Biological Evolution – An Islamic Perspective

**Ansar Al-'Adl** · 09-25-2005

http://islamtoday.com/showme2.cfm?ca...sub_cat_id=792
Biological Evolution – An Islamic Perspective| Prepared by the Research Committee of IslamToday.net under the supervision of Sheikh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turayrî|

Many Muslims wonder about the theory of biological evolution – the theory that living species on Earth today are descended from others in the past, and that the present diversity of living species we see is a result of descent with modification over the course of numerous generations.

Muslims also wonder about one of the main processes that evolutionary theory proposes to explain how evolution takes place – the process of natural selection. This is the idea that the individuals within a populations of living organism vary in their individual traits – they are not exactly alike – and that the organisms which are most successful at leaving descendants will pass on their unique traits to the next generation at the expense of the traits possessed by less successful organisms in the population, thereby contributing to a long-term gradual change in the suite of traits found within the population.

We as Muslims must ask:

Does the theory of evolution – and likewise the theory of natural selection as a mechanism of evolution – conform to Islamic teachings or conflict with them?

Is a Muslim allowed to believe in evolution as a scientific theory as long as he or she accepts that Allah is behind it?

Can a Muslim believe in human evolution? If not, how can we explain the fossils of upright, bipedal, tool-using apes with large brains that have been discovered?

To start with, we wish to emphasize that our concern here is not with examining the scientific merits of the theory of evolution. What we want to know is what Islamic teachings have to say about the idea. Whether evolution is true or false scientifically is another matter altogether.

When we look at the sources of Islam – the Qur’ân and Sunnah – we see that, with respect to human beings living on the Earth today, they are all descendants of Adam and Eve.

Allah also says: “O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honorable of you with Allah is the one who is the most God-fearing.” [Sûrah al-Hujûrât:13]

The Prophet (peace be upon him) identified the "male" mentioned in this verse as being Adam. He said: “Human beings are the children of Adam and Adam was created from Earth. Allah says: ‘O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honorable of you with Allah is the one who is the most God-fearing’.” [Sunan al-Tirmidhî (3270)]

We also see that Allah created Adam directly without the agency of parents.

Allah says: “The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: ‘Be’ and he was.” [Sûrah Âl `Imrân: 59]

We also know that Eve was created from Adam without the agency of parents.

In the Qur’ân, Allah states clearly: “O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord Who created you from a single soul and from it created its mate and from them twain hath spread abroad a multitude of men and women.” [Sûrah al-Nisâ’: 1]

Therefore, the Qur’ân tells us that Adam and his wife were the father and mother of all human beings living on the Earth today. We know about this by way of direct revelation from Allah.

The direct creation of Adam (peace be upon him) can neither be confirmed nor denied by science in any way. This is because the creation of Adam (peace be upon him) was a unique and singular historical event. It is a matter of the Unseen and something that science does not have the power to confirm or deny. As a matter of the Unseen, we believe it because Allah informs us about it. We say the same for the miracles mentioned in the Qur’ân. Miraculous events, by their very nature, do not conform to scientific laws and their occurrence can neither be confirmed nor denied by science.

What about other living things, besides the human beings living on the Earth today? What about plants, animals, fungi, and the like?

When we turn our attention to this question, we find that the Qur’ân and Sunnah do not tell us much about the flora and fauna that was present on the Earth before or at the time of Adam and Eve’s arrived upon it. The sacred texts also do not tell us how long ago Adam and Eve arrived upon the Earth. Therefore, these are things we cannot ascertain from the sacred texts.

The only thing that the Qur’ân and Sunnah require us to believe about the living things on Earth today is that Allah created them in whatever manner He decided to do create them.

Allah says: “Allah is the Creator of all things and over all things He has authority.” [Sûrah al-Zumar: 62]

Indeed, Allah states specifically that He created all life forms: “And We made from water all living things.” [Sûrah al-Anbiyâ’: 30]

We know that “Allah does what He pleases.” Allah can create His creatures in any manner that He chooses.

Therefore, with respect to other living things, the Qur’ân and Sunnah neither confirm nor deny the theory of biological evolution or the process referred to as natural selection. The question of evolution remains purely a matter of scientific enquiry. The theory of evolution must stand or fall on its own scientific merits – and that means the physical evidence that either confirms the theory or conflicts with it.

