There is over 150 years of research into evolution and it has long been proven that evolution is a fact. It's backed by thousands upon thousands of scientific evidences and there is absolutely no doubt that evolution happened over hundreds of millions of years and is still happening. So from my understanding of Islam, there was no evolution. God created humans as is, despite the very fact that we evolved, in fact all life evolved so how can this be? Clearly these two are mutually exclusive, the Quran says one thing, science says another.
For example we share 98% of the dna that chimpanzees have, is this just a coincidence? 69% of our dna is shared with a rat...! A rat?! This is why we test vaccines and medication etc on rats and mice because they're so similar to us.
So my question to Muslims is, do Muslims simply refuse to accept this scientific fact or do they have a different understanding of evolution somehow? Obviously Muslims don't reject science, after all we use it everyday, you're utilising about 20 different areas of science simply reading this message. So my question is, how do you reconcile the fact that evolution is not mentioned in the Quran at all and it goes so far as to say that humans were created "as is" and did not evolve?
And yes I know science cannot yet explain how the first life developed (single cell organisms) but one step at a time.
I'm not trying to start an argument or pull anyone from religion... I just want to know your reasoning for accepting some scientific facts and rejecting others.
Atheists use evolution as a tool to argue against god
Evolution clearly doesn't rule out the existence of the supernatural. That would be a poor argument to claim that it did. What it does do is create problems for particular religious claims about "creation". If you are a deist with no solid falsifiable claims, evolution can't touch you. But if your theology says that the earth is only a few thousand years old or if your theology says that the animal species we now have are identical to those at the beginning with no new ones evolving and none going extinct, then you've got a real problem on your hands when looking at all the evidence for evolution.
God created everything, including evolution and how it works....
This is a solid impenetrable and unfalsifiable position. Evolution can't touch it. Nothing can. Of course, the more we learn through science, the less of an active and direct role is left for Gods to play.
People once believed that Gods made it rain with God magic, creating and dropping water down upon the earth. Now that we know how evaporation and condensation work and how weather patterns function, people believe that God created the materials and set up the system. As we learn how he planet formed through natural, and not supernatural processes, the claim will pull back further, to claiming that Gods created the materials that started it all and lit the spark (ie, at the big bang). Unless and until of course we actually figure the non-supernatural mechanics of how it really happened, in which case people will pull back even further and make some even more distant and hands off claim. Gods become less and less direct and perform less and less dramatic miracles the more we learn. Amazing, isn't it?
Last edited by Pygoscelis; 06-05-2016 at 07:41 PM.
What are you talking about? Black men are superior to white men in nearly every physical attribute. Generally speaking they're bigger, stronger, faster and are more suited to living in warm climates due to the melatonin in their skin so your statement could not be more wrong.
White people only came about because we travelled from the African plains to America and Europe and over time we did not need black skin any more because it was not as hot so our skin became lighter. There are of course other environmental factors at play such as dietary needs and vitamin D deficiency.
I'm going out on a limb here but, I'm pretty sure Bhabha's was NOT trying to put the white man above anyone else. He wasn't trying to put the white man on a pedestal but rather, questioning why the white man is always viewed that way from an evolutionary standpoint. Maybe he can correct me if I'm wrong.
We're still evolving, even as we speak. Ever wondered what your wisdom teeth are for? Considering they just grow sideways in 95% of people and cause nothing but pain? Thousands of years ago when we ate roots and leaves we'd use these teeth to grind them up. Now we no longer use them so they no longer grow properly, eventually our bodies will just evolve to stop growing them all together.
What about your coccyx (tailbone)? Another completely useless non functioning body part, yet it would have certainly served us well when we were swinging around in trees, like a monkey. Since we no longer swing around in trees we've no need for a tail so the coccyx is the last remanence of our tails.
The appendix? I'll let you research this one. Hint hint, get it removed and nothing about your health or ability to digest food changes.
We evolved and are still evolving, stop being so ignorant.
