Religious teenagers brainwashed? I don't think so!

**rebelishaulman** · 03-12-2007

It’s a psychological defense mechanism these people who claim your brainwashed are using so that they shouldn’t feel guilty for being what they are and doing what they do. When they ask themselves “You know what is right how come you don’t do it?” they need to answer to themselves that it’s not realistic for them to do it. It just ISN’T done. So when they see an adult doing the right thing they can distinguish in their heads by saying “Well, that’s a rabbi, but I’m a teenager”. Or something like that.

But when another teenager with the same tastes, urges, culture, and background rises so much higher than them leaving them in the dust, they need to psychologically find something to make themselves feel better because WHY can SHE do the right thing and not me?

So they say, “Ah, she’s brainwashed.”

Yeah, well, you’re not brainwashed, you’re deprogrammed.

Brainwashed, huh? They run to buy whatever the Gap advertises that season because otherwise they’re just soooo out of style; they pierce their tongues and various other body parts because others are doing it these days; vests, Capri pants, Fubu shirts , whatever the commercials say buy they mindlessly go out and buy . . .

. . . and you’re the one who’s brainwashed?

I don't think so.

This is how your non-brainwashed friends function:

Major companies hire people to observe adolescents to find out what is "cool". These "cool hunters", as they are called, then report their findings back to the corporations, who in turn develop product lines.

The fashion of baggy clothing originated from the skateboarding culture of the '80s. They used baggy clothing because of it was practical and allowed the skaters more freedom of movement.

In the beginning, baggy jeans were used by painters and purchased at second-hand or discount stores.

When the designers discovered this trend, they were quick to jump on the bandwagon, introducing many different types of baggy pants and making them into must-have contemporary fashion.

Pants which at one time cost two to five dollars now run upwards of fifty dollars.

And you’re the one who’s brainwashed? Yeah, right.

Almost the very first Halachah in Shulchan Aruch is “al yisbayesh mipnei hamaligim,” Do not worry about the ridiculers”.

These people have a problem. They feel guilty for doing what they do and for being what they are. They CAN change, but they refuse to admit that’s even a possibility, because then they have to look themselves in the mirror every day and answer why they don’t. So instead they go into denial, claiming that they cannot change, and that if another teenager does improve themselves, does grow, does the right thing, does make themselves happy --- that they are merely “brainwashed”. They don’t even know what the term means.

**habibti4allah7** · 03-12-2007

you know you are very much right! muslims are being called "brainwashed" numerous of times...however they are the ones that follow everything they see on television. they follow what they see in the streets and think its cool. i think it outrageous and they need to do their research before they call anyone names.

**Asyur an-Nagi** · 03-12-2007

enlightment for someone sometimes can be translated as 'brainwash' to others.

**Pygoscelis** · 03-12-2007

You are indeed on to something here.

Religion is not the only form of brainwashing.

Religion is not the only form of group think.

Religoin is not the only form of cultural pressure.

It is common amongst teenagers to get caught up in these weird little cults. Some of them even have dress codes and dogmatic catchphrases and beliefs they never really question.

But guess what? Just becuase other forms of the above exist, and they do, that doesn't mean what the author of the above seems to think. It isn't you OR them my dear religion infected teenagers. It is you AND them.

**rebelishaulman** · 03-12-2007

Originally Posted by Pygoscelis

You are indeed on to something here.

Religion is not the only form of brainwashing.

Religion is not the only form of group think.

Religoin is not the only form of cultural pressure.

It is common amongst teenagers to get caught up in these weird little cults. Some of them even have dress codes and dogmatic catchphrases and beliefs they never really question.

But guess what? Just becuase other forms of the above exist, and they do, that doesn't mean what the author of the above seems to think. It isn't you OR them my dear religion infected teenagers. It is you AND them.

No that is not brainwashing. Brainwashing means compelling your thinking process in a way that you have no control over. Judaism does not do that. But you are right that they do ask people often to get along on blind faith, not because there are no asnwers but because the instructors do not know them. There are so many "Hashkafah" or views in Judaism and I assume in other religions, that you have many choices of what interpretations and theories you have on certain things. In religious schools you are encouraged to find what you believe the meaning of life is and encouraged to develop your own theories. It is an interesting process of encouraging discovery, unlike the local GAP store that tells young teens to go and buy there product because it is "cool" and then thousands go out and buy it to look "cool".

**Malaikah** · 03-12-2007

Thanks for that.

You're right, people out there are obsessed with brainwashing us, and just for their own material benefit.

**Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн** · 03-12-2007

Nice post. So called civil society is more brainwashed than anything. Their approach is less direct than the religious ones.

**Muezzin** · 03-15-2007

Originally Posted by Pygoscelis

You are indeed on to something here.

Religion is not the only form of brainwashing.

Religion is not the only form of group think.

Religoin is not the only form of cultural pressure.

It is common amongst teenagers to get caught up in these weird little cults. Some of them even have dress codes and dogmatic catchphrases and beliefs they never really question.

But guess what? Just becuase other forms of the above exist, and they do, that doesn't mean what the author of the above seems to think. It isn't you OR them my dear religion infected teenagers. It is you AND them.

