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The First of Many Questions

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    The First of Many Questions

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    Greetings

    I would like to begin by saying that my questions are in no way, shape, or form intended to antagonize. My only intent is to increase my knowledge, so that I may hopefully find my way to the righteous path. I am not here as an enemy; I come to all of you as a friend.

    As I mentioned in my introduction, I am a non-Muslim who is seeking knowledge about the beautiful faith that is Islam. I want to make sure that if/when I say Shahada I have absolutely no doubt in my heart.

    One thing that I am having a particularly difficult time grasping is Kiraman Katibin. Please correct me if I am mistaken, but it is my understanding that this refers to two angels who record a person's actions and thoughts, and on the Day of Judgement they will report these records to God.

    For the sake of brevity, I will condense my questions about this topic to three queries:
    1) Do these angels rest upon a person's shoulders in a literal or figurative sense?
    2) Why does God need these angels to record our actions when he is all knowing?
    3) For these angels to report our actions to God, would not that require God to be present in one place at that moment? Wouldn't this require a sort of duality of God?

    I beg of you to forgive my ignorance, and I would like to repeat that it is not my intention to offend or antagonize anyone who should read this.

    Thank You
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    Re: The First of Many Questions

    What you're asking of is about the nature of the angels in general. Once you understand their importance and function then it will be easier to know the answer to your questions.

    First off, the angels are made out of light, just like Jinn are made out of fire and humans are made out of clay. We humans may be made out of clay, but we definitely are very different from clay. Thus, clay only really means that we are made from the substance, not that we are the substance. If a creature from outer space made out of, let's say, a gas, were to find out that humans are made out of a clay, then they would have a hard time imagining that themselves and would imagine some ghoulish looking beings that arose out of puddles of mud or clay itself. This is not the case. Similarly, angels are made out of light, but this does not mean that is exactly what they are. It only means they were fashioned from it somehow, just like jinn are made from fire, but they need no necessarily be the embodiment of fire.

    My point is that angels are very different beings and we really don't know what their physical nature is. Therefore, when we learn that they record our deeds sitting on our shoulders, this does not mean they look or are shaped like us. It can't ever mean that because they are very different from us. Here is the Hadith about what humans, jinn and angels are made out of:

    'A'isha reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: The angels were born out of light and the Jinns were born out of the spark of fire and Adam was born as he has been defined (in the Qur'an) for you (i. e. he is fashioned out of clay). (Book #042, Hadith #7134)
    (Sahih Muslim)

    Now, to see why I am saying that angels are not shaped like us, it is because of the example of Jibril (as). He came in the form of a man sometimes:

    It is narrated on the authority of Jabir that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: There appeared before me the apostles, and Moses was among men as if he was one of the people of Shanu'a, and I saw Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon him) and I saw nearest in resemblance with him was 'Urwa b. Mas'ud, and I saw Ibrahim (blessings of Allah be upon him) and I see your companions much in resemblance with him, i. e. his personality, and I saw Gabriel (peace be upon him) and I saw Dihya nearest in resemblance to him; but in the narration of Ibn Rumh it is Dihya b. Khalifa. (Book #001, Hadith #0321)
    (Sahih Muslim)

    At another time he saw that Gabriel (as) looked like a man that sat down with the group of the Sahaba of the Holy Prophet (saw), and he was not familiar to anyone. He looked like someone who had no signs of traveling on him. Notice how he looks different, not like Dihya al-Kalbi here in resemblance:

