Self-righteousness

On the other hand, is it logical that IF a religion is true, that it would tell it's followers to follow whatever the want and that it all matters little.

I understood the statement to mean that there is a risk of people becoming prideful and looking down on others.

For example, it seems that Islam and Christianity both teach it's followers not to look down or judge others, and yet it becomes very easy to fall into the trap of looking down on others (believers and /or non-believer), thinking 'I am better than you', 'I give more to charity that you', 'I dress more modestly that you', 'I am more pious than you' ...

I understood the statement to say that 'the stricter the rules/laws, the greater the risk of developing that 'superior thinking'.

What do you think?

Speaking for myself I certainly have to confess that I am often battling my inner demons of self-righteousness ...

Peace

Just to get a bit post-modernly self-righteous about the quote in the first post, it's 'its' in this context, with no apostrophe.

format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin

Just to get a bit post-modernly self-righteous about the quote in the first post, it's 'its' in this context, with no apostrophe.

It's not so much a direct quote, as my own paraphrasing ... so I'm afraid I have to take personal responsibility, brother!

(I never got the hang of that particular apostrophy rule ... !)

I shall correct it at once ...

format_quote Originally Posted by Iqram

Well sure you're going to have an idea that what you believe is correct and everyone else is wrong naturally in your mind. It's when people start showing it off in ways which aren't normal (eg. unneccessary violence). Other than that I don't see the harm in this as long as it isn't displayed in a wrong manner.

Do you think how we behave is all that matters?

What about our inner attitudes and thoughts? Things we may be able to keep hidden away in our hearts, but which God sees and knows about.
Is it enough to act understanding and forgiving, but not feeling it in your heart?

If God is asking us not to be prideful and judgmental, can we just pretend not to be, but still secretly look down on others and judge them?

Peace

I think it is an interesting concept. I would ask the person whether they would feel that this temptation to become self righteous would be then classified as a test.

I think no matter how you look at it, it will always happen. Let's take an example, someone replies to the above statement;

Duh!! No way, in Islam we are taught to realise that any good we do is from God alone and that we should always humble ourselves, and no matter how much good we do it will never be enough execept with Allah's mercy

Or a Christians says,

Well the Bible teaches that we are not saved through the rigtheous things we do but through God's mercy, Titus 3:5

But the above itself, if someone grasps that concept, i.e. I will only be saved through God's mercy, it is possible that he might then become proud or arrogant that he himself has grasps the concept and others might not have. You see what I mean? He might himself have a momentary lapse in which he sucumbs to the wishpers of the devil through which he himself falls into it. Whether such a slip would be sinful I don't know. But, showing off is a very hidden matter.

Pretty interesting.

format_quote Originally Posted by glo

It's not so much a direct quote, as my own paraphrasing ... so I'm afraid I have to take personal responsibility, brother!

(I never got the hang of that particular apostrophy rule ... !)

It's okay, everyone does it on t'Internet.

I shall correct it at once ...

Good stuff.

About the topic: Hmm... I suppose one could see it that way, but I see the flaws that religious adherents exhibit as being indicative of their own personal imperfections, rather than being indicative of the religion's perceived imperfections.

Taking the quote's logic further - does that mean people who adhere to the laws of UK would be more likely to find those of, say, Holland, inferior because of the latter's more liberal, permissive slant?

format_quote Originally Posted by glo

I understood the statement to mean that there is a risk of people becoming prideful and looking down on others.

For example, it seems that Islam and Christianity both teach it's followers not to look down or judge others, and yet it becomes very easy to fall into the trap of looking down on others (believers and /or non-believer), thinking 'I am better than you', 'I give more to charity that you', 'I dress more modestly that you', 'I am more pious than you' ...

I understood the statement to say that 'the stricter the rules/laws, the greater the risk of developing that 'superior thinking'.

What do you think?

Speaking for myself I certainly have to confess that I am often battling my inner demons of self-righteousness ...

Peace

Yeah I think it's only natural for religion to have pitfalls/traps. Another example would be the importance of tawheed (monotheism) and then directing our prayers towards the Ka'aba. A test that sadly some seem to be failing. Like it says in the Qur'an:

Alif. Lam. Mim.
Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, "We believe", and that they will not be tested?
We did test those before them, and Allah will certainly know those who are true from those who are false. (Al-ankaboot 29:1-3)

As for not feeling superior, I always liked the story of the surath the cave:

