× Register Login What's New! Contact us
Page 2 of 2 First 1 2
Results 21 to 35 of 35 visibility 6870

Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

  1. #1
    brightness_1
    Limited Member
    Limited Member Array SoldierOfChrist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    1
    Threads
    1
    Reputation
    5
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    5
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah? (OP)


    Is Jesus the Messiah? Why do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    Muslims, answer the above.

  2. #21
    جوري's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Soldier Through It!
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    من ارض الكنانة
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    27,759
    Threads
    1260
    Rep Power
    259
    Rep Ratio
    89
    Likes Ratio
    23

    Re: Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    Report bad ads?

    my pleasure.. wanted to reply to you in a repute but it just won't let me for some reason... I really believe there is a mal-function in the system?:enough!:
    Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    Text without context is pretext
    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him 44845203 1 - Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    chat Quote

  3. Report bad ads?
  4. #22
    جوري's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Soldier Through It!
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    من ارض الكنانة
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    27,759
    Threads
    1260
    Rep Power
    259
    Rep Ratio
    89
    Likes Ratio
    23

    Re: Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    I don't know if this is a dead topic by now but also wanted to share these if you were interested?

    During the times of Biblical history, both the Hebrews and some of the non-Hebrews ceremonially anointed rulers.
    This constituted the confirmation of their official appointment to office.
    ( See Judges 9:8, 15; 1Samuel 9:16; 2 Samuel 19:10) Samuel anointed Saul as king after God had designated Saul as his choice. (1 Samuel 10:1) David was anointed as king on three different occasions: once by Samuel, later by the men of Judah, and finally by all the tribes. (1Sa 16:13; 2Sa 2:4; 5:3) Aaron was anointed after his appointment to the office of high priest. (Le 8:12) Afterward, Aaron and his sons had some of the anointing oil along with the blood of the sacrifices spattered upon their garments, but Aaron was the only one who had the oil poured over his head.—Le 8:30.

    In the Law Jehovah gave to Moses, he prescribed a formula for the anointing oil. It was of a special composition of the choicest ingredients—myrrh, sweet cinnamon, sweet calamus, cassia, and olive oil. (Ex 30:22-25) It was a capital offense for anyone to compound this mixture and to use it for any common or unauthorized purpose. (Ex 30:31-33)
    Things dedicated as sacred were also anointed. Jacob took the stone on which he rested his head when he had an inspired dream, set it up as a pillar, and anointed it, thus marking that place as sacred; and he called the place Bethel, meaning “House of God.” (Ge 28:18, 19)
    A short time later Jehovah acknowledged that this stone had been anointed. (Ge 31:13)
    In the wilderness of Sinai, at Jehovah’s command, Moses anointed the tabernacle and its furnishings, indicating that they were dedicated, holy things.—Ex 30:26-28.
    So I believe it was very common practice at the time. Especially for kings, and prophets...
    Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    Text without context is pretext
    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him 44845203 1 - Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    chat Quote

  5. #23
    Hemoo's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Somewhere in EGYPT
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    327
    Threads
    16
    Rep Power
    115
    Rep Ratio
    28
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    i have some things to share .here are two hadith of the prophet (peace be upon him)

    1-what is mentioned about both the mesiah(jesus) and about the false mesiah(Dajjal) ..

    in the book of authintic Sahih Muslim:-
    Chapter : Account of the Dajjal and his features and what would be along with.