    It is narrated on the authority of Yahya b. Ya'mur that the first man who discussed about Qadr (Divine Decree) in Basra was Ma'bad al-Juhani. I along with Humaid b. 'Abdur-Rahman Himyari set out for prilgrimage or for 'Umrah and said: Should it so happen that we come into contact with one of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) we shall ask him a bout what is talked about Taqdir (Division Decree). Accidentally we came across Abdullah ibn Umar ibn al-Khattab, while he was entering the mosque. My companion and I surrounded him. One of us (stood) on his right and the other stood on his left. I expected that my companion would authorize me to speak. I therefore said: Abu Abdur Rahman! there have appeared some people in our land who recite the Holy Qur'an and pursue knowledge. And then after talking about their affairs, added: They (such people) claim that there is no such thing as Divine Decree and events are not predestined. He (Abdullah ibn Umar) said: When you happen to meet such people tell them that I have nothing to do with them and they have nothing to do with me. And verily they are in no way responsible for my (belief). Abdullah ibn Umar swore by Him (the Lord) (and said): If any one of them (who does not believe in the Divine Decree) had with him gold equal to the bulk of (the mountain) Uhud and then, it (in the way of Allah), Allah would not accept it unless he affirmed his faith in Divine Decree. He further said: My father, Umar ibn al-Khattab, told me: One day we were sitting in the company of Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) when there appeared before us a man dressed in pure white clothes, his hair extraordinarily black. There were no signs of travel on him. None amongst us recognized him. At last he sat with the Apostle (peace be upon him) He knelt before him placed his palms on his thighs and said: Muhammad, inform me about al-Islam. The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: Al-Islam implies that you testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and you establish prayer, pay Zakat, observe the fast of Ramadan, and perform pilgrimage to the (House) if you are solvent enough (to bear the expense of) the journey. He (the inquirer) said: You have told the truth. He (Umar ibn al-Khattab) said: It amazed us that he would put the question and then he would himself verify the truth. He (the inquirer) said: Inform me about Iman (faith). He (the Holy Prophet) replied: That you affirm your faith in Allah, in His angels, in His Books, in His Apostles, in the Day of Judgment, and you affirm your faith in the Divine Decree about good and evil. He (the inquirer) said: You have told the truth. He (the inquirer) again said: Inform me about al-Ihsan (performance of good deeds). He (the Holy Prophet) said: That you worship Allah as if you are seeing Him, for though you don't see Him, He, verily, sees you. He (the enquirer) again said: Inform me about the hour (of the Doom). He (the Holy Prophet) remarked: One who is asked knows no more than the one who is inquiring (about it). He (the inquirer) said: Tell me some of its indications. He (the Holy Prophet) said: That the slave-girl will give birth to her mistress and master, that you will find barefooted, destitute goat-herds vying with one another in the construction of magnificent buildings. He (the narrator, Umar ibn al-Khattab) said: Then he (the inquirer) went on his way but I stayed with him (the Holy Prophet) for a long while. He then, said to me: Umar, do you know who this inquirer was? I replied: Allah and His Apostle knows best. He (the Holy Prophet) remarked: He was Gabriel (the angel). He came to you in order to instruct you in matters of religion. (Book #001, Hadith #0001)
    (Sahih Muslim)

    In another narration, Jibril (as) is seen with six hundred wings. ---

    Al-Shaibini reported to us: I asked Zirr b. Hubaish about the words of Allah (the Mighty and Great):" So he was (at a distance) of two bows or nearer" (al-Qur'an, Iiii 8). He said: Ibn Mas'ud informed me that, verily, the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) saw Gabriel and he had six hundred wings. (Book #001, Hadith#0330)
    (Sahih Muslim)

    Narrated Aisha: Whoever claimed that (the Prophet) Muhammad saw his Lord, is committing a great fault, for he only saw Gabriel in his genuine shape in which he was created covering the whole horizon. (Book #54, Hadith #457)
    (Sahih Bukhari)

    In another Hadith it explains that this was like seeing come green carpet cover the sky:

    Narrated Abdullah: Regarding the Verse: "Indeed he (Muhammad) did see. Of the Signs of his Lord, The Greatest!" (53.18) That the Prophet had seen a green carpet spread all over the horizon of the sky. (Book#54, Hadith #456)
    (Sahih Bukhari)

    In another narration, when the Holy Prophet (saw) first saw Jibril (as), he saw him sitting between Heaven and Earth.

