Would you say Islam can be more of a theory or way of life than a religion? Islam means "Submission to the will of God" and has roots in the Arab word for peace. Now, I have always learned that humans are given free will to do what they want, and when we die, God judges us based on our actions in life. For example, can you be a Jew culturally and still be a "Muslim"? Meaning one who submits to the will of God?
To discuss this topic, One must define and clarify...so lets do that first.
Muslim---In today's everyday usage, this term has a definite meaning---it labels a person who believes in the Oneness of God and that Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) is the messenger of God. Therefore, those who do not fit this definition---cannot be defined as Muslims.
Muslim---As used in the Quran, this has a different definition. It describes a "state of being" that accompanies an action---the action being "to submit" (to God). The Quran says Prophet Abraham(pbuh) was neither a Jew nor a Christian but a Muslim ----meaning he did not define himself with "labels" but was one who submitted (to God). What does this mean?---"to submit"? It means to follow the "law"/Guidance from God. The Quran is Guidance. The Torah is also a Guidance, although it has been corrupted over time. God is Compassionate and Merciful and for those who do not know the Quran, God will extend his mercy to those who follow the scriptures given to them sincerely and fully. It is not for us human beings to judge who is or is not one who submits---beause we cannot see what is in the hearts of another. This is for God to Judge.
Surah 5 verse 48 (partial)
'...To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If God had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (his will is) to test you in what he has given you so strive as in a race (competition) in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God..."
The purpose of diversity is to strenghten us in compassion patience and tolerance towards one another. Rather than using lables to exclude, we should use them to celebrate our diversity yet also affirm that we are all brothers and sisters of each other.
... can you be a Jew culturally and still be a "Muslim"?
what do u mean by be a Jew culturally ?
To be a Muslim , u have to testify that there is no god but Allah and Muhammed pbuh is a slave and messenger of Allah.
Jews reject Jesus and Muhammed pbut as messengers . So , if one wants to be a Muslim , s/he must accept all Prophets pbut . If 'be a Jew culturally ' means rejecting any Prophet , then no , one can't be a Jew culturally and still be a Muslim.
Christ will never be proud to reject to be a slave to God .....holy Quran, chapter Women , 4: 172
Rather than using lables to exclude, we should use them to celebrate our diversity yet also affirm that we are all brothers and sisters of each other.
What about labels like 'believers' and 'non-believers'? Does the way they are used in the Qur'an really encourage fraternity and fellow-feeling between the two groups?
Would you say Islam can be more of a theory or way of life than a religion? Islam means "Submission to the will of God" and has roots in the Arab word for peace. Now, I have always learned that humans are given free will to do what they want, and when we die, God judges us based on our actions in life. For example, can you be a Jew culturally and still be a "Muslim"? Meaning one who submits to the will of God?
Can you please clarify what actually did you mean by saying
can you be a Jew culturally and still be a "Muslim"?
Very true. I don't like labels, and as for me, I am culturally Jewish. I celebrate the holidays and I pray in a synagogue. But as for a religion, I don't like to be labeled, I just love God who has stood by me and my family through tick and thin, and I try to do good in His eyes.
To be a Muslim , u have to testify that there is no god but Allah and Muhammed pbuh is a slave and messenger of Allah.
Jews reject Jesus and Muhammed pbut as messengers . So , if one wants to be a Muslim , s/he must accept all Prophets pbut . If 'be a Jew culturally ' means rejecting any Prophet , then no , one can't be a Jew culturally and still be a Muslim.
Oh no, I mean celebrate the holidays. Keep the Sabbath, etc.
The Torah is also a Guidance, although it has been corrupted over time.
It is often claimed that the Koran has not been corrupted and the previous revelations have. What indication is there that the Qur'an has not been corrupted, other than the fact the it says itself that it hasn't been?
Given the direct revelations given to Muhammed, the early tradition of discourse (verbal recitation of the Qu'ran) and the political/cultural turmoil of the initial period in which the Qu'ran was finally written down in the form we know today, is it really safe to assume that it has not been corrupted? This seems to me an entirely human aspect.
I agree with gzgibson that the phrasing in (at least the translated version of) the Qu'ran is quite harsh at times. One has to be somewhat of an enlightened mind to extract the more nuanced peace-loving message that many of its followers (thankfully) proclaim.
