I've just watched an interesting documentary broadcast by the BBC about Muslims (resident in the UK) converting to Christianity (did any body else happen to see it?). Some of the converts have been subject to violent attacks by other Muslims who disapprove with the conversion. I wonder what people thought about this given that many widely available Islamic texts actively encourage violent acts to those who apostatise.
The whole thing around Islam, Christianity and Judaism is very simple. These are the facts and no-, I mean nobody can deny them:
1. Jews before and at the time of Jesus (peace upon him):
They followed what was given to Moses (peace upon him), but when Allah (swt) sent Jesus (peace upon him) and gave him the Revelation, which would restore the distortions Jews had made to the Revelation given to Moses (peace upon him), some followed Jesus (peace upon him) and some didn't.
2. Christians before and at the time of Muhammed (blessings and peace be upon him):
They followed what was given to Jesus (peace upon him), but when Allah (swt) sent Muhammed (blessings and peace be upon him) and gave him the Revelation, which would be the Final Revelation and for all mankind, some followed him (blessings and peace be upon him) and some didn't. Same goes for Jews in that time. And same goes for those (a)theists, poly/multi-theists, etc.
Some Jews were too proud to accept the Revelation given to Jesus (peace upon him), and some (Jews, Christians, Kuffaar, etc.) were/are too proud to accept the Revelation given to Muhammed (blessings and peace be upon him).
The same stands even today. Those who hear the Message of Islam and don't accept it, are - generally speaking - arroganters.
Some Jews were too proud to accept the Revelation given to Jesus (peace upon him), and some (Jews, Christians, Kuffaar, etc.) were/are too proud to accept the Revelation given to Muhammed (blessings and peace be upon him).
The same stands even today. Those who hear the Message of Islam and don't accept it, are - generally speaking - arroganters.
Some muslims were/are too proud to accept the revelation given to Bahá'u'lláh.
The same stands even today. Those who hear the Message of Bahá'í and don't accept it, are - generally speaking - arroganters.
Some muslims were/are too proud to accept the revelation given to Bahá'u'lláh.
The same stands even today. Those who hear the Message of Bahá'í and don't accept it, are - generally speaking - arroganters.
No, not true, as Baha'i have completely different belief system than original followers of Moses, Jesus and now people who follow the Final Messenger of Allah (swt).
BTW, the Qur'an denies any other faith except Islam. Baha'i is not Islam. End of story. There are no Revelations after the Qur'an.
Now, why are you trying to take definitions of Islam or the Qur'an using some bad web sites, or better to say, a non-Muslim? If you want to read true explanations of the Qur'an, then take it from the Scholars of Islam, not from auto mechanics or similar, is that not fair?
did they not stop feeding them to lions after blending Paulism and Roman Paganism (Perhaps Romans were running out of Christians who followed mosaic laws)?:confused:
Romans didn't mind those Jews who followed Mosaic laws, they were actually welcome in Rome and had their own places of worship free from persecution.
The persecution of Christians began with Nero from 64-69 A.D. and would continue to the worst persecutions under Emperors Diocletian and Galerius from 303-313 A.D. Then Constantine would come to power and legalize the practice of Christianity within the Roman Empire. It wouldn't be until the rein of Theodosius in the latter 4th century that Christianity would become the official religion of the Roman Empire.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
No, not true, as Baha'i have completely different belief system than original followers of Moses, Jesus and now people who follow the Final Messenger of Allah (swt).
BTW, the Qur'an denies any other faith except Islam. Baha'i is not Islam. End of story. There are no Revelations after the Qur'an.
The Baha'i believe Mohammad was not God's final prophet. They consider their faith to be a continuation of Islam, Christianity etc.
Look, what I'm trying to say that Christians and most other religions (not Baha'i though) also believe their revelation is the final one.
-You said:
BTW, the Qur'an denies any other faith except Islam. Baha'i is not Islam. End of story. There are no Revelations after the Qur'an.
-which can be changed to:
BTW, the bible denies any other faith except christianity. Islam is not Christianity. End of story. There are no Revelations after the Bible.
-Is there a difference to meaning? Not really.
Now, why are you trying to take definitions of Islam or the Qur'an using some bad web sites, or better to say, a non-Muslim? If you want to read true explanations of the Qur'an, then take it from the Scholars of Islam, not from auto mechanics or similar, is that not fair?
I wasn't talking about Islam at least not in a way that requires knowledge of it.
Hehe, I wonder if you get your explenations of christianity and the bible from christian theologians.
Last edited by Whatsthepoint; 11-08-2007 at 11:36 PM.
