I have been born a polytheist the very first time I realized there is more than one god that people worship throughout the world. Technically there are thousands. For my entire life I never considered nor understood monotheism especially people who say "there is only one god". How can you say there is only one god when there are people like me who have hundreds and the Hindus have millions. I could never bring myself ti disrespect the validity of another god. Those gods are worshiped and revered so saying there is only one god does not make sense to me.
Please explain to me why you Muslims worship one god despite the religions across the world having different gods. How do you even make sense of this? I have personally become weakened by the fact I am a polytheist and I am questioning after so many years of my life
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The first religious fundamental to which Allah’s Messenger (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) called to, was Tawheed (the Oneness of Allah), which is expressed by the testification, ‘La ilaha illa Allah’ (meaning, none has the right to be worshiped except Allah).
This may help:
http://sunnahonline.com/library/the-...ion-of-god-the
http://muslim-responses.com/Tawheed/Tawheed_
This is not easy to answer as if it was, there would have been no doubt in the first place. What makes even harder is the fact that Allah would not reveal Himself 'personally'.
Essentially, what is God? It is hard to imagine that, and we as humans, tend to put human characteristics unto Him in order to understand. It cannot be that god is not absolute; That He 'shares' His power with other gods or that He has no authority in areas not His. There would surely be conflict.
In short, the muslims believe that there is only one God, and His name is Allah. He is the same God that created Adam (pbuh) and all the other prophets since, ending with Muhammad saw.
During the time of Adam, He was called Allah which over subsequent generations became a generic term as opposed to His name. As subsequent generations grew in numbers, the concept of Allah became the concept of deity and with Allah remaining unseen and no instant retribution for wrong doings, people started to stray from the unseen God to create their own versions which over more generations became plenty.
So how do the muslims believe in this one God still? Because of the Quran and the examples of the prophet Muhammad (saw). Because the stories of all the prophets in the Quran shows consistencies in the preachings since Adam and how mankind has always deviated from the true teachings hence needing reminders. Because the Allah has given us the intellect to make the decision and choose our own paths with the bottom-line that you earn what you sow and hence accountable for your own actions (or inaction). Because if there was a God, He must be the ALL POWERFUL and cannot be countermanded by other gods. We really cannot be waiting for a judgment that is dependent upon the gods arguing amongst themselves to give a verdict. That does not make any sense.
Last edited by greenhill; 11-19-2014 at 03:28 AM.
Allahsays in the Holy Qur'an:
[27:59] Say, [O Muhammad], "Praise be to Allah , and peace upon His servants whom He has chosen. Is Allah better or what they associate with Him?"
[27:60] [More precisely], is He [not best] who created the heavens and the earth and sent down for you rain from the sky, causing to grow thereby gardens of joyful beauty which you could not [otherwise] have grown the trees thereof? Is there a deity with Allah ? [No], but they are a people who ascribe equals [to Him].
[27:61] Is He [not best] who made the earth a stable ground and placed within it rivers and made for it firmly set mountains and placed between the two seas a barrier? Is there a deity with Allah ? [No], but most of them do not know.
[27:62] Is He [not best] who responds to the desperate one when he calls upon Him and removes evil and makes you inheritors of the earth? Is there a deity with Allah ? Little do you remember.
[27:63] Is He [not best] who guides you through the darknesses of the land and sea and who sends the winds as good tidings before His mercy? Is there a deity with Allah ? High is Allah above whatever they associate with Him.
[27:64] Is He [not best] who begins creation and then repeats it and who provides for you from the heaven and earth? Is there a deity with Allah ? Say, "Produce your proof, if you should be truthful."
[27:65] Say, "None in the heavens and earth knows the unseen except Allah , and they do not perceive when they will be resurrected."
[27:66] Rather, their knowledge is arrested concerning the Hereafter. Rather, they are in doubt about it. Rather, they are, concerning it, blind.
Really depends on the person but not all polytheist assert that a multitude of gods have personalities besides one. Many will say they all have one will even so it seems unnecessary to me. If you have a multitude of gods with one desire then why not assert one god with one desire. I guess this is how polytheists like myself have tried rationalizing it.format_quote Originally Posted by greenhill
This is not easy to answer as if it was, there would have been no doubt in the first place. What makes even harder is the fact that Allah would not reveal Himself 'personally'.
