hmm this been approved late? anyway i would like some comments
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله تعالى وبركاته
This might of been discussed before!!
Since the bible state that there is another prophet upcoming. Why don't the christians follow the prophet mentioned in the bible, that is supposed to follow after Moses (On whom be peace)?
''According to the Bible, God said to Moses (on whom be peace): I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. (The Holy Bible, New International Version, Deuteronomy ch 18, verse 18).
The Prophet described in the above verse must have the following three characteristics;
1) He will be like Moses 2) will come from the brothers of the Israelites, ie the Ishmaelites. 3) God will put His words in the mouth of that prophet and he will declare what God commanded him. Let us see which prophet God was speaking of.
I. The Prophet like Moses-> Some people feel that this prophecy refers to the prophet Jesus, (on whom be peace). But, although Jesus (on whom be peace) was truly a prophet of God, he is not the prophet spoken of here. He was born miraculously. On the other hand, Muhammad (peace be upon him) is more like Moses (on whom be peace); both were born in a natural way and both died natural deaths.
2. From among the Ishmaelites -> Abraham (on whom be peace) had two sons, Ishmael (on whom be peace) and Isaac (on whom be peace) (genesis, ch 21). Ishmael (on whom be peace) became the grandfather of the Arab nation, and Isaac became the grandfather of the Jewish nation. The prophet spoken of was to come not from among the Jews themselves, but from among their brothers, the Ishmaelites. Muhammad (peace be upon him) a descendant of Ishmael, is indeed that prophet.
3. God will put His words in his mouth- "Neither the content of the revelation, nor its form, were of Muhammad's devising. Both were given by the angel and Mohammad's task was only to repeat what he heard." (World Religions from Ancient History to the Present, by Geoffrey Parrinder, p. 472). God sent the angel Gabriel (on whom be peace) to teach Muhammad (peace be upon him) the exact words that he should repeat to the people. The words are therefore not his own; they did not come from his own thoughts, but were put into his mouth by the angel. These are written down in the Qur'an word for word exactly as they came from God. Now that we know thaat prophet we must listen to him, for, according to the Bible, God says: "I will punish anyone who refuses to obey him" (Good News Bible, Deut. 18:19).''
Do you christians believe that prophet is Jesus(on whom be peace)?? Or are you waiting for another prophet the of the description to appear?
peace
hmm this been approved late? anyway i would like some comments
Last edited by Mikayeel; 01-20-2008 at 10:09 PM.
There is the same topic in refutations
hola Hamada,
the verse you are referring to is part of a larger narrative about how the early Israelite community would be governed in their covenant with God. they are told God's laws, and then they are told that God will continue to speak through prophets to them.
that specific verse deals with the latter issue. the word is not 'brethren' in the fraternal sense but rather with the connotation of 'countrymen,' so prophets would be raised within the nation of israel and not outside of it. furthermore, muslim scholars seem to make too much of the relationship between ishmael and isaac. they two were brothers... their descendants are not. while the bible talks occasionally about arab peoples and indicates that the israelites have a distant relationship to them (just like the canaanites, children of Ham) they are not considered brothers in any sense of the word.
the prophet spoken of in that passage was actually Joshua, who was raised to lead Israel immediately following Moses (who acknowledged him as his successor). Joshua was a great leader from among the Israelites, a very similar man to Moses (which is why he completed his work) who conquered Canaan and lead the people of Israel into the land promised them by God.
following Joshua there were many prophets (Nevi) raised up by God in like manner, from among the people and very similar in purpose and manner to the prophets who came before them, they include but are not limited to the judges, samuel, isaiah, jeremiah, ezekiel, hosea, joel, amos, obadiah, jonah, micah, nahum, habakkuk, zephaniah, haggai, zecheriah, malachi, john the baptist.
we are not awaiting another prophet. there is no new public revelation after the death of the last apostle, Jesus said on the cross that it had been accomplished. we now only wait for his return.
que Dios te bendiga
Hola Jaydaformat_quote Originally Posted by Jayda
thanks for the extended answer, it answered my question of the christian view of these verses, thanks for ur effort
que Dios te bendiga
de nada Hamada,
gracias for your interest
Duet 17:14-15format_quote Originally Posted by Hamada
14 “When you come to the land which the LORD your God is giving you, and possess it and dwell in it, and say, ‘I will set a king over me like all the nations that are around me,’ 15 you shall surely set a king over you whom the LORD your God chooses; one from among your brethren you shall set as king over you; you may not set a foreigner over you, who is not your brother
So the brother of the levites are the Israelites they are not going to pick an Ishamelite.