    An-Nawwas b. Sam'an reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) made a mention of the Dajjal one day in the morning. He sometimes described him to be insignificant and sometimes described (his turmoil) as very significant and we felt as if he were in the cluster of the date-palm trees. When we went to him (to the Holy Prophet) in the evening and he read (the signs of fear) in our faces, he said: What is the matter with you? We said: Allah's Messenger, you made a mention of the Dajjal in the morning (sometimes describing him) to be insignificant and sometimes very important, until we began to think as if he were present in some (near) part of the cluster of the date-palm trees. Thereupon he said: I harbour fear in regard to you in so many other things besides the Dajjal. If he comes forth while I am among on, I shall contend with him on your behalf, but if he comes forth while I am not amongst you, a man must contend on his own behalf and Allah would take care of every Muslim on my behalf (and safeguard him against his evil). He (Dajjal) would be a young man with twisted, contracted hair, and a blind eye. I compare him to 'Abd-ul-'Uzza b. Qatan. He who amongst you would survive to see him should recite over him the opening verses of Sura Kahf (xviii.). He would appear on the way between Syria and Iraq and would spread mischief right and left. O servant of Allah! adhere (to the path of Truth). We said: Allah's Messenger, how long would he stay on the earth? He said: For forty days, one day like a year and one day like a month and one day like a week and the rest of the days would be like your days. We said: Allah's Messenger, would one day's prayer suffice for the prayers of day equal to one year? Thereupon he said: No, but you must make an estimate of time (and then observe prayer). We said: Allah's Messenger, how quickly would he walk upon the earth? Thereupon he said: Like cloud driven by the wind. He would come to the people and invite them (to a wrong religion) and they would affirm their faith in him and respond to him. He would then give command to the sky and there would be rainfall upon the earth and it would grow crops. Then in the evening, their posturing animals would come to them with their humps very high and their udders full of milk and their flanks stretched. He would then come to another people and invite them. But they would reject him and he would go away from them and there would be drought for them and nothing would be left with them in the form of wealth. He would then walk through the waste, land and say to it: Bring forth your treasures, and the treasures would come out and collect (themselves) before him like the swarm of bees. He would then call a person brimming with youth and strike him with the sword and cut him into two pieces and (make these pieces lie at a distance which is generally) between the archer and his target. He would then call (that young man) and he will come forward laughing with his face gleaming (with happiness) and it would at this very time that Allah would send Christ, son of Mary, and he will descend at the white minaret in the eastern side of Damascus wearing two garments lightly dyed with saffron and placing his hands on the wings of two Angels. When he would lower his head, there would fall beads of perspiration from his head, and when he would raise it up, beads like pearls would scatter from it. Every non-believer who would smell the odour of his self would die and his breath would reach as far as he would be able to see. He would then search for him (Dajjal) until he would catch hold of him at the gate of Ludd and would kill him. Then a people whom Allah had protected would come to Jesus, son of Mary, and he would wipe their faces and would inform them of their ranks in Paradise and it would be under such conditions that Allah would reveal to Jesus these words: I have brought forth from amongst My servants such people against whom none would be able to fight; you take these people safely to Tur, and then Allah would send Gog and Magog and they would swarm down from every slope. The first of them would pass the lake of Tibering and drink out of it. And when the last of them would pass, he would say: There was once water there. Jesus and his companions would then be besieged here (at Tur, and they would be so much hard pressed) that the head of the ox would be dearer to them than one hundred dinirs and Allah's Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would supplicate Allah, Who would send to them insects (which would attack their necks) and in the morning they would perish like one single person. Allah's Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then come down to the earth and they would not find in the earth as much space as a single span which is not filled with their putrefaction and stench. Allah's Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then again beseech Allah, Who would send birds whose necks would be like those of camels and they would carry them and throw them where God would will. Then Allah would send rain which no house of clay or (the tent of) camels' hairs would keep out and it would wash away the earth until it could appear to be a mirror. Then the earth would be told to bring forth its fruit and restore its blessing and, as a result thereof, there would grow (such a big) pomegranate that a group of persons would be able to eat that, and seek shelter under its skin and milch cow would give so much milk that a whole party would be able to drink it. And the milch camel would give such (a large quantity of) milk that the whole tribe would be able to drink out of that and the milch sheep would give so much milk that the whole family would be able to drink out of that and at that time Allah would send a pleasant wind which would soothe (people) even under their armpits, and would take the life of every Muslim and only the wicked would survive who would commit adultery like asses and the Last Hour would come to them.

    -----------------------------------------

    2-what is mentioned about the False mesiah..

    in authintic Sahih Bukhary:-

    Narated By Ibn Umar : We were talking about Hajjat-ul-Wada, while the Prophet was amongst us. We did not know what Hajjat-ul-Wada' signified. The Prophet praised Allah and then mentioned Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal and described him extensively, saying, "Allah did not send any prophet but that prophet warned his nation of Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal. Noah and the prophets following him warned (their people) of him. He will appear amongst you (O Muhammad's followers), and if it happens that some of his qualities may be hidden from you, but your Lord's State is clear to you and not hidden from you. The Prophet said it thrice. Verily, your Lord is not blind in one eye, while he (i.e. Ad-Dajjal) is blind in the right eye which looks like a grape bulging out (of its cluster). No doubt,! Allah has made your blood and your properties sacred to one another like the sanctity of this day of yours, in this town of yours, in this month of yours." The Prophet added: No doubt! Haven't I conveyed Allah's Message to you? " They replied, "Yes," The Prophet said thrice, "O Allah! Be witness for it."

    and i hope that what i mentioned here is usefull

    salam
    chat Quote

  6. #24
    King David's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Awaiting email confirmation
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    69
    Threads
    2
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    10
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    1) mashiah doest mean annointed as something that is annointed. Mashiah means the one that will be send at end of days he will be the beginning of the world to come ! Also i read annointed by jhon the baptist before do christians have another g*d called jhon the baptist now? He has to be annointed (chosen) by g*d.


    2)
    Messiah : The Criteria
    Judge for yourself:
    Did Jesus fulfill ALL these criteria?

    The Jewish tradition of "The Messiah" has its foundation in numerous biblical references, and understands "The Messiah" to be a human being - without any overtone of deity or divinity - who will bring about certain changes in the world and fulfill certain criteria before he can be acknowledged as "The Messiah".
    messiah criteria1 - Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?First of all, he must be Israelite - "...you may appoint a king over you, whom the L-rd your G-d shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you." (Deuteronomy 17:15)
    He must be a member of the tribe of Judah - "The staff shall not depart from Judah, nor the sceptre from between his feet..." (Genesis 49:10)
    To be a member of the tribe of Judah, the person must have a biological father who is a member of the tribe of Judah.
    He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son - "And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever..." (2 Samuel 7:12 - 13)
    The genealogy of the New Testament is inconsistent. While it gives two accounts of the genealogy of Joseph, it states clearly that he is not the biological father of Jesus. One of the genealogies is through Nathan and not Solomon altogether!
    He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel -"And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." (Isaiah 11:12)
    Are all Jews living in Israel? Have all Jews EVER lived in Israel since the time of Jesus?
    He must rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem - "...and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and my tabernacle shall be with them.." (Ezekiel 37:26 - 27)
    At last check, there is NO Temple in Jerusalem. And worse, it was shortly after Jesus died that the Temple was DESTROYED! Just the opposite of this prophecy!
    He will rule at a time of world-wide peace - "...they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." (Micah 4:3)
    Have you seen a newspaper lately? Are we living in a state of complete world peace? Has there ever been peace since the time of Jesus?