P.S Adding to my point that beautifully illustrates evolution. The Barbary Macaque monkey has almost no tail, why? Because it lives in mountainous regions where, who would have guessed it, there are barely any more trees for it to swing around in and thus no longer needs a tail.
We must also remember that Allah swt did not reveal everything about the world and left us with things to work out by ourselves. For example there is absolutely no mention of electromagnetism in the Quran or the Hadiths but it exists...
I haven't really spent any time on here since my last post in your other thread but, I'm going to assume you're still a Muslim based on the above, so having assumed that, in your opinion, where in the evolutionary time line does the Adam and Eve story come in? If we believe Adam and Eve were the first humans on Earth and we are the offspring, then technically we were always humans right? I only ask because you seem to be pretty firm in your belief on evolution and I personally haven't met any other Muslims who did believe in that, so I had to ask
I'm going out on a limb here but, I'm pretty sure Bhabha's was NOT trying to put the white man above anyone else. He wasn't trying to put the white man on a pedestal but rather, questioning why the white man is always viewed that way from an evolutionary standpoint. Maybe he can correct me if I'm wrong.
I haven't really spent any time on here since my last post in your other thread but, I'm going to assume you're still a Muslim based on the above, so having assumed that, in your opinion, where in the evolutionary time line does the Adam and Eve story come in? If we believe Adam and Eve were the first humans on Earth and we are the offspring, then technically we were always humans right? I only ask because you seem to be pretty firm in your belief on evolution and I personally haven't met any other Muslims who did believe in that, so I had to ask
Yes I am still Muslim
Perhaps I misunderstood Bhabha's post but I thought she meant at the "end" of the evolutionary tree is a white man, which is of course wrong.
As for evolution, I simply don't know, as many scientists will mention. I think at some point, Allah swt decided to instil consciousness into our ancestors which were not chimps, as a lot of people mistake us for. Humans are our own species and always have been. Our ancestors who swung around in trees did not have consciousness but at some point Allah granted two of them consciousness and revealed himself to them. These two people were of course Adam and Eve.
I'm not sure if it's peoples misunderstanding or mockery but some people seem to think that two monkeys suddenly gave birth to a human... This clearly is not how it was and evolution is a natural selection process which takes hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years. As I said previously humans were not the first of Allah swt's creation, there were many many species created before us. He did not give any of these animals consciousness as far as we know otherwise they would have developed intelligence and followed a similar path to us.
I believe the first two humans, Adam and Eve were given consciousness approximately 1 - 2 million years ago. From that moment on we went from the discovery of fire to the wheel to what we have today. The principle of evolution is ANY animal will naturally adapt to it's surroundings if it has enough time before going extinct. Polar bears for example will unfortunately go extinct before they have the chance to evolve to survive a warmer climate. If climate change was MUCH slower though, they'd eventually shed some of their fur, move onto land and become like grizzly bears or black bears but they'll most likely die due to starvation and lack of ice caps before they can evolve.
Last edited by EgyptPrincess; 06-05-2016 at 09:07 PM.
Death is how evolution works. The polar bears will die, except maybe for a select few that are born with mutations making them more suitable to the new environment. Then those few will breed and form the next generation and keep on doing that and they woukd become a new species. But it isn't like they would still the same bears alive today :-)
Death is how evolution works. The polar bears will die, except maybe for a select few that are born with mutations making them more suitable to the new environment. Then those few will breed and form the next generation and keep on doing that and they woukd become a new species. But it isn't like they would still the same bears alive today :-)
They will almost certainly go extinct in my opinion. There just isn't enough time for them to evolve adequately and global warming is too rapid.
As a Muslim, I don't believe in evolution. When it comes to whether humans ever evolved from another species - that is a complete no full stop.
Do I believe in adaptation within a species? Yes I do. Allah swt created the Prophet Adam (as) from clay, maybe there were human-like creatures on earth before hand, that has not been disclosed to us, but the Prophet Adam (as) did not evolve from anything, he was made directly from clay and then sent to this earth for the first time. So there was no evolution.
