Maybe you could clearly outline the conditions, the only condition I have seen outlined was this;
Two replies,
1. You set a bench mark of 1 Gospel and 1 Book of Paul's, I have read, and prayed over much more than that, I have tried to understand context and tried to look at the greek whenever possible, have spoken to a pastor who ha s spent 6 years in learning theology, all this whilst I sincerly believed the Bible to be true. Nevertheless I know nothing compared to others and so I only ask and put forth ideas, if you search the forum I always encourage members to correct me if I am wrong.
2. Your condition is kind of off set, for in order for me to point out any parts of the Bible which are not in harmony, I would not have had to read the whole Bible as such, rather I would one have to read the part which I bring forth.
No I didn't say you have to read the whole Bible. Just some of it but in context. Because
All the Muslims I have met so far on forums or friends, try to point out contradictions and errors in the Bible and they haven't even tried to understand Jesus message.
So I cautioned that, this is my experience not neccessarily the case this time.
Trying to save time.
And after a whole bunch of discussion, it comes down to they haven't even read a full gospel before, or whole book of the Bible. They often quote from Ahmad Dheet books and video's of Dr Zakir or whatever. With one quote as proof against another quote.
It leads to long convo.'s about silly things. Which can be avoided if you just read a couple of books fully.
Moving forth,
You asked,
With regards to this then this logic is only special pleading, Aadam was born without mother or father, and God according to your book, breathed into Aadam, Aadam by that had DNA of Divine origin, does this mean he is divine no.
Well I think he was. But he was created divine and became a decaying, human when he was cast from Eden. Jesus has always been, he was not created. That's the difference.
Furthermore, you are under the assumption that it was Diving DNA, for God can create by saying be and it is, a spirit can be sent by God without the spirit being divine, this is my belief.
This is where my answer came in, someone born in a special way does not make him special, someone having a miracle happen to them does not make them special. If a person is by miracle cured of HIV who is an athiest, and a person who is a Christian dies of it does this mean the athiest is better in God's eyes? Similarly the Birth of Jesus is not an indication of his status.
Well the statement was actually "What other prophet was born in this special way ? And you still believe that he is just another prophet".
So you don't think it significant that every prophet was born normally from a man and woman. And then the Messiah is born from a virgin by the Holy Spirit of God.
This definately signifies something different to me and anyone else if you compare his birth honestly.
This makes me wonder if you yourself know the history of Biblical compilation, if you told me the above and there was knowledge that the authors had no ideas of the Old Testament then I'd agree it'd be pretty amazing, but the authorsof the Gospel had the Old Testament there, they could make references as they wanted.
That's right but the NT authors knew how to interpret it so that it made sense.
They quoted fulfilled prophecies from the OT that mirrored Jesus's life. Only Jesus has fulfilled the many prophecies that the Jews were waiting for at the time of his life on earth.
And he will fulfill the rest when he returns.
But some Jews still followed Jesus, some of the apostles were Jewish.
Furthermore, to show you one point, let me quote something interesting and you can reply for me;
Matthew 2:15
where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: "Out of Egypt I called my son."
This is a passage in which matthew uses a line out of the Old Testament as prophecy and places it upon the life of Jesus as being fufilled, let us turn back to the book where he got it from;
Hosea 11:1
"When Israel was a child, I loved him,
and out of Egypt I called my son.
Amazing in my eyes, a blatant misquote!! Talk about cross references.
Well let's look at the context shall we:
Hosea 11 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
Hosea 11
God's Love for Israel
1 "When Israel was a child, I loved him,
and out of Egypt I called my son.
2 But the more I [a] called Israel,
the further they went from me. [b]
They sacrificed to the Baals
and they burned incense to images.
This is God speaking about
his SON and Israel's rebellion. It is a direct mention of God having a Son in the OT (Judaism).
The prophecy states very clearly that GOD has a Son and he will call him out of Egypt.
Let's see if Jesus fulfilled this prophecy since we already know that Christians believe Jesus is God' Son.
Matthew 2:
19But when Herod died, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, 20saying, "Rise, take the child and his mother and go to the land of Israel, for those who sought the child's life are dead." 21And he rose and took the child and his mother and went to the land of Israel.
So this is a misquote how ?
Now are you going to dismiss the fact that the OT agree's with Christian belief ?
First thing, interesting way to dismiss this as copiest errors, you say they were notes written in by scholars about the doctrine, let us see the addition and think;
Anyone familiar with the NT knows that this is how the Gospels are there is no evidence to show that this is only a side note, rather the evidence shows that this is a conitnuation of the story! Let us be honest if it was only side notes why would it still be in the Bible today.
Ooops, I shouldn't have said that. I was thinking of something else that was a copiest erorr, my mistake. That Mark extension is obviously added later, maybe because the collection of Jesus's stories were ongoing as more witnesses were questioned.
Furthermore, it seems that you like to speak about cross reference, am assuming you have cross referenced the Gospels with each other, so how do you explain the evolution of the person of Jesus within those Gospels? Am sure you know what I mean after all you have set the conditions down so I expect you to know better.
Well I explain them as each person wrote down about Jesus according to their own experience and testimonies of witnesses. If 4 people all write about an event that took place they will never be 100% correct. Ever read different articles in different newspapers of the same event. They always mention things differently in different lights, ommit certain details and add some more to the story as they hear it compared to others.
What about the abbrogations in the Quran. Did God change his mind, or if it was slowly abbrogated for other teachings. How confusing does the message become to the un-enlightened ?
This concept is very dangerous.
What about the Hadith traditions to Quran contradictions. Which is much more suspect than different personal accounts of the Bible, which are just small details.
Since it commands people to behead people who leave the religion.
Behead people who insult Muhammad. He did this himself according to some traditions (Sahih).
Question: Why would the followers of Muhammad even write such things ? If they knew Muhammad and the Quran well enough to discount such violent commands. i.e. Muhammad couldn't have possibly killed a woman for insulting him. Muhammad's tradition writer: That's just absurd, let's not include that. Good idea.
Your accounts of events are not exactly perfect either. So I wouldn't bother about this issue.
I know you say the Quran is perfect and the hadith's are man's doing. But isn't the fact that some nut out there may read that and follow his example ?
That's what's really different about Islam and Christianty. Islam says all prophets were perfect because they were examples to their respective people.
Christianity says that no man should be an example because all men sin. Only Jesus was an example to follow in conduct because he didn't sin.
I think the Son Of God (Jesus) is a much better example to follow than a man (Muhammad).
Hope to hear from you soon,
Eesa.
Quote
Hide
Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
Bookmarks