I am a white british guy with no religion, so when I read that the Koran tells muslims to "kill the infidel" (the unbeliever) it makes me think- do they want to kill me?
Reading the wikipedia page for At Tawba 5, it seems to be saying that muslims should only kill infidels if the infidel has attacked them first, or has "broken a treaty", whatever that means.
The trouble with this is that it is unclear what is the reality of the situation here. Can you explain please in exactly what circumatances I (an infidel) should be killed?
For example if I am the boss of a muslim and I make him redundant, he might think I have broken a treaty and must be killed. Is this right? What about if a muslim is evicted from his house because the local council has decided to run a railway line over the land? Will the council leader lose his life?
There are some white people in the UK who believe all muslims (not just the suicide bombers) are under an obligation to kill them, and from what I have seen muslims themselves are not effectively communicating the reality of At Tawba 5. Due to the economic downturn I can foresee a rise in right-wing political attitudes (BNP) in this country, and I am afraid muslims are going to be treated badly as a result.
Short of hiring PR guru Max Clifford, what can muslims do to resolve all white peoples' concerns about Islam, and so reduce the effect of bad policy like the BNP on the general population.
Or if you are trying to kill us all, it would be nice to be forewarned
Re: Kill the infidel, says the Koran. But what does this really mean?
A few things to help remove some obvious misconception.
I'm Muslim and I sort of look a bit whitish. At least everybody I know thinks I am white until I tell them I am mostly Oriental (Mongoloid), My wife and myself are the only Muslims in a 200 mile radius. We are the only Muslims the people in this region have ever seen. My wife is Native American, of the Cheyenne Nation. If people who see us assume we represent Islam, they have to come to the conclusion that at least 50% of Muslims are white.
A very large percentage of Muslims are white, in some areas we are the majority of the Muslims. Islam is not for people of any pigmentation it is for all people.
As far as killing infidels, when we live in a country we are bound to follow the laws of the country as long as we are there. If it is illegal to kill infidels in the country we live, we can not kill them.
Next point we are obligated to live in peace with all people. going around and killing people because they do not believe as we do is not a very peaceful way to live with them. so we do not have any justification in killing anybody except out of protection.
While wikipedia is often very helpful, sometimes reality differs from what is written there. Our attitude and teaching is like this:
“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever you catch them and drive them out from whence they drove you out, for terrorism is worse than killing. But do not engage in combat with them at the sacred mosque unless they engage you in combat there. But if they combat against you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And combat them on until there is no more terrorism or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. But if they cease, don't let there be hostility except to those who practice oppression.”
[Surah al-Baqarah: 190-193]
No where in the Qur'an or Ahadith are we told it is permitted to kill non-believers, unless they have waged war against us and it is the only option. Even then we have to give them a chance to stop their hostilities.
Re: Kill the infidel, says the Koran. But what does this really mean?
Look mate if you're EDL just say so. Simple answer to your question: killing the infidels is talking about war, you know in war, when you kill people
and btw why mention 'white' people, why not people in general
plenty of 'white' people are muslims
He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}] www.QuranicAudio.com www.Quran.com
Re: Kill the infidel, says the Koran. But what does this really mean?
Hi neil
I think you're such a cool guy to join this forum and ask us questions about Islam, since it shows you are open minded and wanting to understand things from the Muslim's perspective, a perspective which is hardly shown on the media.
So thankyou once again.
I humbly request you check this article out to get a better understanding of Islam and Non Muslims;
Re: Kill the infidel, says the Koran. But what does this really mean?
if the common media misconception were true and muslims were obligated to "kill all infidels" - no prophet would have had followers except those who were already believers, and the fact is that most of the Prophet's companions were ex-pagan - so they would've been killed without mercy - and many became interested in Islam from seeing the intense persecution meted out by the Meccan leaders to those who said that none is worthy of subservience but Almighty God.
and the fact that the Islamic State ruled over large non-Muslim territories is somehow pushed under the table when pushing this absurdity,
peace,
abz
Re: Kill the infidel, says the Koran. But what does this really mean?
format_quote Originally Posted by neil9327
I am a white british guy with no religion, so when I read that the Koran tells muslims to "kill the infidel" (the unbeliever) it makes me think- do they want to kill me?
Reading the wikipedia page for At Tawba 5, it seems to be saying that muslims should only kill infidels if the infidel has attacked them first, or has "broken a treaty", whatever that means.
The trouble with this is that it is unclear what is the reality of the situation here. Can you explain please in exactly what circumatances I (an infidel) should be killed?
For example if I am the boss of a muslim and I make him redundant, he might think I have broken a treaty and must be killed. Is this right? What about if a muslim is evicted from his house because the local council has decided to run a railway line over the land? Will the council leader lose his life?
There are some white people in the UK who believe all muslims (not just the suicide bombers) are under an obligation to kill them, and from what I have seen muslims themselves are not effectively communicating the reality of At Tawba 5. Due to the economic downturn I can foresee a rise in right-wing political attitudes (BNP) in this country, and I am afraid muslims are going to be treated badly as a result.
Short of hiring PR guru Max Clifford, what can muslims do to resolve all white peoples' concerns about Islam, and so reduce the effect of bad policy like the BNP on the general population.
Or if you are trying to kill us all, it would be nice to be forewarned
Hi niel!
all that should be understood in the war context where Muslims are allowed to fight back in defense
and the 'treaty' is reference to a peace treaty, where the peace treaty is broken by the non-Muslims and resumes their agression towards Muslims again, so you'll be safe if you sack someone from work, but who knows, nowadays, with so many crackpots about, they may get you anyway!
Re: Kill the infidel, says the Koran. But what does this really mean?
Dear Brother,
Those types of verses are about the infidels fighting against Islam and acting in hostility. Otherwise Quran tells us to deal kindly and justly:
Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just. Quran 60/8
“An hour’s reflective thought is better than a year’s worship” Hadith
"We Muslims, who are students of the Qur’an, follow proof; we approach the truths of belief through reason, thought, and our hearts. " Bediuzzaman Said Nursi
Re: Kill the infidel, says the Koran. But what does this really mean?
format_quote Originally Posted by neil9327
For example if I am the boss of a muslim and I make him redundant, he might think I have broken a treaty and must be killed. Is this right? What about if a muslim is evicted from his house because the local council has decided to run a railway line over the land? Will the council leader lose his life?
Brother , It about wars not what you talking , what will you do if you have war and your enemy try to kill you and your house and family , and the war is imposed unjustify to you , you want peace buy enemy donot , at the last resort Allah allowed muslim to fight with those people
8. Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly andjustly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.
9. Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) indriving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). Itis such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.
killling innocent being (irrespective of muslim or non muslim) is one of the biggest sin in Islam. killing one innocent is just like you killed whole of humanity.
Quran says in Surah 5 verse 32
"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreadingmischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and ifany one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the wholepeople. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs,yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in theland.
Hopefully , these verses of the Quran clarifies you to whom we should fight and whom we cannot. and dont pay attention to those people who just quotes thing out of context and some time wrong text and try to say that Islam allow to kill non muslim. Islam does not allow to kill innocent peropler whether muslim or non muslim , and treat them well and good.
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, It about wars not what you talking , what will you do if you have war and your enemy try to kill you and your house and family , and the war is imposed unjustify to you , you want peace buy enemy donot , at the last resort Allah allowed muslim to fight with those people
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