Is the ONE GOD of Islam the same as the GOD of the Bible?

format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85

Brother and according to Quaran who is responsible for creating christianity if not Allah? It was Allah who took away muslim Isa from a cross and made people believe that He died there. Christians believed that after His death, He ressurected, so Allah is responsible for creating the biggest religion in the world, and the biggest rival for islam. Where is logic in this ? Why would Allah made a faith that keeps stealing "true believers" from islam during the ages?

Allaah says in the Qur'an:

Truly, the religion with Allah is Islam. Those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) did not differ except, out of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah, then surely, Allah is Swift in calling to account.

[Qur'an 3: 19]

The religion of Prophet Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon him) was Islaam. His disciples were Muslims because they believed in Allaah, and His Messenger, Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon him), and they submitted to Allaah.

The honor of Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon him) is great in Islaam, because he never even died, never got killed, nor was he crucified, rather Allaah raised him upto Himself, and Allaah will send him back after a temporary time to support the believers and fight the Anti-Christ.



About christianity being the biggest religion, you have to question why? Is it because in christianity, all you have to do is 'believe' and then you're saved? Maybe that's why people think that it's the easy way out? So they choose to follow it?

If we are to compare the logic of Islaam, even using Biblical texts - we can say that the Bible supports Islaam in much more ways than the Christian arguments even do! That is because the religion in the sight of Allaah is Islaam, and it is the truth because it is from the Lord of the Worlds.


About people leaving Islaam, Allaah has said:

O you who believe! whoever from among you turns back from his religion, then Allah will bring a people, He shall love them and they shall love Him.. [Qur'an 5: 54]

Allaah guides the sincere people into His religion, those who aren't sincere go astray to their own loss. Preferring this temporary life over the hereafter. And without a doubt, the hereafter is the best place and longer lasting, if you only knew.




Peace.

Thankyou, so you agree that there have been many folktales throughout history after Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon him) right?


Because if that's the case, then you need to question which bible you're using. Why do i say this? Because the christians themselves differ on which Bible is the truth right? One Catholic version, and One Protestant version? And then many different versions or editions after that. True?

format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron

I mean that Muhammad found out about some fables and stories that came out after Jesus' death and Muhammad used it in writing Quaran. Thats why in Quaran there are so many places and people from the Bible, simply because muslim prophet Muhammad was in contact with christians for some time and he heard about it and then used it in Quaran.

First of all, he was an illiterate man. Allaah says in the Qur'an:

"Say: 'O mankind! ! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided." (Qur'an 7:158)

2nd, there were no copies of the Bible in the Arabian Peninsula at that time.


3rd, if you're going to use the argument of Waraqa ibn Nawfal, that argument is totally weak. Since if we look at his history, he was a truth seeker all his life. So if he was searching for the truth - why would he accept Islaam and believe if he himself was a 'teacher'? If he was sincerely seeking the truth all his life?



Regarding them claims;

Mariam the mother of ‘Isa is called a sister of Aaron, and also the daughter of Aaron’s father ‘Imran (Hebr. Amram). Clearly Muhammad has confused Mary (Hebr. Miriam) with Miriam of the Exodus. The two lived more than a thousand years apart!

It turns out that Christians in Najran during the time of the Prophet(P) raised a similar objection and it was answered by the Prophet(P). In Sahih Muslim, the hadith related by Mughirah ibn Shu`bah [5326] says:

When I came to Najran, they (the Christians of Najran) asked me: You read "O sister of Harun" (i.e. Maryam) in the Qur'an, whereas Moses was born much before Jesus. When I came back to Allah's Messenger(P) I asked him about that, whereupon he said: The (people of the old age) used to give names (to their persons) after the names of Apostle and pious persons who had gone before them.

This claim of contradiction is apparently mistaken because it disregards both the Arabic idiom and the context of the verse. In Arabic the word akhun or ukhtun (Underlined with Red colour in the images) carries two meanings.

1. Blood brother or sister and
2. Brotherhood/sisterhood in clan and faith.

The above verse has used the word ukhtun in the second sense. This is not unusual as the Qur'an uses the same idiomatic expression in several earlier verses. In chapter 11 verse 78, Prophet Lot refers to the women folk of his community as my daughters.

