In the Qur'an, Allaah (swt) constantly speaks about the struggle between truth and falsehood (often likened to the difference between light and darkness) and the separation between believers and disbelievers. They have distinguishing characertistics in this world, and in the Hereafter the separation shall become even more apparent on the Day of Judgement and of course through Heaven and Hell.
And yet there are even more verses...
And know that whatever of war-booty that you may gain, verily one-fifth of it is assigned to Allah, and to the Messenger, and to the near relatives, (and also) the orphans, the poor and the wayfarer, if you have believed in Allah and in that which We sent down to Our slave on the Day of criterion (between right and wrong), the Day when the two forces met (the battle of Badr); And Allah is able to do all things. (And remember) when you (the Muslim army) were on the near side of the valley, and they on the farther side, and the caravan on the ground lower than you. Even if you had made a mutual appointment to meet, you would certainly have failed in the appointment, but (you met) that Allah might accomplish a matter already ordained (in His Knowledge), so that those who were to be destroyed (for their rejecting the Faith) might be destroyed after a clear evidence, and those who were to live (i.e. believers) might live after a clear evidence. And surely, Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.[8: 41-42]
(on the Day of Criterion, the Day when the two forces met; and Allah is Able to do all things.) Allah is making His favors and compassion towards His creation known, when He distinguished between truth and falsehood in the battle of Badr. That day was called, `Al-Furqan', because Allah raised the word of faith above the word of falsehood, He made His religion apparent and supported His Prophet and his group. `Ali bin Abi Talhah and Al-`Awfi reported that Ibn `Abbas said, "Badr is YawmAl-Furqan; during it, Allah separated between truth and falsehood.'' http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=8&tid=20194
(but (you met) that Allah might accomplish a matter already ordained,) Allah had decreed that He would bring glory to Islam and its people, while disgracing Shirk and its people. You [the companions] had no knowledge this would happen, but it was out of Allah's compassion that He did that.''
(So that those who were to be destroyed might be destroyed after a clear evidence.) Muhammad bin Ishaq commented, "So that those who disbelieve do so after witnessing clear evidence, proof and lessons, and those who believe do so after witnessing the same.'' This is a sound explanation. Allah says, He made you meet your enemy in one area without appointment, so that He gives you victory over them.' This way, `He will raise the word of truth above falsehood, so that the matter is made clear, the proof unequivocal and the evidence plain. Then there will be no more plea or doubt for anyone. Then, those destined to destruction by persisting in disbelief do so with evidence, aware that they are misguided and that proof has been established against them,
(and those who were to live might live), those who wish to believe do so,(after a clear evidence), and proof. Verily, faith is the life of the heart, as Allah said,
(Is he who was dead (without faith by ignorance and disbelief) and We gave him life (by knowledge and faith) and set for him a light (of belief) whereby he can walk among men ...) [6:122]. http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=8&tid=20236
Is he who walks prone (without seeing) on his face, more rightly guided, or he who (sees and) walks upright on the Straight Way (i.e. Islamic Monotheism)? [67: 22]
He it is Who created you, then some of you are disbelievers and some of you are believers. And Allah is All-Seer of what you do. [64: 2]
Verily, We have created man from Nutfah (drops) of mixed semen (sexual discharge of man and woman), in order to try him: so We made him hearer and seer. Verily, We showed him the way, whether he be grateful or ungrateful. [76: 2-3]
Verily, We have created man in toil. Does he think that none can overcome him? He says (boastfully): "I have wasted wealth in abundance!" Does he think that none sees him? Have We not made for him two eyes, And a tongue and two lips? And shown him the two ways (good and evil)?[90: 4-10]
When the Occurrence occurs, There is, at its occurrence, no denial. It will bring down [some] and raise up [others]. When the earth is shaken with convulsion And the mountains are broken down, crumbling And become dust dispersing. And you become [of] three kinds: [56: 1-7]
Has there reached you the report of the Overwhelming [event]? [Some] faces, that Day, will be humbled, Working [hard] and exhausted. They will [enter to] burn in an intensely hot Fire. They will be given drink from a boiling spring. For them there will be no food except from a poisonous, thorny plant Which neither nourishes nor avails against hunger. [Other] faces, that Day, will show pleasure. With their effort [they are] satisfied In an elevated garden,[88: 1-10]
On the Day (i.e. the Day of Resurrection) when some faces will become white and some faces will become black; as for those whose faces will become black (to them will be said): "Did you reject Faith after accepting it? Then taste the torment (in Hell) for rejecting Faith." And for those whose faces will become white, they will be in Allah's Mercy (Paradise), therein they shall dwell forever.[3: 106-107]
(It will be said): "And O you Mujrimun (criminals, polytheists, sinners, disbelievers in the Islamic Monotheism, wicked evil ones)! Get you apart this Day (from the believers).[36: 59]
format_quote Originally Posted by FollowerOfChrist
Anyway, basically what you're all saying is hating someone is permitted in Islam? Probably someone who is a non-muslim.