The role of science is only to observe and describe the patterns that Allah places in His creation. If scientific observation shows a pattern in the evolution of species over time that can be described as natural selection, this is not in itself unbelief. It is only unbelief for a person to think that this evolution took place on its own, and not as a creation of Allah. A Muslim who accepts evolution or natural selection as a valid scientific theory must know that the theory is merely an explanation of one of the many observed patterns in Allah’s creation.

As for the fossil remains of bipedal apes and the tools and artifacts associated with those remains, their existence poses no problem for Islamic teachings. There is nothing in the Qur’ân and Sunnah that either affirms or denies that upright, brainy, tool using apes ever existed or evolved from other apelike ancestors. Such animals may very well have existed on Earth before Adam’s arrival upon it. All we can draw from the Qur’ân and Sunnah is that even if those animals once existed, they were not the forefathers of Adam (peace be upon him).

And Allah knows best.

**Abdul Fattah** · 08-16-2006

Sister As far as I know our DNA does not keep a record of the diseases we have. I suspect you might have picked this idea up when reading about endogenous retro virus (=ERV). This is how it works, when a cell devides, sometimes there's a mix up. When you happen to be carrying a virus at that moment, the virus might get mixed up in your DNA. But this doesn't happen everytime your sick. Then if a virus embeds itself in a cell located in your upper right arm, then that cell, and all it's copies that are later made, will have that same virus present in it, however you do not pass this on to your children. You can only pass on this ERV, when a virus embeds himself in the very eggcell (or spermcell in a man's case) that will create your child.

**Curaezipirid** · 08-20-2006

I heard an Australian ABC radio science show broadcast that affirmed that our DNA contains the DNA of every previous Human disease.

This could be checked out through the ABC Science Show web site. I think that the broadcast I heard was before Easter in 2001.

It is because of Allah's miracle of Qur'an that we are able to bear with such diseases in our DNA without the RNA reading the protien sequences of, and I believe that this is an important fact of science.

**Abdul Fattah** · 01-18-2007

Originally Posted by root

Now, creationists could do some actual research and test whether ERVs are associated with transcription areas. That is, do ERVs always or most often appear just before transcription areas? Michael Behe still has a lab and the Discovery Institute has money. Perhaps DI could fund Behe to look at this hypothesis. Bet they don't.[/I][/B]

Hi root
I found something new that is relevant to the whole ERV- random vs. specific insertionpoint debate. Here's a copy paste:

HIV Inserts Into Human Genome Using A DNA-associated Protein

Science Daily — A human DNA-associated protein called LEDGF is the first such molecule found to control the location of HIV integration in human cells, according to a new study from researchers at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine. This study, published in this week's early online edition of Nature Medicine, describes the first clear target for modulating where viruses insert into the human genome, which has implications for better design of gene-therapy delivery. Retroviral vectors are often used to introduce therapeutic genetic sequences into human chromosomes, such as in the delivery of Factor VIII for hemophilia patients.
source: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1128010951.htm

So if aids, which is a retrovirus btw, carries these enzymes with him it's possible and probable that the ERV's were talking about inserted by the same mechanism.

**Curaezipirid** · 01-19-2007

Salams,

Thanks for that info. There are a few other things which spring to mind in respect of.

There is recent research from New Zealand, which was on television here in Australia, and which points the data proving that changes in genetics actually take place over a much shorter time frame than was previously imagined possible.

There is another thing on television here recently, at Christmas, and I love this part the most of all: the genetic engineer research here being done on animal species, has found that it is possible to breed out introduced species by structuring the genetics of pest species so that only males are born. They are working first with the European carp which have caused inordinate damage to Australian waterways. . . .

. . . (if only male fish are born, . . . will only female kafir . . . .? . . . that is, can all male kafir become detected as fishy, rather than human like?)(I believe that there are believers among those researchers somehow.) I know this is a long bow to draw, but for those whom can be certain of when kafr and the consequences, the facts are a simple logic . . . the scientists are proving the prophesies without knowing.

Then I am also thinking about the HIV virus. I know a bloke whom has it but is not especially ill from, after re-committing to Islam. . . .

it is a disease which accompanies a thought stream in which the full comprehension of the inevitable of fulfilling prophesies has been recognised, but in which bodily behaviour has denied that recognition.

The opposite disease is the Lupus type, in which the autoimmune response begins to attack the healthy organism. It is an indicator of having been accepting more than the individual responsiblity into the individual account of comprehension.

However, that general picture of the way in which our genetics are effected by our behaviour is very important to understanding science in Islam. That the health of our Spirit effects our genetic potential through RNA is a fact.