Essentially, what is God? It is hard to imagine that, and we as humans, tend to put human characteristics unto Him in order to understand. It cannot be that god is not absolute; That He 'shares' His power with other gods or that He has no authority in areas not His. There would surely be conflict.
In short, the muslims believe that there is only one God, and His name is Allah. He is the same God that created Adam (pbuh) and all the other prophets since, ending with Muhammad saw.
During the time of Adam, He was called Allah which over subsequent generations became a generic term as opposed to His name. As subsequent generations grew in numbers, the concept of Allah became the concept of deity and with Allah remaining unseen and no instant retribution for wrong doings, people started to stray from the unseen God to create their own versions which over more generations became plenty.
So how do the muslims believe in this one God still? Because of the Quran and the examples of the prophet Muhammad (saw). Because the stories of all the prophets in the Quran shows consistencies in the preachings since Adam and how mankind has always deviated from the true teachings hence needing reminders. Because the Allah has given us the intellect to make the decision and choose our own paths with the bottom-line that you earn what you sow and hence accountable for your own actions (or inaction). Because if there was a God, He must be the ALL POWERFUL and cannot be countermanded by other gods. We really cannot be waiting for a judgment that is dependent upon the gods arguing amongst themselves to give a verdict. That does not make any sense.
My sister converted to Islam a year ago and keeps telling me polytheism is an inferior belief and as of now I really think I understand her.
But do you believe that other gods still exist or do you think they are made up? Not many people understand or have even heard of your god so if you say only your god exists why is he not present in other nations and lands?
There is A Verse in the Quran that gives you a very logic parable for you to think if there really could be any rivals with One and Only Supreme Being Himself or are they made up:format_quote Originally Posted by FreyasSlaveGirl
(30:28) He propounds unto you a parable drawn from your own life: Would you (agree to) have some of those whom your right hand possess (i.e. persons subjected to your authority or slaves) as (full fledged partners) in whatever We may have bestowed upon you as sustenance, so that you (and they) would have equal shares in it, and you would fear (to make use of it without consulting) them, just as you might fear (the more powerful of) yours equals? (Asad Translation)
Asad Comments: 'Your equals' i.e. 'those who are equal to you in status'. The question is ofcourse rhetorical and must be answered in the negative. But if (so the implied argument goes) a human master would not willingly accept his slaves as full fledged partners - even though master and slave are essentially equal by virtue of the humanness common to both of them (Zamakhshari) - how can man regard created beings or things equal to Him Who is absolute Lord and Master, and is beyond comparison with anything that exists or could ever exist?
So if mankind would dislike to have a partner in their wealth or property then how can we assign a partner with the One Who owns the entire universe and Who never gave us any authority to do so?
Firstly, welcome to the forum.format_quote Originally Posted by FreyasSlaveGirl
Imagine, a person has a mother who gave birth to him. Brought him up, loved him one of the greatest loves of all, provided him with everything, woke up in the middle of the night when he was ill, etc. But then this person says, how do I know that just you are my mother? You are nothing special. You are just one of many mothers I have. There are lots of women in the world and they are all my mothers, and so therefore I am going to venerate and respect them the same as I do you, they all deserve that same veneration from me. And so he tries to seek out every woman in the world, so that he can give them the same love he gives his mum, the same respect, and serves them the same.
How can that be right, correct, or fair? How would his mother feel? This would be seen as him completely losing the plot.
That's just a very rough analogy. While we do not have a parental relationship with God, He created the universe, created us, and is the only One worthy of worship. He alone is our Lord.
There is only One God. He alone should be worshipped. He is our Creator, Sustainer, and Lord.
He does not beget, nor is He begotten. He has no sons, daughters, spouses, siblings, parents, cousins, or relatives of any sort.
He is eternal and does not die. He does not depend on anyone/anything yet we all depend on Him. He is free of all want and need.
There is nothing like Him. He is all Hearing, all Seeing, all Knowing, all Powerful, Incomparable, the Creator of the Universe.
He did not/does not, become flesh, dwell in human or animal bodies, nor are there any incarnations of Him. He is not mixed up in His creation in any way.
