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Jesus in Islaam

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    Najm's Avatar Full Member
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    Jesus in Islaam

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    Auzubillahi-Minash shaitwaanir rajeem. Bismillahir Rahmaanir Raheem

    AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu

    The Muslim Jesus


    The Christmas season is upon us. The streets and shop-fronts are filled with colored lights, tinsel stars and decorated trees. Carols and hymns fill the air. "'Tis the season to be merry… tra la la la la!".
    Then come the New Year celebrations: the big party on the 31st bringing this "merry season" to an end.

    People then get back to their jobs; shops slowly return to their everyday colors and the decorations are taken off. What remains? Only half-price sales and after-Christmas reductions.

    Christmas and all the festivity surrounding it got me thinking about how all of this mattered. I wondered what it means to be Muslim during this Christmas season.

    Does the merriness bypass us altogether? Does the Christmas spirit completely elude us? Hmmm... Good question. Finding the answer to this one is not that easy, but it has to be figured out.

    One of my favorite Muslim scholars repeatedly declares, "No Muslim is a Muslim unless he believes in Jesus Christ."

    So as Muslims, we definitely love and respect Jesus Christ. In fact, as Muslims, we are supposed to respect all prophets equally. And so, as part of our Islamic faith, belief in Jesus is incumbent upon us.

    Christians and Muslims share a few beliefs about Jesus. However as a whole, the Muslim perspective about him is quite different from the Christian one.

    We know him as Jesus (peace be upon him), a Prophet sent to the Children of Israel to preach to them the word of God Almighty.

    The Quran many times quite fondly refers to him as "Jesus the son of Mary". Muslims believe in the prophethood of Jesus just as we fully accept his miraculous birth.

    But Muslims don't believe that he was the son of God. Muslims believe that God Almighty clearly begets no children. Jesus was thus a mighty prophet of God, but he was no more than that and he was definitely not the son of God.

    The second thing that Muslims differ in their belief about Jesus from Christians is that Jesus was not crucified to expiate for human sins. Muslims believe that no soul shall bear the burden of another's sins.

    So our sins are our own to avoid or to commit and our own to pay for. Jesus Christ could not and did not pay for all of mankind's sins, it would simply be unfair. Rather, as Muslims we believe that someone else, from among Jesus' enemies, was crucified in his place.

    Muslims believe that Jesus performed miracles, that, by the will of God, he gave life to the dead, and that he healed lepers. We go a step ahead of our Christian brothers and say that he spoke from his crib as an infant to defend his mother from those Jews who accused her of having an illegitimate child, which is something not mentioned in the Bible.

    We also know that by the will of Allah he breathed life into clay birds.

    Muslims love and respect Jesus a lot, they await Jesus' return to this world, when he will lead the struggle to establish righteousness and truth. Muslims believe that he will bring victory to the good and defeat evil. He will complete his term on the earth and will then die.

    We know that Jesus was as righteous as any other prophet of Allah and that he stood for all that is good. He was generous and kind, and taught people to love their neighbors as themselves.

    He was peaceful, yet firm in upholding the truth and rejecting falsehood. He was pleased at good deeds but angry when he witnessed deeds of corruption or greed. He condemned these bad acts just as he condemned the people who did them. Yet he spoke about a forgiving God who always forgave the true repentant.

    What Jesus bought to this world was the same message that all the prophets before him bought to their followers. All the prophets were sent to their people with the same divine commission to teach the people to be upright, kind, and to worship their Creator, the very same message that Prophet Muhammad preached to his people 600 years after Jesus Christ.

    Prophet Muhammad was quite clear in stating that he did not bring a new faith but that he was the successor to Jesus Christ and to all the other prophets, confirming and completing the teachings they brought (peace be upon them all).

    Allah sent prophets to the world to guide people to the true path and in the Quran Allah perfected this message. With the Quran, the message was complete and it was clear. It was now up to the people to henceforth maintain their beliefs and remain on the truth.

    So as Muslims, though we may not realize it, we already practice the true teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ worshiped a single Creator, was steadfast in prayer, he fasted, donated to charity and cared for the poor.

    Don't we Muslims do the same when we declare monotheism, offer Prayers, fast Ramadan and pay zakah? We definitely do, We follow the example practices and ways of all the Prophets including Jesus Christ, because this was also taught to us by Prophet Muhammad.

    As Jesus loved and respected his mother, we Muslims uphold family values. As Jesus was modest and humble, we too try to bring humility into our lives. As Jesus was steadfast in upholding the truth, so too should we Muslims strive to establish the truth.

    Now coming to Christmas, What really does it signify? How many people regularly practice what Jesus taught? Sadly, it seems that to a whole generation Christmas has come to mean no more than extravagant shopping, a week off from work and multi-colored lights, the simplicity and modesty of Jesus conveniently forgotten, lost in the packed aisles of the closest shopping-mall.

    The message that Jesus bought to this world was much more than this. It was about worshipping the Creator; it was about piety and generosity.

    As Muslims we love and respect Jesus but refuse to limit the spirit of Jesus' teachings to a single day whose historical significance may have no connection to Jesus at all.

    Rather we should try to spread goodwill to every man, woman, and child throughout the year in all our actions and deeds. We need to uphold the truth and be fair in all our dealings. We need to offer our seat to the old and guide the blind across the street. And yes, we need to do this every time we possibly can.

    Peacefully we can usher in a revolution of goodwill, love, truth, and honor for all men and women.

    This is the spirit of Jesus' teachings.

    ...Source...

