How much Christians know about Bible? What about Muslims?

format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi

No it doesn't....

It states that Moses would be as a god to Pharaoh.

Whatever you may decide.

format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc

It is quite amazing to see you say "You are confusing Christians with Catholics". How ironic for a Protestant (I suppose) to deny a Catholic being a Christian. Don't you consider Jesus to be Son of God and at the same time fully God? Then clearly Mary must be the Mother of God as the Catholics claim and you must be confused.

You don't see that the same logic that you use against the Catholics, that Muslims use the same logic against Christians in general. Again how ironic.

Indeed. I have only one word for them:

Matthew 7:3
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

format_quote Originally Posted by Sunnih

Well it seems that catholics seem to be doomed although they too believe in Jesus and accept him. How amazing.

No doubt they think you are equally 'doomed'. I guess it comes down to whether or not God actually has this 'mercy' that is ascribed to Him or not. 'Doomed' seems just a little excessive to me as a punishment for taking the wrong side in minor theological difference of opinion.

format_quote Originally Posted by Sunnih

Well it seems that catholics seem to be doomed although they too believe in Jesus and accept him. How amazing.

Yes and you are the person who knows who is going to be doomed and who not.

format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

While that may seem strange to an outsider, I sort of see some of the same stuff in Isalm. Certain groups within Islam have their special emphases, there are not just Sunni and Shi'a, there are 4 different schools of jurispridence thought within Isalm; there are Muslims who consider music haraam and say that all true Muslims know that music is haraam and there are Muslims who consider themselves true Muslims who say that this is not the teaching of Islam but of just a few "enthusiats" (that was the word shared with me a couple of times). And there are other differences of interpretation or emphasis that I find from time to time and curiously I find that people sort of naturally gravitate to other Muslims who agree with htem. So while there are not denominations in Islam like in Christianity, there are still differences that have developed and, at least in my observation, Islam is not the same every place one goes -- though on the whole I think that Islam is probably a little more homogenous than Christianity.

You are missrepresenting the facts (although I think because of the lack of information you might have on this topic). This is because the four schools that you mention, those represent what Islam is and never will you find within them anything in which they differ in regards to creed. The differences are in jurisprudence not in the fundamentals of creed. While the protestants, catholics and other than them in Christianity, differ in creed. This is the core of the religion. If they were to differ in jurisprudence then ok, you might say that they are the same but not when they differ on the fundamentals of their creed.

format_quote Originally Posted by alapiana1

OK, hang on bro, no offense intended to you. I believe there are many Catholics that are heaven bound, but I see things a little different than you in the sense that I am not proud of my denominational tag. It is not religious affiliation that saves me it is relationship with God. Those denominational tags will fall off in heaven and burn off in hell. So being Catholic or Protestant is not what this is about. My family is stanch Catholics. They believe in praying to Mary and for the dead and to the saints. I just don’t receive any teachings in doctrine that can’t be backed up Scripturally from the Bible. We are on the wrong forum for this discussion. But if you would like to discuss it further, you can e-mail me through the forum’s back office. The Lord bless

Yes. It is not convenient to show to "these muslims" how divided you are.

format_quote Originally Posted by alapiana1

I believe that God is a Spirit; in fact, the Bible says that He is and that those who worship Him must do it in spirit and in truth. I, however, have no problem believing that God can inhabit a human person or be in more that more place at a single moment in time. We do not limit what God can do. We do not look at God as if He is limited to the confines of time and space, as we know it. I have no problem believing that God's word could be made flesh, nor to I have a problem seeing God as all wise, merciful and Holy. Since He is Holy and a Spirit, I have no problem as seeing Him as the Holy Spirit and yet the same one true God. To try to understand the essence of God in terms of human dimensions only leads to horrible heresies of which Muslims think us guilty of. I look at Jesus who was the only prophet (Son of Man) to be sinless and conceived of a virgin (Son of Mary). That alone should be a sign and I hint as to the true nature of Jesus Christ. Since He did not have an earthly father, it only confirms that through the prophets and even Jesus Himself the Bible speaks absolute truth has His Father being God. It is written in the Scriptures, "He that has the Son has life; he that has not the Son, as not life, but the wrath of God abides on him." I do not want the wrath of God abiding on me. I would have to be spiritually dead to believe that He is not who He says. The Bible is the inerrant word of God to the true believers and follows of Christ there are no mistakes in it pertaining to who Jesus really is. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no knows the Father except the son and whom He reveals Him to. Blessed are those who see this.

