Just another episode of getting to know each other.
Do you think we are humble enough?
What is your definition of being humble?
What do you think of humble people? Do you think they are weak?
In Islam...pride is no no...in whatever you do.
Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “No one who harbors an atom’s weight of pride in his heart can hope to enter Paradise.”
The Prophet Muhammad said,
“al Kibr is when you argue with the truth and you look down upon people.”
Last edited by syilla; 12-15-2007 at 11:46 PM.
25:36 And the true servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk the earth with humility and when the ignorant address them, they respond with words of peace.
I think that pride is a normal part of life, an we all have pride, whether we want to admit it or not. However, pride is not a bad thing.
It all depends really on what one is prideful about, and why. Like if someone is proud to be a smart person, I see nothing wrong with that. They are smart, and happy about that!! Good for them!
Others are prideful that they are a muslim or christian or something.. And that is ok!
It becomes a problem once one is like proud to be a murderer, or pedophile, or bad things of that nature.
So it all depends on what the pride is, and to what extent, in my opinion!
The world is not as easy as black and white. There are always a lot of in betweens. For example, I think that if we were in the second century, then I would not support sex before marriage, because out of wedlock births could happen more.
However, now days I have no problem with it, since we have protection, and have matured in more ways that it takes consent, etc. I could never say "we should always ban sex before marriage" or "we should always allow it" because I think it depends on when, who, etc. Sort of like "progressive revelation" you could say!
In a religious context, I believe all people of faith need to become more humble. Speaking from a Christian perspective, I find many Christians to be arrogant in their dealings with other faiths. It always annoys me when someone believes they can dispense God's judgement. There is a fine line between faith and arrogance. Many cross it on a daily basis.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
I believe as long as a person holds an ideology, they can never be truely humble
That’s a good point.
There is a clear and unmistakable sound of arrogance and egotism within the theistic environments, usually something the religions the theist embraces insists the theist avoid.
How does believing humans (and only those select humans who join the “right team”) will live eternally (in heaven or hell) embrace a humble philosophy? It’s the arrogance of anthropomorphism -- that we humans are so special, that all of existence was created jes for little ole us... etc. etc.
It seems to me that the theistic rigmaroles are in place because they address people’s fear of death (our mortality). None of us want to die and be dead. We all want eternal life and yet the atheist, who can contemplate a life that ends, is the "arrogant" one, the self-indulgent one-- the one who "thinks he's god"-- even though theists are the ones who think they're going to have eternal life. I'd say this desire for eternal life bathed in infinite love for an eternity-- is egotism run rampant. Oh, I know many will say "it's enough to just love god!" but ultimately, if theists didn't think they’d get the brass ring from the whole thing, they wouldn't believe it.
oh yeah...i forgot to mention that in islam, humble is for the sake of Allah subhanahuwata'ala and not for the others.
format_quote Originally Posted by Isambard
I believe as long as a person holds an ideology, they can never be truely humble
Eventhough ones hold an ideology...ones should not think that ones is greater than the other. An ideology should not be ones excuses to not being humble.
A principle which we hold on to, should make us be a better person.
Even as a muslim, ones should be afraid of Allah punishment, that without his mercy ones can not have faith. Muslim believe that eeman (faith) is the most important thing and pride is one of those thing that can spoil the eeman...
25:36 And the true servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk the earth with humility and when the ignorant address them, they respond with words of peace.
oh yeah...i forgot to mention that in islam, humble is for the sake of Allah subhanahuwata'ala and not for the others.
098.006 YUSUFALI: Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.
PICKTHAL: Lo! those who disbelieve, among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings.
SHAKIR: Surely those who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book and the polytheists shall be in the fire of hell, abiding therein; they are the worst of men.
yup that is a warning from Allah and up to Allah to judge and not for the Muslimin to judge and punish.
The muslim duties are only to give da'wah and naseeha (advice).
As one of our famous imaan said ; “I have never debated with someone except that I wished the truth becomes clear; regardless whether it comes from his tongue or mine”.
the only problem is...when ones think they are holier than the other
25:36 And the true servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk the earth with humility and when the ignorant address them, they respond with words of peace.
yup that is a warning from Allah and up to Allah to judge and not for the Muslimin to judge and punish.
The muslim duties are only to give da'wah and naseeha (advice).