We might not like to know this, since most of us have little or no control in matter of our Spirit, in the circumstance of this world itself being diseased beyond our immediate control. But it is nevertheless the case. We can improve our genetics only be our behaviour, by refusing to act in the paucity of Spirit which society often demands.

Also, all facts which lend belief into developing a science of ablity to immediately improve genetics are very important to Islam and also Christianity and Judaism.

Torah states that it requires eight generations before the sins of our predecessors are having no impact upon our immediate daily health and overall Human potential. Eight is far fewer than modern science would have us believe, which implies that there must be mechanisms by which our genetics can either deteriorate or improve over a really very short space of time.

Think about it like this, if in the next thousand years, all the Prophesies will be realised, then what will our health be like that we will be in mind always in Jannah? How much, or rather how little, will we eat? Will we sustain our body in the physical/carnal world by a little as Jesus is reported to have eaten and feed many from? Living from pure Mana is certainly factually possible for a time, and even for quite a long time, as Torah teaches. As Muslims we can appreciate this fact as a lesson of Ramadan. What is it going to require of our immediate behaviour, that in the following generations, it will be our descendants whom realise the prophesies as believers enabled in health to live as the people of the book have always given evidence to?

I will tell you that I know when I am in good Spirit, I can through prayer alone, in only about five to ten minutes of holding one posture, cause that I can enter into the cardiovascular state of having been working out, with deeper breathing and an altered heart rate. How fast I enter that state is dependant upon how little I have eaten.

Here is one more story from science, and my apology that I have not now ready access to the original research to prove my self with. In artificial insemination work with animals, it has been widely proven that if, for example, a brown female dogs ovuum, are fertilised in a test tube, with a brown male dogs sperm, and then the resultant embryo is placed into a mother dog which is black with white spots, the puppies are very likely to develop into black with white spot pups. Why, if not that our environment in utero can switch certain genetics on and other genetics off?

Surely that idea that many scientists now speak of, of a switch for specific genetics, which might be understood to be the RNA molecules which read from the total available DNA, and determine which DNA is structuring the amino acid sequences in which protiens form, is an idea with which we, as Muslims, might conceive of Prayer functionally being able to "switch" a whole population into a specific frame of mind.

Wasalam

**Abdul Fattah** · 04-24-2007

Which evidence, you got a videorecording of it?

**islamirama** · 05-05-2007

Origin of Life - An Islamic Perspective

Science must increase our faith. It is wrong for anyone to close their eyes to what is right in front of them. For a Muslim the evidence of dinosaurs and fossils is not a threat to our beliefs. Rather, it is a confirmation of the power of Allah.

Adapted from the Book: What Islam is All About By Yahiya Emerick

A. Why Does Allah Tell Us About the Creation?

The Holy Qur'an is the book given to us by the Creator of the Universe. Allah, (literally: THE God) which is His personal Name, knows us best and is aware that humans can be very skeptical creatures.

Allah points out, "...if you were to seek a tunnel into the earth or a ladder into the skies and bring them a sign, (they still wouldn't be convinced.) If it were Allah's will, He could gather them all into true guidance, so don't be among those who are influenced by ignorance." (6:35)

Allah, the Keeper of Wisdom, makes it a point to give as many proofs in the Qur'an about His existence and creative abilities as possible so the maximum number of humans can be guided. We need proof, and Allah gives us that proof. (2:26, 40:57)

Allah, of course, does not need us to follow Him, or believe in Him. As He states, "Allah can do without them and Allah is free of all needs." (64:6)

He merely wishes that people would choose to believe in Him so He can reward them for their choice. Allah is ready to forgive even those who acted wrongly if they but ask for His forgiveness.

In a Hadith, or saying of the Blessed Prophet Muhammad, we learn, "When Allah decreed the creation (of the universe,) He set down in His book which is with Him, 'Indeed, My mercy is stronger than My wrath.'" (Bukhari & Muslim. Also see 6:12)

Among the proofs given in the Qur'an for us to learn from is a very detailed explanation of the different features of the universe, how it was made and how the planets and stars were formed. Allah says that, "To Him is due the origin of space and the Earth." (6:101)

Of course, most people who lived at the Prophet's time would never have understood what those ayat really meant, but they accepted them anyway and interpreted them as best they could. Sometimes they came up with very interesting explanations.