Indeed. hatred of evil and love of good is advocated in Islam!
glad you love Hitler and folks who torch others in the night.. it is also nice that your god can love but skewer those whom he allegedly loves on the side. Your religion is confused and confusing.. good luck trying to reconcile all of that to your person -- most Christians simply have very low standards!
all the best
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
format_quote Originally Posted by FollowerOfChrist
Anyway, basically what you're all saying is hating someone is permitted in Islam? Probably someone who is a non-muslim.
Where did you get that from? Your original question was "does God love everybody" right? God is very merciful and forgiving, however it feels almost logical to me that if someone was a rapist or a murderer of innocents, someone who lead a bad astray life, someone who continue'd to disbelieve despite seeing all the signs, how can God possibly open up the gates of Heaven for them?
If he did that, then why would anyone do good in this life? Why would anyone learn to control their deepest/darkest desires, their anger, their hatred? What would be the point if they knew that it doesn't matter since God loves them enough to give them paradise anyways.
It's such a contradicting and illogical thought, this life is a test given by god, He gave Man/Woman complete free will and through the many prophets sent upon a clear message of his divinity and existence, finally through Muhammed (pbuh) - the last prophet, he gave the final message and the true Religion. Now, people would either accept this message and act upon it, in which they would be rewarded or they will go astray from it, in which case they will be punished.
For me the worst part about Christians belief is, they believe Jesus took all their sins and died for them. I remember a Christian man approaching me and telling me, "if you accept Jesus in your heart that he is the son of god, all your past sins are forgiven and you go to paradise"... I was just shocked, I can drink booze, go to jail, steal lots of money, murder innocents and right before my death accept Jesus as the son of god and go straight to Heavan, isn't that easy?
Well, if everybodies saying "God hates anyone who dilberately disobeys him", and according to y'all anyone who isn't a Muslim isn't obeying God. So that was mean (according to Islam) that God hates non-Muslims. That's the interpretation I'm getting. And that's a lot of hatred. I understand now. Thanks.
If He hates non-Muslim, non-Muslim will never co-exist with Muslims.
His Mercy is shown in the prayer of with the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
He guides human with His Mercy, so it's sensible if He punished those who can't see His Mercy
while the Mercy is right in front of their eyes.
Non-Muslims like those in Core countries can oppress poor Muslims.
Most countries where Muslims live are of periphery areas
format_quote Originally Posted by FollowerOfChrist
Well, if everybodies saying "God hates anyone who dilberately disobeys him", and according to y'all anyone who isn't a Muslim isn't obeying God. So that was mean (according to Islam) that God hates non-Muslims. That's the interpretation I'm getting. And that's a lot of hatred. I understand now. Thanks.
So tell me is Adolf Hitler loved as much as the victims of the Holocaust?
Yeah and somebody who DELIBERATELY disobeys God for various reasons eg doesnt believe in God then why does he even care about the love or wrath of God?