And his people came rushing towards him, and they had been long in the habit of practising abominations. He said: "O my people! Here are my daughters: they are purer for you (if ye marry)! Now fear Allah, and cover me not with shame about my guests! Is there not among you a single right-minded man?" [Qur'an 11:78]



http://www.theholybook.org/index.php.../view/9233/12/

In the Bible Haman is the minister of Ahasuerus in Media and Persia (The Book of Esther 3:1-2). Yet the Qur’an places him over a thousand years earlier, as a minister of Pharoah in Egypt.

Aaron, your names Aaron right? If i call you Aaron, does that mean i'm making a historical mistake since that was the name of Prophet Moses's brother?

The same way Haman can be the name of another man also.

The Qur’an has a Samaritan making the golden calf, which was worshipped by the Israelites in the wilderness (Ta Ha 20:85) during the Exodus. In fact it was Aaron (Exodus 34:1-6). The Samaritans did not exist until several centuries later. They were descendants of the northern Israelites centuries after the Exodus.

We as muslims don't disrespect our Prophets and claim that they commited blasphemy. Since that is blasphemy in of itself.

Jesus’ titles of Messiah and Word of God, which the Qur’an uses, find no explanation in the Qur’an. Yet in the Bible, from which they are taken, these titles are well integrated in a whole theological system.

The Messih in the arabic language i think comes from the meaning to 'wipe', and Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon him) would wipe the eyes of some people, and they would be able to see again, all by the will of Allaah through His Messenger, Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon him.)

[وَكَلِمَتُهُ أَلْقَـهَا إِلَى مَرْيَمَ وَرُوحٌ مِّنْهُ]

(And His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit from [created by] Him means, He said,
[كُنَّ]


(Be) and he was. Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ahmad bin Sinan Al-Wasiti said that he heard Shadh bin Yahya saying about Allah's statement,


[وَكَلِمَتُهُ أَلْقَـهَا إِلَى مَرْيَمَ وَرُوحٌ مِّنْهُ]

(and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit from [created by] Him "`Isa was not the word. Rather, `Isa came to existence because of the word.'' Al-Bukhari recorded that `Ubadah bin As-Samit said that the Prophet said,


«مَنْ شَهِدَ أَنْ لَا إِلهَ إِلَّا اللهُ، وَحْدَهُ لَا شَرِيكَ لَهُ، وَأَنَّ مُحَمَّدًا عَبْدُهُ وَرَسُولُهُ، وَأَنَّ عِيسَى عَبْدُاللهِ وَرَسُولُهُ وَكَلِمَتُهُ أَلْقَاهَا إِلى مَرْيَمَ وَرُوحٌ مِنْهُ، وَأَنَّ الْجَنَّةَ حَقٌّ، وَالنَّارَ حَقٌّ، أَدْخَلَهُ اللهُ الْجَنَّةَ عَلَى مَا كَانَ مِنَ الْعَمَل»

(If anyone testifies that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah Alone Who has no partners, and that Muhammad is His servant and Messenger, and that `Isa is Allah's servant and Messenger and His Word which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit created by Him, and that Paradise is true and Hell is true, then Allah will admit him into Paradise with the deeds which he performed.) In another narration, the Prophet said,


«مِنْ أَبْوَابِ الْجَنَّةِ الثَّمَانِيَّةِ يَدْخُلُ مِنْ أَيِّهَا شَاء»

(...through any of the eight doors of Paradise he wishes.) Muslim also recorded it.

http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=4&tid=12973

The Biblical narratives are rich with historical details, many confirmed by archaeology. They cover more than a thousand years, and reveal a long process of technological and cultural development. In contrast the Qur’an’s sacred history is devoid of archaeological support. Its fragmentary and disjointed stories offer no authentic reflection of historical cultures. No place name from ancient Israel is mentioned, not even Jerusalem. Many of the supposed historical events reported in the Qur’an have no independent verification.

The Qur'an discusses locations and the required information when it is relevant.


I.e.

They followed what the evil ones gave out (falsely) against the power of Solomon: the blasphemers Were, not Solomon, but the evil ones, teaching men Magic, and such things as came down at Babylon to the angels Harut and Marut. [Qur'an 2: 102]

In that situation it's required to understand where that trial was happening, since it has an important historical context to it. When it's not relevant, it's not required, yet when it is - it's mentioned.