    FiAmaaniAllah
    Last edited by Najm; 12-26-2008 at 08:28 PM.
    Jesus in Islaam


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    Re: The Muslim Jesus

    I liked most of what you said. Unfortunatly the message of Christmas is lost.
    You referred to the Bible of which I know well, but I would like to refer to the Koran and Surah 3:42-70. It is part of the koran I have read and it mentions Jesus. It is beautiful. It mentions Jesus but is contradicted by some muslims I have met and heard from.
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    Re: The Muslim Jesus

    ^ How is it contradicted?
    Jesus in Islaam

    "...You are my Walî in this world and in the Hereafter. Cause me to die as a Muslim, and join me with the righteous." [Surah Yusuf 101]
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    Re: The Muslim Jesus

    The contradiction is one I see in Surah 3:42 - 70 or so.
    In this we see Jesus as the Messiah. (Isa Masai) Muslims do not see Him as the Messiah that Christians do. I realise you have an issue with calling Him the Son of God but he is the Messiah and I have met Muslims who deny this evem though in the Koran it say He is. I believe you also think Jesus will return. So do Christians. In this Surah it also mentions the spirit of God. I may be wrong but I think it uses the word Rahamala or something like this.
    I think this is the wrong word. In Christianity they also believe in the Spirit of God and call Him the Holy Spirit but many Muslims deny this even thought its in the Koran. Can you make this clearer?
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    Re: The Muslim Jesus

    Muslims view him as the Messiah.. it is what the word means to Christians that is a bit of an issue, not to Muslims

    by Ahmad Deedat
    The word CHRIST is derived from the Hebrew word Messiah, Arabic-Masih. Root word m-a-s-a-h-a, meaning to rub, to massage, to anoint. Priests and kings were anointed when being consecrated to their offices. But in its translated, Grecian form "CHRIST", it seems unique:befitting Jesus only. The Christian has a knack of transmuting baser metals into shining gold. What he is wont to do is to translate names into his own language like "cephas" to Peter, "messiah" to Christ. How does he do that? Very easily MESSIAH in Hebrew means anointed. The Greek word for anointed is "christos". Just lop off the 'os' from christos and you are left with christ. Now change the little 'c' to a capital 'C', and "hey, presto!" he has created a unique (?) name! Christos means ANOINTED, and anointed means APPOINTED in its religious connotation. Jesus (pbuh) was appointed (anointed) at his baptism by John the Baptist, as God's Messenger.Every Prophet of God is so anointed or appointed. The Holy Bible is replete with the "anointed" ones. In the original Hebrew - made a "messiah". Let us keep to the English translation - "anointed." Not only were prophets and priests and kings anointed (christos-ed), but borns, and cherubs and lamp-posts also.

    I am the God of Beth-el, where you ANOINTED a pillar.....

    Genesis 31:13

    If the priest that is ANOINTED do sin....

    Leviticus 4:3

    And Moses....ANOINTED the tabernacle and all things that was therein...

    Leviticus 8:10

    ...THE LORD SHALL....EXALT THE HORN OF HIS ANOINTED

    1 Samuel 2:10

    Thus saith the Lord to his ANOINTED to Cyrus....

    Isaiah 45:1

    Thou art the ANOINTED cherub....

    Ezekiel 28:14




    There are a hundred more such references in the Holy Bible. Everytime you come across the word ANOINTED in your English Bible, you can take it that that word would be christos in the Greek translations, and if you take the same liberty with the word that the Christians have done, you will have - Christ Cherub, Christ Cyrus, Christ Priest and Christ Pillar, etc.

    SOME TITLES EXCLUSIVE
    Although, every prophet of God is an ANOINTED one of God - a Messiah, the title "Masih" or "Messiah" or its translation "CHRIST" is exclusively reserved for Jesus, the son of Mary, in both Islam and in Christianity. This is not unusual in religion. There are certain other honorific title which may be applied to more than one prophet, yet being made exclusive to one by usage: like "Rasul-lullah", meaning Messenger of God, which title is applied to both Moses (19:51) and Jesus (61:6) in the Holy Quran. Yet "Rasul-lullah" has become synonymous only with the Prophet of Islam among Muslims.

    Every prophet is indeed a FRIEND OF GOD, but its Arabic equivalent "Kha- lil-lullah" is exclusively associated with Father Abraham. This does not mean that the others are not God's friends. "Kalimul-lah" (One who spoke with God) is never used for anyone other than Moses, yet we believe that God spoke with all His Messengers, including Jesus and Muhummed (May the Peace and Blessings of God be upon all His servants). Associating certain titles with certain personages only, does not make them exclusive or unique in any way. We honour all in varying terms.



    Reference: http://www.islam101.com/religions/de..._in_islam4.htm


    peace
    Jesus in Islaam

    Text without context is pretext
    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him 44845203 1 - Jesus in Islaam

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    Re: The Muslim Jesus

    Thank you skye

    If Messiah is unique to Jesus then what was He annionted for and why?
    Were all prophets anointed as he was?
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    Re: The Muslim Jesus

    Greetings and peace be with you Najm;
    The message that Jesus bought to this world was much more than this. It was about worshipping the Creator; it was about piety and generosity.

    As Muslims we love and respect Jesus but refuse to limit the spirit of Jesus' teachings to a single day whose historical significance may have no connection to Jesus at all.

    Rather we should try to spread goodwill to every man, woman, and child throughout the year in all our actions and deeds. We need to uphold the truth and be fair in all our dealings. We need to offer our seat to the old and guide the blind across the street. And yes, we need to do this every time we possibly can.