Allah instructs us to accept everything in the Qur'an, even if we don't yet know how to understand it. The understanding of the Qur'an grows with each passing generation. As He said, "The intelligent people declare, 'We believe in the book, the whole of it is from our Lord." (3:7)

B. Modern Science and Islam.

Modern day scientists have been awe-struck at how complex and intricate the universe is. (67:3-4) The sciences of astronomy, chemistry, astrophysics and molecular biology have pushed the limits of our knowledge ever further.

These new discoveries have assisted greatly in the understanding of what the ayat in the Qur'an mean. For example, there is a section of verses where Allah mentions that during the process of human development, there is a stage where we were an 'Alaq in the womb. (96:1-5) The word literally means, "a clinging thing." But no one knew in past centuries how that could be part of the process of growth for a fetus.

So translators, commentators and scholars have tried to explain it as meaning we were clots of blood or other such strange things in the womb. But new discoveries in the last few years have shown that in the early stages of pregnancy, the fertilized egg actually attaches itself to the uterine wall and clings there as it is growing. Thus, modern knowledge unlocks another mystery that previous Muslims could only guess at.

The same thing is true in other areas to quite a startling degree. When we study the ayat of the Qur'an relating to the creation of the universe, we come away astounded, especially since they agree with what we have only discovered in the last ten, twenty and fifty years.

The Qur'an does not give a single, unified essay on how the universe began. Instead, keeping with the Qur'anic method of teaching, different aspects of creation are mentioned in different places in order to give authority to the particular lesson being taught. (See 30:58)

For example, in Surah at Tariq, (86) Allah begins by mentioning the brightest star which appears in the sky at night. Then He describes this star and uses it as a metaphor for how every human has an angel watching over them. Do you see how Allah uses physical aspects of nature to illustrate spiritual principles?

C. The Qur'anic History of Creation.

After we find the references to creation in the Qur'an, then we can piece them together to get a picture of how Allah's revelation explains the beginning. As Muslims, however, we must not forget to look into the lesson taught in each passage. We must remember what the purpose is for including these signs in the Qur'an so we can be enlightened spiritually as well as mentally.

Allah begins by stating that the universe and planet Earth took six "days" to create. (7:54) Now it must be remembered that in Arabic the word Youm can mean a day as we know it, or it can mean any stage or period of time. As Allah points out, a day to him can be a thousand years, fifty thousand years or more. 1

The creation of planets and the Earth took place in the last two periods of time. As Allah states in the Qur'an, "Declare, 'Do you disbelieve in the One Who created the Earth in two stages? Do you make others equal to Him? He is the Lord of all the worlds.'" (41:9)

The process of creation can be summarized as follows: All matter in the universe was compacted together in one place. Then Allah gave the command and it blew apart scattering molecules and gases in all directions. ("The Big Bang.") The force of this initial explosion keeps the universe expanding.

Space was filled with matter, anti-matter and gases which eventually combined into larger particles. These bits of matter eventually grew into asteroids, planets, stars and moons. Each object of inter-stellar space conformed to a set of physical laws which governed the trajectory of their orbits so a regular pattern of rotation could be seen. (21:33, 29:61)

Stars ignited in a fury of radioactive fusion and gave off light and heat which brought warmth to those planets near them. (86:3) Small moons were captured in the orbit of larger planets and came to have a regular orbit around them, often reflecting light from the sun. (54:1-2)

Finally, the planets themselves developed and formed in a variety of ways with fantastic geologic formations and movements both above and below the surface. (27:61)

The planet Earth, in particular, cooled near its outer layers, forming a thin crust made up of plates that moved and grated against each other. (15:19) This allowed the Earth's surface to constantly erase the damage caused by occasional asteroid impacts. But the colliding of the plates also had the side effect of raising tall mountains and exposing the geologic history of the planet.

Escaping gases from the ground and water, warmed in the sunlight, eventually raised to a high altitude where they formed a protective layer. This Ozone Layer shielded out harmful radiation and ultraviolet rays from the sun.

After a time, life was to appear but that is the subject of the next lesson. For now, it is amazing that this scientific narrative is almost exactly the same as what Allah revealed in the Qur'an. Look at the following illustrations showing what happened, what Allah said about it, and the ayat from which they come.

You will be amazed and can only proclaim your wonder at Allah's Revelation. Remember, He mentioned these things to teach us to be believers in Him. If He tells us the truth, we would be fools not to believe in Him. Right?