He is not composed of persons, nor a trinity. There are no secondary, lesser, greater, equal, or multiple gods, nor any intermediaries. And no denying of God's existence either.
There are no sharers, associates, persons or parts whatsoever in His exclusive Divinity. Simply, He is One, in every sense.
There are other people/objects which people falsely believe to be God. For example Jesus (peace be upon him). Yes, he existed. He was a human messenger sent by God to guide the children of Isra'il. But some have taken him to be God. There are many things/people that people falsely worship. But there is only One True God, the Creator of the Universe and Who created us, the only One worthy of worship and the only true God and Lord. He is not only "our" God, but everybody's God, whether they believe in Him or not or whether they acknowledge Him or not. Doesn't change the fact that He created us all. He does not dwell in certain lands. He is above the heavens, and is All Seeing, All Knowing, All Hearing, All Powerful.But do you believe that other gods still exist or do you think they are made up? Not many people understand or have even heard of your god so if you say only your god exists why is he not present in other nations and lands?
Peace.
Greetings,
Of course I don't believe other gods exist. It is the first 'commandment' of faith - 'There IS NO OTHER GOD BUT ALLAH...' hence I suppose, by default then that humans created other gods.format_quote Originally Posted by FreyasSlaveGirl
How can I answer this? I know people are aware of the Muslim God, only that they may be largely misinformed or not really interested to find out. (Mostly as a result of the negative media coverage). This statement also begs a 'reflection' to the first quote about why god is made up. Due to the misinformation, uncertainty, lack of knowledge on the subject etc which prompted many people in the past to 'create' their own versions of god. These 'created' deities were then 'protected' by the culture to prevent the practice from being abandoned for the 'truth' or measures taken by whichever religious clerics to prevent their followers from searching elsewhere..format_quote Originally Posted by FreyasSlaveGirl
If islam is acknowledged to be the fastest growing religion in the world today and over 1/5 of the people are muslims, it would then appear that it will be present in other lands and nations before too long. Only, will the people realise it when the calling arrives at their doorstep. Your sister has accepted the calling..... I hope you too will see the 'light'
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Well what you said makes more sense than any of my conclusions and I have hence forth given up polytheism. My issue is that your conclusions are based on your religion and not from logic. I am not saying you are not logical or anything. As a pagan my religion is as loose as possible and lacks scripture.format_quote Originally Posted by greenhillGreetings,
Of course I don't believe other gods exist. It is the first 'commandment' of faith - 'There IS NO OTHER GOD BUT ALLAH...' hence I suppose, by default then that humans created other gods.
How can I answer this? I know people are aware of the Muslim God, only that they may be largely misinformed or not really interested to find out. (Mostly as a result of the negative media coverage). This statement also begs a 'reflection' to the first quote about why god is made up. Due to the misinformation, uncertainty, lack of knowledge on the subject etc which prompted many people in the past to 'create' their own versions of god. These 'created' deities were then 'protected' by the culture to prevent the practice from being abandoned for the 'truth' or measures taken by whichever religious clerics to prevent their followers from searching elsewhere..
If islam is acknowledged to be the fastest growing religion in the world today and over 1/5 of the people are muslims, it would then appear that it will be present in other lands and nations before too long. Only, will the people realise it when the calling arrives at their doorstep. Your sister has accepted the calling..... I hope you too will see the 'light'
How can you know people are aware of the Muslim god? I was never aware of this and was exposed to Islam moderately as a kid and always though Muslims were polytheists. I assumed everybody was polytheist.
Also, why would you want me to be a Muslim so badly? Why do you convert people to begin with? This is why I remained a polytheist for so long because it seems pointless to infringe on other people's culture. As a pagan my religion is my culture and saying you want me to be a Muslim is saying you want me to be Arab. My own sister is European and she prays in Arabic which is just weird.