To be a Muslim is to Submit to God. Muslims believe God wants us to follow His laws as stated in the Qur'an. Jewish holidays are not part of Muslim practices and are not mentioned as permissible in the Qur'an - so on that front no you can't be culturally Jewish and a Muslim at the same time
To discuss this topic, One must define and clarify...so lets do that first.
Muslim---In today's everyday usage, this term has a definite meaning---it labels a person who believes in the Oneness of God and that Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) is the messenger of God. Therefore, those who do not fit this definition---cannot be defined as Muslims.
Muslim---As used in the Quran, this has a different definition. It describes a "state of being" that accompanies an action---the action being "to submit" (to God). The Quran says Prophet Abraham(pbuh) was neither a Jew nor a Christian but a Muslim ----meaning he did not define himself with "labels" but was one who submitted (to God). What does this mean?---"to submit"? It means to follow the "law"/Guidance from God. The Quran is Guidance.
I found your post interesting. Interesting enough to provoke a question. Why are there 2 definitions of "Muslim", one as used in the Qur'an and one in "everyday usage" that is inconsistent with the Qur'an?
Why would one who submits to following Allah's guidance as found in the Qur'an, instead of using the definition of Islam that is found in the Qur'an, use (in your words) "a different definition" than that of the Qur'an?
Last edited by Grace Seeker; 03-10-2010 at 04:27 PM.
The use of "believers" and "Non-believers" in the Quran----
Unbeliever---the Arabic word is "Kaffir". In everyday usage, it is a term of insult and Muslims will often use it on each other (and have done so throughout Muslim history)
However---the Quran has a very specific meaning for this term. (As it does for all terms and labels it uses). Kaffir is a term used for a "farmer"---one who covers up the seed with soil. ---In religious terms, it would imply someone who covers up the "Truth/Guidance" with Ego/Egoic desires. The word also has the same "roots" as the word "Ungrateful" and so, Kaffir has further connotations of someone who, after understanding Guidance/Truth, completely rejects it out of ungratefulness. (from a book by Toshihiko Isutzu)---Someone who does not know Guidance/Truth or is incapable of understanding it ---is not a "Kaffir"---because one has to know/understand something in order to reject it.
In the Quran, --Someone who does not fully understand or appreciate Guidance or chooses only parts of it is a "Hypocrite"(Munafiqueen)
"Believer"---In the Quran, there are many levels/types of "believer". The word "believer" as defined in the beginning verses of Surah 2 is "Mutaqeen" ---or one who has "Taqwa"(God-awareness). (These include the "People of the book" who sincerely and fully believe in God and the Guidance given to them----People of the book who selectively choose what to believe or are insincere are "hypocrites")
What is Guidance/Truth?---God's will (or---Right belief that promotes right intentions that lead to right actions for the benefit of all of God's creations)
Intactness of Quran---
There are probably others who can answer this issue much better than I can---but I will give it a try.....
The Quran we have today is called the "Uthmani Codex" by Non-Muslim scholars---All 1.5 billion Muslims, regardless of what "group" they belong to, use the exact same Arabic Quran. There are no "volumes" revisions, versions....etc. The Arabic Quran used today is exactly the same word for word, letter for letter as the "Uthmani Codex" and this fact can be double checked with various early Quran's on display in Museums......That is not to say that there are no errors in copying---these do happen, but these Quran are destroyed. The process of "Quality Control" for the Arabic Quran is very vigorous--even today.
As to the time period between Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) and Caliph Uthman, there is a gap of about 12 years (Death of Prophet Muhammed(pbuh)632 CE--Death of Caliph Umar 644 CE) Caliph Uthamn was himself a companion of the Prophet and Most Muslims around him had memorized the Quran---exactly as revealed. (There were also, a couple of complete written Quran --though may or may not have been in book form) and the compilation of what is the book form (of today) was done under the most rigourous conditions of authentication. (Caliph Uthman died in 656 CE)
What about labels like 'believers' and 'non-believers'? Does the way they are used in the Qur'an really encourage fraternity and fellow-feeling between the two groups?
Peace
The Qur'an speaks only the truth, and in the Qur'an the truth is set very clear from the false.
Why would anyone accept truth if there is no difference between believers and non-believers.
You who reject faith (kafirun)
I do not worship what you worship
And you do not worship what I worship
I won't be a worshipper of what you worship
You won't be a worshipper of what I worship
to you be your way, and to me mine.