    Peacefully we can usher in a revolution of goodwill, love, truth, and honor for all men and women.

    This is the spirit of Jesus' teachings.
    Although our beliefs about Jesus may differ, he also inspires us to strive towards good deeds.

    In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith friendship

    Eric
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    Re: The Muslim Jesus

    But I do believe that my post shows you that 'anointed' wasn't unique to Jesus, as common as being a tabernacle or a pillar? He was anointed by John the Baptist for prophet hood. Prophet Mohamed SAW was also anointed by God, hence the name 'Al moustafa'.

    again if you read the above post carefully you'll appreciate, though some things are common with all prophets, some things are unique a name sake to some.. for instance again to repeat the above though all prophets are friends to God, only Abraham was bestowed the title of 'Khalil-Allah' -- do all prophets have prophetic visions? Sure, but it was Joseph who was most known for it. I hope you can follow that thought through..

    chapter 21 from the Quran, is entitled 'The prophets'
    perhaps if you read it, it will make things clearer for you?


    Pickthal 21:1] Their reckoning draweth nigh for mankind, while they turn away in heedlessness.
    [Pickthal 21:2] Never cometh there unto them a new reminder from their Lord but they listen to it while they play,
    [Pickthal 21:3] With hearts preoccupied. And they confer in secret. The wrong-doers say: Is this other than a mortal like you? Will ye then succumb to magic when ye see (it)?
    [Pickthal 21:4] He saith: My Lord knoweth what is spoken in the heaven and the earth. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
    [Pickthal 21:5] Nay, say they, (these are but) muddled dreams; nay, he hath but invented it; nay, he is but a poet. Let him bring us a portent even as those of old (who were Allah's messengers) were sent (with portents).
    [Pickthal 21:6] Not a township believed of those which We destroyed before them (though We sent them portents): would they then believe?
    [Pickthal 21:7] And We sent not (as Our messengers) before thee other than men, whom We inspired. Ask the followers of the Reminder if ye know not?
    [Pickthal 21:8] We gave them not bodies that would not eat food, nor were they immortals.
    [Pickthal 21:9] Then we fulfilled the promise unto them. So we delivered them and whom We would, and We destroyed the prodigals.
    [Pickthal 21:10] Now We have revealed unto you a Scripture wherein is your Reminder. Have ye then no sense?
    [Pickthal 21:11] How many a community that dealt unjustly have We shattered, and raised up after them another folk!
    [Pickthal 21:12] And, when they felt Our might, behold them fleeing from it!
    [Pickthal 21:13] (But it was said unto them): Flee not, but return to that (existence) which emasculated you and to your dwellings, that ye may be questioned.
    [Pickthal 21:14] They cried: Alas for us! we were wrong-doers.
    [Pickthal 21:15] And this their crying ceased not till We made them as reaped corn, extinct.
    [Pickthal 21:16] We created not the heaven and the earth and all that is between them in play.
    [Pickthal 21:17] If We had wished to find a pastime, We could have found it in Our presence - if We ever did.
    [Pickthal 21:18] Nay, but We hurl the true against the false, and it doth break its head and lo! it vanisheth. And yours will be woe for that which ye ascribe (unto Him).
    [Pickthal 21:19] Unto Him belongeth whosoever is in the heavens and the earth. And those who dwell in His presence are not too proud to worship Him, nor do they weary;
    [Pickthal 21:20] They glorify (Him) night and day; they flag not.
    [Pickthal 21:21] Or have they chosen gods from the earth who raise the dead?
    [Pickthal 21:22] If there were therein gods beside Allah, then verily both (the heavens and the earth) had been disordered. Glorified be Allah, the Lord of the Throne, from all that they ascribe (unto Him).
    [Pickthal 21:23] He will not be questioned as to that which He doeth, but they will be questioned.
    [Pickthal 21:24] Or have they chosen other gods beside Him? say: Bring your proof (of their godhead). This is the Reminder of those with me and those before me, but most of them know not the Truth and so they are averse.
    [Pickthal 21:25] And We sent no messenger before thee but We inspired him, (saying): There is no Allah save Me (Allah), so worship Me.
    [Pickthal 21:26] And they say: The Beneficent hath taken unto Himself a son. Be He Glorified! Nay, but (those whom they call sons) are honoured slaves;
    [Pickthal 21:27] They speak not until He hath spoken, and they act by His command.
    [Pickthal 21:28] He knoweth what is before them and what is behind them, and they cannot intercede except for him whom He accepteth, and they quake for awe of Him.
    [Pickthal 21:29] And one of them who should say: Lo! I am a god beside Him, that one We should repay with hell. Thus We Repay wrong-doers.
    [Pickthal 21:30] Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?
    [Pickthal 21:31] And We have placed in the earth firm hills lest it quake with them, and We have placed therein ravines as roads that haply they may find their way.
