interesting subject. to me, it is both a religion and an ideology.
but aside from that, there is something i really don't understand.
either in the qur'an or in a hadees, there is something like "learn - even if you go all the way to china".
one of the things i respect about islam is that learning is highly valued.
so, isn't it a good thing that people get information from a wide variety of sources and then come to their own conclusions? i don't see how any learning can be harmful.
does god want blind followers or people who never stop learning? can islam be harmed by people learning from a variety of scholars?
something to think about....
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
just happened to come across this and it made me think about this thread.
i know it's off topic, but it's a cool quote anyway:
Narrated AbudDarda':
"Kathir ibn Qays said: I was sitting with AbudDarda' in the mosque of Damascus.
A man came to him and said: AbudDarda, I have come to you from the town of the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) for a tradition that I have heard you relate from the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him). I have come for no other purpose.
He said: I heard the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) say: If anyone travels on a road in search of knowledge, Allah will cause him to travel on one of the roads of Paradise. The angels will lower their wings in their great pleasure with one who seeks knowledge, the inhabitants of the heavens and the Earth and the fish in the deep waters will ask forgiveness for the learned man. The superiority of the learned man over the devout is like that of the moon, on the night when it is full, over the rest of the stars. The learned are the heirs of the Prophets, and the Prophets leave neither dinar nor dirham, leaving only knowledge, and he who takes it takes an abundant portion."
Yes, learning is highy valued in Islam. But the statement you quoted on China happens to be falsely attributed to the Prophet pbuh. The other hadith you quoted is authentic and there are many others like it which extol the virtues of those who seek knowledge. See my userpage for some prophetic statements on knowledge,
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
so, isn't it a good thing that people get information from a wide variety of sources and then come to their own conclusions? i don't see how any learning can be harmful.
Of course, one aspect of education is exploring and familiarizing onself with divergent views and perspectives. However, at the same time, an integral part of education is being able to crtically assess the reliability, authenticity and factuality of those sources. For insance, in medical research, the conclusions of studies published in journals are generally taken into account over the opinions of Mr. Smith on the street who dropped out of school. Likewise, in Islam we learn from those with a solid understanding of the religion and the ones who have studied its sciences in detail. The famous early scholar, Muhammad Ibn Sirîn (d. 110H) said, "This matter is your religion, so be careful as to whom you take your religion from."
Peace.
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]
interesting subject. to me, it is both a religion and an ideology.
but aside from that, there is something i really don't understand.
either in the qur'an or in a hadees, there is something like "learn - even if you go all the way to china".
one of the things i respect about islam is that learning is highly valued.
so, isn't it a good thing that people get information from a wide variety of sources and then come to their own conclusions? i don't see how any learning can be harmful.
does god want blind followers or people who never stop learning? can islam be harmed by people learning from a variety of scholars?
something to think about....
That Hadith about China is weak, even though Knowledge is greatly encouraged in the Sunnah anyway
Yes, learning is highy valued in Islam. But the statement you quoted on China happens to be falsely attributed to the Prophet pbuh. The other hadith you quoted is authentic and there are many others like it which extol the virtues of those who seek knowledge. See my userpage for some prophetic statements on knowledge,
Of course, one aspect of education is exploring and familiarizing onself with divergent views and perspectives. However, at the same time, an integral part of education is being able to crtically assess the reliability, authenticity and factuality of those sources. For insance, in medical research, the conclusions of studies published in journals are generally taken into account over the opinions of Mr. Smith on the street who dropped out of school. Likewise, in Islam we learn from those with a solid understanding of the religion and the ones who have studied its sciences in detail. The famous early scholar, Muhammad Ibn Sirîn (d. 110H) said, "This matter is your religion, so be careful as to whom you take your religion from."
