Atheism

format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum

When you say “evolution is not as proved as evolutionists say it is’” it shows your lack of understanding of what a “scientific theory” is. And your equating “evolution = no god”, shows you lack of understanding about evolution. If you deny the hundreds of millions of pieces of evidence and findings of hundreds of thousands great minds that have spent there lives studying the evidence, then surly you mind is so closed that no fresh thought has a chance of entering it.

No I admit that the theory of evolution does not contradict the existence of Allaah (swt), but the theory of evolution contradicts what Islam says about the creation the universe and the creation of the first living humans.

I'm still waiting for you comments on the quotes, especially from evolutionists themselves which put evolution in an embarrasing light, truly showing the theory of evolution for what it is: An excuse for determined atheists to persist in disbelief of Allaah (swt), their Creator.

Those who have studied "the hundreds of millions of pieces of evidence and findings of hundreds of thousands great minds that have spent there lives studying the evidence" what does that prove? If I told you about those who have studied the numerous evidences for Islam, would you accept Islam on that premise of what they have told? For some reason, I doubt you would.

Try stealing something from a monkey and see what reaction you get!

That was the worst "proof" for evolution yet seen. What animal doesn't get angry if yoy steal something from it? Sure if you steal something from a small animal who might be afraid to fight back and defend, it won't show reaction. But if you steal the child from a bear mother, I'm sure she'll react, and that reaction would be quite painful for you, to say the least. So according to your logic, humans would descend from bears?

Abu Omar
You say “theory of evolution contradicts what Islam says about the creation the universe and the creation of the first living humans”. That may be your belief, but it is not mine. So what if there are “evolutionists themselves which put evolution in an embarrassing light”. There are stupid people in every walk of live. Why would I want do defend them. If you discredit a million peaces of information, your job will be less that 1% done.
Your insistence that evolution = no god is obscured. Truly, some who believe in evolution are atheists. But there are many theists that believe in evolution. You make the common judgment error that all people in a group think alike. The only thing that everybody in a group has in common is what you used to group them. That is as silly as saying “all men are the same” when the only thing that all men have in common is that they are men.
What does “studying the evidence" what does that prove”? What a sad question. Should stop all studying and learning? Why did god give us a brain if not to learn?

Anything at all whereby I could say "that was from god - not from my own mind or anywhere else, but definitely from god". Still waiting, sadly

Maybe its because you don't search for God from your heart.

Greetings Abu Omar,

format_quote Originally Posted by Abu Omar

No I admit that the theory of evolution does not contradict the existence of Allaah (swt), but the theory of evolution contradicts what Islam says about the creation the universe and the creation of the first living humans.

I'm still waiting for you comments on the quotes, especially from evolutionists themselves which put evolution in an embarrasing light, truly showing the theory of evolution for what it is: An excuse for determined atheists to persist in disbelief of Allaah (swt), their Creator.

Can you see how you've contradicted yourself there?

That was the worst "proof" for evolution yet seen. What animal doesn't get angry if yoy steal something from it? Sure if you steal something from a small animal who might be afraid to fight back and defend, it won't show reaction. But if you steal the child from a bear mother, I'm sure she'll react, and that reaction would be quite painful for you, to say the least. So according to your logic, humans would descend from bears?

First of all, my comment was not a proof. Secondly, I was talking about morality, not evolution. Perhaps if you had read the posts leading up to it you would know this.

My point was made in answer to the suggestion that morality cannot exist without belief in god, which some people use to go on to assert that atheists are therefore amoral / immoral / evil.

I believe that animals may have a primitive understanding of morality, but do they believe in god?

Greetings Ansar,

format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl

But given the opportunity, do you think a monkey would refrain from stealing an item that would provide it with immediate benefit if there was no risk of being caught?

Probably not, since it has an overwhelming instinct for survival. Don't forget that there are some (many?) humans who would also steal in that situation.

How do you explain the presence of moral sense amongst human beings in contrast to the animal instincts of other species?

I believe animals may have a moral sense, just as we do, although theirs may not be as highly developed as ours, corresponding to the fact that their brains are not as highly developed as ours. Similarly, humans share many instincts with animals: survival, hunger, sex and so on.

Humans are animals; I don't see how there can be any doubt about this.

Peace

Greetings Pagal Kuri,

format_quote Originally Posted by Pagal Kuri

Maybe its because you don't search for God from your heart.

I've never understood this kind of talk. My heart is an organ for pumping blood - how can I search with it?

Peace

Watch htis movie about THE COLLAPSE OF EVOLUTION


http://www.harunyahya.com/m_video_de...hp?api_id=1245

If you know, then it is not faith, is it?

format_quote Originally Posted by Rehmat

That's funny!

