses (alaihi salam) they shamelessly created the "golden calf" and worshipped it! So your point about Indians worshipping the elements, nature, etc., is not valid.
I don't know who Steve is, but he is incorrect to say that people who reject the Quran are not disbelievers, even if they haven't read it. Islam is incumbant upon all humanity, whether they have read the Quran or not.
so are all of you saying that basically every religion is actually Islam?
NO. We are saying that Islam is the ONLY religion that ALL of the Prophets preached, including Jesus. We don't believe in the bible.
also back to my original question what of the people who lived before these times of prophets and believed in multiple Gods on mountains, or the Indians who believed in Gods of the elements and prayed to the elements? What of these people, just because they never encountered a prophet do they automatically go to hell because they didnt believe in the same teachings as yourself?
First of all, there weren't any people before Prophets because Adam was the first human being who was also a Prophet. Secondly, Prophets were sent to every nation. As for those that never heard of Islam they will be faced with tests on the Day of Judgment that will determine whether or not they will go to Heaven or Hell. Allah is the most Just being in the Universe, there will be no injustices on the Day of Judgment (i.e. people being thrown in Hell for not hearing about Islam).
Personally I dont believe anyone goes to hell over their religion, and I would never label another person with an ugly name like "Kuffar" or label another group of people as "hellbound" just because they didnt follow my religion, nor would I follow a religion that did such.
i share your feelings, BUT
more than one christian on here has said that salvation is based on belief (some say belief alone and others say belief + good works). in any case, you must be a christian to go to heaven.
so i'm confused about your paragraph above. do you disagree that you must be a christian to go to heaven? almost all christians seem to hold this belief.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
Personally I dont believe anyone goes to hell over their religion, and I would never label another person with an ugly name like "Kuffar" or label another group of people as "hellbound" just because they didnt follow my religion, nor would I follow a religion that did such.
Like Malaikah and Snakelegs above I have to wonder about your paragraph MTAFFI. Isn't the whole basis of Jesus that he came to save you Christians from hell and that the only way to God is through accepting him as your lord and saviour?
Doesn't that mean all of us who don't accept Jesus or believe in God are automatically hell bound?
Actually, the Qur'an says that all muslims will go to hell as well:
According to Sura 19:71 every Muslim will go to Hell. :/
Sucks for humanity, huh?
Oh how rude of me, forgetting to quote:
No one of you there is, but he shall go down to it; That for thy Lord is a thing decreed, determined. Then We shall deliver those that were god-fearing; and the evildoers We shall leave there, hobbling on their knees.
-- Sura 19:71-72
Suran 19 ayahs 71-2 :"There is not one of you who will pass over it (Hell); this is with your Lord, a decree which must be accomplished.
Then we shall save those who used to fear Allah and were dutiful to Him. And we shall leave the wrongdoers therein humbled to their knees"
honey it's talking about passing over hell not 'in' Hell- on the Day of Judgement everyone will have to pass over the bridge which is over hell- the believers will pass over unharmed and the wrongdoers will fall into Hell
"Indeed in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find rest"
Actually, the Qur'an says that all muslims will go to hell as well:
According to Sura 19:71 every Muslim will go to Hell. :/
Sucks for humanity, huh?
LOL. How does everyone passing over hell translating into all Muslims will go to hell?
Many, many Muslims will enter paradise without even being put on trial, let alone being forced into hell fire. :rolleyes:
format_quote Originally Posted by Kathleena
No one of you there is, but he shall go down to it; That for thy Lord is a thing decreed, determined. Then We shall deliver those that were god-fearing; and the evildoers We shall leave there, hobbling on their knees. -- Sura 19:71-72
Your translation is terrible. which anti-Islamic website did you get this from?
From what I understand, in Islam if you are not a Muslim then you are a Kuffar, and if you are Kuffar then you go to hell. If this is the case what happened to everyone who didnt follow Islam when it didnt exist?
Assalamu Alaikum MTAFFI,
i'm a bit of a n00b but, let me try this and i hope, Insha' Allah, not to offend anyone.
Muslims aren't supposed to run around and tell everyone that they are going to hell if they aren't Muslim as only Allah(SWT) is "Maliki Yawmid Deen", that is" the Owner of the Day of Judgement (which actually has a plethora of other meanings); therefore Allah(SWT) and Allah ALONE will decide who goes/remains in the hellfire.
you can be a practicing Muslim and do EVERYTHING that a Muslim is supposed to do BUT if you do them without the right intentions or with arrogance or hypocrisy, then the deeds aren't even counted as having been done. OR you may do all of those things correctly BUT, and Allah forbid, you abandon your faith before you die and that is MUCH WORSE than never having believed...
a non-Muslim may have never understood Islam (and you MUST understand it to revert) for whatever reasons but their INTENT for all the good things that they did pleased Allah(SWT) so they get rewarded and as Allah(SWT) is the SOLE JUDGE, HE may award certain [seemingly] small good deeds a thousand fold and that person gets Jannah(Heaven).
as for previous Ummahs, those that followed their prophets PROPERLY are in good company, as in "submitting to Allah(SWT)'s Prophets" they are [what we now call] true Muslims.
the Messenger of Allah(SWT), Peace be upon him, came to "perfect manners" and to "enjoin good and forbid evil". IF that's NOT what you see when you view Muslims/Islam (and what are the odds today!), then the Ummah of the Rasulullah(pbuh) has some serious explaining to do on Judgement Day.
in other words... WE ARE probably in MORE trouble than non believers because we've tarnished such a beautiful religion and have failed utterly to follow the example of the Messenger of Allah(SWT), peace be upon him...
just my thoughts...
Yusuf
Had the non-believer known of all the Mercy which is in the Hands of Allah, he would not lose hope of entering Paradise, and had the believer known of all the punishment which is present with Allah, he would not consider himself safe from the Hell-Fire http://www.muftimenk.co.za/Downloads.html
From what I understand, in Islam if you are not a Muslim then you are a Kuffar, and if you are Kuffar then you go to hell. If this is the case what happened to everyone who didnt follow Islam when it didnt exist?
I've said it before and i'll say it again. At the end of the day, God decides who enters heaven or hell.
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
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All the prophets called to the worship of God, without associating partners [i.e. idols, human legislations etc.] with Him. This was the call of all the prophets of God, and anyone who submitted to Him, submitted to God, hence he/she was a muslim. Including the prophet himself.
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