Why are you an atheist?

format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos

Her leaving Islam is her predicament and for her to live with consequences, not someone else causing anyone to leave Islam. She is a grown adult, I presume.

Infanticide is btw mostly practiced by kaafirs especially in the form of abortion from teenage jollies of zina. Moreover, female infanticide is most common in India, most of them are non-Muslims.

Being open-minded about homosexuality? I am glad to be a narrow-minded bigot in that regards.

Good day indeed.

There is a reason why you will be questioned about your words/Statements on the Day of Judgement, it is because they can lead people towards Islam or away from Islam. Don't try to downplay the gravity of this situation.

It doesn't matter who practices it more (You provided no statistics), but the fact that Muslims are practicing it is completely wrong. It is practiced in Pakistan as well.

More than 1,000 infants -- most of them girls -- were killed or abandoned to die in Pakistan last year according to conservative estimates by the Edhi Foundation, a charity working to reverse the grim trend.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...2810f9802b.3c1

Try being narrow-minded about pushing people away from Islam.

format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger

More than 1,000 infants -- most of them girls -- were killed or abandoned to die in Pakistan last year according to conservative estimates by the Edhi Foundation, a charity working to reverse the grim trend.

yes, but we can produce the quran, flip over to surah taqweer and prove to them that it is totally forbidden by Islam and punishable by hell.
this is not a condoned practice in Islam
but it is condoned by many atheists and there is no law for them to prove that atheism forbids it.


"do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law".

(but obey thy politicians - or else)

format_quote Originally Posted by arjmand

I think you are not doing a fair comparison. Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was exceptional and it would be wrong to compare us to him. We can follow and try our best to do what he did, but that does not mean we will do it exactly the way he did. It is the effort that counts
Also, it is up to Allah(SWT) to guide whoever he wishes.

A fair comparison? If one does not know how to advice a Muslim, and the key phrase here is a MUSLIM, then it is best if they direct them to some else. Rather than taking that person even further away from Allah.

Is homosexuality worse than disbelieve in Allah? Because that is the progress sister soraya made. It is really painful to know that someone has left Islam because certain Muslims couldn't try to emulate the Prophet(PBUH) when it came to advice someone.

Allah also knows who among His slaves is leading some of His Slaves astray.

format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger

There is a reason why you will be questioned about your words/Statements on the Day of Judgement, it is because they can lead people towards Islam or away from Islam. Don't try to downplay the gravity of this situation.

It doesn't matter who practices it more (You provided no statistics), but the fact that Muslims are practicing it is completely wrong. It is practiced in Pakistan as well.

you can look stats up, I am pretty sure I am right about it.

I didnt deny its not practiced in Pak, but its only 1000 babies compared to millions in India. Pakistan is only trying to follow UK, why wouldnt they, UK guys left a long legacy of colonialism. You should be glad that Pakistanis are at least mentally thinking like kaafirs in terms of giving women the right to abort. That is some progress toward women rights among Muslims, No?

Let us look at Ayat (verses) 4:16-18.


(16). If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and mend, Leave them alone (do not annoy them in other words after they were punished); for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful.


(17). Allah accept the repentance of those who do evil in ignorance and repent soon afterwards; to them will Allah turn in mercy: For Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.


(18). Of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil, until death faces one of them, and he says, "Now have I repented indeed;" nor of those who die rejecting Faith: for them have We prepared a punishment most grievous."

and please don't just stare at us as if we're weird, we are just constant and steadfast - the founding fathers of the u.s killed them.

In 1778 Thomas Jefferson wrote a law in Virginia which contained a punishment of castration for men who engage in sodomy,
however, what was intended by Jefferson as a liberalization of the sodomy laws in Virginia at that time
was rejected by the Virginia Legislature, which continued to prescribe death as the maximum penalty for the crime of sodomy in that state.

Prior to 1962, sodomy was a felony in every state, punished by a lengthy term of imprisonment and/or hard labor.

By 2002, 36 states had repealed their sodomy laws or their courts had overturned them. By the time of the 2003 Supreme Court decision, the laws in most states were no longer enforced or were enforced very selectively. The continued existence of these rarely enforced laws on the statute books, however, was often cited as justification for discrimination against gay men and lesbians.

you may want to ask yourselves how it is that politician worshiping people manage to suddenly say what they did was barbaric in a split second, and then say it is ok again as soon as the politicians say so.

reminds me of that guy in orwell's book 1984 who's giving a fiery speech and changes the whole alliance in front of the dumb masses halfway through without stopping for a breath:

At one rally, the speaker is forced to change his speech halfway through to point out that Oceania is not, and has never been, at war with Eurasia. Rather, the speaker says, Oceania is, and always has been, at war with Eastasia. The people become embarrassed about carrying the anti-Eurasia signs and blame Emmanuel Goldstein’s agents for sabotaging them. Nevertheless, they exhibit full-fledged hatred for Eastasia.

format_quote Originally Posted by arjmand

Well, I thought that astray means to tell someone that Islam is wrong and to lie about Allah (SWT) and what He said.
I did not see that happening here.

word. JazakAllah for being the voice of sanity.