    [Pickthal 21:32] And we have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents.
    [Pickthal 21:33] And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit.
    [Pickthal 21:34] We appointed immortality for no mortal before thee. What! if thou diest, can they be immortal!
    [Pickthal 21:35] Every soul must taste of death, and We try you with evil and with good, for ordeal. And unto Us ye will be returned.
    [Pickthal 21:36] And when those who disbelieve behold thee, they but choose thee out for mockery, (saying): Is this he who maketh mention of your gods? And they would deny all mention of the Beneficent.
    [Pickthal 21:37] Man is made of haste. I shall show you My portents, but ask Me not to hasten.
    [Pickthal 21:38] And they say: When will this promise (be fulfilled), if ye are truthful?
    [Pickthal 21:39] If those who disbelieved but knew the time when they will not be able to drive off the fire from their faces and from their backs, and they will not be helped!
    [Pickthal 21:40] Nay, but it will come upon them unawares so that it will stupefy them, and they will be unable to repel it, neither will they be reprieved.
    [Pickthal 21:41] Messengers before thee, indeed, were mocked, but that whereat they mocked surrounded those who scoffed at them.
    [Pickthal 21:42] Say: Who guardeth you in the night or in the day from the Beneficent? Nay, but they turn away from mention of their Lord!
    [Pickthal 21:43] Or have they gods who can shield them from Us? They cannot help themselves nor can they be defended from Us.
    [Pickthal 21:44] Nay, but We gave these and their fathers ease until life grew long for them. See they not how we aim to the land, reducing it of its outlying parts? Can they then be the victors?
    [Pickthal 21:45] Say (O Muhammad, unto mankind): I warn you only by the Inspiration. But the deaf hear not the call when they are warned.
    [Pickthal 21:46] And if a breath of thy Lord's punishment were to touch them, they assuredly would say: Alas for us! Lo! we were wrong-doers.
    [Pickthal 21:47] And We set a just balance for the Day of Resurrection so that no soul is wronged in aught. Though it be of the weight of a grain of mustard seed, We bring it. And We suffice for reckoners.
    [Pickthal 21:48] And We verily gave Moses and Aaron the Criterion (of right and wrong) and a light and a Reminder for those who keep from evil,
    [Pickthal 21:49] Those who fear their Lord in secret and who dread the Hour (of doom).
    [Pickthal 21:50] This is a blessed Reminder that we have revealed: Will ye then reject it?
    [Pickthal 21:51] And We verily gave Abraham of old his proper course, and We were Aware of him,
    [Pickthal 21:52] When he said unto his father and his folk: What are these images unto which ye pay devotion?
    [Pickthal 21:53] They said: We found our fathers worshippers of them.
    [Pickthal 21:54] He said: Verily ye and your fathers were in plain error.
    [Pickthal 21:55] They said: Bringest thou unto us the truth, or art thou some jester?
    [Pickthal 21:56] He said: Nay, but your Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, Who created them; and I am of those who testify unto that.
    [Pickthal 21:57] And, by Allah, I shall circumvent your idols after ye have gone away and turned your backs.
    [Pickthal 21:58] Then he reduced them to fragments, all save the chief of them, that haply they might have recourse to it.
    [Pickthal 21:59] They said: Who hath done this to our gods? Surely it must be some evil-doer.
    [Pickthal 21:60] They said: We heard a youth make mention of them, who is called Abraham.
    [Pickthal 21:61] They said: Then bring him (hither) before the people's eyes that they may testify.
    [Pickthal 21:62] They said: Is it thou who hast done this to our gods, O Abraham?
    [Pickthal 21:63] He said: But this, their chief hath done it. So question them, if they can speak.
    [Pickthal 21:64] Then gathered they apart and said: Lo! ye yourselves are the wrong-doers.
    [Pickthal 21:65] And they were utterly confounded, and they said: Well thou knowest that these speak not.
    [Pickthal 21:66] He said: Worship ye then instead of Allah that which cannot profit you at all, nor harm you?
    [Pickthal 21:67] Fie on you and all that ye worship instead of Allah! Have ye then no sense?
    [Pickthal 21:68] They cried: Burn him and stand by your gods, if ye will be doing.
    [Pickthal 21:69] We said: O fire, be coolness and peace for Abraham,
    [Pickthal 21:70] And they wished to set a snare for him, but We made them the greater losers.
    [Pickthal 21:71] And We rescued him and Lot (and brought them) to the land which We have blessed for (all) peoples.
    [Pickthal 21:72] And We bestowed upon him Isaac, and Jacob as a grandson. Each of them We made righteous.
    [Pickthal 21:73] And We made them chiefs who guide by Our command, and We inspired in them the doing of good deeds and the right establishment of worship and the giving of alms, and they were worshippers of Us (alone).
    [Pickthal 21:74] And unto Lot we gave judgment and knowledge, and We delivered him from the community that did abominations. Lo! they were folk of evil, lewd.
    [Pickthal 21:75] And We brought him in unto Our mercy. Lo! he was of the righteous.