However, ahadith do point to the fact that, the ancient prophets, and hence humans, did look different to us. The Prophets Adam, Nuh, and Ibrahim (pbut) all looked different physically to a person now. So I believe in adaptation within a species over time.
As for the process of humans evolving from one species to another, I can't say about other animals, but I'm pretty much sceptical of this 'theory'. I think a problem is that when Muslims reject evolution, they are considered to be rejecting scientific research. That is not the case, we believe in science as a way to understand the world and bring benefit to mankind, but this is guided by the Qur'an and it overrides any theory when there is a contradiction.
What are you talking about? Black men are superior to white men in nearly every physical attribute. Generally speaking they're bigger, stronger, faster and are more suited to living in warm climates due to the melatonin in their skin so your statement could not be more wrong.
White people only came about because we travelled from the African plains to America and Europe and over time we did not need black skin any more because it was not as hot so our skin became lighter. There are of course other environmental factors at play such as dietary needs and vitamin D deficiency.
We're still evolving, even as we speak. Ever wondered what your wisdom teeth are for? Considering they just grow sideways in 95% of people and cause nothing but pain? Thousands of years ago when we ate roots and leaves we'd use these teeth to grind them up. Now we no longer use them so they no longer grow properly, eventually our bodies will just evolve to stop growing them all together.
What about your coccyx (tailbone)? Another completely useless non functioning body part, yet it would have certainly served us well when we were swinging around in trees, like a monkey. Since we no longer swing around in trees we've no need for a tail so the coccyx is the last remanence of our tails.
The appendix? I'll let you research this one. Hint hint, get it removed and nothing about your health or ability to digest food changes.
We evolved and are still evolving, stop being so ignorant.
P.S Adding to my point that beautifully illustrates evolution. The Barbary Macaque monkey has almost no tail, why? Because it lives in mountainous regions where, who would have guessed it, there are barely any more trees for it to swing around in and thus no longer needs a tail.
I'm talking about scientific racism that use evolution as a means to subjugate other people who didn't fit into the "white" category.
I'm going out on a limb here but, I'm pretty sure Bhabha's was NOT trying to put the white man above anyone else. He wasn't trying to put the white man on a pedestal but rather, questioning why the white man is always viewed that way from an evolutionary standpoint. Maybe he can correct me if I'm wrong.
That's correct ^___^
This comment came about when I was working on my paper and my mother was watching this video about the "evolution" of man.
As you can guess, it starts with the video of an ape, then ...... somewhere a black guy......variations of "colored" men and at the end is a white guy, blonde, light eyes and he's apparently the evolved man.
Then my mother makes a comment.
"some people are still evolving"... and I go on a rant..
yes we have appendix and stuff, that is just how Allah SWT created us - but to draw the line that we came from 'monkeys' (which is an insult and a lie) - is an assumption. A false assumption.
As a Muslim, I don't believe in evolution. When it comes to whether humans ever evolved from another species - that is a complete no full stop.
Do I believe in adaptation within a species? Yes I do. Allah swt created the Prophet Adam (as) from clay, maybe there were human-like creatures on earth before hand, that has not been disclosed to us, but the Prophet Adam (as) did not evolve from anything, he was made directly from clay and then sent to this earth for the first time. So there was no evolution.
However, ahadith do point to the fact that, the ancient prophets, and hence humans, did look different to us. The Prophets Adam, Nuh, and Ibrahim (pbut) all looked different physically to a person now. So I believe in adaptation within a species over time.
As for the process of humans evolving from one species to another, I can't say about other animals, but I'm pretty much sceptical of this 'theory'. I think a problem is that when Muslims reject evolution, they are considered to be rejecting scientific research. That is not the case, we believe in science as a way to understand the world and bring benefit to mankind, but this is guided by the Qur'an and it overrides any theory when there is a contradiction.
