Are morals derived from religion/God??

**Philosopher** · 05-08-2007

If so, I have 2 questions:

1.) How come there are different religions with different moral codes?
2.) How come atheists are moral beings?

Thanks

**Pygoscelis** · 09-13-2007

So as you can see, having Quran/God be someone who you fear from doing wrong is perfectly fine. Hell, its definatly better than relying on you sticking to the law - not saying its not possible - but its less effective for a fact than one who truly believes in God.

You do have a point here. Fear of punishment does indeed push us to obey the rules of the societies we live in. And hell-fear may add self monitoring to that obedience. And sometimes that obedience may help to prevent horrible actions where people fail to think morally. To the theist Big Brother truly is watching.

But please try not to confuse obedience with morality. Obedience is doing what you are told. Morality is your sense of right and wrong. It is dangerous to confuse the two because they can, do, and should sometimes conflict. Religions and other ideologies can cloud people to these conflicts, and that has too often been a road to attrocity.

Also I think the statistics bare out that religion more often rationalizes immoral behaviour than acts as a safeguard against it. Just look at prison populations.

If religion kept people in line those incarcerated for murder would consist of mostly atheists. Atheists SHOULD be overrepresented in comparison with the general population. But that isn't the case. They are actually underrepresented. Why?

Are atheists simply more moral than theists and don't need religion to keep them from killing people? Or is the "religion keeps people from murder" theory simply false?

**IbnAbdulHakim** · 09-13-2007

^ whats there to stop you from going against your morals? Dont tell me desires never go against morals, the amount of times ive heard of rapes and people stealing from ladies aged over 60 etc. Its not enough to know "right or wrong" sometimes, sometimes we need the extra enforcement or encouragement !

**Muslim Woman** · 09-13-2007

Salaam/peace;

Originally Posted by ranma1/2

....Were you an immoral being before you read the quran?
If not how did you aquire your morals?
Did your family teach them to you?

i answered to similar questions earlier .... ok , let me try again.

Of course , my parents taught me to be good , not to lie , steal etc , etc. But what if my parents are not around & Satan tempts me to do some evil things ?

It's because of fear of God Almighty , i will try best not to commit sin. I know , i can keep something secret from parents but not from God.

During Summer while fasting , Muslims don't eat or drink ...why ? We can eat / drink secretly ...no human being will scold us but God won't be pleased with us . So does not how thirsty we are , we even fasting kids won't drink a drop of water .

I love my parents but earlier when i was not that conscius about thier rights over me , sometimes i misbehaved with them

...may Allah forgive me .

Now as I m getting more conscious about religion / life hereafter , i try my best to be kind to parent , to listen to them , be good to them . No one in this earth is going to give me any prize for it ....i expect rewards from God.

So , it's the religion who is teaching me the best examples

I talked to an athiest in other forum ....he saw no problem in having extra mariatal affairs as long as kids don't find out . He even found no problem with having affair with step mom ( ref : Bold & beautiful )

Do i need to explain why extra marital affairs , live together with step mom are harmful for society ? Thoose who don't have shame & don't have fear of God can do any shamleless acts .

So , from the beginning , God sent Prophets & instructions to human being .

Believers follow the instructions & expect rewards on the Last Day. Let's disbelievers enjoy the temporary world.

verses we all need for this life & the hereafter

A little enjoyment and they shall have a painful punishment.

[16.117]

And on the day when those who disbelieve shall be brought before the fire: You did away with your good things in your life of the world and you enjoyed them for a while,

so today you shall be rewarded with the punishment of abasement because you were unjustly proud in the land and because you transgressed.

[46.20]

**Pygoscelis** · 09-13-2007

Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim

^ whats there to stop you from going against your morals? Dont tell me desires never go against morals, the amount of times ive heard of rapes and people stealing from ladies aged over 60 etc. Its not enough to know "right or wrong" sometimes, sometimes we need the extra enforcement or encouragement !

Indeed. As I noted above, sometimes threats and bribes keep people from behaving in destructive ways. But please keep in mind that just as often threats and bribes can LEAD people to behave in destructive ways.

Obedience is not morality. And blind obedience is dangerous.

**IbnAbdulHakim** · 09-13-2007

Originally Posted by Pygoscelis

And blind obedience is dangerous.

what an excellent saying, i agree 100%. We should understand who we obey and for what reason

, thats exactly what i do

but there are certain occasions, where you would obey although uncertain, these are extremely rare though and i only bring this up due to the event when ismael was to be sacrificed as a test of ibrahims loyalty.

Sometimes when we're so firm in belief it makes it easy to understand that God is just, so obeying will incline our logic to believing only good will come out of it!

**Md Mashud** · 09-13-2007

Originally Posted by Pygoscelis

Indeed. As I noted above, sometimes threats and bribes keep people from behaving in destructive ways. But please keep in mind that just as often threats and bribes can LEAD people to behave in destructive ways.

Obedience is not morality. And blind obedience is dangerous.

Religion may seem blind obedience to you - because you don't understand it - but really, I cannot be convinced that God cannot exist or this religion is fake. I mean, if someone did put somthing convincing against either - sure why not go for it? I am open minded, I am not stubborn about issue, it is fact nothing has been given which I can deem credible enough... This is a reason why so many muslims stay muslim, they are convinced it is correct, it is not blind following. No law is forcing us to follow it. I would be able to live a "free" life in terms of accountability, where I can be selfish and not worry, as with many other stuff I could have done, or not have done. Being a Muslim, you strive on Earth, to make better the afterlife. Its not all HAVE FUN - But you know, I could never leave Islam - because that truth you learnt in it, I can never imagine how one could leave. Ive seen alot, Ive read alot, from anti-religious people etc, none of them convince me even 1%. Maybe if there was somthing to convince me, it was fake - it is possible I could be long gone. But if you do enough study in Islam, you realise, it really is the perfect thing and nothing can really change that - people have been trying and failing. All people can do is make lies and just blatant wrong statements when putting down Islam, you can see it miles away. When no one can move my stance on Islam, it is clear it must be the way.

The only way I can see myself leaving it is if I wish to d4mn myself to hell. No alternative has yet, seemed to even match its perfection, pretty sure nothing will. Some people think people follow Islam because of the happy factor beleiving that a god exist etc - I can tell you now as a Muslim, that is just an excuse by atheists, I follow it because it is the truth and if it leads to happiness so be it, but never did I base my following in that this is the happy alternative. If it was just for me to be "happy", I would'nt be strict on the rules, If i truly didn't believe in a God existing to account for me.