It is not what I want or do not want. I am only 'hoping' that the reason for islam can be understood. There is no compulsion in religion and it is entirely up to the individual to decide. Islam is not a culture but more a 'way of life' that gives guidance how to interact in society in the cause of Allah.format_quote Originally Posted by FreyasSlaveGirl
No, I am not an Arab, and I will never be an Arab, I don't look like an Arab neither do I speak or behave like an Arab. I am a muslim. If I stayed in England, behave like the English, speak their lingo, I will never be English. But the reason for reciting our prayers in Arabic has its roots in the protection of the message. Take the Bible for example, it was originally delivered in Aramaic. It was translated into Greek, and other languages, and the Aramaic version was lost (over time) and the English versions that we have was a translation of a translation. Subsequent updates has lead to the true meaning being diluted if not changed altogether. How can we verify the true message if the original one in Aramaic no longer exist?format_quote Originally Posted by FreyasSlaveGirl
The Quran has remained in its original language until today. If anyone is dubious with regards to the meaning, they may refer to the original text. I'll give an example here. When it was discovered that the world was not created in 6 days (and the 7th was a day of rest), they researched the Holy Books to find out what was said. Of course the other Books said 6 days but the Quran, upon detailed research found that the word 'day' also meant 'period', hence, the world was created in 6 periods. This translation would not have existed if the Quran had already changed to the various languages of the world and the original text abandoned and forgotten.
You have answered your own question here, although you were exposed to it, you misunderstood and assumed something different. No real difference to what is largely going around.format_quote Originally Posted by FreyasSlaveGirl
Another tough one!format_quote Originally Posted by FreyasSlaveGirl
Religion, not logic? Or is it the other way round? Or is it both together? I really have difficulties in differentiating this one. It is also faith and belief. Coupled with obvious truths scattered all over the Quran, (scientifically proven only in recent times with the advent of computers and technology what was totally unknown back when it was conveyed), really makes me consider the authenticity of the 'true message', not the deviant interpretations of it. To know, we have to study, use our intellect and reasoning. I find it wonderful to know that my fate is in my hands and the guideline is clear, bottom line is, 'live this world but prepare for the hereafter' or 'live this world to prepare for the hereafter'. To remember at all times that the hereafter is our permanent abode.
Going to add my 2 cents in:
Also think of this issue psychologically. You believe in multiple gods because it is how you were raised. It is not unlike a habit. For me personally: I was raised a Christian. But then I left the religion and tried Paganism for a while. I did not like it because you had to worship so many gods and goddesses. It was confusing, overwhelming, and didn't make sense in the end. And I never felt a connection within it. So when I converted to Islam, it felt normal for me to go back to Allah (SWT) because I was raised to worship him in the first place. (We all are born to worship him, but anyways).
Last edited by Insaanah; 11-22-2014 at 07:51 PM. Reason: Edited first and last sentences as may have caused confusion
hi FSG,format_quote Originally Posted by FreyasSlaveGirl
there really isn't a "Muslim God", there is just the One Creator. everything else, including any innovations in Islam, is man made. period. Allah is above the heavens and the earth. His knows everything that happens everywhere, the is nothing that He is not aware of. Iblis/Shaytan/Satan is a condemned jinn. he was granted freedom, as we all have freedom, to turn mankind away from The One True God, Allah.
the absence of the knowledge of Allah is the work of jinn and mankind. we are free to disobey and worship other gods. that freedom is a gift. to freely worship and obey The One True God is like a very, very, special gift. the best gift that you could ever get. understanding the Oneness of Allah, as Insanah pointed out in Suaratul Ikhlas, is an amazing gift! ALL LOGIC FLOWS FROM THAT!
as Muslims, we are not that great at explaining Islam. The Qur'an does a pretty good job, though. when you hear or see Muslims "wanting you to be a Muslim so bad", it is because they want to share that greatest of gifts with you! it is done out of LOVE!
as far as logic, let me share 2 verses from the very first surah in the Qur'an:
Alhamdulillahi Rabbil Alamin.
that's 3 Arabic words. just 3!
let me explain them to you:
Alhamdulillahi is another way of saying "lillah al hamd." those are the 3 words constituting alhamdulillah. they mean: all true and heartfelt thanks (al hamd) is for Allah (lillah). we further break down Allah as al ilah. aa "ilah" is something you worship or believe is worthy of worship. it is like little g god. when you put the "al" in front of it, it becomes THE ONLY ONE WORTHY OF ALL WORSHIP. that is Allah
Rabb of Rabbil is many, many things. it means Creator, Provider, Sustainer, Cherisher and Healer and much more!
