1. What criteria do you use (in christianity) to define if a message is a true message from God ?
2.and also if you say that Jesus was crucified to pay with his blood the sins of the people, then what happened to the people that died before Jesus came? Do they go to hell or heaven?
3. and also did the prophets that are mentioned in Bible teach trinity? (i'm refering to the prophets before Jesus was born).
1. What criteria do you use (in christianity) to define if a message is a true message from God ?
Muslims believe the Koran is a message from God. Muslims then make a presumption that Jesus was meant to deliever a message too. Christains never make that claim.
After Christians see Muslims claiming the Koran is a message from God, thye need to compete and at this point they too claim the Bible is a message from God.
but you say the Bible is the word of God, the true book, so tell me what are the criteria that you define if a book/message is true? that's what I asked. and what about the other two questions?
but you say the Bible is the word of God, the true book, so tell me what are the criteria that you define if a book/message is true? that's what I asked. and what about the other two questions?
Joe made a good point. Your questions are..hymm...very Muslim style not that it is wrong, but it shows some presumption about God, message (have you noticed that this is word much more often used by Muslims than Christians?), Books that are typical to Islam and rather strange to Christian mind.
That makes answering you a bit difficult.
Muslims seems to come to faith through Book. We through Jesus. I think you have to first believe in Him before you can accept Bible as "holy". There are no tests. Bible is based on Tradition. It is Jewish Scriptures and writings of first Christians passed through ages until now. That is all.
how do we know if message is true? Whose message? Jesus? i read Sermon on the Mount and it "move my soul" (i do know it sounds kitschy )
And watch out with term "word of God" when speaking about Books. We also use it but - many of us - in different meaning. We also call Jesus - Word of God. The most typical Christian answer I could give you is: for us Jesus is the message, the Word of God and Truth. Because we felt once called by Him, we also accepted Bible. Probably before that, we thought that it might not be that corrupted as it seems . But in the end - it is just faith.
2.and also if you say that Jesus was crucified to pay with his blood the sins of the people, then what happened to the people that died before Jesus came? Do they go to hell or heaven?
we see it as a kind of "cosmic" act that penetrates both time (in both directions so to say..) and space. He did it for those who where before Him and came after.
3. and also did the prophets that are mentioned in Bible teach trinity? (i'm refering to the prophets before Jesus was born)
Not exactly. We believe that God gradually reveled Himself (and Jesus is the final revelation). We think that we can find first signs of it in Old Testament. (Jews obviously disagree here). I sure there was thread about it. Maybe you should look for it?
The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned.
well i'm not going back to the first point cuz i guess there is no answer about it as sister said above, but just to the last 2 ones.
it does not make sense for people before jesus to be saved, bc basiclly the lived without knowing anything about saving, if we just stop and think at this one, it's like for a period of time people lived without any idea how do they go to heaven, they just did things and somehow later someone comes to save them, it's just ..... i dunno
So what did these prophets teach people about God? How did they describe God , or what did they say about God? Or basiclly if they didn;t teach about trinity, then what did they teach?
Muslims believe the Koran is a message from God. Muslims then make a presumption that Jesus was meant to deliever a message too. Christains never make that claim.
After Christians see Muslims claiming the Koran is a message from God, thye need to compete and at this point they too claim the Bible is a message from God.
To define Christianity, say "Love" 1,000 times.
-
If one reads the Bible then one comes to his own understanding that Jesus had a message.
And if the Bible is not a mesage from G-d then what is it?
The path is long but I hope we meet,
After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.
A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.
They would have taught what ever you were taught that they were taught.
We can't be taught the same thing, those prophets taught people to worship one God , or they taught the 3in1 God , they couldn't first teach one God, and then come up with trinity.
Trinity (for Christians) IS ONE God. Prophets worshiped one God, first Christians also, those who came after them also. We still worship ONE God.
but what is exactly the meaning of that word "ONE" that we attach to God.
In Christianity, the doctrine of the Trinity states that God is one being who exists, simultaneously and eternally, as a mutual indwelling of three persons: the Father, the Son (incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth), and the Holy Spirit.
taken from wikipedia.
You say that you worship one God, but if you 'unpack' that God, it becomes 3 (The father, holy spirit, the son), and you can't be a father and a son at the same time if you try to argue that the same (one) God appears in 3 states so if you have 3 people that are friends, you can merge them and call them "friendship", and yes you can say there is one friendship, but unpacking that friendship you get 3 friends. But in the other way you say Jesus is son of God, which if that God is one then Jesus is the son of GOD (The father, holy spirit, the son).
One God = (Father, Holy spirit, the Son)
God = One God
Jesus = Son of God
it's like a set within a subset and a subset within a set
put together the equation and you will get what I mean
and did those prophets ever mentioned that God consists of (father, son and holy spirit)? or did they talk about that God has a son?
It is a series of separate books brought together as one book.
When was Genesis written?
When did Moses lead the Isralies?
When was the gospel according to Mathew written?
Were they all written within 10 years of each other? 100 years? 1,000 years?
Well this doesnt mean it isnt the message of G-d. That is what we were getting to, who says that if a book is made up of a series of books then it is not the message of G-d??
The path is long but I hope we meet,
After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.
A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.
al habeshi,
why do u write G-d instead of God? Curious.
The more you give, the more you get.
The more you laugh, the less you fret.
The more you do unselfishly,
The more you live abundantly.
The more of everything you share,
The more you'll always have to spare.
And if the Bible is not a mesage from G-d then what is it?
Easiest question I have ever seen on this board.
The Bible is the record of the self-revelation of God to God's people.
btw, I noticed that though others are attempting to respond, that Duskiness was the only Christian providing answers on here. Forgive me if I don't get into at this time, but I will try to get back in here later.
Last edited by Grace Seeker; 02-26-2007 at 11:25 PM.
Well this self revelation record is something that was to be delivered, so its a message.
Is what you posted a "message"? There are all different types of messages. It really is more the telling of a story -- a generations long story that we are actually participants in. It is not the presentation of a bunch of facts to be learned, as if learning them accomplished anything. It is more like a love letter, invited us to be in an eternal an monogamous relationship with God.
well we're not talking about types of messages like (SMS message, IM, Email), lol :P
defintion of message = Message in its most general meaning is the object of communication. Depending on the context, the term may apply to both the information contents and its actual presentation.
so there is no point of arguing that Jesus didn't come with a message, because he did, from whatever side we look (christian or islamic).
and guys be honest and tell me something:
do you think it's more logical to believe
in one absolute GOD, which has no partners, is allpowerfull or
in a GOD that is in 3 states, and has a son of his own creation? or the whole trinity concept?
and if a person would be raised in a isolated place without teaching him anything about religions and then asked which one do u think makes more sense to you? which one do you think he would choose?
again, please be honest.
please don't take anything offending.
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not that it is wrong, but it shows some presumption about God, message (have you noticed that this is word much more often used by Muslims than Christians?), Books that are typical to Islam and rather strange to Christian mind.
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