The Baha'i believe Mohammad was not God's final prophet. They consider their faith to be a continuation of Islam, Christianity etc.
Look, what I'm trying to say that Christians and most other religions (not Baha'i though) also believe their revelation is the final one.
-You said:
BTW, the Qur'an denies any other faith except Islam. Baha'i is not Islam. End of story. There are no Revelations after the Qur'an.
-which can be changed to:
BTW, the bible denies any other faith except christianity. Islam is not Christianity. End of story. There are no Revelations after the Bible.
-Is there a difference to meaning? Not really.
I wasn't talking about Islam at least not in a way that requires knowledge of it.
The Bible is distorted, even the pope knows that, yet he still follows it (not sure if he really does up to a letter). Nobody can prove that the Bible as people read it today is God's word. Whoever says so is a big-time liar. BTW, not even the original text exists, so how can somebody says that translations of the Bible are God's Word? Obviously, what a man translates is not God's Word any more, but merely an interpretation. Additionally, how many translations of the Bible there are today? 50? Will somebody say that God authored all of them? No, of course not.
BTW, does a word Christianity exist in the Bible?
Hehe, I wonder if you take your explenations of christianity from christian theologians.
The Bible scholars cannot agree on what the Bible really is. I do not need to produce anything on my own, it's enough to cite the Bible scholars, even though some of them might be auto mechanics at the same time, no offense.
The Bible is distorted, even the pope knows that, yet he still follows it (not sure if he really does up to a letter). Nobody can prove that the Bible as people read it today is God's word. Whoever says so is a big-time liar. BTW, not even the original text exists, so how can somebody says that translations of the Bible are God's Word? Obviously, what a man translates is not God's Word any more, but merely an interpretation. Additionally, how many translations of the Bible there are today? 50? Will somebody say that God authored all of them? No, of course not.
BTW, does a word Christianity exist in the Bible?
The same goes for the Quran. Nobody acn prove that it is the Word of God. You can make fancy sites about its perfection and dubious miracles but, hey, christians do the same. As I have already told you once (and Grace Seeker demonstrated on many occasions), christianity is also perfect. All so called contradictions are explained, justified. All arguments for the bible being alterted have been answered...of course, it depends on how much you believe them but it goes the same for the Quran.
Christianity? Don't think so.
In my opinion neither christianity neither silam are from God. However, all muslims and all christians "know" their religions are from God and have "lots of stuff" to prove it.
The Bible scholars cannot agree on what the Bible really is. I do not need to produce anything on my own, it's enough to cite the Bible scholars, even though some of them might be auto mechanics at the same time, no offense.
True, christianity is divided in some areas, however all christians agree on the basics.
You shouldn't apologize to me, you should apologize to Bible scholars, none of whom, I am sure, is automechanic. And if some happen to be automechanics they also hold a degree in theology (and often a second degree in phylosophy, history etc).
The Bible is distorted, even the pope knows that, yet he still follows it (not sure if he really does up to a letter). Nobody can prove that the Bible as people read it today is God's word. Whoever says so is a big-time liar. BTW, not even the original text exists, so how can somebody says that translations of the Bible are God's Word? Obviously, what a man translates is not God's Word any more, but merely an interpretation. Additionally, how many translations of the Bible there are today? 50? Will somebody say that God authored all of them? No, of course not.
BTW, does a word Christianity exist in the Bible?
The Bible scholars cannot agree on what the Bible really is. I do not need to produce anything on my own, it's enough to cite the Bible scholars, even though some of them might be auto mechanics at the same time, no offense.
Why would the word Christianity appear in the Bible? That was the title accepted by the followers of Jesus Christ.
As for the Pope "knowing" the Bible is distorted, how did you come by that little gem of knowledge? No offense, but it seems that many people on this forum like to make statements with no basis in reality. Would you like to supply some documentation of the Pope accepting this so-called distortion? I would be interested in reading it. I'm not even Catholic, but I do prefer to work with truth when possible.
As for the translations, it doesn't matter how many languages the Bible is translated into, it is still the Bible. Of course all are encouraged to read the Bible in the original Hebrew and the Greek for the NT. Of course that requires one to learn different languages, which is why translations are needed in the first place. I suppose you would say any Qu'ran translated into English is distorted and should be ignored?, and that all converts to Islam must read the Qu'ran in Arabic before truly reading God's word? Does God only speak Arabic?
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
Some muslims were/are too proud to accept the revelation given to Bahá'u'lláh.