    He will rule at a time when the Jewish people will observe G-d's commandments - "My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My statutes." (Ezekiel 37:24)
    The Torah is the Jewish guide to life, and its commandments are the ones referred to here. Do all Jews observe all the commandments? Christianity, in fact, often discourages observance of the commandments in Torah, in complete opposition to this prophecy.
    He will rule at a time when all people will come to acknowledge and serve one G-d - "And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, says the L-rd" (Isaiah 66:23)
    there are still millions if not billions of people in the world today who adhere to paganistic and polytheistic religions. It is clear that we have not yet seen this period of human history unfold.
    All of these criteria are best stated in the book of Ezekiel Chapter 37 verses 24-28:
    And David my servant shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. they shall also follow My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Yaakov my servant, in which your fathers have dwelt and they shall dwell there, they and their children, and their children's children forever; and my servant David shall be their prince forever. Moreover, I will make a covenant of peace with them, it shall be an everlasting covenant with them, which I will give them; and I will multiply them and I will set my sanctuary in the midst of them forevermore. And my tabernacle shall be with them: and I will be their G-d and they will be my people. Then the nations shall know that I am the L-rd who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary will be in the midst of them forevermore.
    If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be "The Messiah." A careful analysis of these criteria shows us that to date, no one has fulfilled every condition.
    Certainly NOT Jesus.
    chat Quote

  7. Report bad ads?
  8. #25
    جوري's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Soldier Through It!
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    من ارض الكنانة
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    27,759
    Threads
    1260
    Rep Power
    259
    Rep Ratio
    89
    Likes Ratio
    23

    Re: Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    That is your own interpretation of anointed means... but volumes of books speak differently --- as (john the Baptist) who was Yahya (AS)--- the son of Zechariah-- you know the one that spoke against the incestuous relationship between Salome and her uncle-- and as wedding gift she decided it was his head (yaha (John the Baptist') that she wanted on a plate....

    you are however free to believe what you wish otherwise...

    peace!
    Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    Text without context is pretext
    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him 44845203 1 - Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    chat Quote

  9. #26
    King David's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Awaiting email confirmation
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    69
    Threads
    2
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    10
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?



    The Laws Concerning Moshiach

    Chapters 11 & 12 of Hilchos Melachim from the Mishneh Torah of the Rambam


    Maimonides(Rambam) (March 30, 1135 or 1138–December 13, 1204) was a Jewish rabbi, physician, and philosopher in Spain, Morocco and Egypt during the Middle Ages. He was one of the various medieval Jewish philosophers who also influenced the non-Jewish world. Although his copious works on Jewish law and ethics were initially met with opposition during his lifetime, he was posthumously acknowledged to be one of the foremost rabbinical arbiters and philosophers in Jewish history. Today, his works and his views are considered a cornerstone of Orthodox Jewish thought and study.
    Maimonides' full name was Moshe ben Maimon (Hebrew: משה בן מימון) and his Arabic name was أبو عمران موسى بن ميمون بن عبد الله القرطبي الإسرائي 04;ي (Abu Imran Mussa bin Maimun ibn Abdallah al-Qurtubi al-Israili). However, he is most commonly known by his Greek name, Moses Maimonides (Μωυσής Μαϊμονίδης ), which literally means, "Moses, son of Maimon", like his name in Hebrew and Arabic. Several Jewish works call him Maimoni, מימוני. However, more Jewish works refer to him by the Hebrew acronym of his title and name — Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon — calling him the RaMBaM or the Rambam (רמב"ם).
    He was physician of the Grand Vizier Alfadhil and Sultan Saladin of Egypt as well, and considered to be the greatest physician of his time. He composed most of his oeuvre in this last locale, including the Mishneh Torah.
    CHAPTER ELEVEN