I've already mentioned to you about the Jerusalem issue,

Glory to (Allah) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque (Masjid Al Aqsaa' in Jerusalem), whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).

[Qur'an 17: 1]

For example we are told that Abraham and Ishmael built the Kaaba in Mecca (Al-Baqarah 2:127), but this is totally without support. The Biblical account, more than a thousand years older, does not place Abraham anywhere near Arabia.

That's the bibles fault, not ours.

format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85

Yes yes so many versions of Bible we have, hundreds or thousands maybe right? catholic Bible, orthodox Bible, Lutheran Bible, Calvin Bible, american Bible, polish Bible. etc tec, but isnt this strange that all catholics, orthodox, protestants in all over the world, Africa, USA Europe China and Sri Lanka, believe in the core and fundamental christian belief that Jesus Christ, Son of God, was sent on earth to die for our sins and then He ressurected.

That's not true at all. Loads of christians differ on who Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon him) is. Some say he is god, some say he is the 'son' of god. Others say that he died, others say he never died.


All the christians have different beliefs, and the majority have their own personal beliefs which may even contradict the version or book they have.




Peace.

Was the Qur'an compiled from previously revealed scriptures?

1- Had the Qur’an been contrived from old scriptures, Muhammad's adversaries would not have ignored the matter and remained silent. They would undoubtedly have seized the opportunity to accuse him to that effect . All their allegations were unfounded and lacked proof. The Qur’an itself has already mentioned these allegations and their refutation.

2- The Qur’an includes many laws, instructions and commands which did not exist in the previous scriptures. Furthermore the Qur’an contains narratives with detailed accounts of previous generations in addition to prophecies which were fulfilled. An example of this was the final outcome of the conflict between the Romans and Persians, the events of which were unknown to Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, his people and the followers of Judaism and Christianity.

3- The Qur’an urged people to acquire knowledge and to respect the human mind and intellect. Accordingly, based on Islam's new teachings and rulings, the Muslims were able, in a very short time, to establish a civilization which replaced the preceding civilization and flourished for many centuries. Had the Qur’an been compiled from the previous divine religions why then did these religions not include the aforementioned precept and teachings and did not play the same role as Islam?

4- The Qur’an is a book the style of which is consistent and eloquent. Had it been compiled from other scriptures it would have been incoherent, contradictory and inconsistent due to the alleged various sources. Moreover, the Qur’an, always addresses one’s sense and reasoning and does not include fables and myths. It relies upon evidence and facts and demands the same of its adversaries: Allah’s says: “Say: Bring your proof, if ye are truthful!” (An-Naml:64) This approach is considered a completely new approach and does not exist in any previous scripture.


In addition to the previous authentic refutation, one may add:

1- The Qur’an related facts totally unknown to the People of the Books. For example it narrated the story of Zakariah and the birth of the Virgin Mary and his guardianship of her. The Qur’an also devoted whole chapter to the Virgin Mary, which is unparalleled in the New Testament. Where could the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, possibly have acquired these facts?

2- It is related in Exodus that it was Pharaoh’s daughter who adopted Moses as a baby, whereas the Qur’an states that Pharaoh’s wife found him and adopted him. We also read Exodus that “Aaron fashioned the gold and moulded the calf …” that was worshipped by the Jews, whereas the Qur’an states that Samiri was the culprit and that Aaron was innocent.

3- If the Qur’an had been derived from the Holy Scriptures of the Jews and Christians, why did Islam reject the principle of the Trinity which is a fundamental belief in Christianity? Why did Islam also reject the belief in the crucifixion of Christ, redemption, inherited sin and the divinity of Christ?

4- The Qur’an presents the Prophets of Allah as ideals of morality and virtue, whereas the Old Testament states that some of them committed sins, and this is incompatible with the veneration accorded to them by Islam.

5- Religious observances commanded in the Qur’an such as praying, fasting, obligatory charity and the pilgrimage to Makkah in addition to the instructions and teachings stated as to the manner of how each observance is to be performed are matters that are unparalleled and are not mentioned in any other religion. The five daily prayers are performed in a certain manner at appointed times with the recital of certain specific verses of the Qur’an. Fasting entails total abstinence from food drink and physical desire from dawn till sunset. Charity varies in quantity and the way that is given. The Pilgrimage entails circling around the Ka`ba, being assembled in great gathering at Mount Arafat, going to and forth seven times between As-Safaa and Al-Marwa, and stoning Satan. These are all religious observances, which are specifically related to Islam. Which religion could possibly have been the source of these religious observances?”


