My turn.
Heaven = awesome place
This earth / life = crap hole
Hell = hole.
i have kidnapped this from the thread on paradise.
i know this type of thinking is not uncommon among religious people. i find it incomprehensible and troubling.
how can you possibly believe this earth/life = crap hole?
god made this earth and gave you and me life, how can you disdain it? he made this planet and filled it full of beauty and things that are a source of constant wonder and awe.
you may think it is but a passing shadow compared to eternity but that does not mean that it is not wonderful and beautiful and full of miracles and much to be thankful for.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
although i believe in god, i do not believe in an afterlife, which probably also makes it harder for me to understand.
Forgive me snakelegs but I find your comments odd, you believe in a God but there is no afterlife that seems to suggest that life on Earth is the best that God can create.
This seems an inadequate God to me.
In the spirit of searching for a greatest, fair and just God.
Forgive me snakelegs but I find your comments odd, you believe in a God but there is no afterlife that seems to suggest that life on Earth is the best that God can create.
This seems an inadequate God to me.
In the spirit of searching for a greatest, fair and just God.
Eric
i base my beliefs on my experience. i only came to believe in god within the last 10 years. i believe in no religion. nothing in my experience has led me to believe in an afterlife, but i cannot say that there is no such thing either.
i just don't know if god wants us to live forever....of course if he does, he can create anything he wants to.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
Snakelegs, I think this pretty much gives you a good answer to what you were looking for. Well, at least I hope it does, inshaa Allaah.
This is taken from an excerpt from ''The things that endure, good deeds'' by Shaykh Salman Al Oadah.
''The Qur'ân and Sunnah do not teach us to forsake or disparage our worldly lives in order to attain success in the Hereafter. The two worlds are not mutually exclusive. This is why the Qur'ân teaches us the supplication: "Our Lord! Give us the good in this world and the good of the Hereafter, and save us from the punishment of Hell."
People are not divided into those who aspire for this world and those who renounce the world to focus on the Hereafter. Not at all. Rather, the distinction is between those people who pin their hopes exclusively on their worldly existence and care nothing for the Hereafter, and those who seek the good in both.
Logic and common sense tell us that achieving the good in both this world and the Hereafter is the best possible scenario. A believer, therefore, does not renounce the world, but aspires to what is wholesome and good within it. We see that the prophets and Messengers – though they made great sacrifices, suffered rejection, and endured hardship and poverty for the sake of their faith – they were not people who lived in distress of the world. They were happy people, who were at peace with their worldly lives.
What Allah reminds us in these verses and others is that we should not get caught up in he pursuit of worldly rewards at the expense of the Hereafter. We should work for success in both, keeping in mind that the rewards of this world are transient and those of the Hereafter are eternal.
This is emphasized by the order of words in these verses. Allah says: "the things that endure, good deeds."
Allah could have said "enduring good deeds" or "good deeds that endure". Instead, Allah emphasizes the quality of permanence, drawing our attention to how it contrasts with worldly blessings like "wealth and children". Once this contrast is established strongly in our minds, we are then informed of the way we can attain these permanent blessings – by engaging in acts of righteousness.
This is powerful. Nothing causes worry for human beings more than the loss of what we have, the loss of wealth, of health, and the inevitable loss of youth. There is no stronger context, then, for us to be reminded of the enduring value of our good deeds.''
This life and this world definitely have more value than a toilet. This life is an amazing gift even with all of its suffering and pain there is still a lot of beauty and kindness. However, we Muslims believe that as compared to the Hereafter, the suffering even of the Jews in the Nazi death camps of WWII does not hold a candle to that of those in Hell. Likewise, the pleasures enjoyed by the richest kings on earth can't compare to what will be enjoyed by the lowest ranking person in Heaven. As I said, this life has tremendous value in that how we spend it determines our Eternity. (copied from other thread)
As a cotton breeder and geneticist, I am amazed at the genetic blueprint for almost (some are parthenogenic) every living organism is defined at conception with the union of a single egg and a single sperm. All I can say is "Glory to Allah!"
As a Christian, we obviously await the return of Christ, but I wouldn't say the majority of Christians see no value in the Earth and all its resources and beauty. If you do not see the beauty in the world you do not see the beauty in God's creation.