    1. In future time, the King Moshiach [1] will arise and renew the Davidic dynasty, restoring it to its initial sovereignty. He will rebuild the [Beis Ha]Mikdash and gather in the dispersed remnant of Israel. Then, in his days, all the statutes will be reinstituted as in former times. We will offer sacrifices and observe the Sabbatical and Jubilee years according to all their particulars set forth in the Torah.
    Whoever does not believe in him, or does not await his coming, denies not only [the statements of] the other prophets, but also [those of] the Torah and of Moshe, our teacher, for the Torah attests to his coming, stating: [Devarim 30:3-5]
    And the Lord your G-d will bring back your captivity and have compassion upon you. He will return and gather you [from among all the nations].... Even if your dispersed ones are in the furthest reaches of the heavens, [from there will G-d gather you in].... G-d will bring you [to the land]....
    These explicit words of the Torah include all that was said [on the subject] by all the prophets.
    There is also a reference [to Moshiach] in the passage concerning Bilaam, who prophesies about the two anointed [kings]: the first anointed [king] [2], David, who saved Israel from her oppressors, and the final anointed [king] who will arise from among his descendants and save Israel [at the End of Days] [3]. The following [quoted] phrases are from that passage: [Bamidbar 24:17-18]
    "I see it, but not now" - This refers to David; "I perceive it, but not in the near future" - This refers to King Moshiach.
    "A star shall go forth from Yaakov" - This refers to David; "and a staff shall arise in Israel" - This refers to King Moshiach.
    "He shall crush all of Moab's princes" - This refers to David, (as it is written [II Shmuel 8:2], "He smote Moab and measured them with a line"); "he shall break down all of Seth's descendants" - This refers to King Moshiach, (about whom it is written [Zechariah 9:10], "He will rule from sea to sea").
    "Edom will be demolished" - This refers to David, (as it is written [Cf. II Shmuel 8:6 and 8:14], "Edom became the servants of David"); "his enemy, Seir, will be destroyed" - This refers to Moshiach, (as it is written [Ovadiah 1:21], "Saviors will ascend Mount Zion [to judge the mountain of Esau....]").
    2. Similarly, in regard to the cities of refuge, it is stated [Devarim 19:8-9], "When G-d will expand your borders... you shall add three more cities." This command has never been fulfilled. [Surely,] G-d did not give this command in vain, [and thus the intent was that it be fulfilled after the coming of Moshiach]. There is no need to cite prooftexts on the concept [of the Moshiach] from the words of the prophets, for all [their] books are filled with it.
    3. One should not entertain the notion that the King Moshiach must work miracles and wonders, bring about new phenomena within the world, resurrect the dead, or perform other similar deeds. This is [definitely] not true.
    [A proof can be brought from the fact that] that Rabbi Akiva, one of the greatest Sages of the Mishnah, was one of the supporters of King Ben Koziva, and would describe him as the King Moshiach. He and all the Sages of his generation considered him to be the King Moshiach until he was killed because of [his] sins. Once he was killed, they realized that he was not [the Moshiach]. The Sages did not ask him for any signs or wonders.
    [Rather,] this is the main thrust of the matter: This Torah, with its statutes and laws, is everlasting. We may neither add to them nor detract from them. [4]
    4. If a king will arise from the House of David who delves deeply into the study of the Torah and, like David his ancestor, observes its mitzvos as prescribed by the Written Law and the Oral Law; if he will compel all of Israel to walk in [the way of the Torah] and repair the breaches [in its observance]; and if he will fight the wars of G-d; - we may, with assurance, consider him Moshiach.
    If he succeeds in the above, builds the [Beis Ha]Mikdash on its site, and gathers in the dispersed remnant of Israel, he is definitely the Moshiach. [5]
    He will then perfect the entire world, [motivating all the nations] to serve G-d together, as it is written [Zephaniah, 3:9], "I will make the peoples pure of speech so that they will all call upon the Name of G-d and serve Him with one purpose."
    CHAPTER TWELVE

    1. One should not entertain the notion that in the Era of Moshiach any element of the natural order will be nullified, or that there will be any innovation in the work of creation. Rather, the world will continue according to its pattern.
    Although Yeshayahu [Yeshayahu 11:6] states, "The wolf will dwell with the lamb, and the leopard will lie down with the young goat," these [words] are an allegory and a riddle. They mean that Israel will dwell securely together with the wicked gentiles who are likened to wolves and leopards, as in the verse [Yirmeyahu 5:6], "A wolf of the deserts despoils them, a leopard watches over their cities." [In this era, all nations] will return to the true faith and no longer plunder or destroy. Instead, at peace with Israel, they will eat that which is permitted, as it is written [Yeshayahu 11:7], "The lion shall eat straw like the ox."
    Similarly, other prophecies of this nature concerning Moshiach are analogies. In the Era of the King Moshiach, everyone will realize what was implied by these metaphors and allusions.
    2. Our Sages taught: [Berachos 34b] "There will be no difference between the current age and the Era of Moshiach except [our emancipation from] subjugation to the [gentile] kingdoms."
    The simple meaning of the words of the prophets appears to imply that the war of Gog and Magog [Yechezkal ch. 38] will take place at the beginning of the Messianic age. Before the war of Gog and Magog, a prophet will arise to rectify Israel's conduct and prepare their hearts [for the Redemption], as it is written: [Malachi 3:23] "Behold, I am sending you Eliyah(u) [6] [before the advent of the great and awesome Day of G-d]."
    He will not come [in order] to declare the pure, impure, nor to declare the impure, pure; nor [will he come in order] to disqualify the lineage of those presumed to be of flawless descent, nor to validate lineage which is presumed to be blemished. Rather, [he will come in order] to establish peace in the world; as [the above prophecy] continues [Malachi 3:24], "He will bring back the hearts of the fathers to the children."
    Some of the Sages say that Eliyahu will appear [immediately] before the coming of Moshiach.
    All these and similar matters cannot be [clearly] known by man until they occur, for they are undefined in the words of the prophets. Even the Sages have no established tradition regarding these matters, beyond what is implied by the verses; hence there is a divergence of opinion among them.
    In any case, neither the sequence of these events nor their precise details are among the fundamental principles of the faith. One should not occupy himself at length with the aggadot and midrashim that deal with these and similar matters, nor should he deem them of prime importance, for they bring one to neither the awe nor the love [of G-d].
    Similarly, one should not try to calculate the appointed time [for the coming of Moshiach]. Our Sages declared: [Sanhedrin 97b] "May the spirits of those who attempt to calculate the final time [of Mashiach's coming] expire!" Rather, one should await [his coming] and believe in the general conception of the matter, as we have explained.
    3. During the Era of the King Moshiach, once his kingdom has been established and all of Israel has gathered around him, the entire [nation's] line of descent will be established on the basis of his words, through the prophetic spirit which will rest upon him. As it is written [Loc. cit., v. 3], "He shall sit as a refiner and purifier."
    He will purify the lineage of the Levites first, stating that "This one is a priest of defined lineage" and "This one is a Levite of defined lineage." Those whose lineage he does not recognize will be relegated to the status of Israelites. This is implied by the following verse: [Ezra 2:63] "The governor said to them, '[They shall not eat of the most holy things] until a priest arises [who will wear] the Urim and Tumim.'" From this verse one can infer that the genealogy of those presumed to be of unquestioned [priestly and levitical] lineage will be traced by means of the prophetic spirit, and those found to be of such lineage will be made known.
    He will define the lineage of the Israelites according to their tribe alone; i.e., he will make known each person's tribal origin, stating that "This one is from this tribe" and "This one is from another tribe." However, concerning a person who is presumed to be of unblemished lineage, he will not state that "He is illegitimate," or "He is of slave lineage," for the law rules that once a family has become intermingled [within the entire Jewish people], they may remain intermingled.
    4. The Sages and prophets did not yearn for the Messianic Era in order that [the Jewish people] rule over the entire world, nor in order that they have dominion over the gentiles, nor that they be exalted by them, nor in order that they eat, drink and celebrate. Rather, their aspiration was that [the Jewish people] be free Ito involve themselves] in Torah and its wisdom, without anyone to oppress or disturb them, and thus be found worthy of life in the World to Come, as we explained in Hilchos Teshuvah.
    5. In that Era there will be neither famine nor war, neither envy nor competition, for good things will flow in abundance and all the delights will be as freely available as dust. The occupation of the entire world will be solely to know G-d. The Jews will therefore be great sages and know the hidden matters, and will attain an understanding of their Creator to the [full] extent of human potential; as it is written [Yeshayahu 11:9], "For the world will be filled with the knowledge of G-d as the waters cover the ocean bed."
    FOOTNOTES