As a Muslim, I don't believe in evolution. When it comes to whether humans ever evolved from another species - that is a complete no full stop.
Do I believe in adaptation within a species? Yes I do. Allah swt created the Prophet Adam (as) from clay, maybe there were human-like creatures on earth before hand, that has not been disclosed to us, but the Prophet Adam (as) did not evolve from anything, he was made directly from clay and then sent to this earth for the first time. So there was no evolution.
However, ahadith do point to the fact that, the ancient prophets, and hence humans, did look different to us. The Prophets Adam, Nuh, and Ibrahim (pbut) all looked different physically to a person now. So I believe in adaptation within a species over time.
As for the process of humans evolving from one species to another, I can't say about other animals, but I'm pretty much sceptical of this 'theory'. I think a problem is that when Muslims reject evolution, they are considered to be rejecting scientific research. That is not the case, we believe in science as a way to understand the world and bring benefit to mankind, but this is guided by the Qur'an and it overrides any theory when there is a contradiction.
You realise that monkeys, fish, elephants and humans are made out of the exact same stuff right? So if we're made from clay then so is a fish and an elephant. Carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen etc so it makes no sense to say we are made from clay but monkeys are not. As for being made out of clay this is mostly true. Clay and life share many of the same elements except clay is composed of a lot of silicates. The evolutionary model fits just fine into Allah swt's creation.
Life is made from similar elements found in clay.
Allah swt created all life.
Allah swt created our ancestors.
Allah swt gave Adam and Eve consciousness.
Homo erectus (humans) begin.
There's no contradiction here. Creation doesn't need to be spontaneous, as I mentioned in the cake baking example. When I create a cake, it might take 40 minutes for the creation to appear and this creation was made from flour, eggs, sugar etc. Allah swt creates all life with similar elements and decides to instil consciousness into one of his creations. I don't really see what all the confusion is about.
format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
yes we have appendix and stuff, that is just how Allah SWT created us - but to draw the line that we came from 'monkeys' (which is an insult and a lie) - is an assumption. A false assumption.
Are you ashamed that we used to be monkeys? Does it somehow take away from Allah swt's beautiful creation? Absolutely not. For some reasons a lot of humans don't like the fact that we used to be nothing but monkeys and this makes them feel insecure and inferior somehow.
I think a problem is that when Muslims reject evolution, they are considered to be rejecting scientific research.
They are rejecting mounds and mounds of scientific research, and they feel motivated to do so based on something anti-scientific (faith). Let us not pretend that they simply looking at the evidence in an unbiased fashion and finding it lacking. If that were so there would not be the huge correlation between religious fundamentalism and anti-evolution that there so clearly is.
format_quote Originally Posted by Serenity
I don't believe in evolution (from one species to another). Allah SWT created us like He SWT wanted to create us.
Perfect example. Forget all the scientific research if God belief trumps it. After all, God is perfect and all powerful, and if science disagrees science must be wrong. God must have put those fossils there to trick us, or shaytan did, etc. Science and reason become moot when you base everything on an unfalsifiable faith belief.
yes we have appendix and stuff, that is just how Allah SWT created us - but to draw the line that we came from 'monkeys' (which is an insult and a lie) - is an assumption. A false assumption.
We didn't come from monkeys. We have a common ancestor with them. And why is that an insult? I keep seeing that in a lot of religious folks? This odd sort of human arrogance from people who claim to be so humble.
Last edited by Pygoscelis; 06-06-2016 at 02:02 PM.
You realise that monkeys, fish, elephants and humans are made out of the exact same stuff right? So if we're made from clay then so is a fish and an elephant. Carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen etc so it makes no sense to say we are made from clay but monkeys are not. As for being made out of clay this is mostly true. Clay and life share many of the same elements except clay is composed of a lot of silicates. The evolutionary model fits just fine into Allah swt's creation.
Life is made from similar elements found in clay.
Allah swt created all life.
Allah swt created our ancestors.
Allah swt gave Adam and Eve consciousness.