That being said, if by the "world" we are referring to the domain of men and women, meaning the cities, wealth, drugs, violence, depravity, etc, then we are indeed talking about a toilet. Since it is hard to avoid this toilet, it becomes a testing ground for the human soul.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
i base my beliefs on my experience. i only came to believe in god within the last 10 years.
Thanks for your reply and I have seen you mention belief in God before. There are two possibilities God the creator of the universe exists fully and totally, or there is no God. If God exists then he has to be as real as the chair I am sitting on. The meaning of a chair might be functionality, comfort, looks, but what is the greatest meaning of God?
The universe has been created; whatever you or I choose to believe about creation cannot alter the truth of a past event. If God the creator exists fully and totally then he has to be the most important being to you or I.
The God that cannot exist is the probably God, how can a God probably exist outside of our imagination? He either exists fully and totally or there is no God.
i believe in no religion. nothing in my experience has led me to believe in an afterlife, but i cannot say that there is no such thing either.
Religion is very different to God, and religion is very troubling for me too, the same God who created me and gave me a faith through Christianity also created you, and he created people of all faiths and no faith.
God chooses whom he wills but he seems to favour diversity.
i just don't know if god wants us to live forever....of course if he does, he can create anything he wants to.
If God wants us to live forever then surely it must be for a greater purpose than we witness here on Earth.
In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of one God,
Thanks for your reply and I have seen you mention belief in God before. There are two possibilities God the creator of the universe exists fully and totally, or there is no God. If God exists then he has to be as real as the chair I am sitting on. The meaning of a chair might be functionality, comfort, looks, but what is the greatest meaning of God?
The universe has been created; whatever you or I choose to believe about creation cannot alter the truth of a past event. If God the creator exists fully and totally then he has to be the most important being to you or I.
The God that cannot exist is the probably God, how can a God probably exist outside of our imagination? He either exists fully and totally or there is no God.
Religion is very different to God, and religion is very troubling for me too, the same God who created me and gave me a faith through Christianity also created you, and he created people of all faiths and no faith.
God chooses whom he wills but he seems to favour diversity.
If God wants us to live forever then surely it must be for a greater purpose than we witness here on Earth.
In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of one God,
Eric
i would agree but when i came to believe in god, i first believed in the probably god.
now i don't - i believe in the one god, the creator of all (including an afterlife, if there is one)
i see religion more as an obstacle. (i've never belonged to one and wasn't raised in any.) i see religions as man-made institutions.
my understanding and beliefs have changed over the years and i don't rule anything out. for the first 5 decades of my life, i did not believe in god, though i've never been an atheist. as long as we live, there is room for change.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
how can you possibly believe this earth/life = crap hole?
It is not. In Quran it is not like that. Allah tells us to enjoy the good things in this life he has given, and by following his guidance we will get best of the both worlds, but this world is a temporary abode and he will gives us ease and hardship to test us who is best in deeds. So main focus is next-life.
Disclaimer: Not sure if this translation is entirely correct.
Blessed is He in Whose Hand is the dominion, and He has the Ability to do all things.
(He's the One) Who has created death and life, so He may test you which of you is best in deed. And He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving;
(He's the One) Who has created the seven heavens one above another, you can see no fault in the creations of the Most Beneficent. Then look again: "Can you see any rifts?"
Then look again and yet again, your sight will return to you in a state of humiliation and worn out. [Holy Quran 67:1-4]
It is not Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, and obedience to Allâh, etc.) that you turn your faces towards east and (or) west (in prayers); but Al-Birr is (the quality of) the one who believes in Allâh, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book, the Prophets and gives his wealth, in spite of love for it, to the kinsfolk, to the orphans, and to Al-Masâkîn (the poor), and to the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and to set slaves free, performs As-Salât, and gives the Zakât, and keep their word whenever they make a promise, and who are patient in extreme poverty and ailment (disease) and at the time of persecution, hardship, and war. Such are the people of the truth and they are Al-Muttaqûn (the pious).
it's not that this world is crap or anything of such, it's just that we shouldn't be drawn in the 'what seems to be luxury' things. That is because the word will come to an end, as it won't last forever.
the akhirah compared to this is nothing, and only then will you realise it.
subhanallah the prophet *sallahu alyhe wassam* told us our life of this world is like a traveler..!
Because pinning your hopes on something for which there's no evidence is not generally a good idea.
Peace
oo...i better answer this before i forget huhu.
Do you know that in islam we are not just hoping but also we have to work for it.