    [Pickthal 21:76] And Noah, when he cried of old, We heard his prayer and saved him and his household from the great affliction.
    [Pickthal 21:77] And delivered him from the people who denied Our revelations. Lo! they were folk of evil, therefor did We drown them all.
    [Pickthal 21:78] And David and Solomon, when they gave judgment concerning the field, when people's sheep had strayed and browsed therein by night; and We were witnesses to their judgment.
    [Pickthal 21:79] And We made Solomon to understand (the case); and unto each of them We gave judgment and knowledge. And we subdued the hills and the birds to hymn (His) praise along with David. We were the doers (thereof).
    [Pickthal 21:80] And We taught him the art of making garments (of mail) to protect you in your daring. Are ye then thankful?
    [Pickthal 21:81] And unto Solomon (We subdued) the wind in its raging. It set by his command toward the land which We had blessed. And of everything We are Aware.
    [Pickthal 21:82] And of the evil ones (subdued We unto him) some who dived (for pearls) for him and did other work, and We were warders unto them.
    [Pickthal 21:83] And Job, when he cried unto his Lord, (saying): Lo! adversity afflicteth me, and Thou art Most Merciful of all who show mercy.
    [Pickthal 21:84] Then We heard his prayer and removed that adversity from which he suffered, and We gave him his household (that he had lost) and the like thereof along with them, a mercy from Our store, and a remembrance for the worshippers;
    [Pickthal 21:85] And (mention) Ishmael, and Idris, and Dhu'l-Kifl. All were of the steadfast.
    [Pickthal 21:86] And We brought them in unto Our mercy. Lo! they are among the righteous.
    [Pickthal 21:87] And (mention) Dhu'n-Nun, when he went off in anger and deemed that We had no power over him, but he cried out in the darkness, saying: There is no Allah save Thee. Be Thou Glorified! Lo! I have been a wrong-doer.
    [Pickthal 21:88] Then we heard his prayer and saved him from the anguish. Thus we save believers.
    [Pickthal 21:89] And Zachariah, when he cried unto his Lord: My Lord! Leave me not childless, though Thou art the Best of inheritors.
    [Pickthal 21:90] Then We heard his prayer, and bestowed upon him John, and adjusted his wife (to bear a child) for him. Lo! they used to vie one with the other in good deeds, and they cried unto Us in longing and in fear, and were submissive unto Us.
    [Pickthal 21:91] And she who was chaste, therefor We breathed into her (something) of Our Spirit and made her and her son a token for (all) peoples.
    [Pickthal 21:92] Lo! this, your religion, is one religion, and I am your Lord, so worship Me.
    [Pickthal 21:93] And they have broken their religion (into fragments) among them, (yet) all are returning unto Us.
    [Pickthal 21:94] Then whoso doeth some good works and is a believer, there will be no rejection of his effort. Lo! We record (it) for him.
    [Pickthal 21:95] And there is a ban upon any community which We have destroyed: that they shall not return.
    [Pickthal 21:96] Until, when Gog and Magog are let loose, and they hasten out of every mound,
    [Pickthal 21:97] And the True Promise draweth nigh; then behold them, staring wide (in terror), the eyes of those who disbelieve! (They say): Alas for us! We (lived) in forgetfulness of this. Ah, but we were wrong-doers!
    [Pickthal 21:98] Lo! ye (idolaters) and that which ye worship beside Allah are fuel of hell. Thereunto ye will come.
    [Pickthal 21:99] If these had been gods they would not have come thither, but all will abide therein.
    [Pickthal 21:100] Therein wailing is their portion, and therein they hear not.
    [Pickthal 21:101] Lo! those unto whom kindness hath gone forth before from Us, they will be far removed from thence.
    [Pickthal 21:102] They will not hear the slightest sound thereof, while they abide in that which their souls desire.
    [Pickthal 21:103] The Supreme Horror will not grieve them, and the angels will welcome them, (saying): This is your Day which ye were promised;
    [Pickthal 21:104] The Day when We shall roll up the heavens as a recorder rolleth up a written scroll. As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it. (It is) a promise (binding) upon Us. Lo! We are to perform it.
    [Pickthal 21:105] And verily we have written in the Scripture, after the Reminder: My righteous slaves will inherit the earth:
    [Pickthal 21:106] Lo! there is a plain statement for folk who are devout.
    [Pickthal 21:107] We sent thee not save as a mercy for the peoples.
    [Pickthal 21:108] Say: It is only inspired in me that your Allah is One Allah. Will ye then surrender (unto Him)?
    [Pickthal 21:109] But if they are averse, then say: I have warned you all alike, although I know not whether nigh or far is that which ye are promised.
    [Pickthal 21:110] Lo! He knoweth that which is said openly, and that which ye conceal.
    [Pickthal 21:111] And I know not but that this may be a trial for you, and enjoyment for a while.
    [Pickthal 21:112] He saith: My Lord! Judge Thou with truth. Our Lord is the Beneficent, Whose help is to be implored against that which ye ascribe (unto Him).
    Jesus in Islaam