Its simple if Person A sins but tries realy hard to repent and afterwards tries to stay away from sin becasue he believes in God - is not the same as the person who sins all day and night without caring about God or humanity and the damage he or she causes. 2 very different people.
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
God loves Hitler because he is one of his children. He loves all his children the same. In Christian theology that is. With that being said, if your biological earthly children grew up to be criminals, would you hate them? And with all due respect, I'm not trying to convert anyone or "promote beliefs other than Islam". I'm just telling you what we (Christians) believe. =)
and what I am understanding from this is if it's okay for God to hate certain people, then it must be okay for Muslims as people to hate other certain people as well. That is anybody disobeys God. And you have to be a Muslim to obey God. So buddhists, wiccans, hindus, atheist, and anybody isn't Muslim, hating them is permitted, since they're not obeying God and he's gonna send all to hell. He hates anybody who he is gonna send to hell right? Enlighten me, please.
format_quote Originally Posted by FollowerOfChrist
God loves Hitler because he is one of his children. He loves all his children the same. In Christian theology that is.
To us, as Muslims, your analogy is faulty, because we do not believe that God is a father and that we are his children. God is the Creator, and we are the created. He is the only One Worthy of worship, and we are His worshippers. He is the One that sent guidance for us, we are supposed to follow it.
The closest analogy that fits, is as I mentioned in post # 52. This world is our test, and we will get our pass or fail marks from Allah on the Day of Judgement (which is true and not an analogy). Imagine if a teacher had a class. Some students worked really hard day and night, some didn't, and some didn't study the specified syllabus but studied whatever they fancied. The hard workers get top marks, the lazy ones get the lowest fail marks, as do those that studied the wrong thing, but the teacher, instead of giving them their correct marks, gives them all distinctions. Can you imagine? The teacher would be sacked, there would be national outcry as to how unjust and stupid the teacher is, and the school would be blacklisted. How would those who worked hard feel, knowing that those who did nothing have been given the same marks? Why did they bother working so hard? They would demand justice, and rightfully so.
We cannot ascribe such unjust behaviour to Allah. While Allah is Loving and Forgiving, He is also Severe in punishment, yet He is Fair and Firm. Such is the perfectly balanced nature of Allah.
Unlike the scenario, Allah is not unjust in the least bit. Those who work hard and try their utmost to obey Allah and follow the guidance He sent, will not be treated the same as those who don't.
format_quote Originally Posted by FollowerOfChrist
if it's okay for God to hate certain people,
Nowhere in the Qur'an does Allah say he hates certain people in this world. He tells us those He loves and the acts they do, e.g. those who are God Fearing, follow the Prophet (peace be upon him), etc, and tells us those He does not love, and acts He does not love. Not having love for someone does not equate to hate. Naturally, believers will want to attain Allah's love, so will do righteous acts while avoiding wrong ones that He does not love.
We as Muslims do not hate people on the basis of their religion, on the contrary we desire guidance for them, as we do not want to see them achieve a bad mark in the exam, hence we tell them about Islam.
That is why Allah repeatedly sent Messengers to guide and warn mankind, because He wanted them to obey the guidance, and thus be successful in the hereafter.
Allah is going to be the One administering the Judgement, not us, and if He did hate someone, then with Him being the most Just, He would do so for a reason, such as the persons erroneous beliefs/wrong deeds. And the similarly the person He loves would be fully deserving of God's love. He would not be unjust in the least bit.
As to hate being allowed, it has not been forbidden when the circumstances warrant it, e.g. God forbid if someone was raping a female relative of yours, while you may say, "I hate the sin you did, but boy, do I love you the same as my mum!" I would not feel that way, and I would most likely feel at least a small amount of hate, which is a natural human reaction. Allah does not expect us to have irrational or unnatural emotions, but emotions that fit the situation appropriately, and are controlled. And that in itself is a blessing indeed.
Hope that enlightened you a bit.