Alamin, based on most translations means all that has been created.
put it all together an Alhamdulillahi Rabbil Alamin means: All True and Heartfelt Thanks is for The Only One worthy of Worship, Who is the Creator, Provider, Sustainer, Cherisher and Healer of All that has been Created! That is also why we still use Arabic.
the other verse is:
Iyyaka na'budu wa Iyyaka nesta'een.
that's 5 words .one is wa, that is a conjunction. 2 of the words, Iyyaka, are the same. Iyyaka means You, referring to Allah, in this case.
to translate: in Allah, Alone we worship, and in Allah,Alone we seek guidance! by the way, THAT is Islam!
those 2 verses explain what Islam is and Who Allah is.
do you see the logic in that?
i hope this explains a few things for you.
with peace
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Salaam
Religion isn't and shouldn't be about culture. If it was, then no one would really believe in their religion. "Oh, I'm hindu because I'm indian" or whatever. There is one God who created the universe and everything in it. He is all powerful. He created all humans as well. Since He created all humans, He is a God for everyone. Not just one race or culture. There is no 'Muslim God'. There is just one God.
Last edited by Insaanah; 11-24-2014 at 07:19 PM. Reason: Removed last part as wasn't sure if that is stated in any Islamic text.
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But is Islam not heavily rooted in Arab culture?format_quote Originally Posted by SofiaMonroeSalaam
Religion isn't and shouldn't be about culture. If it was, then no one would really believe in their religion. "Oh, I'm hindu because I'm indian" or whatever. There is one God who created the universe and everything in it. He is all powerful. He created all humans as well. Since He created all humans, He is a God for everyone. Not just one race or culture. There is no 'Muslim God'. There is just one God.
I am not saying that one should believe in something because it is in their culture. I am very supportive of multiculturalism and being biracial and having an European and Asian background, I am proud of this.
But religions on the other hand are just cultural elements apart of our culture and we should flourish with them and understand others. I have my own personal library in my home and it is filled with books. In it I have tons of religious texts and books on linguistics and languages.
I obviously adapt and mix what I like
Islam is represented by Quran and authentic sayings of prophet.Allah in ch 2 v 83 says speak nicely to people, so u ddon't need culture for that!!! Allah commands us to be good to parents in ch 17 v 23-24, you don't need culture for that.in short islam is a way of life by which we strive to please Allah.means whatever I m doing I should keep in mind whether it plz or displz Allah.yes we muslims can jell up in any community but keeping commandments of Allah in priority.like I live in india during ramadan we muslims have to be in the company of non muslims who eat but we can't move away from them during our office hrs like in my case its hospital.so a muslim taking care of shariah can adjust in any situation.
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Peace to you freya,
I would disagree with the statement that Islam is rooted in Arab culture. It subsequently developed into their culture. Their culture before Islam was very different.
You are asserting that culture is static and ceases in change. Islam as far as I see it is just a change in Arabic culture.format_quote Originally Posted by greenhill
I should not pray in Arabic or conform to a culturalized standard of religion to say "I understand god." If peoples gods claims universal power then surely it is lacking. The same goes for an Arab/Islamic god that requests worship in Arabic and does not surpass the Arab world. When I lived in Indonesia I would see people praying in Arabic yet they are in Southeast Asia. They had a culture before that and it was a fine one.
So this whole concept of Islamic monotheism seems to me to be Arab monotheism and an Arab innovation. It is a fine innovation but it is still centered towards the Arabs and the Arabs alone. The Shiya are Persians mostly and the Persian/Arab split in Islam is obvious considering that the Shiya just fuzed Zorrostrianism with Islam to accelerate people as gods.
When I see my little sister praying to God in Arabic it is just as odd as can be considering that she is not an Arab in the slightest bit. She is a Nordd and she be proud of it. Understanding a culture is one thing but assimilating it thinking it is sacred seems strange
Last edited by Insaanah; 11-30-2014 at 08:41 PM. Reason: edited out the most offensive parts
Freja, you said Islam is rooted in Arab culture, which I'm afraid is a wrong understanding. The last Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), was an Arab, but not all were. Islam is not linked to a specific culture. I'll approach the prayers in Arabic issue afterwards. Islam is not a new innovation, but quite the contrary - it was what has always been, the original and true and natural religion and way of life, ordained for man by God.