Dr. Keith Moore, Professor of Anatomy and Chairman of the Department, Faculty of Medicine, at the University of Toronto, 1982 staes that "the study of how the human embryo develops in the mother’s womb could not progress significantly without the use of microscopes. Microscopes were not invented until the 17th century CE, and were not used in this field of study until the 18th century. Therefore, when I studied certain statements in the Qur’an on this subject, I was amazed at the scientific accuracy of these statements which were made in the 7th century CE."

Professor Moore was refering to Qur'anic verse 39:6, which states that Allah made us in the wombs of our mothers in stages.

The realization that the embryo develops in stages in the uterus was not discussed or illustrated until the 15th century CE. The staging of human embryos was not proposed until the 1940’s, and the stages used nowadays were not adopted worldwide until a few years ago.

So, how did the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) knew this scientic discovery 1400 years ago? Even if one FOOL himself that the Prophet (pbuh) was a "Rocket scientist"

Iv read that up as well , Many scientist are actually converting to islam because its very hard to disporve the exsistence of God with all his creations surrounding us!!

Greetings,

format_quote Originally Posted by Tagrid

then how come the 'love' that you have for people comes from the heart

That's a figure of speech which is actually nonsensical - the emotion of love has its origin in the brain.

and anyways i still didnt get an answer for a few of my questions on the previous page

Which questions haven't been answered? Have a look at the link I gave in post #456 of this thread for my view of the development of theism as a backbone to morality.

Greetings Muslims Soldier,

How did the big bang take place?

I'm not a physicist, so I'll refer you a more knowledgable authority:

Big Bang

Peace

http://www.refcm.org/RICDiscussions/...everywhere.htm

Well, atheists, please comment on the following:

Abu Hanifa
Once Imam Abu Hanifa was called to a debate with some freethinkers and atheists and there was a time set for this debate.

When the time of the debate was about to start, the freethinkers were in a particular place before an assembly of people. Imam Abu Hanifa was very late from the agreed upon time. The attendees awaited him until they ere unable to stand or bear more and the freethinkers started to boast amongst themselves of their claims of rejecting the existence of Allah (Exalted and Dignified be He). They took from the absence of Imam Abu Hanifa from the agreed time, as a proof of his inability to prove what he claimed.

While the boasting of the atheists was about to reach its climax and the annoyance of the attendees from the late of the Imam was about to reach its peak, Imam Abu Hanifa arrived. He immediately begged the attendees to excuse him, claiming that he was supposed to attend in time, saying ‘I was on the opposite bank of the Tigris river and I did not find a boat to bring me across the river. So I was obliged to await more time but I did not find any boat. When I was despondent about finding a boat to transfer me to the opposite bank of the river I was about to return to my house. But from a far distance, I saw some wooden boards coming towards me on their own (without any sailor). When these boards came near me, they began to organize themselves until they form a beautiful boat so I mounted it, crossed the river and came to you.

Therefore, all freethinkers said, do you mock us O Abu Hanifa?! Is it not logical that the wooden boards can come to you on their own as you have descried and form themselves a boat?! He said, this is what you have gathered to argue with me. If you do not accept that the boards can make themselves into a boat, so, how do you claim that this well-knitted and marvelous world, with heaven, earth, Man and animal, created itself and its creation happed haphazardly without a creator?!. Therefore, the freethinkers were unable to pronounce any word or give any proclaim their (return) to Islam at the hands of Abu Hanifa (may Allah be pleased with him).

The Bedouin
Once a bedouin was asked about the evidence to Allah's existence, he responded, "All praise is due to Allah! The camel's dung testifies to the existence of the camel, and the track testifies to the fact that someone was walking. A sky that holds the giant stars, a land that has fairways and a sea that has waves, does not all of this testify that the Most Kind, Most Knowledgeable exists''

Why are you so silent when I post these?

Greetings,

format_quote Originally Posted by Tagrid

if that is what it is then they should be drawing a 'brain' in between i and you....not a heart

That's right - pesky cartoonists and their ignorance of biology...

So what does this actually mean in terms of our discussion? When someone says "you've got to search for god with your heart" do they actually mean "with your brain"?

Peace

Greetings,

format_quote Originally Posted by Abu Omar

Well, atheists, please comment on the following: ...
Why are you so silent when I post these?

Probably because they've been brought up many times before. What you've got there are anecdotal versions of the argument from design and the argument from causation.

These are very old arguments, and they only generally convince people who are already theists.

If you have a look through this and other threads on the existence of god you should be able to find several discussions of them.

Peace