    1. In the original Hebrew, HaMelech HaMoshiach (lit., "the anointed king"); i.e., the Messianic King.]
    2. In the original Hebrew, the word here translated "anointed [king]" is simply HaMoshiach (lit. "the anointed one"); i.e., the Messiah. It is used interchangeably with the earlier phrase.]
    3. At this point, before being censored by medieval Christian authorities, the Rambam's original text continued: "...and save Israel from the hand's of Esav's descendants. This and two other such deletions have been copied verbatim in these footnotes from the celebrated Yemenite manuscript in the hands of Chacham Yosef Kapach of Jerusalem. (See footnotes 4 and 5, below.)]
    4. At this point, the uncensored original text continued as follows: "Whoever adds to [the mitzvoth] or detracts from them, or misinterprets the the Torah, implying that the mitzvos are not intended to be understood literally, is surely a wicked imposter and a heretic."
    5. The whole of the following passage was deleted from most of the editions published since the Venice edition of 1574. "If he did not succeed to this degree or he was killed, he surely is not [the redeemer] promised by the Torah. [Rather,] he should be considered as all the other proper and legitimate kings of the Davidic dynasty who died. G-d only caused him to arise in order to test the multitude. As it is written [Daniel 11:35], "Some of the wise men will stumble, to purge, to refine, and to clarify, until the appointed time, for it is yet to come."
      "Jesus of Nazareth who aspired to be the Moshiach and was executed by the court was also spoken of in Daniel's prophecies [Daniel 11:14], "The renegades among your people shall exalt themselves in an attempt to fulfill the vision, but they shall stumble."
      "Can there be a greater stumbling block than [Christianity]? All the prophets spoke of Moshiach as the redeemer of Israel and their savior, who would gather their dispersed ones and strengthen their [observance of] the mitzvos. In contrast [the founder of Christianity] caused the Jews to be slain by the sword, their remnants to be scattered and humiliated, the Torah to be altered, and the majority of the world to err and serve a god other than the L-rd."
      "Nevertheless, the intent of the Creator of the world is not within the power of man to comprehend, for [to paraphrase Yeshayahu 55:8] His ways are not our ways, nor are His thoughts our thoughts. [Ultimately,] all the deeds of Jesus of Nazareth and that Ishmaelite [i.e. Mohammed] who arose after him will only serve to pave the way for the coming of Moshiach and for the improvement of the entire world, [motivating the nations] to serve G-d together, as it is written [Zephaniah 3:9], "I will make the peoples pure of speech so that they will all call upon the Name of G-d and serve Him with one purpose."
      "How will this come about? The entire world has already become filled with talk of [the supposed] Messiah, as well as of the Torah and the mitzvos. These matters have been spread among many spiritually insensitive nations, who discuss these matters as well as the mitzvos of the Torah. Some of them [i.e. the Christians] say: "These commandments were true, but are not in force in the present age; they are not applicable for all time." Others [i.e. the Moslems] say: "Implied in the commandments are hidden concepts that cannot be understood simply; the Messiah has already come and revealed them."
      "When the true Messiah king will arise and prove successful, his [position becoming] exalted and uplifted, they will all return and realize that their ancestors endowed them with a false heritage; their prophets and ancestors cause them to err."
    6. The name of the prophet is occasionally spelled, as in this verse, without the final letter vav.
    chat Quote