Allah has sent a succession of prophets to people throughout the ages, to convey His message to them, and with guidance to show people how He wants them to live and worship Him. Muslims believe in all the prophets Allah sent, and do not reject or blaspheme any of them, from Adam, to the last and final prophet, Muhammad, peace be on them all. They were the purest and noblest of humanity and were not divine in any way. Allah sent all the prophets with the same message and not different messages. All the prophets and messengers sent by God to humans to convey His message, conveyed the same message since the beginnig of time, regardless of when and which people they were sent to. The message was: to submit wholeheartedly to Allah and worship Him and Him alone, without any associates in, or parts to, His Exclusive Divinity, and to obey the prophet. They taught that people should be under no misperception that they can commit themselves to Allah as their Lord, and then combine this with accepting others as their Lord, or associating others in His Divinity, in whatever way. They taught that we should strive hard to translate our belief in the One True God into practice, by obeying Allah and the messengers He sent, who were also role models and examples for us, showing us practically how to put the guidance they were sent with into practice in our daily lives, explaining the scriptures, warning against wrong-doing, giving good tidings, and giving additional legislation from Allah.
So Islam is not a new faith, but is the same ultimate universal truth that God revealed to all the prophets, including Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus (peace be on them), and the same thing they all taught. Thus Islam is not named after a specific person (like Christianity, Buddhism), nor after a certain race or place (like Judaism, Hinduism), but is named by God Himself, the meaning loosely translating as 'submission to God', which is what every Prophet and their righteous followers did, from amongst all times, places and peoples. That in itself is one fraction of the evidence that it was the way of all the Prophets from the beginning.
With time, the message got forgotten or corrupted. So people started worshipping other gods along with Him, made idols, said that God begot a son, said that certain people were incarnations of God, some rejected belief in God altogether, while others elevated the status of some prophets to divine, or at the other end, rejected or blasphemed some of the prophets. Whenever God's message got distorted by people, or forgotten, a new messenger was sent, not with any new or changed message, but reinforcing the actual message that God sent all the messengers with, the actual core beliefs that people were taught from the beginning of humanity, confirming the true parts of previous teachings and scriptures, and correcting wrong beliefs and misconceptions that had crept in. God required that whenever He sent a new messenger, that messenger should be followed along with any new scripture given to him. This chain of messengers culminates in prophet Muhammad (peace on him), who is the last and final prophet and messenger. Since his prophethood, God's message is available unchanged and unadulterated, for the entire world, until the end of time. He wasn't sent as prophet and messenger for a specific group of people and specific time (e.g. as Moses and Jesus were to the Children of Israel), but he was sent for all the world, for all time, until the Day of Judgement. Thus he is the last, not first, prophet of Islam; a messenger to all mankind, for now, and for all time to come. He is the messenger who must now be followed.
When Jesus (peace be upon him) was sent to the Children of Israel, the language of the scripture that God gave to him, and worship, was most likey in Aramaic. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was the last and final messenger sent for all mankind. He was born in Arabia, at a time when the Arabs were submerged in polytheistic culture, and badly needed reforming, and that place was therefore the hub from which Islam spread. Allah laid out the rules of worship, which include certain worship which must be in Arabic, and certain that can be in your own language. This is not because the culture is important, but because that was the language that Prophet Muhammads first followers spoke. If they didn't understand what was being sent to them, what is the point? Imagine sending them a book or instructions in Chinese! Having one language for the Qur'an and for certain acts of worship means when we read the Quran we all, whatever country we're from, recite the same thing, word for word. Any mistakes if someone makes them, can easily be spotted. And it's such a great feeling for universal brotherhood when you know you all pray the same way and read the same words, which, incidentally, are Gods words, not the words of any human.
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This would make sense if true but what is the evidence for these claims? None of these claims have any existence in historical research. For example, Jesus has no historical existence in the Biblical sense in the slightest bit. I am curious to your conclusion on the basis of evidence and especially researchformat_quote Originally Posted by Insaanah
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