Set forth to them the parable of two men: for one of them We provided two gardens of grape-vines and surrounded them with date palms; in between the two We placed corn-fields.
Each of those gardens brought forth its produce, and failed not in the least therein: in the midst of them We caused a river to flow.
(Abundant) was the produce this man had : he said to his companion, in the course of a mutual argument: "more wealth have I than you, and more honour and power in (my following of) men."
He went into his garden in a state (of mind) unjust to his soul: He said, "I deem not that this will ever perish,
"Nor do I deem that the Hour (of Judgment) will (ever) come: Even if I am brought back to my Lord, I shall surely find (there) something better in exchange."
His companion said to him, in the course of the argument with him: "Dost thou deny Him Who created thee out of dust, then out of a sperm-drop, then fashioned thee into a man?
"But (I think) for my part that He is Allah, My Lord, and none shall I associate with my Lord.
"Why didst thou not, as thou wentest into thy garden, say: 'Allah's will (be done)! There is no power but with Allah!' If thou dost see me less than thee in wealth and sons,
"It may be that my Lord will give me something better than thy garden, and that He will send on thy garden thunderbolts (by way of reckoning) from heaven, making it (but) slippery sand!-
Or the water of the garden will run off underground so that thou wilt never be able to find it."
So his fruits (and enjoyment) were encompassed (with ruin), and he remained twisting and turning his hands over what he had spent on his property, which had (now) tumbled to pieces to its very foundations, and he could only say, "Woe is me! Would I had never ascribed partners to my Lord and Cherisher!"
Nor had he numbers to help him against Allah, nor was he able to deliver himself.
There, the (only) protection comes from Allah, the True One. He is the Best to reward, and the Best to give success.
Set forth to them the similitude of the life of this world: It is like the rain which we send down from the skies: the earth's vegetation absorbs it, but soon it becomes dry stubble, which the winds do scatter: it is (only) Allah who prevails over all things.
Wealth and sons are allurements of the life of this world: But the things that endure, good deeds, are best in the sight of thy Lord, as rewards, and best as (the foundation for) hopes.
(Al-Kahf 18:32-46)

format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Fattah

Wealth and sons are allurements of the life of this world: But the things that endure, good deeds, are best in the sight of thy Lord, as rewards, and best as (the foundation for) hopes.
(Al-Kahf 18:32-46)[/B]

Nice story!

But even 'good deeds' and 'righteous acts' can lead us into pride and superiority ... just as much or even more so than wealth and material possessions ... don't you think?

format_quote Originally Posted by glo

Nice story!

But even 'good deeds' and 'righteous acts' can lead us into pride and superiority ... just as much or even more so than wealth and material possessions ... don't you think?

Religions also tend to teach their followers humility.

format_quote Originally Posted by glo

Nice story!

But even 'good deeds' and 'righteous acts' can lead us into pride and superiority ... just as much or even more so than wealth and material possessions ... don't you think?

Yes I agree, that 's why it's good that there are such metaphors in the Qur'an as a reminder that our knowledge is as a garden given by birthright. We shouldn't look down upon those with less knowledge, but instead be thankfull.

format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis

It is an inherent problem with monontheism (including both Islam and Christianity, Judaism too).

As soon as you have people claiming to have the only God and the only acceptable way to live, you're going to have problems, including a superiority complex, division, and intolerance.

So there were no feelings of superiority, division, or intolerance during the days of the Greek and Roman polytheism? You are probably correct that since these cultures observed an extended pantheon of deities, their intolerance wasn't based on a particular god. However, Romans felt that monotheism was a strange concept, and were highly intolerant of those who perscribed to monotheistic worship. I think even beyond religion, feelings of superiority, sewing of divisions, and intolerance are a product of culture. More precisely, what that particular culture is defined by. In many cases it is religion, but in others it is empire, wealth, strength, etc.

Just to add a thought, before the rise of monotheism, the world was dominated by the strong. The strong were rarely tolerant of the weak or concerned with protecting the defenseless. Although I don't agree with much that Nietzshe wrote, his "Geneology of Morals" puts forward an interesting theory explaining how Christianity replaced the "natural" order, where the strong dominate the weak, and put the "weak" in positions of dominance.

just a comment. you do not have to be religious to get all self-righteous! i remember how righteous i felt when i was involved in a political struggle years ago - and how i enjoyed every minute of it. i was Right! it was cool.....

format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs

just a comment. you do not have to be religious to get all self-righteous! i remember how righteous i felt when i was involved in a political struggle years ago - and how i enjoyed every minute of it. i was Right! it was cool.....

LOL
And what happened then, snakelegs? Did you stop being 'right'? :eek: Did you manage to see the other side's point-of-view? Did you just mellow?

I can see you waving placards and shouting slogans ...

no, i never stopped being right, but my side lost the struggle, so i got over it. but oh, it was nice to be righteous! (sigh). the other group were sooooo wrong! (they were marxists). ah, them wuz the days!