    Narrated Aisha: (the wife of the Prophet) The commencement (of the Divine Inspiration) to Allah's Apostle was in the form of true dreams in his sleep, for he never had a dream but it turned out to be true and clear as the bright daylight. Then he began to like seclusions, so he used to go in seclusion in the cave of Hira where he used to worship Allah continuously for many nights before going back to his family to take the necessary provision (of food) for the stay. He come back to (his wife) Khadija again to take his provision (of food) likewise, till one day he received the Guidance while he was in the cave of Hira. An Angel came to him and asked him to read. Allah's Apostle replied, "I do not know how to read." The Prophet added, "Then the Angel held me (forcibly) and pressed me so hard that I felt distressed. Then he released me and again asked me to read, and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he held me again and pressed me for the second time till I felt distressed. He then released me and asked me to read, but again I replied. 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he held me for the third time and pressed me till I got distressed, and then he released me and said, 'Read, in the Name of your Lord Who has created (all that exists), has created man out of a clot, Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous. Who has taught (the writing) by the pen, has taught man that which he knew not." (96.1-5). Then Allah's Apostle returned with that experience; and the muscles between his neck and shoulders were trembling till he came upon Khadija (his wife) and said, "Cover me!" They covered him, and when the state of fear was over, he said to Khadija, "O Khadija! What is wrong with me? I was afraid that something bad might happen to me." Then he told her the story. Khadija said, "Nay! But receive the good tidings! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you, for by Allah, you keep good relations with your Kith and kin, speak the truth, help the poor and the destitute, entertain your guests generously and assist those who are stricken with calamities." Khadija then took him to Waraqa bin Naufil, the son of Khadija's paternal uncle. Waraqa had been converted to Christianity in the Pre-lslamic Period and used to write Arabic and write of the Gospel in Arabic as much as Allah wished him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadija said (to Waraqa), "O my cousin! Listen to what your nephew is going to say." Waraqa said, "O my nephew! What have you seen?" The Prophet then described whatever he had seen. Waraqa said, "This is the same Angel (Gabriel) who was sent to Moses. I wish I were young." He added some other statement. Allah's Apostle asked, "Will these people drive me out?" Waraqa said, "Yes, for nobody brought the like of what you have brought, but was treated with hostility. If I were to remain alive till your day (when you start preaching). then I would support you strongly." But a short while later Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was paused (stopped) for a while so that Allah's Apostle was very much grieved. Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: While Allah's Apostle was talking about the period of pause in revelation. he said in his narration. "Once while I was walking, all of a sudden I heard a voice from the sky. I looked up and saw to my surprise, the same Angel as had visited me in the cave of Hira.' He was sitting on a chair between the sky and the earth. I got afraid of him and came back home and said, Wrap me! Wrap me!" So they covered him and then Allah revealed: 'O you, wrapped up! Arise and warn and your Lord magnify, and your garments purify and dessert the idols.' (74.1-5) Abu Salama said, "(Rijz) are the idols which the people of the Pre-lslamic period used to worship." After this the revelation started coming frequently and regularly. (Book #60, Hadith #478)
    (Sahih Bukhari)

    Interestingly, angels could have any number of wings, as it is said in the Holy Qur'an:

    35:1 All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the (only) Originator [or the (Only) Creator] of the heavens and the earth, Who made the angels messengers with wings, two or three or four. He increases in creation what He wills. Verily, Allah is Able to do all things.

    This is just about the very nature of angels. They are unlike us. ---

    --- There is a Hadith in which Allah asks the angels questions, and the Hadith says itself that Allah asks them even though He knows the answer Himself already. The Qur'an says in it at some places that Allah is sufficient as a witness. This means Allah witnesses everything, despite employing angels.

    Thus, the angels --- record even though Allah is All-Knowing because they are entrusted with the management and supervision of the affairs of the physical world (79:5).

    As for the third question, --- He knows everything despite the angels recording on His behalf. So there is no duality to God. I hope that was clear, maybe I didn't understand your third question correctly.
    Last edited by Muhammad; 05-17-2013 at 01:46 PM. Reason: We have to be careful about saying things without knowledge, and some information was not correct
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    Re: The First of Many Questions

    These are questions that you will most probably never get absolute answer as there is no way we can answer them with complete authority.

    ---
    Q2 - God does not 'need' the angels to record things. He just gave them the task to do so. Like the angel of death.
    Q3 - God is something our mind cannot grasp in terms of His 'Being'. To know him it is best to study His names. We cannot picture Him.

    Not satisfactory answers but it is not a simple question.
    Last edited by Muhammad; 05-17-2013 at 01:49 PM. Reason: Some information may not have been correct and its better to check that before posting in sha Allaah
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    Re: The First of Many Questions

    Thank you for your responses. They were both quite helpful. And yes, greenhill, I agree that I began my time on this forum with an exceedingly complex question .

    You're responses have led me to a follow up question, if you will be so kind to indulge me:

    What are the limits of personal interpretation of the Holy Qur'an? I have read that some scholars insist that any amount of interpretation is blasphemy. Though I understand and appreciate that everyone wants to protect the purity of the Holy Qur'an, how does one stay true to it's teachings without committing heresy, and at the same time avoid the influence of mere human beings who, despite their influential positions, may have themselves unintentionally corrupted the teachings of the Qur'an?

