I am devoutly Christian.
my mother was catholic and converted into a Jehovah's witness some years ago, while my father remains an unbeliever.
Now, wishing to understand the conflicts between christianity and Islam, and the differences in faith I have recently begun to read the Qur'an.
This is my question, and I sincerely hope I will get the answer I am looking for:
"Is there in fact any knowledge given through the Qur'an that is impossible to say came from a human but instead MUST have come from a divine source?"
so far as I've read, it appears to be a book of guidelines, but provides no actual knowledge that a true believer could not already distinguish through common sense.
So I repeat:
"Is there proof a human did not write this book it it's pages?"
The Quran is like a friend, it doesn't reveal its secrets all in one setting and must be read and understood against an historical and linguistic background amongst many other things.
I can tell you that the language of the Quran alone couldn't have come from a human source, aside from that the deeper you go into it and listening to its recitations you'll come across many aspects that can only be a divine revelation and other aspects which haven't yet come to pass!
BUt have you read the Qur'an in it's original language? If so, is the grammatical structure unique, or is it comparable to other languages?
and
what is an example of a recitation I could come across that could only have a "divine source"? / because that would be very close to answering my question.
however. "In it's pages is there knowledge that a human could not have even possibly thought up?" because this is something I would take much interest in.
The Mormons, which are a Christian sect actually have a Book which revealed proof that God acted as He had acted, which can be scientifically proven.
BUt have you read the Qur'an in it's original language? If so, is the grammatical structure unique, or is it comparable to other languages?
Yes I am a native Arabic speaker. No language is like any other language otherwise it would be called by its name. However, the language of the Quran itself although in Arabic doesn't read like any Arabic literature or anything any human could come up with and that was the challenge of the Quran from then until now!
format_quote Originally Posted by Gordon
what is an example of a recitation I could come across that could only have a "divine source"? / because that would be very close to answering my question.
All the recitations are a divine source, you may listen to any of them but it is best to study ahead of time.. here's one sura if you're interested:
format_quote Originally Posted by Gordon
however. "In it's pages is there knowledge that a human could not have even possibly thought up?" because this is something I would take much interest in.
I mention mormonism because in their Book, they provide physical, acknowledgable proof that God had revealed information to people, because it was impossibel for a man to see what had been provided in the book.
There is a similar reference in the Jewish scriptures that clearly states, that God gave his prophet a vision, and he was shown that the world appeared to be a circle. which ios scientifically accurate.
From what I have read in the Qur'an, and what you have just provided for me, I have not read anything which indicates a human could not have provided the scriptures by their own words. As a child a often created new languages and letters to write them down and it was a game for me I often played.
but I apologize that I must repeat: (perhaps I wasn't specific enough) "Can anyone give me an example of knowledge that was given through the Qur'an which is Impossible to have come from a human."
{such as the world being round like the prophet had been shown. Or that the earth had undergone cataclysmic changes like the Mormons revealed.}
"I strongly believe that everything that I have read so far, including what you posted, could have easily been written by people. Whether I agreed with and believed what it said or not. {in truth I disagreed with very little}. But everything I read, I truly believe I easily could have written myself if I thought I would be doing God any favors to be writing it. They aren't very profound revelations that prove they are divine. I would like to see an example of Proof that it must be divinely provided. sadly I don't expect there to be any such example in the Qur'an...
Yes, in answer to your questions, there is proof in the Qur'an itself that no human could have wrote it. First of all, if the Book itself contains knowledge about Allah which go far beyond what a human can know, then that is another proof for its truthfulness. Secondly, it must have distinguishable signs which someone would have to see with their own eyes as a proof of its truthfulness, this could be what happened in the past, and what happens now as well as the future. Thirdly, does its statements support each other? By this I mean, does it confirm its own truthfulness?
The first thing to note is that the Holy Qur'an is a book which contains statements clearly identifying it as an address from Allah (4:163, 4:166, 9:97, 18:110, 20:4, 20:114, 21:45, 26:192, 32:2, 36:5, 39:1, 40:2, 41:2, 41:42, 42:52, 45:2, 46:2, 53:4, 56:80, 69:43, 72:23)
As for the knowledge about Allah, it has the most exquisite verses which explain the Divine attributes. No other religion has explained the perfect attributes of Allah. It explains that He never dies, never sleeps, He is the King of all kings, He does not have a son, He has never been conceived Himself, He is the First and Last, with no one and nothing before Him or after Him, He is Time itself and He is beyond comprehension. We only know Him by the opposites mentioned in His attributes, otherwise there is no way to understand His attributes.