"Don't they see anything in the functioning of space and the Earth and in all things Allah created?" (7:185)

D. How Can We Know the World Around Us?

As we have learned already, Islamic teachings assume that the Earth and universe are very old. In addition, the Qur'an states clearly that one of the reasons Allah made us intelligent and self-aware, or Sentient, is so that we can discover the wonders of the natural world around us. In short, Allah gave us the mission to investigate what He created.

There is so much we don't know or understand, even about how our own bodies work. With all these fantastic areas of knowledge to pursue, you would think that everyone would recognize their Lord. But some still choose to keep their eyes shut. As Allah says, "He, (Allah,) created humans from a drop of sperm and then the same humans become clear arguers!" (16:4.)

But thankfully, not everyone closes their understanding and the world has many fine examples of great scientists and researchers who also put their trust in Allah.

In our modern world there are so many discoveries in all fields which are giving us a more complete picture of the history of the universe. At the same time, our knowledge of Earth's past is expanding and revealing some surprising results.

E. What Do We Know about the Origins of Life?

Today, scientists tell us that life began in the sea when simple molecules bonded together and became self-replicating, or self-producing. These single-celled organisms, quickly took on the characteristics of what we know as algae.

They received their energy from the sun in a process termed Photosynthesis, and as a result of their activity, new gases formed in the air creating a viable environment for more complex forms of life.

As Muslims we can either accept this theory, reject it or modify it according to what we know in Allah's revelation. As you will remember, we learned that Allah said He created all life from water and raised a protective canopy over the Earth. Allah knows best and all we can do is study, research, test and reflect.

Scientists further tell us that over millions of years, the first organisms blossomed gradually into many different types and shapes, resulting in plant life, plankton, arthropods and simple fishes. Dinosaurs, higher creatures and mammals followed.

F. What is Evolution and Creationism?

These discoveries in themselves are not harmful to a healthy belief in Allah's creative power to make whatever He wills in whatever way He wishes. But some scientists have tried to say that everything in the universe, even life itself, happened all by chance and accident, without any Divine intervention.

The name of this theory is Evolution and its most famous advocate was a man named Charles Darwin (1809-1882). He was an Englishman who lived during the nineteenth century when ..:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com

ffice:smarttags" />Britain ruled most of the world.

He was keenly interested in the origin of life and took a journey around the world to study the plants and animals of Earth. The ship he sailed on was called the HMS Beagle. He spent a particularly long amount of time on the Galapagos Islands, located in the Pacific ocean, examining birds, lizards and giant turtles.

He came to believe that the variety of life in our world was due to what he called "Natural Selection" and "Survival of the Fittest." He wrote his findings in a book entitled, "On the Origin of Species" which he published in 1859.

The book immediately caused a controversy in the Christian world because Christianity taught that God made life in an instant and that Earth was the center of importance in the universe. Christians also felt threatened by Darwin's teachings because they knew it meant he was saying everything happened without needing God. To this day, many Christians still oppose and do battle in court over whether or not these theories should be taught in school.

These Christians advance the counter- idea of Creationism, or God making things all at once, while modern scientists still promote Evolution, or things happening by themselves accidentally, gradually and naturally. The two sides are as far apart as ever.

G. What Do Muslims Believe?

Where do Muslims stand? The answer may surprise you for we can agree with aspects of both sides. Islam teaches us that Allah's creation is vast and beyond our comprehension. We are also taught that the more we explore and learn, the more we will come to believe in Allah. That is the Islamic position.

So we assert without any hesitation that Allah caused the creation of the universe and that He set up the laws for its functioning. As Allah said:

"Behold! In the creation of space and the Earth and in the changing of night into day are indeed signs for people of understanding. Those who remember Allah standing, sitting and lying down, and contemplate the (wonders) of creation in space and the Earth. (They declare,) "Our Lord! You didn't create all of this for nothing. So save us from the punishment of the fire." (3:190-191)

Science, then, must increase our faith. It is wrong for anyone to close their eyes to what is right in front of them. For hundreds of years people have been finding fossils, bones and ancient artifacts which point to a hidden past we don't know much about. Allah even commands us to travel over the Earth and learn from what we see. We humans have now seen much to challenge our understanding!

We know that Earth existed long before the appearance of humans. Allah says, "Wasn't there a long period of time before humans were even mentioned?" (76:1)

We also know from the geologic timetable that the Earth went through many ages before we came here. And in the ayat that mentions this proof of Allah, we are given a very strong clue about the adaptability of life forms to their environment.