    For example, Al-Ghazali (sp?) seems to believe that Adam was a particular individual. Other great thinkers, like Muhammad Iqbal seem to suggest that Adam is the symbol of a concept; the concept of self-conscious humanity. Can one hold either one of these types of interpretations without being a bad Muslim?

    For example, some thinkers believe that God participates directly in our reality. Others believe that this is impossible because that would require God to be subject to our notion of time and our imperfect concepts of cause and effect. Personally, I lean towards the latter statement because I feel that the pointless minutia of our daily existence is not worthy of God's attention, but the content of our hearts (i.e our intent) is of concern to Him, but I am fearful of committing blasphemy.

    I know that I am treading in murky waters, but I feel that this is the journey I must travel before I can truly submit myself to God. I am not being difficult for the sake of being difficult.

    Thank you for your patience.
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    Re: The First of Many Questions

    Peace.

    Have you read the Quran? Easier still, read the 25 muslim prophets starting from Adam through to Muhammad (peace be to them all). That will give a 'feel good' factor and a kind of 'purpose' for humans. And then read the Quran. There's one on this forum.

    In the Quran it describes the creation of Adam ---. So Adam (pbuh) is real.

    Allah is Great, (outside this forum I would perhaps say God, but in this Islamic Forum I will say Allah) He has no beginning, no ending. He could wait infinitely for our short span of time on earth that when we research back with all our science we will find what He created. --- He is well aware of us. Yes, intention is the key, moderation is the practice, but it must be followed up with action.
    Last edited by Muhammad; 05-18-2013 at 12:01 AM. Reason: Removed some sentences which seemed questionable
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    Re: The First of Many Questions

    From now on I will say Allah. As a non-Muslim I wasn't sure if it was appropriate to do so, which is why I used God instead. Hopefully I did not offend anyone, and I absolutely was NOT suggesting polytheism.

    Thank you for the response, greenhill. When you say "read the 25 muslim prophets starting from Adam through to Muhammad (peace be to them all)," what do you mean? Are there writings available from each of those Prophets (peace be to them all)? If so, that would be an invaluable resource!

    I have read some of the Qur'an, but I'm not even going to pretend to have a thorough knowledge of the text .

    I think all of my anxieties boil down to this: Can I be a good Muslim if I only focus on the core aspects of the faith, and pay less attention to the seemingly endless philosophical and metaphysical debates?

    My gut tells me that there are some things that we (humans) are just not meant to know in this life, and that all of my questions will be answered when Allah wants them to be answered. Does anyone else share this feeling?

    One last thing:
    "...intention is the key, moderation is the practice, but it must be followed up with action."
    Well said. This is great advice not just for Muslims, but for all of humanity.

    Thank you
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    Re: The First of Many Questions

    Greetings the_stranger,

    I think you have provided the best answer to your questions. Focusing on the core aspects of Islam and its foundations is the best thing to do. Delving too much into philosophy and its like has led some Muslims to hold heretical beliefs in the past, where they have totally neglected the authentic teachings of Islam. There are enough issues of far greater importance to dedicate our time to, than those which will not yield any benefit and indeed could cause harm.

    Regarding the interpretation of the Qur'an, studying the science of tafseer will give you a greater understanding and appreciation of this. Here are a couple of threads that touch on the issue, but please be aware that the only proper way to study is through structured learning from the people of knowledge:

    http://www.islamicboard.com/quran/53...y-tafseer.html
    http://www.islamicboard.com/quran/49...performed.html
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    Re: The First of Many Questions

    Thank you, Muhammad.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Muhammad View Post
    here are enough issues of far greater importance to dedicate our time to, than those which will not yield any benefit and indeed could cause harm.
    I found these words particularly helpful.

    In order to further my knowledge, I would like to play devil's advocate for a moment:
    An excerpt from the Holy Qur'an 3:6
    [SIZE=2.2]"But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah.[/SIZE]"

    As someone who is still quite unfamiliar with Islam, this seems to mean that Allah doesn't want us (humans) adding our two-cents to His Book.

    I feel like each time I take a step closer to Islam, I get pushed away (not to imply that any Muslim has been unwelcoming, which is certainly not the case, I mean that each question seems to bring about ten more). I'm going crazy :grumbling!
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    Re: The First of Many Questions

    Glad to be of help, the_stranger,

    My reply was edited so some of what I said was removed. No prob, though. Yes, I agree with what you said and that of Muhammad above.