And in short:
"There is nothing like unto Him." (42:11)
All other religions fall short of explaining Allah as the Perfect Being. You can't tell me of any other religion where God is One entirely, and that the explanation of His attributed negates any other partners to be attributed alongside Him. Islam removes all idol-worship in its teachings.
There are many statements which the Holy Qur'an has which could not have been conceived of in the time of the Arabs. But just one example suffices, the prophecy in which the Qur'an said that when the Romans had been defeated by the Persians, but after 3-9 years (Bidh'a, interpreted in Hadith traditions as such), the Romans would push back against the Persians. This future occurrence during that time seemed an unfounded statement, since the Romans were seen as too weak to ever regain their loss. But they did eventually, and it was miraculous. No one could have seen that coming. The book "Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire" by Edward Gibbons even records how the prophecy of Prophet Muhammad (saw), which was stated in the Holy Qur'an, came to pass as he had said. He could not have said this on his won, it was a strong proof for this authenticity as a Prophet of God.
But this is just one instance of his being truthful. The Qur'an has a lot of other examples, many of them would take too much time to sift through and find. But this is a very well-known one, and it was even attested to by a famous historian such as Edward Gibbons, who has testified to the extraordinary prophecy he made coming true.
As for scientific proofs from the Qur'an, one which stands out from all of the rest, is the one in which the Holy Qur'an says that Allah widens the expanse of the Heavens by His Power:
51:47 And We constructed the Heaven with Strength (Power), and indeed We surely are its Expanders.
(The translation I gave is a paraphrase of the word-for-word detailed translation from the following page: http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.j...er=51&verse=47)
The verb la musi'oon indicates the action being continuous and constantly occurring. Edward Hubble found out that the universe was expanding in the 20th century. The Qur'an was revealed in 7th century Arabia, 13 centuries earlier. No one could have conceived of this. The universe was considered fixed and the earth at its center, fixed as well.
For me, just this one instance of the Qur'ans description of the universe is enough to satisfy me that it is a Divine source. How could anyone have said that, and other statements which such as the earth's formation and other heavenly bodies from smoke (nebulas)? Furthermore, the Qur'an said the earth was round, because the moon and sun were said to float in orbits, (falak). The term falak refers to a rounded motion, like around an orb. So if you have a ball, then the sun and moon travel right around the shape of a ball. That describes the type of orbital path these heavenly bodies make around earth.
I mention mormonism because in their Book, they provide physical, acknowledgable proof that God had revealed information to people, because it was impossibel for a man to see what had been provided in the book.
Perhaps you can start a separate thread on Mormonism and elaborate on that.
format_quote Originally Posted by Gordon
There is a similar reference in the Jewish scriptures that clearly states, that God gave his prophet a vision, and he was shown that the world appeared to be a circle. which ios scientifically accurate.
If you believe in Monotheism and that the religion of Enoch, and Job and Joseph and Zachariah and Abraham is from God then you'll have no problem with visions or references - yes!
format_quote Originally Posted by Gordon
From what I have read in the Qur'an, and what you have just provided for me, I have not read anything which indicates a human could not have provided the scriptures by their own words. As a child a often created new languages and letters to write them down and it was a game for me I often played.
Can a child who is completely cut off from the world develop language? Also we're not speaking about games but a complete guidance to mankind that covers all facets of his life, politics, economics, social structure, ideology, philosophy, mathematics, laws of inheritance, supernatural eloquence, transcendence, poetry and lyricism from someone who is illiterate and whose ahadith as we have in volumes are a completely different style from the Quran.
format_quote Originally Posted by Gordon
"I strongly believe that everything that I have read so far, including what you posted, could have easily been written by people
That's a belief that you'll have to prove then.. come up with a book with all the above features I have requested and have it stand the test of time, have it be bar none to any other English literature and preach it to one or two of your friends, and preach it to rich and poor, and preach it to scientist and laymen alike and we can have this conversation again
good to know u are reading holy Quran. May God Almighty guide u to the Truth .
few info about Quran .