Based on the above, it has become crystal clear to all that Islam, in general, and the Qur'an, in particular, is something great and unique. Needless to say that Islam has made lawful to people things that were previously made totally prohibited. In Sura Al-An`aam, we read: “


Say: I find not in that which is revealed unto me aught prohibited to an eater that he eat thereof, except it be carrion, or blood poured forth, or swineflesh for that verily is foul or the abomination which was immolated to the name of other than Allah. But whoso is compelled (thereto), neither craving nor transgressing, (for him) lo ! your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful. Unto those who are Jews We forbade every animal with claws. And of the oxen and the sheep forbade We unto them the fat thereof save that upon the backs or the entrails, or that which is mixed with the bone. That We awarded them for their rebellion. And lot We verily are Truthful.”(Al-An`aam:145-146)


Almighty Allah makes it clear to the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, and all Muslims that the Glorious Qur'an is totally different from all previous laws; it is unique in its nature. Allah says:


“ And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires away from the truth which hath come unto thee. For each We have appointed a divine law and a traced out way.” (Al-Ma’idah:48)


Here, we would like to highlight the point that, for example, the Jewish legislation ordered for the killing of a person as a way of accepting his repentance. Accordingly, when a person commited a sin and later wanted to repent, he would be subject to killing as a sign of showing genuine repentance and for his repentance to be accepted. This is mentioned in the Qur’an in the verse that reads: “And when Moses said unto his people:


"O my people! Ye have wronged yourselves by your choosing of the calf (for worship) so turn in penitence to your Creator, and kill (the guilty) yourselves. That will be best for you with your Creator and He will relent toward you. Lo! He is the Relenting, the Merciful.” (Al-Baqarah:54)


In the law imbedded in the Qur'an the case is totally different, for winning Allah's forgiveness needs nothing more than showing repentance and regret for the previous sin; i.e. in order to be forgiven for any sin, a person is asked to show repentance to Allah and make a covenant never to transgress the limits again or to commit any sin. How unique and great the Qur'an is! It can never be claimed that it is fabricated or derived from other laws. It is unique in nature, in rules and in the guidance which it showers on the whole human race."


Some stories (which are also found in the Bible) are related in the Glorious Qur’aan for the benefit of Muslims, to enable them to learn from experience of earlier generations. They also contains specific rulings that are designed to guide the Muslims and their society from falling into that traps that caught their predecessors.


http://www.load-islam.com/artical_de...Misconceptions

format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi

Would you mind giving an example of these Christians who do not believe Christ is divine?

Jehovas witnesses?

format_quote Originally Posted by - Qatada -

That's not true at all. Loads of christians differ on who Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon him) is. Some say he is god, some say he is the 'son' of god. Others say that he died, others say he never died.




All the christians have different beliefs, and the majority have their own personal beliefs which may even contradict the version or book they have.




Peace.

All the christians have different beliefs, and the majority have their own personal beliefs which may even contradict the version or book they have.

The Above Can Go For Muslims Also




That's not true at all. Loads of christians differ on who Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon him) is. Some say he is god, some say he is the 'son' of god. Others say that he died, others say he never died.

The Above Is True

format_quote Originally Posted by Balthasar

All the christians have different beliefs, and the majority have their own personal beliefs which may even contradict the version or book they have.

The Above Can Go For Muslims Also

Nope it's not. Since we ALL believe and agree upon One Book atleast - the Qur'an. And we have our religion preserved for us, and the praise is for Allaah.

God is almighty so He can do whatever He wants. He can be in three parts , being one part in the same time.

so what you are saying is that God can also lie?? cuz if you say he can do whatever he wants then he can lie??? God can also cheat, and say to u on day of judgement , "you worshiped a lamb", bc God "can cheat", depending on your saying that God can do whatever he wants?? then how godly is for God, to lie to cheat to be in three forms???

Dr zakir naik explained it very well.
God will never intend to do things which are ungodly. God will never intend to lie, cheat, or become a human or become in three forms. bc the moment God does those things , they he doesn't seem to be God anymore. God only intends things which are godly (ie. be just, not lie.....etc etc).

