Sikhism

format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor

Brother i have read the Kuran, and i have no issues with what is written. - I like discussions, The Gurus had discussions, Mohammed did and so did Jesus. What annoys me is when we're attacked our or scriptures are verbally.

Religion is prescribed by the Lord and we should try to understnad each other rather then get our pitchforks out when we don't see eye to eye

Sat Shri Akal

Who's attacking you?

I was talking about my parents friend in this situation

It seems you know something I dont about what makes Siki the truth

Religion is perscribed by the Lord - but worship to him in any, which way we seem fit is Not perscribed.

Just like you wouldnt be allowed to work without guidlines or rules. God would not ask us to worship Him without rules and guidlines either.

Discussion is fine. Understanding is one thing and seeing eye to eye is another. i agree we should understand what the other is talking about. but understanding your point of view does not mean I have to understand that it is correct.
I can understand why you are proud to be Sikh, but i cant understand why you which to disobey God's command, or how you cant see the clarity of my point of view.

Just as you cannot understand how God would not allow one of his prophets to change His (Allah's) decree.
Or how you cannot understand how a revelation memorised by thousands of people could be altered to include something against God's decree.
Or how you cant understand the hypocrisy in the Sikhi doctrine abolishing most of God's previous commandments (Empty rituals) - yet claims to be an addition to Gods Decree

But just because I dont agree with your concepts or understand your rationality, dont take it personally. :

format_quote Originally Posted by Hanif_Revert

So for eternity there will be people in reincarnation?

Where is the proof in your book for this?

This is common sense, no? Do you think Allah will decide that animals etc will cease to exist? I think not!

and Greetings,

It seems that we are going slightly off-topic in this thread and that posts are bordering on being disrespectful. Please focus on the discussion at hand and remember to respect other beliefs.

AvarAllahNoor,

I am not sure who deleted the post you referred to about books being written by the Prophets themselves. However, if you are claiming that the Qur'an has been distorted simply because the Prophet (peace be upon him) did not write it himself, then this is unacceptable. First of all, the Prophet (peace be upon him) was illiterate and thus was not capable of writing it, which attests to the divinity of the Qur'an: a book that could not be produced by an illiterate person. Secondly, the Qur'an has not only been preserved in text, but more importantly, in the hearts of men. It does not matter who wrote it first; what is important is how it was preserved.

The issue about shi'ahs is also invalid, as has been explained earlier, therefore it would be appreciated if this was not repeatedly stated. Not all shi'as believe the Qur'an was changed, and even if some do, their views do not constitute the mainstream Islamic view based upon factual evidence.

Peace.

format_quote Originally Posted by Muhammad

and Greetings,

It seems that we are going slightly off-topic in this thread and that posts are bordering on being disrespectful. Please focus on the discussion at hand and remember to respect other beliefs.

AvarAllahNoor,

I am not sure who deleted the post you referred to about books being written by the Prophets themselves. However, if you are claiming that the Qur'an has been distorted simply because the Prophet (peace be upon him) did not write it himself, then this is unacceptable. First of all, the Prophet (peace be upon him) was illiterate and thus was not capable of writing it, which attests to the divinity of the Qur'an: a book that could not be produced by an illiterate person. Secondly, the Qur'an has not only been preserved in text, but more importantly, in the hearts of men. It does not matter who wrote it first; what is important is how it was preserved.

The issue about shi'ahs is also invalid, as has been explained earlier, therefore it would be appreciated if this was not repeatedly stated. Not all shi'as believe the Qur'an was changed, and even if some do, their views do not constitute the mainstream Islamic view based upon factual evidence.

Peace.

Then brother what is the purpose of going around in circles? all questions have been asnwered. It's ok ofr oters to say as they please in regard to Sikhi, but when i say it then it's seen as an attack. I SAY ONCE AGAIN, SIKHI is not a fabricated religion, neither is Islam. BUT people who distort verses from Guru Granth Shaib, and then use them to justify ludicrious claims, will be met by the same. - Sikhi is not here to step on amyone's toes but a revelation of Allah, believe it ro not it's here to stay!