You forget the example of Adam. If this is your standard then Adam has more right to be worshiped then Jesus.

format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

I don't understand how this works.

The Qur'an teaches as true things that other religions teach as false and vice versa. So, Muslims who only read the Qur'an would believe things of other religions that those religions do not actually believe for themselves.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point?

What he means is the true books, in reference to the book of Jesus, he means the Injeel not the new testament.

Anyway, let us see this principle you raised. Does not the new testament contradict the old testament in multiple places and verdicts? You know this more than well and there is no need for me to present verses. Would you say that the principle stands for the New Testament?

I say no. It neither stands for the New Testament, nor for the Qur'an.

format_quote Originally Posted by skhalid

The Quran is a mixture of what is found in the Bible and other holy books, yes it is not always the same things said, some things relate to others and some contrast and are completely different.
What I meant is that the Quran teaches about other religions as well but in the way which shows agreement as well as disagreement within certain aspects.
I hope that helps!

It would have been more clear to say: Clarification and abrogation. This also aplies to previous laws in relation to what came before it, in general.

format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble

No doubt they think you are equally 'doomed'. I guess it comes down to whether or not God actually has this 'mercy' that is ascribed to Him or not. 'Doomed' seems just a little excessive to me as a punishment for taking the wrong side in minor theological difference of opinion.

Both me and you are "doomed" in their view. Anyway:the difference is not minor but major. As for the Mercy of God, yes it is one of His attributes but so is justice and other than it. So judgement is not based only on mercy.

format_quote Originally Posted by Sunnih

You are missrepresenting the facts (although I think because of the lack of information you might have on this topic). This is because the four schools that you mention, those represent what Islam is and never will you find within them anything in which they differ in regards to creed. The differences are in jurisprudence not in the fundamentals of creed. While the protestants, catholics and other than them in Christianity, differ in creed. This is the core of the religion. If they were to differ in jurisprudence then ok, you might say that they are the same but not when they differ on the fundamentals of their creed.

Muslims have as the core of what it means to be Muslim a desire to follow the will of God, and yet as I mentioned above there are Muslims (I will point them out to you if need be) that disagree with other Muslims as to whether or not it is haraam to listen to music. This sounds like a difference of creed to me, it is about what is and is not within the will of Allah for a person to do and be submissive to him.

The differences in theology among Protestants, Orthodox and Catholic are not so large as to disagree about what it takes to be saved. We all recognize that salvation is in Christ Jesus, his death and resurrection and our faith placed in him, but ultimately it is about his grace which comes to us in faith and to which we then respond in thankfulness with good works done to bring glory to Christ's name. I dare say you will be hard pressed to find a Christian that will disagree with that immediate preceeding statement. They may want to improve upon it, but they won't summarily reject it out of hand as Muslims will with one another over views as to whether something as simple as music is or is not consistent with a life of Islam.

format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85

Yes and you are the person who knows who is going to be doomed and who not.

We will see about that.

format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

Muslims have as the core of what it means to be Muslim a desire to follow the will of God, and yet as I mentioned above there are Muslims (I will point them out to you if need be) that disagree with other Muslims as to whether or not it is haraam to listen to music. This sounds like a difference of creed to me, it is about what is and is not within the will of Allah for a person to do and be submissive to him.