    Yes there are available books on the prophets of Islam either individual books, several volumes or a single big volume. ---

    Your 'gut feeling' is something I share. And yes, you can be a good muslim by keeping things simple. The simplest thing (most fundamental) is the Shahada, believing in Allah and Muhammad (pbuh) is His messenger and the Quran is, word for word, Allah's Words.

    The way I look at the 5 pillars (in no particular order) - The Shahada is once and for a lifetime. The Hajj, once in a lifetime if able. Zakat, once every year. Fasting, a month every year. Only the 5 daily prayers is a requirement that is constant. So actually not so difficult, but not necessarily easy depending where you are.
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    Re: The First of Many Questions

    Greetings,

    Allaah has revealed the Qur'an as a book of guidance for all of mankind. It is upon us to study it and make an effort to understand His message to the best of our ability. It is not for us to add our personal opinions that do not have any basis for them, because we would be saying about Allaah that which we have no knowledge of. The goal is to understand His message, not invent our own.

    [This is] a blessed Book which We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], that they might reflect upon its verses and that those of understanding would be reminded. [38:29]


    Regarding the verse you quoted, it lays down some important principles:

    It is He Who has sent down to you the Book. In it are verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book; and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow (only) that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah, and seeking its Ta'weel, but none knows its Ta'weel except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; all of it is from our Lord.'' And none receive admonition except men of understanding. [3:7]

    The entirely clear verses (muhkam) are those which are clear in meaning and cannot be distorted or misunderstood. This applies to most of the verses of the Qur’an. They are referred to as the 'foundations of the Book'. As for the verses which are not entirely clear (mutashaabih), they are those verses that are not clear in meaning by themselves (or they are not entirely clear for many, or some people), and in order to properly understand them, it is necessary to look at them in light of the clear verses.

    In the part that you quoted above, the word translated as 'explanation' (ta'weel) can have more than one meaning, and the verse can be read to reflect either meaning. Those verses which are not entirely clear can be understood from one perspective but they cannot be understood from another perspective (from the perspective of the actuality of these verses). You can get some idea of what is meant by referring to this commentary of the verse here:
    http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?opt...562&Itemid=888
    The main point I wanted to make is that each verse will have its context and we have to be careful of misinterpretation. The more we learn about the Qur'an and its sciences, the more we can understand its meanings.

    I hope this has helped and not caused further confusion. Take things step by step and deal with the most important issues first. Once you have the foundations, then everything else will fall into place, God-willing.

    And Allaah knows best.
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    Re: The First of Many Questions

    Thank you again, Muhammad and greenhill. If I am ever able to learn how to be a believer, then the advice that both of you have given will not go to waste.

    But.........

    I don't think I am capable of being a believer, at least not at the same level as so many other people on this planet. It is important to note that what I have posted here over the last few days is only a tiny fraction of what I am struggling with. Maybe it's a personality flaw, or some kind of crippling emotional problem, but it is difficult for me to believe in anything. Like my belief in God*, for example. I didn't accept that I fully believed in God until earlier this year. I am 27 years old. I didn't spend my entire life up to that point not believing in God intentionally, but instead I spent all of that time trying to believe in God, and failing. Now that I am able to hold a belief in God, I find that my notion of God is very different than that of most major religions and, it seems, Islam as well. Let me elaborate:

    I came to believe in God by acknowledging that my perception of reality is incredibly flawed at best. For example, I have had dreams that felt so real that I could not distinguish them from waking life. I have smelled aromas that bring about such powerful memory that I can feel a specific taste in my mouth. I have seen objects from a distance that upon closer inspection turned out to be something completely different from what I was so certain of. I have come home from very cold winter days and had my hands scalded by tepid water. Basically, I have proven to myself time and again that the senses I have been equipped with are enough to survive in this world, but surely not enough to understand this world.

    This alone is not enough for me to believe in God, and to do so I have to go a step further. At this point I have accepted that my concept of reality is really nothing more than a series of coincidences that my mind is able to weld together into something I can call life. So, for now, I have to throw my concept of reality into the garbage. When I do this I find that I am left with one thing: an innate understanding of good. Regardless of whether I am awake, dreaming, or somewhere in between, this idea is with me. So, I have to ask my self, where did this innate idea come from? It surely wasn't learned through my bodily senses, for if it was it would be subject to the same confusion and changes that my senses experience.