As'Salaamu Alaaykum

I do not believe the reason of the sister leaving Islam was due to the behaviour or posts of members, but she stated the reason here :

format_quote Originally Posted by SorayaCali

I don't think I can reconcile it with my views on homosexuality, in particular with my sister. I'd just be living a lie.

You can see the rest of the responses on this thread inshaa'Allaah

--->>> asalaamu alaykum waRahmatullahi waBarakaatuh (from California) <<<---

Also, I believe that we've gone off topic..Can we go back on topic inshaa'Allaah.. If members still wish to discuss another topic, I believe you can create a new thread for that, insha'Allaah

format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis

One last thing I'd liketo say about homosexuality and atheism. One does not imply the other. There are plenty of homosexual theists. There are plenty of heterosexual atheists. Atheists tend not to be bigotted against homosexuals (though some are) because they don't have a holy book or religious tradition telling them that they should be. When you haven't burried your natural sense of empathy under a pile of dogma you can see how hate of people for something like sexual orientation is both wrong and nonsensical.

Pygo,

why do atheists support homosexuality, but more unlikely to support bestiality or Incestuous sexual relationships?

If we use the same principles deployed by atheists to defend homosexuality, should we also legalize bestiality and incestuous relationships?

After all, those fathers cannot help to fall in love with their own daughters, so who are those atheists to tell them that their relationships is forbidden?

I think these questions are very valid, because I see double standards and hypocrisy among atheists.

format_quote Originally Posted by SorayaCali

Anyway, I think I'm done here as this place is full of very unsavory bigots and now I'm seriously re-evaluating my beliefs. I think I've made a mistake.

I feel sorry for you if you base your life belief (and which I believe will determine our eternal fate) on the opinion of few people that you disagree with.

I don't even base my opinion about USA on the action of one Bush jr who killed a million people.

can you imagine if I base my opinion about everything in life on even opinion of one or two people?

format_quote Originally Posted by Ğħαrєєвαħ

As'Salaamu Alaaykum

I do not believe the reason of the sister leaving Islam was due to the behaviour or posts of members, but she stated the reason here :

Quote Originally Posted by SorayaCali View Post
I don't think I can reconcile it with my views on homosexuality, in particular with my sister. I'd just be living a lie.

I agree.

This reminds of an ayah in the Qur'an where a person is dragged to an naar, and they scream and plead that they were only following other people during their life (actions, opinions, tradition, habit, etc).

At the end of the day, we are all responsible for our own action. If sister Soraya thinks that her belief in homosexuality is more important than belief in God, then that's her choice. She will have to answer for that.

format_quote Originally Posted by Ramadhan

I agree.

This reminds of an ayah in the Qur'an where a person is dragged to an naar, and they scream and plead that they were only following other people during their life (actions, opinions, tradition, habit, etc).

At the end of the day, we are all responsible for our own action. If sister Soraya thinks that her belief in homosexuality is more important than belief in God, then that's her choice. She will have to answer for that.

I think Soraya previously mentioned that her sister was a homosexual. That statement alone should tell us that she has a close family member that is doing something that is abhorred in Islam. I doubt sister soraya would have being so defensive about homosexuality if a loved one wasn't one. There is a huge difference between abhorring an individual and not accepting a certain behavior. We should have emphasized the fact that being against homosexual behavior isn't equivalent to hating your sister. Openly advocating for counterproductive discrimination against homosexuals did not help at all.

I doubt homosexuality is more important to her than being defensive of a family member. The topic is a personal one from her perspective. And we should not present Islam in conflicting absolutes. We can condemn an action without justifying or dismissing any harm or crime that was done to someone.

May Allah guide us.

format_quote Originally Posted by SorayaCali

You are right on the spot there, but still, I guess I'm making the right choice

You also at one point thought you were making the right choice by accepting Islam. There was something that attracted you to Islam and it had nothing to do with any of the posts on this board.

Wish you all the best.

can a mod clean up the thread please and I implore the Muslims to be brothers/sisters to one another.. it is something you really have to feel for your ummah remove any kind of animosity and need to oneup from your hearts:

Waanna hatha siratee mustaqeeman faittabiAAoohu wala tattabiAAoo alssubula fatafarraqa bikum AAan sabeelihi thalikum wassakum bihi laAAallakum tattaqoona

6:153 Verily, this is My way, leading straight: follow it: follow not (other) paths: they will scatter you about from His (great) path: thus doth He command you. that ye may be righteous.

Don't be a microcosm of the ummah astray, factioned and angry at one another constantly fighting over trifles.. I have a really painful right sided migraine and don't feel like writing people here individually or reporting threads for a cleanup but I am aggrieved by what has transpired..

Thread is temporarily closed for a clean up.

And when this thread is re-opened, please try to stick to on topic