Homo erectus (humans) begin.
There's no contradiction here. Creation doesn't need to be spontaneous, as I mentioned in the cake baking example. When I create a cake, it might take 40 minutes for the creation to appear and this creation was made from flour, eggs, sugar etc. Allah swt creates all life with similar elements and decides to instil consciousness into one of his creations. I don't really see what all the confusion is about.
Hmmmm, Allah swt knows best sis. From my understanding of the Qur'an, the creation of Adam and Eve was spontaneous - Allah swt fashioned them from clay and they were sent to his earth. Before then all accepted accounts state how they were in Jannah immediately following creation.
I agree, we are all from a common source. We share the same elements as monkeys, ants, bananas, trees and rocks. That is because we were created by the same Lord, is doesn't necessarily mean we evolved from one thing to the other just because we are similar. A good percentage of our DNA is shared with a banana, it doesn't mean we evolved from a banana though. It just means we have a common source from which we came and to which we'll return. Humans are searching for the purpose of life and the reason for their existence, but it doesn't mean we have to grasp at the idea we came from monkeys just because we are very similar.
Indeed, monkeys are created from clay, we are created by the same Lord, just we were created separately.
As I've said, I do not believe in evolution - it is not something there is confusion about. I believe in adaption within a species, but not the transformation of one species to another, at least that certainly wasn't the case with mankind.
The thing that amazes me is if more Muslims actually studied biology, chemistry and astronomy it would only increase their faith as it glorifies Allah swt's work even more in my opinion. They would not say god does not exist, they would say Alhamdulillah.
They are rejecting mounds and mounds of scientific research, and they feel motivated to do so based on something anti-scientific (faith).
Evolution is small branch of the vast discipline which constitutes scientific discipline. I meant that people assume Muslims reject all forms of scientific research entirely when that is far from the case.
I suppose this is where we really differ in our understandings, as you know, for Muslims faith is our priority. And in all honesty is faith really anti-scientific? I see a beautiful harmony between the two, I mentioned before for me science is a way to understand the creation of Allah swt, who is perfect and without fault. Humans and their theories can have faults or be inaccurate, as has been proved before. So in the very *rare* case there is a conflict between science and faith (and this conflict is exaggerated a lot) faith will take priority because it can never be wrong.
And kind of off topic here, but as I remember reading that there is no reason human-like creatures didn't exist before. Allah swt hasn't told us everything about His creation - and He knows best but it could be these fossils are from creatures who were indeed similar to humans but not an ancestor, as humans were created separately..
Ya Muqallib al-Quloob, Thabbit Qalbi Ala Deenik
Oh turner of the Hearts make my heart firm on Your Deen
Hmmmm, Allah swt knows best sis. From my understanding of the Qur'an, the creation of Adam and Eve was spontaneous - Allah swt fashioned them from clay and they were sent to his earth. Before then all accepted accounts state how they were in Jannah immediately following creation.
I agree, we are all from a common source. We share the same elements as monkeys, ants, bananas, trees and rocks. That is because we were created by the same Lord, is doesn't necessarily mean we evolved from one thing to the other just because we are similar. A good percentage of our DNA is shared with a banana, it doesn't mean we evolved from a banana though. It just means we have a common source from which we came and to which we'll return. Humans are searching for the purpose of life and the reason for their existence, but it doesn't mean we have to grasp at the idea we came from monkeys just because we are very similar.
Indeed, monkeys are created from clay, we are created by the same Lord, just we were created separately.
As I've said, I do not believe in evolution - it is not something there is confusion about. I believe in adaption within a species, but not the transformation of one species to another, at least that certainly wasn't the case with mankind.
Allahu alam
Sis can you show me where in the Quran it mentions how long Allah swt took to create Adam and Eve? Adam and Eve were taken up to Jannah when Allah swt breathed a soul (consciousness) into them right?
As far as I know there is no mention of how long Allah took to make Adam and Eve. It doesn't say instantly or 5million years. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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