The differences in theology among Protestants, Orthodox and Catholic are not so large as to disagree about what it takes to be saved. We all recognize that salvation is in Christ Jesus, his death and resurrection and our faith placed in him, but ultimately it is about his grace which comes to us in faith and to which we then respond in thankfulness with good works done to bring glory to Christ's name. I dare say you will be hard pressed to find a Christian that will disagree with that immediate preceeding statement. They may want to improve upon it, but they won't summarily reject it out of hand as Muslims will with one another over views as to whether something as simple as music is or is not consistent with a life of Islam.

No. You are missinformed about what is Islam, the creed and the fiqh issues. You also missunderstand the submission in islamic terms. I advice you to read on it if indeed it is the correct information you are after.

format_quote Originally Posted by Sunnih

No. You are missinformed about what is Islam, the creed and the fiqh issues. You also missunderstand the submission in islamic terms. I advice you to read on it if indeed it is the correct information you are after.

Taking your advice, I will seek out further information and clarification from others. I pray that you will also understand why I say that it seems you may similarly misunderstand the differences between what appear as conflicting Christian theologies.

format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

Taking your advice, I will seek out further information and clarification from others. I pray that you will also understand why I say that it seems you may similarly misunderstand the differences between what appear as conflicting Christian theologies.

I am not disputing that we dissagre about the Christian theologies and you see it the way you see it. Fair enough. But what I am saying is that the differences in Christian theology are in fundamentals while those of the four schools in Islam are not in fundamentals. Yes you might say that the differences between sunnihs and shias are fundamental. To this I would say yes they are. Do you see the point I am making?

Thanks.

format_quote Originally Posted by Sunnih

I am not disputing that we dissagre about the Christian theologies and you see it the way you see it. Fair enough. But what I am saying is that the differences in Christian theology are in fundamentals while those of the four schools in Islam are not in fundamentals. Yes you might say that the differences between sunnihs and shias are fundamental. To this I would say yes they are. Do you see the point I am making?

Thanks.

Yeah, I got that the last time, and even the time before.

format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

Muslims have as the core of what it means to be Muslim a desire to follow the will of God, and yet as I mentioned above there are Muslims (I will point them out to you if need be) that disagree with other Muslims as to whether or not it is haraam to listen to music. This sounds like a difference of creed to me, it is about what is and is not within the will of Allah for a person to do and be submissive to him.

The differences in theology among Protestants, Orthodox and Catholic are not so large as to disagree about what it takes to be saved. We all recognize that salvation is in Christ Jesus, his death and resurrection and our faith placed in him, but ultimately it is about his grace which comes to us in faith and to which we then respond in thankfulness with good works done to bring glory to Christ's name. I dare say you will be hard pressed to find a Christian that will disagree with that immediate preceeding statement. They may want to improve upon it, but they won't summarily reject it out of hand as Muslims will with one another over views as to whether something as simple as music is or is not consistent with a life of Islam.

Excuse me, but it seems that you are nit picking to magnify differences between the 4 Sunni schools of thought and painting with a large brush to minimize doctrinal differences between Catholic, Protestant etc. To my knowledge no Muslim following the Hanafi shool of thought will say that one following the Shafi one is going to Hell. As in all religions there are those who are more conservative in interpreation of what is right and wrong on relatively minor issues as you say about music. Additional ones are shaking hands with opposite sex, having pictures in the home, men wearing a beard, etc. There are Muslims that take a more liberal approach, but as far as I know the conservative ones are inclined to say that they are sinning rather than being a dis-believer.

Issues such as music are not part of the creed of Islam. I have 2 small books, "The Muslim Creed" and "Islamic Creed" that do not mention the minor points such as music.

format_quote Originally Posted by skhalid

The Quran is a combination of all the holy books in the main religions..therefore I would say muslims who read it know a lot about their religion as well as others!!!!

That may be true, but it doesn't contain the most important message that is in the books of the Bible. In fact, it contradicts the Bible.