Allah said, "Don't you see that Allah sends rain from the sky? With it We produce plants of various colors. And in the mountains are colored layers, white and red of various tones and some black in hue. And so too, among humans and crawling creatures and cattle. They are of various colors. Those among Allah's servants who have knowledge truly fear Him, for Allah is Mighty and Forgiving." (35:27-28)

So while we agree with the Creationists who say Allah made the universe, we disagree with them on how fast it was constructed and that Earth is the only center of focus for the Creator. Allah declares Himself to be the Lord of All the Worlds: Rabb ul Alameen.

Because we do not reject the evidence presented to us by Paleontologists (fossil hunters) and other scientists, we can accept some of what they say, also, about the origins of life on Earth and the existence of dinosaurs and other creatures in the fossil record. However, we read in Allah's book that He caused it to happen and that by studying it we increase our faith in Him. Therefore, we disagree with those who say everything happened without Allah, by mere chance only.

"To Allah belongs the control of space and the Earth and Allah has power over all things." (3:189)

Ours is the middle position even as Allah said we were created to be the middle community: never going to extremes. (2:143) So we don't accept, based on the evidence, the final positions of both sides. Rather, we accept what appears to be true and reject what appears to be false from each. The Qur'an is our standard, our determiner, and it has never let us down, nor will it ever do so.

For a Muslim, then, the evidence of dinosaurs, trilobites and ancient algae is not a threat to our beliefs. Rather, it is a confirmation of the power of Allah. As Allah said, "He has created horses and mules for you to ride and show; and He has created other (creatures) that you don't know." (16:8)

"Allah created every creature from water. Of them are some that creep on their bellies, some that walk on two legs and some that walk on four. Allah creates what He wills for He has power over all things. We have indeed sent signs that make things clear and Allah guides whom He wills to the straight way." (24:45-46)

Who else but Allah could have made such a complex and mysterious universe? (16:40) We must have pity on those who reject the proof of Allah's existence for they will be the losers in the end.

Remember the ayah that was listed before: Allah says, "He, (Allah,) created humans from a drop of sperm and then the same humans become clear arguers!" (16:4.)

Even a miraculous thing such as the fertilization of the egg cannot convince some people to believe in the creative energy of the Creator of the Universe.

Allah asks rhetorically, "Then what message will they believe in after this?" (77:50)

**Hussein radi** · 07-21-2007

I know that evolution is false when it coems to humans, but what about animals. I jsut dont see how animals could of survived an explosion that extincted the dinasors. I try to post this on Basic of Islam, but for some reason there is X mark preventing me from posting thread.

**ranma1/2** · 07-22-2007

Originally Posted by Hussein radi

I know that evolution is false when it coems to humans, but what about animals. I jsut dont see how animals could of survived an explosion that extincted the dinasors. I try to post this on Basic of Islam, but for some reason there is X mark preventing me from posting thread.

know huh?
Well what made the dinosaurs go bye bye is in debate but why other animals survived is pretty simple. They had what was needed to survive.

If food became more limited and you were say smaller and thus needing less food you were more likely to adapt.
As for human evolution. Thats pretty much established through science. Its only when you throw religion in do people get all vain about their origins.

**Abdul Fattah** · 07-22-2007

The evolution of man is not "pretty much established trough science", quite the contrary, it's one of the biggest missing links that exist in the three of descent that common descent implies.

**ranma1/2** · 07-22-2007

Originally Posted by Abdul Fattah

The evolution of man is not "pretty much established trough science", quite the contrary, it's one of the biggest missing links that exist in the three of descent that common descent implies.

Its been pretty much established with dna and fossil evidence.

**Abdul Fattah** · 07-22-2007

I'm sorry Ranma, but that is just false. In the fossil record is still a huge gap, and many alleged links that were suggested as intermediary form have now been found to be unrelated. As for DNA, There also we have no prove at all, we don't even have mechanistic theories explaining evolution of man (from apes).
But you're welcome to prove me wrong.
I'll give you a hint, many of these so called "proofs" have been discussed earlier in this very topic.

