So if the lowest is the one with the stars (i.e, presumably, the cosmos as it can be viewed with a telescope) how are the others interpreted? As some sort of other spiritual realms, or planes of conciousness?
Umm... as far as I know this universe is the lowest heaven and there are six others, each one is what bigger than the last (the lowest is like a ring in a desert compared to the 2nd, and the 2nd is like a ring in a desert compared to the 3rd, ect).
format_quote Originally Posted by ranma1/2
doesnt that go against the "Science" of the quran?
nah i'm just askin cuz i want to see what the views are (especially of atheists.)
So from what i see here, they're just opinions of the crunch, bang, expand etc? Yet they don't have no evidences for them? Is it just like a theory?
Thanks for responding.
ok, we don't need again another Joker which just has the wish to expose Atheists or whoever else ! We had already now a few muslims which couldn't also proove anything even except reciting some verses and all their questions had been answered.
Last edited by guyabano; 07-18-2007 at 04:08 PM.
Im Always Right,Its Like,When Im Right,Im Right,And When Im Wrong,I Could've Been Right,So Im Still Right,'Cause I Could've Been Wrong!
Since when did i say i wanted to 'prove' anyone wrong? I'm asking a question and i got a right to do that.
If you really want to know why i'm askin, then ask me. If you just want to accuse me of something which i never intended - then anyone can play that game.
To be honest, there were now 2 threads, about Camouflage and Proof about whatever were the Threadstarters had just the intentions to make all different-believers drop the pants. But they failed blatantly.
Knowing well, the BigBang Story can never been answered, you should then got interest in readings of Stephen Hawkins, he can give you the answeres you are looking for.
But one thing I know for sure: The story about Allah the Creator is as silly as the BigBang Story in that case !
So far, we just bash on each other to finally say nothing.
Was that your intention?
Im Always Right,Its Like,When Im Right,Im Right,And When Im Wrong,I Could've Been Right,So Im Still Right,'Cause I Could've Been Wrong!
nah i'm just askin cuz i want to see what the views are (especially of atheists.)
So from what i see here, they're just opinions of the crunch, bang, expand etc? Yet they don't have no evidences for them? Is it just like a theory?
Thanks for responding.
Most of the replies have been I don't know. As for my reply you asked for my opinion and I gave it. So yes, since you asked for opinions you got opinions.
So far, we just bash on each other to finally say nothing.
Was that your intention?
I've stated right at the beginning of the thread that i never wanted no debates on whether the big bang theory is true. Try checking again if you're in doubt.
I wanted some clarification on the topic since i wanted to know whether there was any scientific research on this topic (of the crunch, expand, bang etc.) rather than it just being an idea.
Does anyone else feel overwhelmed thinking about things like this? Just the thought of how incomprehensibly vast the universe is....
Indeed, The thought of what was before is overwhelming, I used to get this strange sensation with the thought that there was a time when I didn't used to exist! what could have that been like :confused:
In 51:47, Allah says,
“It is We who have raised the Heaven high with force, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it”.
Einstein admitted his mistake in 1929 when Edwin Hubble an astronomer at Caltech, made a critical discovery that the universe is expanding and showed that distant galaxies were, indeed, receding from the earth, and the further away they were, the faster they were moving. That discovery changed cosmology.
format_quote Originally Posted by August
What happened before the big bang? As a theist I'd have to say nothing. When I was an atheist, I always liked the idea about cycles (bang, expand, contract, crunch, bang), made me wonder what the other universes were like.
I too used to wonder what the other universes, other planets etc were like, but even during days when I wasn't as religious or weak in my religion I was convinced that whatever is out there will always consists of elements already shon on the periodic table.
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
I guess, this is one of these questions, nobody will be ever able to answer !
There are answers but whether your content what you find is your choice.
I've stated right at the beginning of the thread that i never wanted no debates on whether the big bang theory is true. Try checking again if you're in doubt.
I wanted some clarification on the topic since i wanted to know whether there was any scientific research on this topic (of the crunch, expand, bang etc.) rather than it just being an idea.
Gator, thanks for your opinion.
Peace.
I apologize, if your intentions are different. I read a lot in some scientific magazines, but to be honest, this blows up my horizon of understanding.
But one thing is for sure, Universe someday will also collapse again.