    This is where I arrive at the notion of God. I feel that my innate understanding of goodness comes from God. And I feel that this understanding of goodness is not contained in my brain and my thoughts, but in my soul. I believe in God. I believe that I have a soul, or more specifically, I believe that I am my soul. My body is merely a tool that I use to navigate this reality.

    So, now I have to consider the nature of God, and how I relate to God. This is where the train goes off the rails, as far as religion is concerned. I'll try to be brief, as this post is already way too long and verbose.

    I'll use justice as an example, as many people smarter than I have done before. In our reality, we speak of justice and we try our best to approximate justice, but we cannot define or apply justice. We are really good at working with laws, but true justice is something that eludes us. To me, God works at the level of justice. I feel that God works with the essence of things: justice, knowledge, mercy, happiness, life, etc. I just cannot conceive of God working with things that are real to me. My reality only exists as it is perceived through my imperfect senses. To include God directly in my reality I would have to subject Him to constant imperfection, which cannot happen. God is infinite perfection. I can't say that God is directly and personally causing the shades on my window to sway in the breeze. The shades are only swaying in the sense that I see them swaying with my imperfect sight. For the same reasons, I can't say that God directly and personally provided the sunrise over the lake that I saw this morning. I can, however, say with the utmost certainty that God did give me the innate understanding of goodness that allowed a wave of warmth and satisfaction to wash over me while witnessing such a beautiful sight.

    All of this leads me to my final (Yes, final. I give you my word.) question:
    Can my concept of God be reconciled with Islam?

    Thank you all for the time that you have spent (wasted?) on my nonsensical ramblings. Regardless of where my path in life leads me, I will be forever grateful for your kindness.

    *I chose to use "God" in this post because I am talking about concepts. I think it would be disrespectful for me to use the proper name Allah.
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    Re: The First of Many Questions

    Greetings the_stranger,

    I don't mean any offence, but your post seems an example of what I was referring to earlier about philosophy, where it can lead to much confusion and strange belief, to the extent that people have used it to negate their own existence. Some parts of your post seem to come close to this, when the world is almost likened to being merely a mirage or delusion. This is, amongst other things, not being able to see the forest for the trees. We know that we do exist, and so does the world around us. We know that this is more than just a series of coincidences, because coincidence cannot produce something so great and complex as life. And from the logic and intellect that God gave us, it makes no sense that God would create a world that we cannot understand. It is He who created our sight and hearing. It is He who created signs within ourselves and around us so that His existence can be recognised by all human beings. If indeed He has the attributes of absolute perfection, of justice and mercy, as you agree, then a Just and Merciful God does not leave His creation in doubt and confusion without any guidance. A Just and Merciful God would not test us in a way that is beyond our ability to comprehend. A Just and Merciful God would instead make the path to salvation plain and clear for everyone to understand. And from His kindness He has made many ways that we might learn the truth. Within our own selves He has made a natural disposition to worship God alone, that is more than just an innate understanding of good. From His grace He has sent many Messengers and Books to guide His creation and teach them the right way.

    I think the following quote may help in addressing some of the issues you raised:


    Allah, the Most Great and Most Glorious, has described Himself in His revealed books and through His prophets in order that man may have a better understanding of just Who He is. Since the human mind is limited in its knowledge and scope, it is impossible for it to understand something which has no limits. Therefore, Allah mercifully took it upon Himself to reveal to man some of His attributes, in order that mankind may not confuse the attributes of created things with those of Allah...

    Among Allah's countless attributes is... that of al-'Uloo, which in English means highness or transcendence. When it is used to describe Allah, this attribute refers to the fact that Allah is above and beyond His creation. He is neither enclosed by the creation nor is any part of the creation above Him in any way. He is not a part of the created world nor is it a part of Him. In fact, His Being is totally distinct and separate from His creation. He is the Creator and the universe and its contents are all a part of His creation. However, His attributes function without restriction in His creation. He sees, hears and knows all, and He is the prime cause of all that happens within the worlds of creation. Nothing happens without His will. Consequently, it may be said that the Islamic concept of Allah in relationship to His creation is essentially dualistic, but in relationship to Allah alone or creation alone it is strictly unitarian. It is dualistic in the sense that Allah is Allah, and creation is creation. Two separate entities, the Creator and the created, the Infinite and the finite. Neither is one the other nor are they both one. At the same time the Islamic concept is uncompromisingly unitarian in the sense that Allah is absolutely one, without parents, offspring or partner. He is unique in His divinity and nothing is similar to Him. He is the sole source of power in the universe and everything depends on Him. Likewise, it is firmly unitarian vis-a-vis creation, because all of the universe and its contents were created by Allah alone. All created beings and entities are the product of the same Creator, and, as such, are constructed from the same elemental substances, the building blocks of 'nature'.