Respect, and you shall get respect in return!

Greetings,

format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor

Then brother what is the purpose of going around in circles? all questions have been asnwered. It's ok ofr oters to say as they please in regard to Sikhi, but when i say it then it's seen as an attack. I SAY ONCE AGAIN, SIKHI is not a fabricated religion, neither is Islam. BUT people who distort verses from Guru Granth Shaib, and then use them to justify ludicrious claims, will be met by the same. - Sikhi is not here to step on amyone's toes but a revelation of Allah, believe it ro not it's here to stay!

Respect, and you shall get respect in return!

I am sorry, I have not been following this thread very closely recently, so I don't really know what has been said. It is not ok for others to offend your religion, and if they do so, then please use the 'report a post' facility and we shall deal with the situation.

I would like to point out that as Muslims, we do not believe that Allaah revealed the religion of Sikhism, but we respect that you believe that it was divinely revealed. I say this because your reference to 'Allaah' implies a connection with Muslim belief, so I just wish to mark a differentiation.

Peace .

format_quote Originally Posted by Muhammad

Greetings,

I am sorry, I have not been following this thread very closely recently, so I don't really know what has been said. It is not ok for others to offend your religion, and if they do so, then please use the 'report a post' facility and we shall deal with the situation.

I would like to point out that as Muslims, we do not believe that Allaah revealed the religion of Sikhism, but we respect that you believe that it was divinely revealed. I say this because your reference to 'Allaah' implies a connection with Muslim belief, so I just wish to mark a differentiation.

Peace .

Thankyou brother for your kind words.- We don't require muslims to believe Sikhism to be revealed by Allah, because we know it is. And that's all we rely on.

Gur Fateh

YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah,

and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things.

Now, this is proof that Sikhism is the religion revealed by God. Sikhs have the Khalsa, which is arabic for pure. - It states in the Kuran.


Khalsa Akal Purakh ki Fauj


The blue print of The Khalsa defined by first Sikh Guru Nanak, was given a formal, unique and unprecedented position by the tenth Sikh Guru, Guru Gobind Singh. Guru Nanak defined Khalsa as 'TRUTH 'TRUTH god's OWN ARMY' to the holy crusaders. Eternal KHALSA Crusaders, eternally pitted against nothing but Falsehood in endless battle. The rules & ethics of the battle being , based on nothing but charity, love & service to human beings. The constitution of the KHALSA being universal Guru, Satgur Granth sahib.

This brings unprecedented responsibilities and duties that need to be fulfilled by the Khalsa. If the Khalsa is Akal Purakh's fauj or army then the duties of the Khalsa is to serve the Almighty and the entire people of the world. This concept is all encompassing and cannot be used in a narrow sense to refer to the duties of the Khalsa to a small sect or elite group. The Khalsa must serve the wider world community and that is the goal set by the Gurus. If the Khalsa fails to serve this wider goal, it will be lacking in its duties to their Guru.


Guru Gobind Singh has very clearly set the mission for the Sikhs to tread this unique path. The Khalsa is to serve all the peoples of the World – only then can it be Akal Purakh ki Fauj. When the Khalsa starts serving the needs of a few, it will fail in its duties as set out by Guru Gobind Singh.

ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾ ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੀ ਫ਼ੌਜ ॥
khhaalasaa akaal purakh ki fauj ||
Khalsa is God's Army



ਪ੍ਰਗਟਿਓ ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਤਮ ਕੀ ਮੌਜ ॥
pragattiou khhaalasaa pramaatham kee mauj ||
It's sustained by the Will of the Almighty


Your (real) friends are (no less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who establish regular prayers and regular charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship).

Sikhs do this.

This is referring to believers, i.e. Muslims.

format_quote Originally Posted by Tayyaba

This is referring to believers, i.e. Muslims.