Jesus is like Moses. Both gave covenents. Moses gave the law . Jesus gave us grace.
When both were small both had kings that were chasing them,
It was God who put words into Jesus' (john 14:9)
Oke thanks for your answer... I dont understand what do you mean by it was god who put words into jesus(peace be upon him) i thought u believe god was Jeses him self?
The pinnacle or apex of a cone or a pyramid is lenght breath & height at same time. The height is the pinnacle, the lenght is the pinnacle and the width is the pinnacle. The pinnacle is lenght, the pinnacle is breath, the pinncale us height.
God is the Father, God is Jesus and God is te Holy Spirit. The Father is God, Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God.
Hope this helps.
If you connect John 14:9 to John 10:30 it shows you that Jesus and God are one.format_quote Originally Posted by john316
John 8:57-58
57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, "I am who I am . This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.' "
I tell you what confuses me, Muslims say the Bible is corrupted, yet you seem to find quotes which would point to Mohammed being mentioned, can somebody shed light on this please? :¬S
I must admit that I have wondered about this too.format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
The general message by Muslims seems to be that the Bible has been corrupted and that therefore its message cannot be trusted ... yet that doesn't seem to stop many Muslims from using Bible quotes which apparently support the 'Muslim argument'.
Seems to me that either something is trustworthy, or it isn't ... you can't pick and choose and have it both ways ...
how are jesus and god one when u say jesus is the son of god...?...
gosh christianity is confuuusing.
that which is obvs for me nd u, isnt for othersformat_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim, but hmm i hope more people will come towards the path of the truth..
The same path that lead many to the light..
If most but knew
^^^ yeah...inshallah they open there heart to the truth...
Muslims believe the Original bible of Barnbas, (Barnbas) being an actual companion of christ to be the most correct version.. With christianity as it should be. Jesus never wanted christianity for man kind he was merely sent to his people (jews)
'I have not been sent except to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.' (Matthew 15:24)[1]1]. Hence every one of the famous twelve disciples of Jesus was an Israelite Jew. The one biblical passage where Jesus is supposed to have told his disciples to 'Go and preach unto all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.' (Matthew 28:19), commonly quoted to prove the Gentile mission as well as the Trinity, is not found in any pre-sixteenth century manuscript and is thus considered 'a pious fraud'.
whereas prophet Mohammed SAS was sent to all of man-kind!
anyhow I have extracted these from another forum, as I am not in the mood for a long winded debate and believe both are exquisite and do a fine job
cheers
My degree is in (Christian) Theology and Religious Studies. I graduated in 1992. Back then, this was the general gist of textual scholarship on the New Testament. As far as I know, it hasn't changed radically.
The Hebrew Bible is a much larger corpus, and more varied, so I'll leave that for another time.
The four gospels were not written by Matthew, Mark, etc - the fourth gospel, John, for example, dates from around 90CE. In fact, each of the gospels is most probably derived from a number of oral sources. Christians who concur with this still claim that the gospels are valid revelations because they were written by people inspired by the Holy Spirit. But as we have no idea precisely who authored them - that claim is a matter of faith.
Around half the letters attributed to Paul were not written by him. They might be, perhaps, rewrites based on original letters.
The oldest copy of the New Testament (or parts of) date from about the 4th century.Here is an example of fundamental discrepancy in the Bible. If the Bible wasn’t corrupt then these mistakes would not be in the Bible. There are numerous amounts of discrepancies in the Bible which I do not have time to explain or write. But I shall try and give an outlook to many flaws as possible. The following material may offend or upset some but they are contained in the Bible.
CONTRADICTIONS IN THE BIBLE
Compiled By; Donald Morgan
1. Error in the Book of God?
[Isaiah 37] and [2 Kings 19] are identical word for word. Yet they have been attributed to two different authors, centuries apart, and it is claimed to have been inspired by God. How is this possible?
2. God repents or not?
How can Num. 23:19, which says God doesn't repent, be reconciled with Ex. 32:14, which clearly says he does?
3. Can man see God or not?
How can Ex. 33:20, which says no man can see God's face and live, be squared with Gen. 32:30, which says a man saw God's face and his life was preserved?
4. All sins or not?
Rom. 3:23 says "all have sinned." All means all. Yet, Gen. 6:9 says Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations. Job 1:1 & 1 :8 say Job was perfect. How could these men have been perfect if all have sinned?
5. God or the Devil?
"And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah." [2 Samuel 24:1]
"And SATAN stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel." [1 Chronicles 21:1]
How could Moses have written the first five books in the Bible (the Pentateuch) when his own death and burial are described in Deut. 34:5-6 ("So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab ... and he buried him in a valley. ...")?