Erm, when exactly do you speak to Christians? If you speak to them in the streets or on the board or when they teach you then of course the only think they will mainly speak to you about is the Trinity. It's a da'wah thing for them.

I've lived with a christian pastor, I've gone to church, I've stayed with christians, I've met them in the uni.

Do they worship The creator? If you want me to show you they do then I will, if they do then we estblish they worship Allah, but also they worship others besides Him.

They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

There you go, they worship the Creator, they also worship the created things besides the creator and say that the created and the creator are one. I agree, but none the less they worship the Creator AND the created. Simple.

You keep talking about the trinity and this and that, but do you agree that part of the trinity includes The Creator? I.e. that they direct some of their worship to God, The Creator, if yes, then that is it, they worship Allah but they worship others WITH Allah.

bro, with all respect, you don't get the theme of the topic.
We are not talking about the powers, we are talking here about the God itself. as I have learned christians focus mainly on Jesus. Everything goes with Jesus. he created everything, he will judge them , he forgave their sins etc. and u don't need to be a rocket scientist to realize that they take mainly Jesus as God, while we believe Jesus was a prophet , may peace be upon him. Cuz we both believe God is the creator, but who is that creator? what are this God's virtues that we are discussing. and obviously the God christians believe don't have the same virtues as the God we believe.

For me it is interesting. Jesus Christ seems to be the issue which is important for so many people, not only christians. Muslims say that Jesus was a muslim. Communists say that Jesus was a revolutionist. Even buddhists claim that for them Christ is something important. We all people of the world, Jews, muslims, christians, hindus, measure time according to Christ's born. For muslims Jesus will be the one who appears at the end of the world to judge people. Why Jesus, not the last muslim prophet Muhammad?

just bc Microsoft Windows is used everywhere it doesn't mean it's the best operating system. It doesn't serve as independent proof. and we muslims don't measure time based on christian calendar, we measure time based on Hijri calendar. But bc we use christian calendar that's a different thing, cuz I'm forced to use it. But we have our own calendar. and yes jesus will come, to judge, and support muslims and to implement the law that Muhammed saws came, the person which you don't see as important

Brother and according to Quaran who is responsible for creating christianity if not Allah? It was Allah who took away muslim Isa from a cross and made people believe that He died there. Christians believed that after His death, He ressurected, so Allah is responsible for creating the biggest religion in the world, and the biggest rival for islam. Where is logic in this ? Why would Allah made a faith that keeps stealing "true believers" from islam during the ages?

People who lived with Jesus were true worshipper of Allah, they didn't have the belief you have know. so your assumptions are coming using your beliefs. It was later made that Jesus dies for sins and this and that. but this doesn't give u the reason to justify your answer, bc Allah sent you the guidance, so you know the truth, to tell you who really Jesus was, but bc you don't accept that is a different thing. There is a very good logic. is Allah stealing you from true believers? no, it is you , you have the truth in Qur'an, but you choose to steal yourself from true believers. Allah has made truth clear from error. So don't blame anyone. it is you to blame yourself, that you dont' want to accept the truth.

format_quote Originally Posted by - Qatada -

Nope it's not. Since we ALL believe and agree upon One Book atleast - the Qur'an. And we have our religion preserved for us, and the praise is for Allaah.

Are You Saysing All Muslims Adhere To The Same School Of Though ?

format_quote Originally Posted by Balthasar21

Are You Saysing All Muslims Adhere To The Same School Of Though ?

We talking about scripture Balthasar. the Qur'an is the Divine Book, and there is no alteration in it since it's been preserved by Allaah for us.

format_quote Originally Posted by - Qatada -

We talking about scripture Balthasar. the Qur'an is the Divine Book, and there is no alteration in it since it's been preserved by Allaah for us.

So your saying you have the origianal copy of the Quraan Yes ?

By the way nice flip

format_quote Originally Posted by Balthasar21

So your saying you have the origianal copy of the Quraan Yes ?

By the way nice flip

The one compiled by the companions of Allaah's Messenger (peace be upon him) yes.

-------------------------------------
Uthmani Qur'an* -
- compiled by the companions of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him.)

[- In the Topkapi Museum of Turkey, Istanbul today -]

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Qur...s/topkapi.html

If you want to continue this conversation, open a new thread please.





Peace.