And again...pinning hopes and working it is much better than not hoping and not working for it. What 'if' (in your definition) there is an after life? and for us...don't you think even there is no after life (again in your definition) we have nothing to loose
Last edited by syilla; 02-11-2010 at 09:19 AM.
Reason: my bad english usage
25:36 And the true servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk the earth with humility and when the ignorant address them, they respond with words of peace.
Thank you for bringing this reminder of snakelegs back to our attention, syilla.
She sure liked to ponder and ask questions. I like to think that God delights in her!
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
uh , what a shock . When I opened the thread , I did not expect to see snakeleg's post at all . I hope , she died with this firm beleive that God is one ; thus will be forgiven.
Christ will never be proud to reject to be a slave to God .....holy Quran, chapter Women , 4: 172
I love the nature of this world and the beauty that was created within it. However, as I awe at some of the most breath-taking scenery and discoveries, immediately the first thing I think of is Allah. This type of beauty is what separates me from thinking of the secular world--the world that is filled with futile desires that create dead hearts and instead I long to see my Creator and I long to see what is in Paradise.
Sunsets are beautiful, trees are amazing, oceans are soothing, but nothing in this world compares to what is awaiting us in Paradise, no matter the beautiful scenery we see, and this is done purposefully because it is merely a taste or less of Allah's capabilities. Yet honestly...not many people actually hesitate to notice these remarkable things..instead they turn to materialistic objects, money, status, and seeking ways to fulfill their desires. You don't get the same affect looking at a $100 like you would watching a baby inside its mother's womb, or watching the sky change as the sun rises in the morning.
There are more people who's attention turns towards the world seeking futile pleasure than there are people who turn their attention away from it seeking something above it. Therefore anything that has the capabilities of feeding our lower desires should not be wanted, and this world does just that!
Thank you for bringing this reminder of snakelegs back to our attention, syilla.
She sure liked to ponder and ask questions. I like to think that God delights in her!
I was suprised to see a Snakelegs thread! Hoped for a second the news of her had been wrong.
i have kidnapped this from the thread on paradise.
i know this type of thinking is not uncommon among religious people. i find it incomprehensible and troubling.
how can you possibly believe this earth/life = crap hole?
god made this earth and gave you and me life, how can you disdain it? he made this planet and filled it full of beauty and things that are a source of constant wonder and awe.
you may think it is but a passing shadow compared to eternity but that does not mean that it is not wonderful and beautiful and full of miracles and much to be thankful for.
It's a debatable subject. I personally admire the flowers and nature's beauty, but it will all one day come to an end. All shall decay, and nothing lives on forever. That, my friend, is the only certain thing about life.
There is a poem in Arabic, and I will translate just one fragment of it... "The world is the field for the hereafter." The book is called Mufid ut Talibeen. You may or may not have heard of it. At any rate, it commentates into thus:
Everything good we do in this life, every seed we sow, is what we will harvest in the hereafter. Nobody likes to work. We may have a small vegetable garden in our backyard, but I highly doubt anyone of us here are farmers. And a farmers' life is very laborious. But the end product is very rewarding, if the upbringing of the harvest was good. We shall reap the benefits and rewards of the harvest in the world to come.
Work is like "c***". I think c*** is a bad word, so I'll replace it with poop.
This world is poop because there's so much injustice, bias-ness, and what have you. The world today has turned over. People dressing almost naked, tattered clothing, no modesty, no shame.
Everyone should be thankful. When saying this world is poop, we mean the injustices and unfairness. But we are thankful, most certainly, to the fact that Allah was kind to us. It's in Arabic poetry, a book called Mufid ut Talibeen, that "Be kind like how Allah was kind to you." Allah is and was kind, but the poem says "was". Poetry has it's own style. Anyhow, it's important to pass on the gratitude and kindness.
I could blab on forever so I'll cut it short here .:X
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
Oh snacklegs again!!
What happened to that running tiger in her siggy? Now I feel more her absence ):
Very interesting topic, life with all it's beautiness and problems is the bridge to reach the afterlife. Everything nice in this life is a sign for the greatness of Allah where we have to ponder over and always think about that supreme ability. So, I see this life as a grace because it leads to the afterlife. We can't ignore life easily as I am seeing it the class we learn at.
At the same time we should think further than this life to be as our ultimate goal because it's not really our final destination.
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