Peace.
hi ansar,
where does that statement about learning even if you have to go all the way to china come from?
i had some familiarity with islam before i came here, but one of the most valuable things i have gotten from this forum is the awareness of the value muslims place on learning. that is why this attitude bothers me. am i wrong that islam does not want blind followers?
who makes the decision as to which scholars are "kosher" and which ones are not? this is a little difficult to discuss because of the taboo on sectarian issues. i know a person who originally became interested in islam through what the LI Party Line would label a "deviant" source. so, didn't that have some value, even in your eyes?
i believe that a person should not let others decide for him which scholars to explore. without a wide background of knowledge, how does a person ever acquire the essential ability "to crtically assess the reliability, authenticity and factuality of those sources" - do they let someone else define them for him?
to use your medical analogy above - i want to be a heart surgeon (not really!). am i going to study under a few famous heart surgeons or am i going to learn from as many sucessful heart surgeons and books that i can and then decide for myself which ones i think have the best ideas, techniques etc.?
i understand that in islam, there is a general consensus about many things - for example, which hadees are authentic, etc. so that is not up for discussion right now.
if i want to be responsible, i am not going to let someone decide for me which
people to blindly follow and i don't think those who seek knowledge should confine themselves to the sheikhs, etc approved by this website, even though they will learn much that is valuable here, as i have (and still am!).
i know you and i will not agree on this issue.
peace
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
who makes the decision as to which scholars are "kosher" and which ones are not?
Sufficient knowledge; there are many self-proclaimed scholars of Islam in the west who possess not an atom's weight in knowledge of Usûl Al-Fiqh, Mustalah Al-Hadîth, Ulûm Al-Qur'ân, and other Islamic sciences. Evidently, such people are like the Mr. Smith on the street who tries to propagate his views on medicine, which happen to conflict with the conclusions of virtually all educated medical physcians!
to use your medical analogy above - i want to be a heart surgeon (not really!). am i going to study under a few famous heart surgeons or am i going to learn from as many sucessful heart surgeons and books that i can and then decide for myself which ones i think have the best ideas, techniques etc.?
So you have already decided that you would go to heart surgeons, those with a license and qualifications, not some guy on the street with a pair of scissors who wants to cut out your heart for surgery. Likewise, you need to look for the same education, qualifications, license when it comes to religious knowledge. For some reason when we switch from medicine to religion, all of a sudden everyone's standards drop.
Peace!
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]
Sufficient knowledge; there are many self-proclaimed scholars of Islam in the west who possess not an atom's weight in knowledge of Usûl Al-Fiqh, Mustalah Al-Hadîth, Ulûm Al-Qur'ân, and other Islamic sciences. Evidently, such people are like the Mr. Smith on the street who tries to propagate his views on medicine, which happen to conflict with the conclusions of virtually all educated medical physcians!
So you have already decided that you would go to heart surgeons, those with a license and qualifications, not some guy on the street with a pair of scissors who wants to cut out your heart for surgery. Likewise, you need to look for the same education, qualifications, license when it comes to religious knowledge. For some reason when we switch from medicine to religion, all of a sudden everyone's standards drop.
Peace!
actually, my standards don't drop when i switch from medicine to religion - i would follow the same process. and no, i would not turn to the muslim around the corner for knowledge about islam, any more than i would consult mr. smith, dropout, about heart surgery. but i notice that this site censors links to certain scholars and i just wonder why people need to be sheltered from diverse sources of knowledge. maybe i trust people to have the intelligence to take their information from various sources and come to their own conclusions - within the boundaries of islam, of course. why should they limit themselves to the sheikhs approved by one particular website?
learning is a lifelong experience, and it has increased my respect for islam to learn how very much scholarly texts there are - enough to keep a person busy for their entire lives!
there's no point in arguing - it's your forum, after all. i just wanted to have my say.
peace
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
Re: Is it good to learn about Islam from a variety of scholars?
leave it to me - i found a perfect quote on your home pages (this is an excellent assortiment of quotes):
The Prophet said: 'The cure for ignorance is to question.' (Sunan Abî Dawûd)
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
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