    Text without context is pretext
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    Re: The Muslim Jesus

    Thank You Eric and Skye.

    I agree Eric that some healing of wounds between the two great religions is required, interfaith as you called it, but I believe strongly that we require a common thread and that is God but also Jesus even though we see Him differently.
    Very in depth Skye.
    I found this meaning for Messiah which includes what you sent me in part.
    The common word used for Messiah in the Christian Scriptures, in the original Greek
    texts, is ho Christos. Twice it is said to be a translation of the word Messias (John 1:41,
    4:25) and, as in the Qur’an, no attempt is made to define or explain the meaning of the title.
    Nevertheless, just as the Qur’an uses the definite article al to apply the title to Jesus alone,
    so in the Christian Scriptures he is constantly called ho Christos, that is the Messiah.
    Throughout the Scriptures the title is set forth as applying to God’s supreme deliverer who was eagerly awaited by the Jews. It is therefore to the Jewish Scriptures that we must turn to find its real meaning. In many places in the original Hebrew texts we find the word mashiah, meaning “anointed.” It is applied to the anointed high priest in Israel (Leviticus4:3)—as well as the nation’s king (2 Samuel 1:14). It is also given to the prophets of God
    (Psalm 105:15) as well as to the Persian king Cyrus who was anointed by God to prepare the way for the rebuilding of the city of Jerusalem and its Temple after its destruction by a previous king, Nebuchadnezzar (Isaiah 45:1). The prophet Daniel, however, predicted that after the rebuilding of Jerusalem, a period of time would pass wherefore a Mashiah, an “Anointed One”, would come (Daniel 9:25). This use of the word as a title for the coming Prince of God led the Jews to speak freely of him as ha Mashiah—”the Messiah.”
    The prophets of old spoke regularly of this great personality who God promised would come to the nation. It was little wonder that the Jews concluded that the Ruler of God’s own kingdom, whose origin was from of old, and whose dominion would last forever, was to be far greater than a prophet. When Daniel spoke of him as “God’s Anointed One” (Daniel9:25), the title Mashiah stuck and became the common title to describe him. “The Messiah”
    became their long-awaited Ruler and Deliverer.
    When we read a contemporary record of John’s life and ministry we find that he looked toward the coming Messiah as one far superior to himself. As all the people of that time were in expectation of the coming
    Saviour, and “questioned in their hearts concerning John, whether perhaps he were the Messiah” (Luke 3:15). John replied to them all by saying: “I baptize you with water; but he who is mightier than I is coming, the thong of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie; he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire” (Luke 3:16). These statements were all consistent with those of the former prophets who had predicted the glory of the coming
    Messiah whom John openly identified as Jesus.
    a Samaritan woman came to the well of Jacob at Sychar and saw
    Jesus sitting next to it. A brief discussion followed and, when she saw that he could seeright through her and could read the background of her life, she said, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet” (John 4:19). Yet, as he continued to discuss with her and now began to speak of a new age that was about to be brought in where opportunities would arise for all
    men in all nations to have a living knowledge of the truth of God in their hearts and thus worship him fully in spirit and in truth, she sensed that he was far more than a prophet and said to him: “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ); when he comes, he will show us all things”. (John 4:25) To this Jesus openly replied, “I who speak to you am he” (John 4:26). Her question was an indirect way of prompting Jesus to disclose himself—was he just another prophet or was he possibly God’s Supremely Anointed One, the heavenly ruler of ancient days who would bring the full and final revelation of God to man? Jesus gave her an emphatic an-swer—I am he. On another occasion, when the Jews said to him, “How long will you keep
    us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly” (John 10:24), Jesus again answered quite openly “I told you, and you do not believe” (John 10:25). He had no doubt whatsoever that he was the Messiah, the man of glory foretold in the prophecies of the prophets who came before him. Indeed when the high priest of Israel himself directly asked him “Are you the Messiah?” (Mark 14:61), he answered equally directly, “I am” (Mark 14:62).
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    Re: The Muslim Jesus

    Hello Skye, Eric and others

    You have got me on a hunt for the meanings of words here so I found this. I do not understand all of this but thought it would be good for you to comment on. The grammar is very interesting, especially as I am a teacher.

    The Arabic word, "masih" differs from "mamsuah" in that "mamsuah" simply means "anointed" and signifies a lesser anointing. "Masih" however, is based on the grammatical form which emphasizes the fact of the anointing being possessed by someone or something. It is an "intensive form" that often indicates "a very high degree of the quality which their subject possesses or an act which is done with frequency ... by their subject." (A Grammar of the Arabic Language, vol. 1, Edited by W. Wright, L.L.D, copyright 1967, p. 136)

    Although words of the "fa`eel" form (the form which "masih" is from) when derived from transitive verbs, has usually a passive sense" (Wright, p. 136), they can also be used in a higher sense as cited above. Beeston in The Arabic Language Today, states "The reader faced with a participle pattern will always need to consider whether in the given context it is being used in the fundamental value or in one of the specialized meanings ..." (p. 35) Wright cites the form "fa`eel" as being an adjective which is "made like, or assimilated to, the participles, viz. in respect to their inflection." (p. 133) He also states that adjectives of the "fa`eel" form express "a quality inherent and permanent in a person." (p. 133) Based on these definitions and the examples of other Arabic words in the cited book by Wright, "masih" is grammatically capable of carrying the idea of "very anointed" or "most anointed" both of which would express "a very high degree of the quality which their subject possesses" or even "anointing one" which would express "an act which is done with frequency ... by their subject". Because of the extent of the anointing, it follows logically that the anointed one, "masih", has the responsibility and the right to anoint others, making him also an anointer. In the same way "shaheed", which is the same grammatical form as "masih", means witness, meaning one who witnesses, or witnesser, because the one who has witnessed the truth logically becomes the witnesser, or the one who is witnessing to the truth. God is referred to as "as-Shaheed" because He is the witness above all witnesses.

    Three factors work together to determine the meaning of "masih" when referring to Isa al-Masih, these are: 1) the grammatical form, 2) the logical progression of carrying out the responsibilities inherently existing within the anointing, and 3) the context of the use of "masih".

    The Qur'an never refers to any other prophet as being "masih" much less "al-Masih".

    For those who still want to simply call "al-Masih" a title for Jesus Christ, please consider the following. If today in Saudi Arabia, a ordinary citizen claimed to be the King of Saudi Arabia, and began calling himself the Sheikh of Saudi Arabia, either the authorities would say he was mentally deranged and he would be a laughing stock or they might even escort him out of the country--or worse. When Jesus Christ was born, it was revealed by God that he would be a king. (Injil, Matthew 2) (That is part of what "masih" signifies.) In fact, it was written that he would be the Messianic King. Even though "King" is a title, King Herod did not take this lightly because he understood that "king" had a very clear meaning. As a result, he very cleverly tried to kill Jesus. This type of scenario is constantly occurring around the world today. To say that the term "al-Masih" is simply a title, without meaning, fails to take into account the logical and grammatical sense.
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    Re: The Muslim Jesus

    Hello Skye, Eric and others

    You have got me on a hunt for the meanings of words here so I found this. I do not understand all of this but thought it would be good for you to comment on. The grammar is very interesting, especially as I am a teacher.