  10. #27
    جوري's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Soldier Through It!
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    من ارض الكنانة
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    27,759
    Threads
    1260
    Rep Power
    259
    Rep Ratio
    89
    Likes Ratio
    23

    Re: Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    I don't put much stock on Maimondes... here is someone who was rejected from Spain and ended up in Muslim lands only to write scrolls cussing Muslims -- which was fine-- and he was so allowed... but to me he isn't above Jesus (PBUH)-- if Jesus didn't fulfil what you or he were/are awaiting-- it is your prerogative to practice and believe what you will... But Jesus was the anointed one... so it says in the Quran which you sometimes quote as a source.......

    peace!
    Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    Text without context is pretext
    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him 44845203 1 - Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    chat Quote

  11. #28
    King David's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Awaiting email confirmation
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    69
    Threads
    2
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    10
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    Some Quotes from the Torah



    You will cross the Jordan and settle the land which G-d is giving you as an inheritance. He will give you rest from all your enemies which surround you, and you will dwell secure. Then there shall be a place which G-d shall choose to cause His name to dwell therein...

    There you shall seek Him...

    - Deuteronomy 12:10-11; 12:5

    "You will return to the L-rd your G-d...

    And the L-rd your G-d shall return with your returnees... and He will return and gather you from all the nations amongst whom the L-rd your G-d has scattered you..."

    "If your outcasts shall be at the ends of the heavens, from there will the L-rd your G-d gather you, from there He will take you... [He] will bring you into the Land which your fathers have possessed and you will possess it, and he will do you good and multiply you, more than your fathers...

    [He] will circumcise your heart (remove its coarse covering, make it receptive to G-dliness) ... to love the L-rd your G-d with all your heart and with all your soul...

    G-d will again rejoice over you... for you shall hearken to the voice of G-d... to keep His commandments and statues which are written in this book of the Torah...

    - Deuteronomy 30:2-10

    It shall come to pass in the last days, that the mount of the house of G-d shall be established atop the mountains, and be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall stream to it.

    And many nations will go, and say: "Come, let us go up to the mountain of G-d, to the house of the G-d of Jacob; and he (Moshiach) will teach us of His ways and we will walk in His paths." For from Zion shall go forth Torah, and the word of G-d from Jerusalem.

    And he (Moshiach) will judge between nations, and decide among the peoples.

    And they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword upon nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

    - Isaiah 2:2-4

    There shall come forth a shoot out of the stem of Yishai, a branch shall grow from his roots. The spirit of G-d shall rest upon him: the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and the fear of G-d... Righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faith the girdle of his reins.

    The wolf will dwell with the lamb, and the leopard will lie down with the kid... the cow and the bear will graze... the lion will eat straw as the ox... the suckling child will play on the cobra's hole...

    For the earth shall be filed with the knowledge of G-d, as the waters cover the sea.

    - Isaiah 11:1-9

    No longer shall your Master be cloaked; your eyes will behold your Master.

    The glory of G-d will be revealed. And all flesh will see that the mouth of G-d has spoken.

    - Isaiah 30:20; 40:5

    I have given you a national covenant: to be a light unto the nations.

    - Isaiah 42:6

    I will set my Torah in their innards and write it upon their hearts...

    - Jeremiah 31:32

    I will take you from the nations, gather you from the countries and bring you to your land... From all your contaminations, from all your idols, I will cleanse you.

    I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will place within you. I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

    I will place My spirit within you.

    - Ezekiel 36:24-27

    I will make a covenant of peace with them, an everlasting covenant... and I shall set My dwelling in their midst for evermore.

    - Ezekiel 37:26

    I will no longer hide my face from them.

    - Ezekiel 39:29

    I shall pour forth my spirit upon all flesh.

    - Joel 3:1

    Behold, days are coming, says G-d, when I will send a famine upon the earth; not a famine for bread, nor a thirst for water, but to hear the word of G-d.

    - Amos 8:11

    For then I shall turn to the nations a pure tongue, that all shall call upon the name of G-d to serve Him as one.

    - Zephaniah 3:9

    I shall remove evil from the world.

    - Zechariah 13:2

    And G-d shall be king over the entire world; on that day, G-d will be one, and His name, one.

    - Zechariah 14:9

    Behold, I am sending you Elijah the prophet, before the great and awesome day of G-d will come. He will restore the hearts of fathers to their children, and the hearts of children to their fathers.

    - Malachi 3:23-24

    I am sleeping but my heart is awake.

    - Song of Songs 5:2

    (This refers to the state of galut. -Midrash Rabbah)

    The voice of my beloved, behold he has come, leaping over the mountains, skipping over the hills... Behold, he is standing behind our wall, watching through the windows, peering through the cracks... Arise my loved one, my fair one, and go forth! For behold, the winter is over, the rain is over and gone. The blossoms have appeared on earth, the time of singing has arrived, and the voice of the guide is heard in the land!"