To be a Muslim is to Submit to God. Muslims believe God wants us to follow His laws as stated in the Qur'an. Jewish holidays are not part of Muslim practices and are not mentioned as permissible in the Qur'an - so on that front no you can't be culturally Jewish and a Muslim at the same time
Yes. They are linked with associating others with God and that is a major sin. Islam is a complete religion and way of life, therefore, it must be accepted as such.
To be a Muslim is to Submit to God. Muslims believe God wants us to follow His laws as stated in the Qur'an. Jewish holidays are not part of Muslim practices and are not mentioned as permissible in the Qur'an - so on that front no you can't be culturally Jewish and a Muslim at the same time
Are you saying that Muslims cannot do anything unless it is mentioned as permissible in the Qur'an? There are so many things NOT mentioned in the Qur'an, this seems hardly a plausible way to even live. Surely there is more to your answer than just that they are not mentioned in the Qur'an.
@grace seeker
sorry I missed your question-----
Why are there 2 definitions of "Muslim"?----because those who follow Islam(to submit) are "Muslims"(those who submit)---therefore, when a person follows the Message of the Prophet(pbuh), the Quran, the Sunnah....that person follows Islam and therefore is a Muslim. This is not "inconsistent" with the Quran, it is simply a more limited way of using the word in order to define/label the people (as a noun rather than as a verb)
However, the Quran has a much more sophisticated nuance...And scholars have endeavored to understand the deep wisdom it contains......for example, Islam(to submit to God) is one level of spirituality---it means to follow God's commands, such as regular prayers, fasting, charity, hajj.....and promote within us intentions and behaviours that are good. There is another level called Iman(Faith/Trust). This is when we not only outwardly follow God's commands but also grow in spirituality within by Faith. The definition of Faith is NOT BLIND BELIEF but firm belief arising out of knowledge and conviction. That is, belief in God that comes from both an intellectual and intuitive understanding. The highest level of spirituality is called Ihsan and it is explained as a state of being where all our intentions and actions are based on the thought that God is in front of us. This state of consiousness (highest "self) is called nafs mutmainna or Peace/"self" of Peace.
Thanks for the above answer siam. I have a personal comment on the following. I hope it isn't deemed inappropriate here.
format_quote Originally Posted by siam
The definition of Faith is NOT BLIND BELIEF but firm belief arising out of knowledge and conviction. That is, belief in God that comes from both an intellectual and intuitive understanding.
I wonder is this is a place the Christians and Muslims simply need to work harder to be sure that we are communicating with each other, rather than merely talking at each other. Let me explain why.
We both use the term "Faith." As you explained it, in the Islamic understanding it arises out of knowledge and conviction. Now, certainly Christians experience knowledge and conviction as well. But that is not what we mean by faith. And then Muslims think that since we don't mean knowledge, that we must be talking about what is termed "blind belief". But that isn't what Christians mean either, or at least not those who are trying to grow in their faith.
For the Christian, the term "faith" is linked to the terms "hope" and even more so to "trust". And while there is no element of knowledge in that, I think that maybe you can see the element of conviction. To have faith in someone, to believe in someone, is to trust them.
For example, if I go to sit on a chair, I don't know that the chair is going to support me (at least not until after I sit on it), but I trust that it will. With a chair that trust may come from a sort of knowledge, past experiences of having sat on the chair or knowing the person who built it, but it is still an expression of trust, a conviction that the chair will support me, and that belief is ultimately given its highest expression when I actually sit in the chair. That's they way in which we use the term "faith", which I don't think is all that different from what you mean. Is it? We certainly don't mean what is meant by the expression "blind faith".
The highest level of spirituality is called Ihsan and it is explained as a state of being where all our intentions and actions are based on the thought that God is in front of us. This state of consiousness (highest "self) is called nafs mutmainna or Peace/"self" of Peace.
Are you saying that Muslims cannot do anything unless it is mentioned as permissible in the Qur'an? There are so many things NOT mentioned in the Qur'an, this seems hardly a plausible way to even live. Surely there is more to your answer than just that they are not mentioned in the Qur'an.
In Islam there are only two basic rules:
- in the affairs of worships, everything is NOT allowed (haraam) unless it has been explicitly allowed in the qur'an or given an example by prophet Muhammad SAW (sunnah). Hence innovation in acts of worships are forbidden.
- in the worldly affairs (everything else BUT worships), everything IS allowed unless it has been explicitly NOT allowed in the Qur'an or sunnah.
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