**ranma1/2** · 07-23-2007

Originally Posted by Abdul Fattah

I'm sorry Ranma, but that is just false. In the fossil record is still a huge gap, and many alleged links that were suggested as intermediary form have now been found to be unrelated. As for DNA, There also we have no prove at all, we don't even have mechanistic theories explaining evolution of man (from apes).
But you're welcome to prove me wrong.
I'll give you a hint, many of these so called "proofs" have been discussed earlier in this very topic.

there will always be gaps. There are billions of transitions. I sincerly suggest reading about evolution. Perhaps go to berkleys site or talkorigins. Both are good sites with evidence about evolution. "proof is for beer and math"

**Abdul Fattah** · 07-23-2007

Here are some proposed missing links, which in teh end turned out to be different branches instead of direct lineage (the more proposed intermediate stages that turn out to be from different baranches, the wider the gap between man and a different specie it alledegdly evolved from.)
Australopithecus anamensis 4.2 to 3.9 million years ago
Australopithecus afarensis 4 to 2.7 million years ago
Australopithecus africanus 3 to 2 million years ago
Australopithecus robustus 2.2 to 1.6 million years ago
The false claims from Richard leakey and Donald C Johanson that the australopithecus walked erected has been refuted and seems to be closely related with urangutans (which according to evolutionists is from a different branch then men)
Homo habilis 2.2 to 1.6 million years ago (proposed in the 60's as first humanoid that walked erecte and used tools)
new discoveries in 80's showed a different picture and Bernard Wood and C. Loring Brace said that this was in fact nothing more then An Australopithecus habilis. So it's just another extinct african ape.
Homo rudolfensis 1.9 to 1.6 million years ago
It refers to a single fragmented skull found in Kenia. However most scientists have accepted it again as nothing more then Australopithecus habilis.
Homo erectus 2.0 to 0.4 million years ago
although this skeleton is exactly the same as human, evolutionists have classified it as a transendiery specie, based on the small skullcontents (900-1100 cc) and because of the big eyebrows (of teh skull). However, tehre are humans alive today with thatskullcontents (i.e. Pygmees), and that have such eyebrows (i.e. Australian aborigenals). So there is no reason to assume these skelletons are a missing link, they are just humans. In fact the New Scientists of 1998 14 march even wrote an excelent article of how Homo erectus had the technology to build and use transport ships.
Homo sapiens archaic 400 to 200 thousand years ago
again there's no reason to assuùme they weren't human, in fact many researchers have even concluded that they are exactly the same as Australian aborigenals. They even found skeletons of them showing that they lived up to recently in villages in Italy and Hungary. The dramatic pictures of hary human-like apes you found in schoolhandbooks are just indulgance into imagenation, remmeber we've only found skelletons.
Homo sapiens neandertalensis 200 to 30 thousand years ago
Erik Trinkus, paleontologist of university of mexico writes: detailed study of the skelleton of the remains of the Neandertalensis with modern man show that nothing in the anatomy of the Neaderthalensis such as movement, manipulation, intelect and linguistic capabilities are inferior to that of modern man.

Now I'm not going to claim there's some sort of crazy conspiracy going on here, and that evolutionists purposely create false intermediate species. But perhaps people are just looking so hard for these unfound missing links that they start to see things that aren't there.

As for evidence in stead of proof, that two I have not yet seen. And no, I will not look at links, arguing by links does not fly here. What? Do you actually expect that I'm going to take the time to refute all those pages just because you mention the name of the site? No, if you got some evidence that you can get from that site present it here and inshaAllah I'll answer it. Otherwise the only option you got left is to agree to disagree and back out.

**Curaezipirid** · 07-31-2007

Originally Posted by Abdul Fattah

Which evidence, you got a videorecording of it?

it is very unscientific to assume that a video recording might be the definition of evidence

those who see will hear and who hears will see

**Curaezipirid** · 07-31-2007

Can anybody refute the claim that the Magi, (as the Austrlian Aborigine race is), have a biological capacity to engage in willing sudden drops in metabolic rate, and to put such a biological difference to work only in Allah?

Australia has the oldest Human remains in which there is evidence of a death rite having been conducted.

But that is not evidence that Aborigines in Australia have an evolutionary advantage, is it. (That is the advantage which is only undermined by the practises of hate which are being perpetrated commonly against our men in the public prison system. But the question is whether the advantage of being able to conduct sudden shifts in metabolic rate, is effectively evolutionary? -especially in connection with the fact that when the shaytan know of the biology, what they enact to defeat it has repeatedly proven to increase and even enhance the biological capacity in future generations-and the more rapid the harm done us the more increase in our capacity to tolerate the shaytan without falling to them is caused.)

Salam

**Abdul Fattah** · 07-31-2007

sister, the question about the video-tape was meant sarcastically, as to indicate that all the alleged proofs are unsubstantiated.