Peace.
Last edited by Insaanah; 10-22-2010 at 03:35 PM.
Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").
This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)
Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)
format_quote Originally Posted by FollowerOfChrist
God loves Hitler because he is one of his children. He loves all his children the same. In Christian theology that is. With that being said, if your biological earthly children grew up to be criminals, would you hate them? And with all due respect, I'm not trying to convert anyone or "promote beliefs other than Islam". I'm just telling you what we (Christians) believe. =)
and what I am understanding from this is if it's okay for God to hate certain people, then it must be okay for Muslims as people to hate other certain people as well. That is anybody disobeys God. And you have to be a Muslim to obey God. So buddhists, wiccans, hindus, atheist, and anybody isn't Muslim, hating them is permitted, since they're not obeying God and he's gonna send all to hell. He hates anybody who he is gonna send to hell right? Enlighten me, please.
show us where it says God hates people in the Quran?
So God loves Hitler according to christianty - must be proud of him for killing 6 million Jews. God also must hate people in christainty for not accepting christainty - eternal punishment of hellfire doesnt seem to be love now does it - enlighten us on that one?
Oh and by the way your saying that God loves the rapist as much as the person who doesnt rape? what type of belief is that?
Last edited by Zafran; 10-24-2010 at 04:24 AM.
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
format_quote Originally Posted by FollowerOfChrist
God loves Hitler because he is one of his children. He loves all his children the same. In Christian theology that is. With that being said, if your biological earthly children grew up to be criminals, would you hate them? And with all due respect, I'm not trying to convert anyone or "promote beliefs other than Islam". I'm just telling you what we (Christians) believe. =)
Ok, so according to you and all other christians, jesus loves so me so much, but he will **** me to hell for eternity anyway,and that's because he loves me so much.
Ok, so according to you and all other christians, jesus loves so me so much, but he will **** me to hell for eternity anyway,and that's because he loves me so much.
it reminds me of an old question : If Christians believe God loves all , then why He created hell ?
Christ will never be proud to reject to be a slave to God .....holy Quran, chapter Women , 4: 172
God also must hate people in christainty for not accepting christainty
I wouldnt be suprised if this barking-born-again-cultist also says that God also hates also those people who believed in him but lived before birth of Jesus, the Cruci-fiction and Paulanity came into existence 2000 years ago
When truth is hurled at falsehood , falsehood perishes. because falsehood by its nature is bound to perish [21:18- Holy quran]
format_quote Originally Posted by FollowerOfChrist
I could of sworn you guys were using verses from the NT to prove Jesus never claimed to be God. What's the point of that if you believed the gospel's been changed. And ya'll also try to use the NT to prove Jesus never said eat unclean foods to me in the other thread. I don't know why ya'll constantly quote things from the NT then to prove stuff to us (Christians). Anyway, that's why I could never convert to Islam. There's no way God could hate anyone.
Then why are those who reject Christ condemned to dam-nation? I thought God loves all according to you?
Last edited by Hamza Asadullah; 10-24-2010 at 12:04 AM.
You all made me come to the conclusion hating the infedels is permitted in your religion. Not only that but that you should hate the infedel because (1). They're not obeying god. and (2). They're going to hell. You see our scriptures don't support that idea because in the NT Jesus also said "If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." Verses like that indicate that's not true. I also like how you guys pick and choose what we got from Paganism and what verses of the bible are accurate and inaccurate. Yes, the "Christian God" loves everyone. Love and tolerate are two different things.
Vale's, excuse me for not seeing your previous post. Sure those "Christian holidays" have pagan origins, but they're entirely unbiblical. The whole "Christianity came from Paganism" arguement coming from Muslims still amuses me. For those complaining about Christians on this site, there's plenty of Muslims that post on Catholic and Christians forums also. I have an interest in understanding other religions, not just mine. I'm not trying to bash your religion, lol. I'm just trying to see it for what it really is. IMO, the Christian philosophy of love sounds more peaceful. It is what it is though.
format_quote Originally Posted by FollowerOfChrist
I'm just trying to see it for what it really is.