    The Fundamentals of Tawhid, Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips, pp. 133-134


    And Allaah knows best.
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    the_stranger's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: The First of Many Questions

    format_quote Originally Posted by Muhammad View Post
    Among Allah's countless attributes is... that of al-'Uloo, which in English means highness or transcendence. When it is used to describe Allah, this attribute refers to the fact that Allah is above and beyond His creation. He is neither enclosed by the creation nor is any part of the creation above Him in any way. He is not a part of the created world nor is it a part of Him. In fact, His Being is totally distinct and separate from His creation.
    Thank you for sharing this with me, Muhammad!

    It may sound trite, but I honestly feel like a weight has been lifted off of my chest. I have been looking for a reliable and respectable scholar to express this idea, and here it is. And it's an added bonus that the author of these words is a westerner who converted to Islam in his mid/late twenties.

    Looks like I better learn how to pray properly, because Shahada is in my future .
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    Re: The First of Many Questions

    Greetings the_stranger,


    Just wanted to share the following excellent talk by Mufti Ismail Menk with you.
    Its called 'Searching for Your Creator', and I hope that you will find it to be beneficial to you, God willingly.

    (The lecture begins with a short recitation from the Quran; the rest is in english.
    If you need clarity on any of the arabic terms used, please do not hesitate to ask us)







    (If you would like to download the talks and listen to them, here are the links:

    http://islamic-creed.com/Mufti Ismai...eator 1of2.mp3

    http://islamic-creed.com/Mufti Ismai...eator 2of2.mp3


    The following 2 videos entitled, 'Who is Allah', describes our Creator, using His own words in the Quraan.
    (I really love these 2 vids - in fact, I have it downloaded on my phone and I listen to it quite frequently. It really is very beautiful!)












    Looks like I better learn how to pray properly, because Shahada is in my future
    In shaa Allah! (God willingly)

    "Allah guides to His Light whom He wills....." (Surah An Nur: Al Quran)

    Truly, this religion has given us the very purpose for living.....

    May Allah (subhanawataála) open His doors of guidance to you. Ameen.


    God bless
    The First of Many Questions




    يَا مُقَلِّبَ الْقُلُوبِ ثَبِّتْ قَلْبِى عَلَى دِينِكَ

    Ya Muqallib al-Quloob, Thabbit Qalbi Ala Deenik
    "Oh Turner of Hearts, keep my heart firm on Your Deen."



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    Re: The First of Many Questions

    Greetings the_stranger,

    I am happy to hear that you are willing to accept Islam, and all praise is for Allaah Who guides whom He wills.

    Looking at what you wrote earlier and the part that you quoted from the book I mentioned, I am not sure if you have arrived at the correct understanding. I would suggest that you learn as much as you can about the teachings of Islam with respect to Allaah, especially regarding His Names and Attributes. Whilst doing so, be receptive and open to guidance from God, and do not judge according to what you might personally believe from before. The Qur'an teaches us a great deal about Allaah, so that would be a good place to start. At the end of the day, we cannot fully comprehend our Creator and we accept whatever He has told us about Himself. We know that He is completely unlike His creation and nothing is comparable to Him. Like those righteous people mentioned in verse 3:7, we have firm conviction and say, "We believe in it; all of it is from our Lord.''

    May Allaah the Most Great guide us to the correct understanding of His religion, Aameen.
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    Re: The First of Many Questions

    Thank you, ~Zaria~. Those are very nice.

    Yes, Muhammad, I do need to learn as much as I can about Allah and His Names and Attributes. But rest assured, I would not claim to accept Islam if I were not sincere. Even I know that I cannot hide anything from Allah. I think it is likely that I did not express my confusion about transcendence clearly enough. May I ask if you grew up in the West, Muhammad? Sometimes it is difficult for those who aren't from the West, especially America, to understand the twisted skepticism and individualism that is drilled into our minds at a young age. It is like having concrete walls erected around ones soul, keeping one from seeing the truth. Western civilization doesn't want people; it wants robots.