    The Arabic word, "masih" differs from "mamsuah" in that "mamsuah" simply means "anointed" and signifies a lesser anointing. "Masih" however, is based on the grammatical form which emphasizes the fact of the anointing being possessed by someone or something. It is an "intensive form" that often indicates "a very high degree of the quality which their subject possesses or an act which is done with frequency ... by their subject." (A Grammar of the Arabic Language, vol. 1, Edited by W. Wright, L.L.D, copyright 1967, p. 136)

    Although words of the "fa`eel" form (the form which "masih" is from) when derived from transitive verbs, has usually a passive sense" (Wright, p. 136), they can also be used in a higher sense as cited above. Beeston in The Arabic Language Today, states "The reader faced with a participle pattern will always need to consider whether in the given context it is being used in the fundamental value or in one of the specialized meanings ..." (p. 35) Wright cites the form "fa`eel" as being an adjective which is "made like, or assimilated to, the participles, viz. in respect to their inflection." (p. 133) He also states that adjectives of the "fa`eel" form express "a quality inherent and permanent in a person." (p. 133) Based on these definitions and the examples of other Arabic words in the cited book by Wright, "masih" is grammatically capable of carrying the idea of "very anointed" or "most anointed" both of which would express "a very high degree of the quality which their subject possesses" or even "anointing one" which would express "an act which is done with frequency ... by their subject". Because of the extent of the anointing, it follows logically that the anointed one, "masih", has the responsibility and the right to anoint others, making him also an anointer. In the same way "shaheed", which is the same grammatical form as "masih", means witness, meaning one who witnesses, or witnesser, because the one who has witnessed the truth logically becomes the witnesser, or the one who is witnessing to the truth. God is referred to as "as-Shaheed" because He is the witness above all witnesses.

    Three factors work together to determine the meaning of "masih" when referring to Isa al-Masih, these are: 1) the grammatical form, 2) the logical progression of carrying out the responsibilities inherently existing within the anointing, and 3) the context of the use of "masih".

    The Qur'an never refers to any other prophet as being "masih" much less "al-Masih".

    For those who still want to simply call "al-Masih" a title for Jesus Christ, please consider the following. If today in Saudi Arabia, a ordinary citizen claimed to be the King of Saudi Arabia, and began calling himself the Sheikh of Saudi Arabia, either the authorities would say he was mentally deranged and he would be a laughing stock or they might even escort him out of the country--or worse. When Jesus Christ was born, it was revealed by God that he would be a king. (Injil, Matthew 2) (That is part of what "masih" signifies.) In fact, it was written that he would be the Messianic King. Even though "King" is a title, King Herod did not take this lightly because he understood that "king" had a very clear meaning. As a result, he very cleverly tried to kill Jesus. This type of scenario is constantly occurring around the world today. To say that the term "al-Masih" is simply a title, without meaning, fails to take into account the logical and grammatical sense.
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    Re: Jesus in Islaam

    For other people, the difficulty of Christians is that a Christian couldn't believe that all the Prophets were "Guide by Allahu Ta'ala from doing error" and they all had good akhlaq.

    Muslim believed that Jibril 'Alaihi Salaam was cleansing Muhammad Shalalahu 'Alaihi wa Sallam's heart from the part of Syaithan, and fill his heart with Iman and Hikmah, so his heart only to Allahu Ta'ala. And Jibril 'Alaihi Salaam also did this surgery again to him, before he was having the trip of Isra' Mi'raj.

    And so when people aren't used to obey the Taurat because it was being sent down to the chosen man, Muusa 'Alaihi Salaam, they also would not accept Iisa 'Alaihi Salaam as the chosen man, instead they made God out of him and son of God, na'uudzu billah.

    Why Allahu Tabaraka Ta'ala was making a miracle of a fatherless Prophet?
    It is known that the Jews liked to lower the woman against their original Din (religion of Muusa and other Prophets).
    This miracle offcourse made them furious and got more arrogant or instead made others forget their arrogance of being the Ibrahim's descendants.
    And made them accept the true teaching of Muusa 'Alaihi Salaam in Taurat.

    So it's not the action of people who said "the Jews don't have any Iman" or saying "the Nashrani don't have any Iman," what's right is "The followers of Taurat have Iman and the followers of Injil have Iman."
    When these people met Rasulullah, they knew that what had been promise by Allahu Ta'ala came true at that time, of the coming of Almasih and the coming of the last prophet after Iisa time.

    You'll see in the beginning of John, there was someone asking to Almasih Iisa Ibn Maryam 'Alaihi Salaam "Are you John?" then he replied "no," Are you Elia? then he replied "no," ARE YOU THE LAST PROPHET?, then he replied "NO."

    QUESTION, Reply the Capitalised words. Who is the SPIRIT of TRUTH? For me if you really believe this, then you must followed MUHAMMAD Shalallahu 'Alaihi wa Sallam, because he was receiving the words of Allahu Ta'ala through the SPIRIT OF TRUTH (Ruhul Amin), nonetheless Jibril 'Alaihi Salaam is Ruhul Amin and Ruhul Qudus.


    Surah Ash-Shu'araa (47) 227 Ayahs11 Rukus

    Asy Syu'ara (47):193 Nazala bihir RU_HUL AMIN


    193 With it came down the Spirit of Faith and Truth


    Trinity or Duality of God In Christian Minds
    The big problem to Muslim who already read the Bible, they realised that the Church fathers were someone like Constantine, Eusebius, Arius. Then you go on having the Athanasius creed and some meeting before that and after that.

    Christians never ask about Gospel of Nazorean, separate from Gospel of the Ebionites and Gospel of the Holy Twelve.