    - Song of Songs 2:8-12

    From the Supernal One cannot emerge both evil and good.

    Lamentations 3:38

    (Thus the "evil" we encounter is but the concealment of good. -Chassidic teaching)
    chat Quote

  12. #29
    King David's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Awaiting email confirmation
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    69
    Threads
    2
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    10
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    Mashiach: The Messiah

    I believe with perfect faith in the coming of the mashiach, and though he may tarry, still I await him every day.
    --a popular paraphrase of Principle 12 of Maimonides' 13 Principles of Faith
    The Messianic Idea in Torah

    Belief in the eventual coming of the mashiach is a basic and fundamental part of traditional Judaism. It is part of Maimonides' 13 Principles of Faith, the minimum requirements of Jewish belief, commonly recited daily as brought above. In the Shemoneh Esrei prayer, recited three times daily, we pray for all of the elements of the coming of the mashiach: ingathering of the exiles, restoration of the Torah-based system of justice, an end to the apostates and heretics, reward for the righteous, rebuilding of Jerusalem, restoration of the kingdom of the descendants of King David, and restoration of Temple service.
    Many modern scholars suggest that the messianic concept was introduced far after the beginning of the Jewish people at Mount Sinai, during the age of the prophets. They note that the messianic concept is not clearly mentioned anywhere in the Written Torah (the first five books of the Bible).
    However, traditional Judaism maintains that the messianic idea has always been a part of the Torah. The mashiach is not mentioned explicitly in the Torah, because the Torah was written in terms that all the people could then understand, and the abstract concept of a distant future reward was then beyond the comprehension of many of the people. However, the Torah contains several references to "the Latter Days" (acharit ha-yamim), which is considered the time of the mashiach; thus, the concept of mashiach was known in the most ancient times.
    The term "mashiach" literally means the anointed one, and refers to the ancient practice of anointing kings with oil when they took the throne. The mashiach is the one who will be anointed as king in the Latter Days. He will be the very real king of a very real Torah government in the Land of Israel: not some "spiritual" or "symbolic" king in Israel, as some have mistakenly thought (especially Christians), and certainly not some gifted Jewish spiritual leader outside the Land of Israel, as others have mistakenly thought (including thousands of Jews in our generation as well as the followers of earlier false Jewish "mashiachs" in generations past). It should be mentioned that while it is not forbidden to foolishly believe that one is the mashiach despite that he is not, it is certainly not the sign of a good grasp of the Torah to be mislead as to his nature and role, described more fully below.
    The word "mashiach" does not mean "savior". The notion of an innocent, semi-divine (let alone fully divine) human being who will sacrifice himself to save us from the consequences of our own sins is a purely Christian concept that has no basis in normal Jewish thought, though it seems to have been invented or adopted by Jewish apostates in the early Church. Unfortunately, this Christian concept has become so deeply ingrained in the English word "messiah" that this English word should probably no longer be used to refer to the Jewish concept. Thus, we prefer to use the less familiar word "mashiach" throughout this page.
    The Mashiach

    The mashiach will be a great political leader descended by a pure male line from King David (Jeremiah 23,5). The mashiach is often referred to as "mashiach ben David" (The Mashiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11,2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military figure who will win battles for Israel, freeing the Jews of foreign domination and establishing a Torah-based kingdom in Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33,15). But above all, he will be a fully normal human being, not a god, demi-god, or other supernatural being.
    It has been said that in every generation, a person is born with the potential to be the mashiach. If the time is right for the messianic age within that person's lifetime, then that person will be the mashiach. But if that person dies before he completes the mission of the mashiach, then that person is not the mashiach; thus, even if one could say that some historial Jewish figure was worthy of being the mashiach, since he did not reestablish a Torah kingdom in Israel, he could not possibly have been the real mashiach we wait for.
    What Will the Mashiach Do?

    Before the time of the mashiach, there will be war and great suffering (Ezekiel 38,16). Then the mashiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing all Jews outside Israel back to Israel, and restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11,11-12; Jeremiah 23,8; 30,3; Hosea 3,4-5). He will establish a Torah government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and Gentiles (Isaiah 2,2-4; 11,10; 42,1). He will rebuild the Temple and reestablish its worship (Jeremiah 33,18). He will restore the religious court system of Israel, if it had not already been reestablished before him, and establish the Torah as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33,15).
    The Messianic Age

    The messianic age will be characterized by the peaceful co-existence of all people (Isaiah 2,4). Hatred, intolerance, and war will cease to exist. Some authorities suggest that the laws of nature will change, so that predatory beasts will no longer seek prey and agriculture will bring forth supernatural abundance (Isaiah 11,6-9); others like Maimonides, however, say that these statements are merely an allegory for peace and prosperity. What is agreed on by all is a very optimistic picture of what real people can be like in this real world, the like of which has never been seen before.
    All of the Jewish people will return from their exile among the nations to their home in Israel (Isaiah 11,11-12; Jeremiah 23,8; 30,3; Hosea 3,4-5), and the law of the Jubilee as well as the rest of the special agricultural laws in the Torah will be reinstated.
    In the messianic age, the whole world will recognize YHWH, the LORD God of Israel, as the only true God, and the Torah will be seen as the only true religion (Isaiah 2,3; 11,10; Micah 4,2-3; Zechariah 14,9). There will be no more murder, robbery, competition, or jealousy.
    chat Quote