    A Muslim friend of mine, who has become a sort of mentor to me, explained that to his ears all of my pseudo-philosophical arguments sounded like a bunch of childish excuses. To loosely paraphrase what he said: "you have been blessed with a strong intellect, but Shaytan is filling your head with doubt to confuse you and keep you from the truth. Allah is calling you to His path, so why are you trying to argue with Him?"

    I think he is right. I think that I have been running away from the truth. It's like I built a maze of words for myself to get trapped in, so that I would always have an excuse to avoid what I know in my soul to be correct.
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    Re: The First of Many Questions

    Peace to you the_stranger.

    What you describe about your 'grapple' is the effect of secularism on the minds of people. The mis information about islam and to promotion of heretic thinking and hedonistic lifestyle really puts religion behind 'shrouds' and they feel real threat against islam. At least you believe in God. Now find him. Read the books about the 25 prophets.
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  22. #18
    MustafaMc's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: The First of Many Questions

    May Allah (swt) guide those to the Straight Way who are sincere in their quest for guidance. The_stranger, your posts are quite interesting and I wanted to share my thoughts. I can understand your point about our flawed perceptions of reality as exemplified by two people - one that is color blind and the other with normal sight. It goes without saying that these two people can look at the same thing and yet perceive it differently. Perhaps this can be an analogy for how we each individually come to some understanding of God that is flavored by our own previous life experiences that includes the faith of our parents.

    The Qur'an refers to this life as a passing illusion that I understand in the sense that as compared to eternity our existence on earth is so minute as to be, for all practical purposes, non-existent. Eternity (e.g. time) can be equated with infinity (e.g. distance). I understand that any real number, regardless of how large, divided by infinity is practically zero, so also any amount of time divided by eternity. An ayat of the Qur'an comes to mind, {Know that the life of the world is only play, and idle talk, and pageantry, and boasting among you, and rivalry in respect of wealth and children; as the likeness of vegetation after rain, whereof the growth is pleasing to the husbandman, but afterward it drieth up and thou seest it turning yellow, then it becometh straw. And in the Hereafter there is grievous punishment, and (also) forgiveness from Allah and His good pleasure, whereas the life of the world is but matter of illusion.} Even though this worldly life is a brief moment in time, it is yet infinitely important to us individually. If we have a soul, as you state, then our eternal state is our true reality. The path we walk and the decisions we make in this life affect our eternal destination within the confines of what has been decreed for us by Allah (swt). This does not mean we should sit back and rely upon Allah's decree as He has made easy for us to walk along the path chosen for us. In the end we are all at the mercy of Allah (swt), but believers put their hope and trust in Him above all else including their performance of our prescribed Islamic acts of worship. I say this in the sense that no Muslim believes he can ever be assured that he is among the people of Paradise or not strictly on his deeds for the intention behind the deed determines its merit and no Muslim knows the state of his faith upon his death. We pray for Allah's (swt) forgiveness and hope in His mercy.

    We each have our individual baggage of what we believe about God and the unseen world, but we are best in realizing that our understanding is limited and flawed as you have stated. What I am left with is deciding to hold onto the Qur'an as my standard for what to believe and to accept the example of Muhammad (saaws) for how to live my life.
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    Re: The First of Many Questions

    I understand what you mean about scepticism in the West. I think your friend is right, and I think you have all the answers you need inside of you. Now you just need to follow what you know is the truth.
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    Re: The First of Many Questions

    format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc View Post
    Even though this worldly life is a brief moment in time, it is yet infinitely important to us individually. If we have a soul, as you state, then our eternal state is our true reality.
    Well said, MustafaMc. Thank you.


    format_quote Originally Posted by Muhammad View Post
    Now you just need to follow what you know is the truth.
    Very true, indeed.

    I actually have another question, even though I said I wouldn't ask any more .

    Is this accurate?

    "What is requried from you for the time being is to say in the beginning of the prayer and between each movement between positions "Allaahu ak-bar" (a glorification of Allaah). While standing, bowing, prostrating, and sitting, you should say "subhaan allaah wal-hamdu lillaah wa-laa ilaaha illallaahu wallaahu akbar." (Glory be to Allaah, and praise and thanks be to Allaah, and there is no god but Allaah, and Allaah is the most Exalted and Great.) Then conclude the prayer by turning your head to the right then left, each time saying "as-salaamu alaikum."
    This way of performing salaat is permissible for you until you can learn and memorize what should be said in each movement and position of the salaat."

    I came across this on-line, but I have no way of discerning whether or not it is legitimate.
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