It certainly doesn't look like you are trying to.
Because despite repeated answers to your questions (see my post at the bottom of page 6) plus my other posts before it, and some posts by others, you still insist on what you want to believe about Islam.
format_quote Originally Posted by FollowerOfChrist
You all made me come to the conclusion hating the infedels is permitted in your religion.
No we didn't. I have answered this as well.
It seems, from your various posts, even after all the replies given in this thread that you have no desire to even try to understand, but rather to just enforce your own beliefs as being correct.
As such I am begining to wander what the point is in leaving the thread open. Your question has been answered repeatedly and more than adequately. If you really have a desire to learn, you need to let go of your prejudices and read.
Peace.
Last edited by Insaanah; 10-24-2010 at 09:47 AM.
Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").
This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)
Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)
format_quote Originally Posted by FollowerOfChrist
The Christian motto is "Love the sinner, hate the sin."
What's the difference between the sin and the sinner? Only difference is one has a soul. One has the ability to commit evil and the other is just evil waiting to be committed. So essentially they're the same, both bad.
What is a human's value if he doesn't repent from his sins? Nothing.
In Islam Allah tells us we are humans that commit evil acts, but through repentance He forgives us. If we commit these evil acts without repentance, then we eventually become black-hearted towards the smaller sins and continue onwards with larger sins. Life without repentance ruins your character and humility.
You can't put Allah and his worshipers in the same category. Allah judges us on our intentions and worship (good deeds, obligations etc.), whereas we are have no authority or capabilities of judging another person on such basis since we can't see their intentions, what lurks deep inside their hearts, or what they do privately. We instead judge other human beings by their interactions with us-- the things that we can see and what they tell us. Now whether Allah loves nonMuslims or not, He still allows us to show kindness to them. He gives us the power to protect ourselves if harm is afflicted upon us by those who aren't Muslim, but defense is not necessarily hatred or intolerance. We are also given the choice between mercy, justice, kindness, and hatred based on what we experience with others, so we absolutely can forgive those who hurt us if we wanted, it's not discouraged to do so. Allah, on the other hand, tells us that He hates those who disobey Him and those who reject Him and the religion He's ordered us to follow, and when the time comes, He will punish them accordingly. So just because Allah hates someone, does not mean we are told we also must hate that individual, unless the individula is afflicting constant harm upon us.
Also you mentioned God does not have the capability of hating...God has all capabilites, He can do whatever He wants, so who are you to say what he can or cannot do? You're merely a human.
We are not restricted to expressing our feelings, we just have limits, whereas you don't. We are allowed to hate and love, but we have to be justified in those emotions, it's impossible to show one emotion and not the other, we are not made that way. If I killed your wife, you may forgive me and still love me...if I then killed your son, you may also forgive me and still love me, but if I kept doing this until all of your loved ones were brutally killed right before your eyes, you cannot truthfully sit here and tell me you will allow me to continue inflicting such harm on your family or even that you will "forgive and love me" all of eternity. If you were able to do that then there's really something wrong with you for not standing up and helping your family, because any sane mind would do something or feel something at that point other than "love and forgiveness". This is logic.
format_quote Originally Posted by FollowerOfChrist
IMO, the Christian philosophy of love sounds more peaceful. It is what it is though.
I'm sorry but this statement of yours does not go well with your name. 90+ replies and you still unable to find any thing, I count it our bad. Please spare my brothers and sisters on this thread as we do not have any thing else to offer. Going round and round in circles will take us nowhere but get us exhausted.
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What's the point of that if you believed the gospel's been changed. And ya'll also try to use the NT to prove Jesus never said eat unclean foods to me in the other thread. I don't know why ya'll constantly quote things from the NT then to prove stuff to us (Christians). Anyway, that's why I could never convert to Islam. There's no way God could hate anyone.
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