I invite you to read this ! It explains the BigBang therorie rather good !
Peace
Im Always Right,Its Like,When Im Right,Im Right,And When Im Wrong,I Could've Been Right,So Im Still Right,'Cause I Could've Been Wrong!
I apologize, if your intentions are different. I read a lot in some scientific magazines, but to be honest, this blows up my horizon of understanding.
But one thing is for sure, Universe someday will also collapse again.
I invite you to read this ! It explains the BigBang therorie rather good !
Peace
Thankyou.
About the Universe collapsing, i wouldn't find that surprising since this earth, and the universe will perish, and that is a sign for the establishment of the Day of Judgement. I.e. that day will occur after this. And Allaah knows best.
Thanks for the link btw.
Peace.
Last edited by - Qatada -; 07-18-2007 at 04:41 PM.
Reason: sp.
The science of modern cosmology, observational and theoretical, clearly indicates that, at one point in time, the whole universe was nothing but a cloud of ‘smoke’ (i.e. an opaque highly dense and hot gaseous composition).1 This is one of the undisputed principles of standard modern cosmology. Scientists now can observe new stars forming out of the remnants of that ‘smoke’ (see figures 10 and 11).
The illuminating stars we see at night were, just as was the whole universe, in that ‘smoke’ material. God has said in the Quran: Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke... (Quran, 41:11)
Because the earth and the heavens above (the sun, the moon, stars, planets, galaxies, etc.) have been formed from this same ‘smoke,’ we conclude that the earth and the heavens were one connected entity. Then out of this homogeneous ‘smoke,’ they formed and separated from each other. God has said in the Quran: Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?... (Quran, 21:30)
Dr. Alfred Kroner is one of the world’s renowned geologists. He is Professor of Geology and the Chairman of the Department of Geology at the Institute of Geosciences, Johannes Gutenberg University, Mainz, Germany. He said: “Thinking where Muhammad came from . . . I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years, with very complicated and advanced technological methods, that this is the case.”2 (video ). Also he said: “Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics fourteen hundred years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind, for instance, that the earth and the heavens had the same origin.”3 (video).
Once scientists understood that the universe was expanding, they immediately realized that it would have been smaller in the past. At some point in the past, the entire universe would have been a single point. This point, later called the big bang, was the beginning of the universe as we understand it today.
The expanding universe is finite in both time and space. The reason that the universe did not collapse, as Newton's and Einstein's equations said it might, is that it had been expanding from the moment of its creation. The universe is in a constant state of change. The expanding universe, a new idea based on modern physics, laid to rest the paradoxes that troubled astronomers from ancient times until the early 20th Century.
In the Qur'an, which was revealed 14 centuries ago at a time when the science of astronomy was still primitive, the expansion of the universe was described like this:
"And it is We who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it."
(The Qur'an, 51:47)
The word "heaven", as stated in this verse, is used in various places in the Qur'an with the meaning of space and universe. Here again, the word is used with this meaning. In other words, in the Qur'an it is revealed that the universe "expands". And this is the very conclusion that science has reached today.
Universe will collapse
If the mass density of the universe were greater than the critical density, then the universe would reach a maximum size and then begin to collapse. It would become denser and hotter again, ending with a state that was similar to that in which it started—a Big Crunch.[32]
"The Day that We roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books (completed),- even as We produced the first creation, so shall We produce a new one: a promise We have undertaken: truly shall We fulfil it. (The Noble Quran, 21:104)"
Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny? - [Quran 55:13]
Last edited by islamirama; 07-19-2007 at 02:41 PM.
Am I missing something here? Isn't asking what happened before the big bang rather like asking what conditions are like 25,000 kilometres below the Earth's surface?
The science of modern cosmology, observational and theoretical, clearly indicates that, at one point in time, the whole universe was nothing but a cloud of ‘smoke’ (i.e. an opaque highly dense and hot gaseous composition)
I take it you say 'smoke' rather than smoke because smoke does not have "an opaque highly dense and hot gaseous composition"? Smoke is a cloud of fine particles suspended in a gas. Use of the 'smoke' analogy seems restricted to those who peddle Qur'anic 'science'... I wonder why?
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Do you deny that we have stars?:confused:
Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke...
(Quran, 41:11)
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