BIBLICAL VULGARITIES & OBSCENITIES
Note: What is and what is not vulgar or obscene is, of course, an individual matter. By current Christian standards, however, the verses that follow would likely be considered inappropriate, if not vulgar or obscene, were they in any setting other than the Bible.
Graphic description of sex
"Yet she multiplied her *****doms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt. For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses." (Ezekiel 23: 19-21)
"and lusted after her paramours there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose emission was like that of stallions." (Ezekiel 23: 21, NRSV)
Comment: The story of the sister *****s, Aholah and Aholibah gives a moral lesson against the sins of the flesh. But why does god have to describe their adventures in such pornographic detail? What parent would want their children reading verse 21 about comparing the size of men's penis?
DT 28:15, 30 If you do not obey the voice of the Lord, the Lord will cause another man to "lie with" your wife-to-be.
IS 20:2-4 The Lord himself apparently commands his servant to go naked for three years.
JG 19:22-29 A group of sexual depraved men beat on the door of an old man's house demanding that he turn over to them a male house guest. Instead, the old man offers his virgin daughter and his guest's concubine (or wife): "Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine; let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do with them what seems good to you; but against this man do not do so vile a thing." The man's concubine is ravished and dies. The man then cuts her body into twelve pieces and sends one piece to each of the twelve tribes of Israel.
Eat Human Feces!
(Ezekie14:12-13) "And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. And the LORD said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them."
Comment: One wonders what value, nutritional or moral, it would serve the people to eat human feces with their bread, as God ordered. Note, God here has also ordered, the voyeuristic-like observation of the faeces coming out man. How many Christians and Jews realize that these verses are in the Bible.
Eating Dung And Drinking Piss
(II Kings 18:27) "But Rabshakeh said unto them, Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? Hath he not sent me to the men who sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?"
If you mean the "Gospel of Barnabas" the general consensus among scholars, including muslim ones, is that it is a (late) medieval forgery. Its chances of being the most "correct" are therefore remote.format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
Yes that is the one... it is only a forgery to those who need it to be!format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
One of the brothers who started Al-ahram newspaper Beshara and Saleem Teqla, both maronite catholics by the way, has written quite an interesting article about the fraud in the church trying to cover up the origin of that bible...I commend him for not losing his reporter integrity in the face of what could undermine his entire religion .. thus, I say, try not to write in that authoritative and magisterial manner on matters that are completely over your head again, at least keep them as far as 'christians' are concerned and don't speak on behalf of the Muslim scholars!
p.s: I truly am not in the mood for you today...
cheers
The overwhelming weight of evidence and of informed scholastic opinion is that it is a medieval forgery, as I said. I'm afraid "it is only genuine for those who need it to be" is rather nearer the mark.format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
Is that really the best you can do?thus, I say, try not to write in that authoritative and magisterial manner on matters that are completely over your head again, at least keep them as far as 'christians' are concerned and don't speak on behalf of the Muslim scholars!I wasn't talking about "the Muslim scholars" by the way, I was talking about scholars in the field who happen to be muslim but don't let the fact compromise their academic judgement. Not the same thing at all. The only serious academic debate is whether the Italian or Spanish version came first.
Oh, dear. Well, just ignore me, then.p.s: I truly am not in the mood for you today...
^^ ignoring you is a good idea..
here is the truth about the gospel for those interested, and there is a consensus among scholars and historians with academic integrity, that the church only kept with its old tricks of burning books that don't agree with its Grecian fairy tales...
and here is an interesting read though I have only skimmed through it..Barnabas was a highly decorated missionary in the Sect of the
Nazarenes, and he had been appointed by the Elders in Jerusalem to head a branch of the Movement in Antioch. Since he was an old good friend of Paul's, he went to Tarsus looking for Paul to come over to Antioch to help Barnabas with the job in the Nazarene Synagogue of Antioch. This was about 30 years after Jesus' death. After a year only in Antioch
the disciples started being called Christians because Paul was preaching that Jesus was Christ, had resurrected and would return. (Acts 11:26) Barnabas, in spite of his friendship with Paul did
not agree with Paul's gospel. Therefore, Barnabas wrote also
a gospel about the real Jesus of Nazareth without all the Pauline paraphernalia about Jesus. So, in 325 of our common era, at the Council of Nicene banned the Gospel of Barnabas
http://books.google.com/books?id=CrD...CqOdtQ#PPP1,M1
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