    The Christian Bible only include the story of Jesus when he was 30 Years old. That's weird, because in there you won't find about "how he look like."

    A Muslim will find about the characteristics of Almasih Jesus Ibn Maryam and how he look like in Al Hadits. Also of Muusa 'Alaihi Salam.

    When you think that TRINITY is from reality of God. Then I say that it was fruit of Philosophy thinking. After Nuh 'alaihi Salaam's time, the people were worshipping Wadd, Suwa', Yaghuts, Yauq and Nashr. These people were the Pious people in their time who had died, so the simplest thinking of UMMAH at that time was that they were worshipping them so that those Pious will pray to Allahu Ta'ala, or so that they will be near to Allah as they ask help to them. Or they will ask Allah's mercy by using the position of those Pious men, they thought.

    As time goes by, the worship getting worse, that was worshipping the LEADERS of their nation, as they thought that God will strengthen their nation by doing so. This was in the time of Pharaoh or Fir'aun which began before Muusa 'alaihi Salaam and after Yusuf 'alaihi Salaam, in Egypt.

    Then there was the worship of SACRIFICING virgins, as these came from the thinking that ADULTERY is a sin, and a virgin must be sacrifice to God, so that He won't be jealous again of people who had many concubines, because He already got His. They thought God liked virgins.

    Then came the Greek who liked to worship God and family of God.

    The conclusion is that every Kafir people liked to affirm "God has families,"
    so many of them,
    for example: Osiris(father), Isis (mother), Horus(son). Horus even got twin brother: Seth (Syaithan).
    Father of Krishna, Mother of Krishna and Krishna
    God the Father, Mary, Jesus
    God the Father, Holy Ghost, Jesus
    Zeus (father), Hera (mother), Apollo (son)
    etc

    What is "Laa ilaha illallah."?
    In Arabic the way to write Laa ilaha illallah is " لا اله الا الله "
    See the ا (alif) in the word Allah there? The Alif could be erase, but why was it written in there? Because it is Alif lam makrifat, means that what Muslim meant by the word "Allah" is definite, not indefinite and not abstact (Nakirah).

    That means Allahu Ta'ala is only the Creator, the Cherisher, the Sustainer, and the One God who owns the Asma'ul Husna which He made known through His Kitab, and through His messengers, and which He keep inside His knowledge which is Ghaib (not known but by Him).

    If the writing is like this " لا اله الا لله " the alif before the lafazh Allah is erase, then it is becoming Allah the abstract, which won't be Al Ilah, the word Allah was derived from Al Ilah " ال اله" not "اله" the rule in Arabic is that when the word written the form of Nakirah means abstract, while when written in the form of Makrifat (with Al : ال) means that it is a DEFINITE noun (Isim).

    So forever, Islam will never worship duality of Allah as one or Oneness of Allah in duality, or Trinity of Allah in 1 or oneness of Allah in Trinity.
    Only Allah the Al Ilah, Ilah means 1 God, if 2 God: Ilahaini.


    Talking Baby In A Cradle Became A Prophet

    To Muslim, Jesus already became Prophet since he was a very little boy and Allahu Ta'ala made him talk to people when he was a baby to who thought that he was a baby born of adultery.

    This is inviting Iman from Christian:

    QS19:29 Then she pointed to him. They said How can we talk to one who is in the CRADLE, a young boy?
    30 He spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet,
    31 And hath made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and hath enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive,
    32 And (hath made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and hath not made me arrogant, unblest.
    33 Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!
    34 Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt.
    35 It befitteth not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him! When He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is.
    36 And lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord. So serve Him. That is the right path.
    37 The sects among them differ: but woe unto the disbelievers from the meeting of an awful Day.
    38 See and hear them on the Day they come unto Us! Yet the evil-doers are today in error manifest.
    39 And warn them of the Day of anguish when the case hath been decided. Now they are in a state of carelessness, and they believe not.
    40 Lo! We inherit the earth and all who are thereon, and unto Us they are returned.


    And for information, the Christians knew that most of the Gospel of Nazorean's fragments were lost, and that it was not Gospel of The Holy 12 or Gospel of The Ebionites, it's 3 separated Gospels. Furthermore, the contents of those 3 were longer than your Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, I believed that many Christian are only a blind follower of their Priests at the all time.
    When their Priests chose Rahbaniyyah (Priesthood/unmarried), they are silenced, and even when the Priest made lists of sins that could be paid as well as the prices, they obey this without questioning.

    And when we direct them to Gospel of Nazoreans, they only said "Your Al Qur'an deals with the same problem, as abrogation and stuff."

    The answer "Al Qur'an came in 7 letters (7 types of pronouncing the words with the same meaning and contents). About abrogation, there were no abrogated verses but Allahu Ta'ala substituted it with better verses or similar verses, with the same contents."


    QS.Al Baqarah (2):106 None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten but We substitute something BETTER or SIMILAR; knowest thou not that Allah hath power over all things?

    For instance the verses about "Rajam (stoning to death)" when someone saw this verse of Kalamullah:

    QS.59:7 ...So take what the Apostle assigns to you and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you. And fear Allah; for Allah is strict in Punishment.

    Rajam was Sunnah of Rasulullah and even the Sunnah of Khulafa 'Urasyidin (Abu Bakar, 'Umar, Utsmaan and 'Ali radhiyallahu 'anhum ajma'in).

    This even proven that Rasulullah never hide any revelation sent down he accepted from Allahu Jalla Jalaaluhu.



    Assalamu'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh.
    Last edited by Zamtsa; 01-21-2009 at 02:28 PM.
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