There is no ' version ' of holy Quran as not a single word added or removed from it. Followers of other holy books don't and can't memorize there holy book even if it's written in their mother tongue . Millions Muslims memorized the Quran so far , even kids know few chapters and recite daily from memory in 5 times prayers.
Is it possible for any human being to write a book that has more than 6 thousands verses and can be memorized even without understanding the language .
More than 10 million people living today (mostly non-Arabs) have memorized the Quran in the Arabic language on earth today.
but I apologize that I must repeat: (perhaps I wasn't specific enough)
"Can anyone give me an example of knowledge that was given through the Qur'an which is Impossible to have come from a human."
There are several.
It describes the formation of the fetus in the womb which more accurately the process than the medical way of 1st, 2nd and 3rd trimesters.
The fact the Quran also stated that every living thing is made of water, and everything in pairs ...
The barrier in the seas between the different types of water where they do not mix and many, many more. These things cannot be guessed.
You can look them up as a project whilst you read the Quran.
The scientific facts that are found in the quran are what finally made me realise that this book of verses was unable to have been created by man. Scientific facts that the modern scientist has only just discovered in the last century or so are in there. Muhammed was known to be illiterate. Also, there is only one copy of the Quran. Only one Quran exists so to speak, and it has never been rewritten or changed. There are many translations of the Quran of course, but the original in Arabic remains unchanged. Knowing that the language of the Quran is extremely profound and unrivalled is another thing that makes so many people curious as to it’s origins. --- When someone recites Quran, if you understand the words that are being recited, it is virtually impossible to not be moved by it. However people who do not understand arabic are able to be moved by it, but not in the same way. So the following brochures are what I strongly recommend if you wish to see the ‘science bit’ : A brief guide to understanding Islam by I.A Ibrahim. This contains some of the scientific ‘miracles’ that are found in the Quran, aswell as other topics. It has about 73 pages and a full bibliography at the back. You can find this at the Uk Islamic Dawah Centre. The website is islamguide (dot com). I'm not allowed to put links in until I have posted few times which is why I've written it like that.
Also, a brilliant brochure is ‘The Quran and Modern Science’ by Dr. Maurice Bucaille (French Academy of Medicine). You can also get this for FREE at U.K.I.M Dawah Centre, 401-403 Alum Rock Road, Birmingham, B8 3DT. There are many free brochures available from this centre so if you ask them to send you as many as possible they would be happy to oblige.
The history of islam has been greatly distorted these last few decades (by the media), and I found a video on Youtube of an Oxford educated Christian woman named Karen Armstrong extremely informative and interesting. She is talking at a conference in America. What she is talking about is essential for any non muslim to know, if they are interested in learning about the true history of Islam. Go to youtube and type in Karen Armstrong, and then click on the video that is entitled ‘muhammed prophet of our time’. This is a book she wrote. It isn’t just about Muhammed, she talks about a variety of different things to do with the history of islam.
Last edited by Muhammad; 12-11-2013 at 03:21 PM.
Reason: some parts removed
Indeed, apart from the Maker Who adorns this world with antique arts and fills its with delicious bounties and scatters bountifully over the face of the world together with these wonders of His art so many valuable gifts, and setting them in orderly lines spreads them out over the face of the earth, apart from this Bestower of Bounties, who else could the Qur'an of Miraculous Exposition be fitting for - the Qur'an which fills the world with this clamour of salutation and acclaim, this resounding praise and thanks, and transforms the earth into a place for the recitation of God's Names, a mosque, and place for gazing on the Divine works of art?
Whose speech could it be apart from His?
Who can claim ownership of it apart from Him?
Whose word could it be other than His?
---
Who has the ability to produce the like of it, and imitate it?
In truth, it is impossible for the Artist Who adorns this world with His arts not to speak with man, who appreciates His art.
Since He makes and knows, He surely speaks.
And since He speaks, it is surely the Qur'an which is appropriate to His speech.
How should a Lord of All Dominion Who is not indifferent to the way a flower is ordered remain indifferent to a discourse which brings all His dominion to a clamour of salutation and praise?
Would He permit it to be attributed to others and be made as nothing?
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guide you to the truth, Aameen.
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