Not really.

brainwash

• verb subject (someone) to a prolonged process to transform their attitudes and beliefs totally

Oxford Dictionary

By your logic, because I am a member of a religious order, I must be brainwashed. In fact, I think, and always have thought, how I want, not how I am told to, be that by religious doctrine or media or peer pressure. I'm not nice to others solely because my religion instructs me - I'm nice to others because I've seen with my own eyes that it builds trust and harmony. In the first place, I choose to follow my religion. If I wanted to, I could leave, without any real detriment.

I'm one of those crazy people who has many friends yet doesn't really fit into any 'social group' and doesn't care because I'm happy being myself. I assume you are in a similar position.

**ABDUL HAQ** · 03-15-2007

the most effective brainwashing is making people think there is no brainwashing

and that everything that is happening in the world is for the greater good

inshaallah muslims cannot or should not get brainwashed as wehave been forewarned of all of the fitnah and tools of shaitaan,including the deception of certain humans who are youre enemies disguised as friends

**Pygoscelis** · 03-15-2007

Originally Posted by Muezzin

By your logic, because I am a member of a religious order, I must be brainwashed.

It is a matter of degree. I am sure that you follow many rules and behaviours not because they make indepent sense, but because your religious programming tells you to. However, I doubt that you are so programed that you would obey an order from a perceived higher power to commit attrocity, but others more far gone have done just that.

In fact, I think, and always have thought, how I want, not how I am told to, be that by religious doctrine or media or peer pressure.

I'm afraid that just isn't so.

As the post below yours correctly states, brainwashing is rarely recognized by the brainwashee, and social programming often goes unrecognized as well. We are ALL subject to some social programming, be it religious or non. The subject of this thread is the non religous sort, and it is common (just look at teenagers and the groups they form often even with dress codes and languages), but the religious sort is one of the strongest and most identifiable.

I'm not nice to others solely because my religion instructs me - I'm nice to others because I've seen with my own eyes that it builds trust and harmony.

This I believe. I believe this is so with most human beings. We are all subject to empathy. This is our default state. The programming of religions and other social forces are sometmes used to enforce our empathic it and sometimes to subdue it.

In the first place, I choose to follow my religion. If I wanted to, I could leave, without any real detriment.

It may not be as easy to leave as you may think. Most apostates have a lot of conflicted feelings about their apostacy. There are a lot of psychological issues you may have to deal with if you ever went apostate. There is also the community you now belong to who may react badly and treat you differently (this may or may not be the case in your particular situation but it is common).

**Muezzin** · 03-15-2007

Originally Posted by Pygoscelis

It is a matter of degree. I am sure that you follow many rules and behaviours not because they make indepent sense, but because your religious programming tells you to.

Not really. I wouldn't like to disclose why on a public forum, though.

However, I doubt that you are so programed that you would obey an order from a perceived higher power to commit attrocity, but others more far gone have done just that.

True.

I'm afraid that just isn't so.

As the post below yours correctly states, brainwashing is rarely recognized by the brainwashee, and social programming often goes unrecognized as well.

Come on, that's a cop out. So you're saying I'm in denial? I recognize that there are certain social norms and pressures. Sometimes, I choose to break them intentionally (mostly to get a laugh). Most times, I choose to follow such norms, again, because I've seen for myself that behaving in a manner which is considered rude or inconsiderate leads to distrust and hatred. For instance, I choose not to say something borderline offensive in a job interview, because I know full well it could jeapordize my chances of getting the job, but among friends the same comment may well have them in stitches. You might say 'well, that's proof that you're brainwashed and don't realise it', but it really isn't. What it is, is me being realistic and weighing up options rather than being an unthinking reactionary zombie.

We are ALL subject to some social programming, be it religious or non. The subject of this thread is the non religous sort, and it is common (just look at teenagers and the groups they form often even with dress codes and languages), but the religious sort is one of the strongest and most identifiable.

That's true. There are those of us who choose not to conform but to be ourselves. And I'm not talking about fake 'I say I don't conform but I actually conform to another group'. I'm talking about genuine individualism. You seem to be discounting this option, unless I misunderstand you.

This I believe. I believe this is so with most human beings. We are all subject to empathy. This is our default state. The programming of religions and other social forces are sometmes used to enforce our empathic it and sometimes to subdue it.

Fair enough.

It may not be as easy to leave as you may think. Most apostates have a lot of conflicted feelings about their apostacy. There are a lot of psychological issues you may have to deal with if you ever went apostate. There is also the community you now belong to who may react badly and treat you differently (this may or may not be the case in your particular situation but it is common).

In the past, I've considered all that and have come to the conclusion that, should I choose to become apostate, it really wouldn't be too difficult in my case, even the potential community troubles. But crucially, I choose to stay, because I choose to believe in my religion. I've looked at both sides of the equation and come to my own conclusion, which is realistically the best anyone can do when it comes to things like this.

Applying this to teenagers, if they actively see both sides of the coin and decide for themselves which one they prefer, or decide they'd like a bit of both, I don't think that's brainwashing. I think it's an informed decision.

**Musaafirah** · 03-15-2007

Pygoscelis, am jus wondering if you've been brainwashed into thinking everyone else is brainwashed

? Your statement reminded me of an atheist at uni..He seemed to think I was brainwashed coz I had attended an Islamic School, and automatically assumed that I was forced to go..

Seemed to also think that I was brainwashed to dress the way I do..That's jus plain weird..