  13. Report bad ads?
  14. #30
    King David's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Awaiting email confirmation
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    69
    Threads
    2
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    10
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    Genesis Chapter 49
    10. The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor the student of the law from between his feet, until Shiloh comes, and to him will be a gathering of peoples.
    The scepter shall not depart from Judah from David and thereafter. nor the student of the law from between his feet Students. These are the princes of the land of Israel. — [From Sanh. 5a]
    nor the student of the law from between his feet Students. These are the princes of the land of Israel. — [From Sanh. 5a] until Shiloh comes [This refers to] the King Messiah, to whom the kingdom belongs (ùÑÆìå&#201 , and so did Onkelos render it: [until the Messiah comes, to whom the kingdom belongs]. According to the Midrash Aggadah, ["Shiloh" is a combination of] ùÑÇé ìåÉ, a gift to him, as it is said:"they will bring a gift to him who is to be feared" (Ps. 76:12). - [From Gen. Rabbah ed. Theodore-Albeck p. 1210 ]
    Another translation is:
    10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until Shiloh comes; and unto him shall the obedience of the peoples be.
    Last edited by King David; 03-29-2007 at 06:34 PM.
    chat Quote

  15. #31
    جوري's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Soldier Through It!
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    من ارض الكنانة
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    27,759
    Threads
    1260
    Rep Power
    259
    Rep Ratio
    89
    Likes Ratio
    23

    Re: Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    Yup...he has come he has risen... he shall come back again--- you are welcome to await his second return-- but volumes of cuts and pastes won't do it for me I have already stated my reasons above... Maimondes --isn't above Jesus to me and he certainly isn't above what is written in the Quran...
    and I can honestly respect your beliefs... but a large cut and paste won't convince me otherwise of what I know to be true...

    peace!
    Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    Text without context is pretext
    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him 44845203 1 - Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    chat Quote

  16. #32
    King David's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Awaiting email confirmation
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    69
    Threads
    2
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    10
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    Koran 17:104: Then We said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in the land. When the promise of the hereafter comes to be fulfilled, We shall assemble you all together.'
    chat Quote

  17. #33
    King David's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Awaiting email confirmation
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    69
    Threads
    2
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    10
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia View Post
    Yup...he has come he has risen... he shall come back again--- you are welcome to await his second return-- but volumes of cuts and pastes won't do it for me I have already stated my reasons above... Maimondes --isn't above Jesus to me and he certainly isn't above what is written in the Quran...
    and I can honestly respect your beliefs... but a large cut and paste won't convince me otherwise of what I know to be true...

    peace!
    Those are studies wirth verses from the tanach of course maimonides isnt above the torah nor the Qur'an
    chat Quote

  18. #34
    جوري's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Soldier Through It!
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    من ارض الكنانة
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    27,759
    Threads
    1260
    Rep Power
    259
    Rep Ratio
    89
    Likes Ratio
    23

    Re: Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    You should really read the beginning of that chapter as well!

    peace!
    Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    Text without context is pretext
    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him 44845203 1 - Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    chat Quote

  19. Report bad ads?
  20. #35
    NoName55's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Account Disabled
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    2,143
    Threads
    72
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    69
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    format_quote Originally Posted by King David View Post
    Koran 17:104: Then We said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in the land. When the promise of the hereafter comes to be fulfilled, We shall assemble you all together.'
    17:104. and we said to the Children of Israel after him: "Dwell In the land, then, when the final and the Last Promise comes near [the Day of Resurrection or the descent of Christ ['Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) on the earth]. we shall bring You altogether as mixed crowd (gathered out of various nations).[Tafsir Al-Qurtubî, Vol. 10, Page 338]

    Wa-salaam Alaikum

    did you not see these words (in bold)? BTW does "and" not mean that it is a continuation of a previous verse?

    and we said thereafter to the Children of Israel, "Dwell securely In the land ": but when the second of the warnings (first one when Christ was born, 2nd one when He returns) comes to pass, we shall gather you together In a mingled crowd.
    وَقُلْنَا مِنْ بَعْدِهِ لِبَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ اسْكُنُوا الأرْضَ فَإِذَا جَاءَ وَعْدُ الآخِرَةِ جِئْنَا بِكُمْ لَفِيفًا

    Last edited by NoName55; 03-30-2007 at 04:31 PM.
    chat Quote


  21. Hide
Page 2 of 2 First 1 2
Hey there! Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah? Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Muslims, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Why do Muslims not believe Jesus was crucified?
    By Crystal in forum Clarifications about Islam
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 10-06-2011, 02:22 AM
  2. Do Muslims Believe Jesus Was Not Really Crucified?
    By B_M in forum Comparative religion
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 10-18-2010, 11:00 PM
  3. Do Muslims believe Jesus as The Son of God ?
    By Raymond in forum Clarifications about Islam
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 03-12-2010, 05:56 PM
  4. Jesus married? And was he a Messiah?
    By London2006 in forum Miscellaneous
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-15-2006, 02:33 AM
  5. Koran Defends the Jews that they didnt kill Jesus the Messiah
    By north_malaysian in forum Comparative religion
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 05-28-2006, 08:49 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
create