As one of our famous imaan said ; “I have never debated with someone except that I wished the truth becomes clear; regardless whether it comes from his tongue or mine”.
the only problem is...when ones think they are holier than the other
I understand the ideology suggests that to you, but I have to believe that you can appreciate the message portrayed. The verses are quite clear in how they denigrate the infidels.
There’s not a lot of wiggle room in interpreting “They are the worst of creatures”. Let’s suppose that the holy text of a competing religion identified muslims with verses describing them thusly: ”They are the worst of creatures” Would you interpret that as being a term less than endearing of your religion?
Anyway...the muslim is not the writer of the quran.
Last edited by syilla; 12-17-2007 at 02:51 AM.
25:36 And the true servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk the earth with humility and when the ignorant address them, they respond with words of peace.
Well, I didnt just means theists. There is inherent arrogance in any ideological position religious and otherwise.
In secular ideologies, there is still the assumption that you holding a certain set of values has the secret knowledge which then makes you feel you are somehow 'better' than someone who doesnt share your views.
The only way you could objectively claim that your views are better than someone elses is for there to be some divine arbitrator behind the universe(s).
As an atheist, I hold the above as not true so my views, and the views of other ppl are not better than another in an objective sense
It is true that those who believe there is a gift of eternal life in the worship of God tend to behave as if they are special. Athiests tend to behave as if they are intellectually superior because of their ideology. So I suppose seriously held beliefs do produce a certain arrogance.
I believe it was Socrates who said something like "The wise man understands that he knows nothing." Always liked that line.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
Forget humble for a second....and concentrate on what makes you humble....
The person who has no idea that he is humble- is humble. To humble oneself is to be in awe of the creation and power of Allah subhanahu wata'aala and to realise that we are mighty insignificant in the grand scheme of things....we place too much importance on ourselves; the individual...when really...our life on this dunya is nothing....as are we. Realise the magnitude of sins we commit....and then use it to humble yourself by begging for the forgiveness of your Lord and realising that we need Him so much.
anyone who claims to be saved isnt humble, anyone who claims to be guided isnt humble and anyone who claims to be intelligent isnt humble.
Lastly as snakelegs said, anyone who claims to be humble isnt humble
Well it would depend on what you mean by humble. If you can prove to absolutely everyone (making it objective) that you intelligent/saved/guided, then your statement would be a truth, not arrogance.
Well it would depend on what you mean by humble. If you can prove to absolutely everyone (making it objective) that you intelligent/saved/guided, then your statement would be a truth, not arrogance.
Therein lies the problem, not everyone agrees
but its impossible to prove that. well from an islamic perspective you can never know,
you strive to the end for your salvation always hoping for mercy and fearing punishment, being contented and understanding your status. Realising nothing is in control and your every move is at the mercy of God.
^ tell me, does that summary sound humble?!
-
My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
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but its impossible to prove that. well from an islamic perspective you can never know,
you strive to the end for your salvation always hoping for mercy and fearing punishment, being contented and understanding your status. Realising nothing is in control and your every move is at the mercy of God.
^ tell me, does that summary sound humble?!
I'd say if everyone adhered to one religion and one philosophy w/o exception then it could be.
You would need a God(s) or if your secular, universal truths (which serves the same purposes and runs into the same problems) for your statement to have a chance for any personal positive claim to not be arrogant.
And yes, I think your quote above can be considered not-humble not necessarily because of what it says, but because of the next line of thought that would logically follow it, There is a God and he cares about what you do
The scriptures note that Jesus humbled Himself. Yet Jesus confidently stated the truth and disputed with anyone who misled others, including religious leaders. How then was Jesus humble? Jesus humbled Himself before God. He stated “My Father is greater than I”.
If we use Jesus’ model of humility, then we too must humble ourselves before God, know God’s ways for us, and confidently direct others to a relationship with Him. This may require that we dispute with others who, whether intentionally or ignorantly, mislead others. We may be ridiculed. However, Jesus taught us:
“A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher, and a servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more will they call those of his household! Therefore do not fear them. For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known. (Matthew 10:24-26)
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to all muslims and good day to the non-muslims...
said,
punishment, that without his mercy ones can not have faith. Muslim believe that eeman (faith) is the most important thing and pride is one of those thing that can spoil the eeman... 
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