The same stands even today. Those who hear the Message of Bahá'í and don't accept it, are - generally speaking - arroganters.
lol
With the name of Allah (God Almighty)
The Bestower Of Unlimited Mercy, The Continously Merciful
Say (O Muhammad SAW):
"O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)
Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but God,
and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides God.
Then, if they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims (bowing to God's Will). "
[3.64]
Last edited by Muslim Woman; 11-09-2007 at 12:07 AM.
Christ will never be proud to reject to be a slave to God .....holy Quran, chapter Women , 4: 172
The whole thing around Islam, Christianity and Judaism is very simple. These are the facts and no-, I mean nobody can deny them:
Some Jews were too proud to accept the Revelation given to Jesus (peace upon him), and some (Jews, Christians, Kuffaar, etc.) were/are too proud to accept the Revelation given to Muhammed (blessings and peace be upon him).
The same stands even today. Those who hear the Message of Islam and don't accept it, are - generally speaking - arroganters.
Yeah sure and nowadays some mormons could say that some muslims were too proud to accept the Revalation of Joseph Smith jr. You really think that the more new religion, the more true it is? You like to show your religious beliefs, so maybe i will remind you that for christians every prophets who appear after The Messiah are false, no matter muslim prophet Muhammed or mormon prophet Joseph Smith.
This country is dying because of a lack of men, not a lack of programs.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
The same goes for the Quran. Nobody acn prove that it is the Word of God. You can make fancy sites about its perfection and dubious miracles but, hey, christians do the same. As I have already told you once (and Grace Seeker demonstrated on many occasions), christianity is also perfect. All so called contradictions are explained, justified. All arguments for the bible being alterted have been answered...of course, it depends on how much you believe them but it goes the same for the Quran.
Christianity? Don't think so.
In my opinion neither christianity neither silam are from God. However, all muslims and all christians "know" their religions are from God and have "lots of stuff" to prove it.
True, christianity is divided in some areas, however all christians agree on the basics.
You shouldn't apologize to me, you should apologize to Bible scholars, none of whom, I am sure, is automechanic. And if some happen to be automechanics they also hold a degree in theology (and often a second degree in phylosophy, history etc).
In fact, it's better to be an auto mechanic than some sleezy banker, rite? kay: So there's nothing to apologize for as I respect auto mechanics more than many other kinds of jobs.
Now, back to the subject. It's true that if angels were sent down, some folks would never believe they really are angels - some folks will never believe.
PS I'm not so sure that contradictions in the Bible have been explained. Perhaps some of them were but many remain and will remain until the Judgment Day.
PS-2 not Play Station 2
Christianity (or the Bible?) cannot be perfect unless you say "perfection is contradiction", then I'd agree. The Bible doesn't even have the definition of who God is. The NT I mean. And about Jesus, upon whom be peace, he never ever gave an explicit statement that he is God, that people must worship him. And pls don't start with the Abraham verse now. Many are before Abraham, upon whom be peace, was.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
An infant can claim, claim anything, yet an infant has to prove its claim. Be my guest, prove who a false prophet is. I give you a life-time.
BTW Islam also claims that there will be false prophets, actually, Muslims proved that, it's in the history, not so long ago, some false prophets even got executed.
An infant can claim, claim anything, yet an infant has to prove its claim. Be my guest, prove who a false prophet is. I give you a life-time.
BTW Islam also claims that there will be false prophets, actually, Muslims proved that, it's in the history, not so long ago, some false prophets even got executed.
For christians everyone who comes after Christ and calls himself a prophet of God is false prophet.
This country is dying because of a lack of men, not a lack of programs.
As for the translations, it doesn't matter how many languages the Bible is translated into, it is still the Bible. Of course all are encouraged to read the Bible in the original Hebrew and the Greek for the NT. Of course that requires one to learn different languages, which is why translations are needed in the first place. I suppose you would say any Qu'ran translated into English is distorted and should be ignored?, and that all converts to Islam must read the Qu'ran in Arabic before truly reading God's word? Does God only speak Arabic?
I'll leave the pope for now.
Now you tell me, if you write a book, then I somehow get it in my hands, change the contents, and publish it, it that still the same book? No, of course not. What you would probably do, you would sue me for making changes and earning money, would you now?
True followers of Jesus, peace upon him, were not Christians, so I kinda understand what you say.
Well again you just show your point of view, and you shouldnt think that others will accept ffended:.
BTW could you give me one single proof that muslims existed before the times of muslim prophet Muhammed? Just one single please.
This country is dying because of a lack of men, not a lack of programs.
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kay: So there's nothing to apologize for as I respect auto mechanics more than many other kinds of jobs.
Re: Muslims converting to Christianity
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