As for biological advantages of one race t another. I'd be carefull with that.
"O Mankind, we created you from a single pair of a male and a female, and made you in to tribes and nations so that you may know each other (not that you despise each other). Verily, the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is he who is most righteous of you." (49:13)
This clearly shows that one race is not better or worse then any other, but instead being better is only in being more righteous then the other.

As for your request to refute it, in order to refute a theory/argument there has to first exist a theory or argument. You only made some unsubstantiated vague claims, and no supporting theory to refute.

ps: sorry if I misinterpreted something you said. I seem to be having some problems in understanding some sentences of your posts.

**MustafaMc** · 07-31-2007

Originally Posted by Curaezipirid

it is a disease which accompanies a thought stream in which the full comprehension of the inevitable of fulfilling prophesies has been recognised, but in which bodily behaviour has denied that recognition.

The opposite disease is the Lupus type, in which the autoimmune response begins to attack the healthy organism. It is an indicator of having been accepting more than the individual responsiblity into the individual account of comprehension.

However, that general picture of the way in which our genetics are effected by our behaviour is very important to understanding science in Islam. That the health of our Spirit effects our genetic potential through RNA is a fact.

We might not like to know this, since most of us have little or no control in matter of our Spirit, in the circumstance of this world itself being diseased beyond our immediate control. But it is nevertheless the case. We can improve our genetics only be our behaviour, by refusing to act in the paucity of Spirit which society often demands.

What in the world are you talking about?

Also, all facts which lend belief into developing a science of ablity to immediately improve genetics are very important to Islam and also Christianity and Judaism

Torah states that it requires eight generations before the sins of our predecessors are having no impact upon our immediate daily health and overall Human potential. Eight is far fewer than modern science would have us believe, which implies that there must be mechanisms by which our genetics can either deteriorate or improve over a really very short space of time.

By what mechanism.

Think about it like this, if in the next thousand years, all the Prophesies will be realised, then what will our health be like that we will be in mind always in Jannah? How much, or rather how little, will we eat? Will we sustain our body in the physical/carnal world by a little as Jesus is reported to have eaten and feed many from? Living from pure Mana is certainly factually possible for a time, and even for quite a long time, as Torah teaches. As Muslims we can appreciate this fact as a lesson of Ramadan. What is it going to require of our immediate behaviour, that in the following generations, it will be our descendants whom realise the prophesies as believers enabled in health to live as the people of the book have always given evidence to?

I will tell you that I know when I am in good Spirit, I can through prayer alone, in only about five to ten minutes of holding one posture, cause that I can enter into the cardiovascular state of having been working out, with deeper breathing and an altered heart rate. How fast I enter that state is dependant upon how little I have eaten.

Where is this described in the Quran or the hadith?

Here is one more story from science, and my apology that I have not now ready access to the original research to prove my self with. In artificial insemination work with animals, it has been widely proven that if, for example, a brown female dogs ovuum, are fertilised in a test tube, with a brown male dogs sperm, and then the resultant embryo is placed into a mother dog which is black with white spots, the puppies are very likely to develop into black with white spot pups. Why, if not that our environment in utero can switch certain genetics on and other genetics off?

I highly doubt this is a repeatable scientific observation. I don't know the genetics of color in dogs, but children sometimes express traits that are not observed in either parent due to recessive genes that become homozyygous, for example Aa X Aa > AA, Aa and aa offspring.

Surely that idea that many scientists now speak of, of a switch for specific genetics, which might be understood to be the RNA molecules which read from the total available DNA, and determine which DNA is structuring the amino acid sequences in which protiens form, is an idea with which we, as Muslims, might conceive of Prayer functionally being able to "switch" a whole population into a specific frame of mind.

Wasalam

Can you please explain the basis for what you have stated in this post?

**pasionatemumina** · 11-22-2007

in my course this is wat were doin for one of the modules hearing wat the lecturer said made me thinkin
but after readin this it made me clear
thanx

**ZarathustraDK** · 04-09-2008

Gah, again with the 'missing links'-arguments.

Don't you guys see that you ask for the impossible when you demand the missing link? If scientists find an organism dated and accepted to be the 1.5 million year old link between something 2 million years old and 1 million years old, believers will simply point to the timespan between 2 mio <-> 1.5 mio y old, 1.5 mio <-> 1 mio y old and ask for a missing link there. This is a neverending regress, and in the end believers will have demanded that scientists account for every single living organism to any time with a fossil record, which is not practically possible.