He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah,

It says with the believers, not just the believers.

I wont attempt to interpret, itd be wrong if i said something incorrect.

Greetings AvarAllahNoor,

The verses in question are:

O you who believe! Whoever from among you turns back from his religion (Islam), Allah will bring a people whom He will love and they will love Him; humble towards the believers, stern towards the disbelievers, fighting in the way of Allah, and never fearing the blame of the blamers. That is the grace of Allah which He bestows on whom He wills. And Allah is All-Sufficient for His creatures' needs, All-Knower.

Verily, your Protector is Allah, His Messenger, and the believers, those who perform the Salah, and give Zakah, and they bow down.

And whosoever takes Allah, His Messenger, and those who have believed, as protectors, then the party of Allah will be the victorious.

[Qur'an, 5:54-56]

format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor

Now, this is proof that Sikhism is the religion revealed by God. Sikhs have the Khalsa, which is arabic for pure. - It states in the Kuran.

The verses that you quoted do not support this argument in any way, as is clear from the context. In fact, this is clear from the Qur'an as a whole. Many verses can be mentioned here; verses about Allaah perfecting Islam, naming us Muslims, accepting only Islam, about the finality of Prophethood and being the best nation raised up for mankind. And we haven't even looked at hadeeth, yet already so many contradictions to what you have asserted.


But looking at the verse, what gives the impression that it is referring to a whole new religion? It is simply threatening to replace the believers with another people if they revert from Islam. If we look to a source that actually has some credibility, such as a scholar of Islam and exegete of the Noble Qur'an, Ibn Kathir says:

Allah emphasizes His mighty ability and states that whoever reverts from supporting His religion and establishing His Law, then Allah will replace them with whomever is better, mightier and more righteous in Allah's religion and Law. Allah said in other Ayat,

(And if you turn away, He will exchange you for some other people and they will not be your likes.) and,

(Do you not see that Allah has created the heavens and the earth with truth If He will, He can remove you and bring (in your place) a new creation! And for Allah that is not hard or difficult.)[14:19-20]. Verily this is not difficult or hard on Allah. Allah said here,

(O you who believe! Whoever from among you turns back from his religion...) and turns back from the truth to falsehood, from now until the commencement of the Last Hour.

Your (real) friends are (no less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who establish regular prayers and regular charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship).


Sikhs do this.

Sikhs might give charity and pray, but that does not mean they worship Allaah and take Muhammad (peace be upon him) as a Prophet. Going back to Ibn Kathir:

(those who perform the Salah, and give the Zakah...) referring to the believers who have these qualities and establish the prayer, which is one of the most important pillars of Islam, for it includes worshipping Allah alone without partners. They pay Zakah, which is the right of the creation and a type of help extended to the needy and the poor...

(and they bow down,) means, they attend the prayer in congregation in Allah's Masjids and spend by way of charity on the various needs of Muslims.

Peace.

do sikhs believe in the devil, and if so, is it similar to the muslim concept of shaitan, or different?
hope this hasn't been asked 100,641 times already.

format_quote Originally Posted by ultimate truth

Sikhs believe in one God. they worship that God alone. they do recognise muhammad as a being a messenger of God, but do not follow his path. Guru Gobind Singh Ji speaks of muhammads coming to the earth, but where his mission was not complete. he then goes on to say how Guru Gobind Singh ji has come to preach the word of God, and God only.

I think this is probably where i get confused with sikh theology so maybe you can clarify insha'allah

If sikhs accept muhammed PBUH as a prophet, what does that mean. Surely God only chooses perfect people as prophets, one he knows would do the job properly and not disobey god and fabricate blatant lies.

So why did muhammed PBUh say time and time again he is the last prophet
Also why did he say Allah says that Muhammed is the seal of the prophethood. If you believe he is a prophet, you will believe he is truthful, as why would god choose such a liar, God knows the future, I am sure you agree

I await your response